Sinn Féin say Irish reliance on British forces ’embarrassing’

Flanking attack by naval isn’t really viable, as ok you can sink some stuff but to land enough troops to do anything would require significant mobility which would be seen coming miles off.

It would require dozens of ships to transport the few thousand troops and equipment needed to land a decent force that could self sustain.

Outside China which country has the capability to do that, Russia no longer does and realistically why would China attack Ireland.

Russia has nothing left to create a bridgehead with. Their forces are almost fully depleted and relying on conscripts and their landing ships mainly sunk. Not to mention their airforce and helicopter force is mostly destroyed. If the Ukraine war ends they will still have a sizeable landforce but lack any enablers to attack anyone. Not to mention the war appears far from over, with massive Russian losses happening almost daily.

You are talkiing about today. Russia has now moved to a full-on wartime economy. Tomorrow may be different

When was that announced, not seen it in the news? Would be a big change, although not sure enough at this stage, their losses are too significant

Exactly. We need Ireland to help themselves. The world is changed. Putin means everyone needs to be on the team.

Unfortunately the NI NHS is profoundly buggered. But that’s because power sharing has collapsed for so long and it’s essentially been on autopilot from a leadership point of view…I’m not sure if the DUP will get back around the table and restore power sharing soon…I hope they do because it’s seriously damaging NIs present and future.

Funny that because nobody I know family or work has been polled! You would have thought something this important would go beyond a couple of hundred people! Or indeed we would have heard about it.

The Belfast Telegraph has done polling with Lucid over the years, the Irish Time has done some recently as well. Then there is the broader point of the voting patterns with the Nationalist block effectively equalling the Unionist block with the growth of the “neither” option sitting in the middle, that block as you could expect has different positions within it on the constitutional question.

As suggested I have taken my head out of the sand and I can find numerous articles and polls on the subject👍If you want to believe the Irish times and the south Belfast mp then carry on. But from January 22 up to now most of the polls have a no. No matter what you think of the NI NHS it’s done me and my family ok once you get through A&E and into the system!

No skin off my nose tbh, I really don’t want the Republic to have to deal with both sides of NI, and that’s not even counting the ones willing to commit violence. And then you get to the costs of just keeping the lights on in NI.

As for the health systems, as said NI NHS has slipped in many areas behind the HSE (have we stopped supplying cover for ambulances for NI?), but both systems are just never ending budget nightmares.

This is a defence forum and the NHS is nothing to do with it. Get back to the site

https://factcheckni.org/articles/is-there-no-growth-in-public-support-for-a-united-ireland-is-support-shrinking-instead/

So the fact check shows that different polls show different conclusions. I stand by my position. Get over it!

You did actually read the above didn’t you 😂😂

Stuff northern Ireland it’s just a drain in the rest of the u.k it’s politicians can’t agree on the day of the week its a jok. And digging up the border and letting it drift away would suit me

Oh dear what an angry sailor you are🙄now do one and get back into your box,if you don’t want to contribute to the discussion don’t read it!

NHS? CHANGE THE SUBJECT

FYI
To be entitled to free healthcare in Ireland, as you are in the UK, a single person has to earn less than €184 per week and a couple €266. This means most people in Ireland have to pay for health care. Even a single person on mimimum wage, working a 30 hour week, would earn significantly more than that.

To see a GP costs €70 a visit. A repeat prescription costs €25. You then have to pay for your own medication up to 80€ per month. That’s nearly 1K per annum if you have a long term condition. Lost a leg to cancer and require a prosthetic limb which costs close to €10,000 and has to be replaced every few years. Just costs the bus fare to the clinic in the UK. A neighbour had to fork out €11k several years back for medical expenses. He foolishly had no insurance and only got tax relief for 20% of it. In order to be able to afford healthcare, most people who work have to pay for health insurance. This is not cheap. Cover for a family of 4 will cost well over 4K per year.

I can’t see anyone in NI, who works, with a family and poesses more than half a brain voting for that. Anyway, recent polls suggest it will not happen any time soon. A poll taken recently in ROI for The Times show that 70% of respondents supported a united Ireland but when asked if it increased taxes, which it would, that support dropped to 37%. Support in NI is even weaker. Just 31% supported a united Ireland in June as reported in Belfast Live. This is despite Brexit and a huge demographic shift towards the catholic community.

I support a united Ireland but am I willing to pay for it? I’m with the majority; most certainly not.

Typo: possesses

Thank you a realist at last👍

Merry Christmas

Hi Mark…just one point no healthcare is free, it all costs a fortune..someone has to pay for it….in Ireland they have a 80/20 split between private and public expenditure..in the UK it’s more like 10-15% ( but we still have to pay for dental, optometrists, prescriptions, none emergency transport to and from hospital…some people have to pay a fortune to get to an ED for urgent care)…in the US it’s a 50/50 split….

But even public expenditure costs us individually..we all have to pay one way or another.

Still insignificantly miniscule compared to health costs to the individual in the ROI. We all pay tax as well in the ROI, except Apple, Meta, Google etc.

Healthcare? What about warships?

Christmas eve ramble…:-)
Have a good one.

To be fair we aren’t alone in that issue, I mean isn’t the RN facing a shortfall in recruitment this year? It’s more a complete failure to engage on Retention issues that have led to the current crisis, and the Departments knew it was coming for over a decade.

There’s a lot of mistakes in that post tbh.

Mark, I don’t post to often but quite enjoy reading most things people post… Well apart from him.

Many share your sentiment 😀

So tell me, I’m always eager to learn. Irish politics still reflects the divide – Fine Gael is still the pro-treaty party and Fianna Fail the republican anti-treaty side

There was no “referendum” on any matter at the time, and the composition of NI had been decided between London and Belfast during the War of Independence and presented to the Irish delegation, with the threat of renewed conflict if it was refused.

The split occured mainly because a)Dev was being himself as ever and b) many of those that opposed the treaty had delusions of what was possible.

Wow like potato blight only affected Ireland and not the whole of Europe and the Uk was not also sending aid to Ireland.

Get yourself on Wikipedia. Google is your friend.

Oh, here we go, someone will bring up leaving the lights on next🤣🤣😂

Stupid boy. Go and sit on the naughty step for the rest of the day

Feeling downtrodden and blaming the “English” (not the Scots or Welsh, just the English) is the national pastime for some on both sides of the border.

The potato blight affected the entire British Isles as well as Europe. The corn purchase was too little, too late. The inaction of Parliament was a shameful note in British history. We should have done more, much more. Whether it was racism, corruption or downright apathy, those responsible should have hung their heads in shame forevermore.

We cannot turn the clock back and correct the woeful errors made in 1845-52. None of the people in the RoI or UK alive today can be held responsible. The open border from the UK towards the RoI post-1919 is a positive step, my great-grandfather and great-grandmother both left Ireland in 1921 for England. He, a former British Army Sergeant and decorated WWI soldier came to Britain for a better life of their unborn son (my uncle). I knew the man in his 80s, by then he had two grandsons in the British Army serving in Ulster. He wouldn’t have anything said about the UK. He said “while Britain had progressed, the Republic was still backwards, his home town was still in the 1920 (based on a visit he made in 1973) and they had been in charge for the past 50 years”. He said to me “the worst thing the RoI had ever done was leaving the enlarged British family. Not because the British were that good, but because the Empire was at its height in the 1920s. The British couldn’t keep a good thing going without the strong backs and hard shoulders of the Irish. Once the Republic was declared wheel well and truly fell off the wagon. Now look where we all are now”.

My family in the Republic are lovely people, they have never brought up any issue they have with the “Brits” to my face. From talking to those who have come over from Belfast since my great-grandfather left, none have said they support reunification.

The injustices may well be real David, but they are historic in nature….

Do the Israelis constantly attack the Germans over a monstrous and still utterly unimaginable Holocaust, something that’s still within living memory?

A holocaust that makes the Anglo Irish troubles look like a neighbourhood spat over a borrowed lawnmower.

No they don’t, they were in fact happily trading with West Germany 15 years after the War.

So I don’t buy the “brooding over the British colonial injustice” approach, l honestly believe most Irish people don’t care about such things today, they have moved on and those that haven’t should brush the chips off their collective shoulders and get over it.

“l honestly believe most Irish people don’t care about such things today”

The Troubles are still a raw nerve among many folk on both sides of the divide. That’s why Varadkar has decided to take the UK to the ECHR over Johnson’s decision to draw a line under more investigations over allegations of “collusion” and “shoot to kill”

The Provos managed to shoot/blow up about 1000 British soldiers and RUC. The amnesty includes those responsible – but the Irish like the narrative that it was only the Brits who were doing the killing.

Following Boris’ ‘oven ready’ Brexit deal, Putin is working to open up old wounds and drive another wedge between the UK and Ireland and hence the EU.
Were the UK to offer Ireland defence help officially and the Fine Gael – Fianna Fail coalition accept, it would be political suicide. SF know this. Keeping a low profile with defence help is in both nation’s interest.
Ireland has serious issues with poverty and homelessness. SF positions itself to younger voters as the secular party of social justice, the future; the torch bearer of Irish identity while characterising FF and FG as the corrupt establishment ( aka catholic) past. Their strategy is working – on both wides of the border. North of the border the ‘establishment’ is the protestant unionists who, like the establishment parties in the south are struggling; clinging to a past that is fading.

Like it or not, Eire and the UK signed a defence agreement in 2015. The then UK Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, and his Irish counterpart, Simon Coveney, signed a Memorandum of Understanding between the UK and the Republic of Ireland to ensure greater defence collaboration.

For years official policy in Dublin has been to refuse to publicly discuss Ireland’s air defence arrangements with the UK or the presence of RAF interceptors in Irish airspace. However, according to published interviews with political, diplomatic and military figures, such an agreement goes back over 70 years to the early days of the Cold War and has been updated and amended several times over the decades with the approval of Cabinet.

The diplomatic equivalent of a gentleman’s agreement. Short of a formal registered treaty and no need for involvement of either legislature. Probably not legally enforceable in international law. Perfect 🙂

I could not put it better myself!

1849 was 178 years ago
1921 was 102 years ago

WW2 was only 78 years ago, should we still be angry at the Germans for all the V2s that landed on London?

Get over yourself, stop stoking the hate

At the end of the day, no solution would have satisfied both sides, partition was seen as the best of the options they had as a united Ireland only works if the 2 sides are willing to get along and considering the 2 sides hate each other over religion differences

I have replied to your unpleasant post with some advice but unfortunately it was moderated

👍

Yeah I suspect there is more to why the British Government decided to partition Ireland and I have a suspicion that the Irish Civil War had a part to play but the war would have been avoid if WW1 had not got in the way of Irish Home Rule Bill going through

Really? The Irish Civil War, sparked after the signing of the Treaty that recognised the already existing state of Northern Ireland had a part in the creation of NI? You do realise that the War of Independence was still going when the King opened the NI parliament?

As for what might have happened without WW1, most likely a rebellion in Ulster backed by the Army units in Ireland and supported by the Tories.

Consider the Irish Nationalists were smart enough to leave King George 5 alone when he opened the Northern Ireland Parliament as any successful attempt on KG5 will result in the Britishh getting involved

The Nationalists in NI at the time were busy trying to avoid Loyalist attacks on them, with violence and street burning happening even in the weeks around his visit.

Ireland has NOTHING TO DO WITH A UK DEFENCE JOURNAL, I DON’T GIVE A STUFF ABOUT IT. GET OFF THIS ODIOUS ISSUE

Mmm you did read the headline for this article didn’t you? I pretty sure Ireland was mentioned. Now just because Santa didn’t bring you all you wanted go away and shout somewhere else👍

Yet the British aided the precursor to the Republic of Ireland in that conflict but I suspect they were trying to prevent a civil war considering Lloyd George’s government probably was not keen on letting the Irish Catholics and Protestants trying to genocide the other which is where it would go without sensible people trying to intervene and sort it out

? The Civil War was sparked in part because of the demands of London to attack the Four Courts or allow British Forces to do so instead. Nor was there any serious attempt at “genocide” nor calls for it.

The problem with conflict based on religion, the only way the 2 sides it seems can only see to resolve it is by wiping the other side out

while there weren’t any serious attempts or calls for genocide, considering it was in the post-WW1 where you had a genocide happen and no sane Irish leader wanted to go as far as the Ottomans did

Rrubbish

Insightful comment as always.

When it comes to the Irish potato famine, it is far more complicated than what Irish nationalist want you to think

The potato famine was a problem across Europe not just Ireland

The primary cause of the famine was potato blight getting into the food supply something that i have personal experience in dealing with at Green’s Windmill garden we have had happen to potato we were growing last year if I remember rightly

Arguably the British Government of the late 1840s did not handle the Famine correctly, their response was inadequate

Good post which I believe highlights the key issue; European nations handled the famine more promptly and in more compassionate and pragmatic way – they were helping people they understood to be their own citizens. Notwithstanding its proximity Britain still viewed Ireland with a colonial mindset.

The dude didn’t say the injustices aren’t real. What do you gain from this? Do you want money? Move forward from this, the younger generation and most of the old generation have absolutely no involvement or hate towards the irish or agree with what historically we have done to ireland. Should we punish the youth that havent even lived during the troubles? Ireland is successful and not being oppressed anymore and even gets free defence by the looks of it.
ive never received any hate before in dublin for being British, in fact have been very welcomed and even have bantered about me being English. You could take note

Unfortunately and sadly the British treatment of Ireland is probably one of the most shameful episodes of our history…sadly fuelled in the main by fear and religion…

The only thing I would say is at the time the Irish potatoes famine was unstoppable…as a geo history fanatic I would say the following about the famine ( and this is a gross simplification).

The potatoe famine was causes but British policy going back to the time of Elizabeth and Cromwell, but could not be prevented at the time it occurred….so key facts

1) the Irish dependence on the potatoe was causes by a law created to ethically cleanse Catholicism or at least remove catholics from any power..it was a simple law that seems benign to modern thinking but utterly destroyed Irish agriculture. The law was if you were catholic you had to spread your inheritance and wealth across all your male heirs, unless one heir convert to Protestantism…this popery act basically meant that farms became smaller and smaller and smaller..as catholics owned and or farmed smaller and smaller plots of land…by the 19th this had lead to dependency on potatoes as this is the only crop you can grow on a small plot that has a chance of feeding a family.

2)this also meant there there was no infrastructure in Ireland ( especially western Ireland ) for processing other foods crops such as corn.

3) there was no infrastructure in western Ireland for moving and storing food.

so when the potatoe famine struck the deaths were caused by the popery act.and it’s impact on Irish agriculture over 2 hundred years…

There were a number of myths created…probably because it was the fault of the English but the concept of fault being created over hundreds of years is a bit esoteric for most people..so we have the myths of why it was the fault of the English and not the real reasons why it was the fault of the English ( 200 years of laws created to ethically cleanse the Catholics).

So to the myths.

1) corn export…yes it happened but in the same way as we export oil while some people cannot afford to heat their homes….it was a free markek.

2) Even if the corn had stayed in Ireland, Ireland did not have the infrastructure to grind the corn to flour..

3) The British government actually imported far more food into Ireland to manage the famine than was removed via corn sales on the open market. Including huge amounts of maze from the US

But the simple fact was the modern world with ships that can carry a 100,000+ tones of food across the globe in weeks we are still unable to prevent famines..

The UK for all its advancement was still an 19c power that dependent on wooden wind powers ships that could carry a a couple of thousand tons at best…and the west coast of Ireland was death to sailing ships…there was no way on earth any 19c power could ship food to western Ireland..it was impossible…at the same time the only way to move food by land was a horse and cart and there were no real roads in western Ireland..

simply put once the Irish Argo and food system was dependent on potatoes the famine was inevitable and no power on earth could have prevented it…but Britain did cause Ireland to be dependent on potatoes…Because it tried to ethnically cleanse the place.

what is also interesting is that at the time of the famine the UK agro industry was moving to potatoes as a way to feed the growing population…the famine basically killed that move…but if the famine had happened 5-10 years later it also would have occurred in the rest of the British isles.

Thanks for your interesting and detailed reply. As a number of my posts on this topic have been moderated I’ll say no more about it. Seasons greetings m8

The old death by moderation….have a great Christmas and I look forward to more debates and interesting discussions in 2024.

Yeah but let not forget that Queen Elizabeth the 1st was made anti-catholic by the way she was treated by them, as they tried to have her executed for her faith

these problems go back centuries and both Protestant and Catholic religon have fault in this

As I noted knight it was driven by religion and fear…the fear came from the fact England was a tiny Protestant power surrounded by Catholic superpowers whose avowed aim was to destroy them..Ireland was a knife in the back of England….the popery laws were driven by fear of Catholicism that was based in the reality of the 17c by the late 18c Britain was a power in its own right and major catholic superpowers were in their twilight years…there was no need to keep on going at the Irish Catholics…but the popery act was not repealed until the 19c (1871 infact)….if it had been repealed in the 18c the Irish agro system could have possibly been in a place to managed the potato famine.

but then almost every time a county reacts in a profoundly over the top way it’s driven by fear…only the overwhelmingly powerful can afford to be merciful…the weak either bow down and accept their fate or become brutal..look at the levant..Palestinian fear of Israel drives evil and Israel’s fear of the Arab world drives evil.

So David, are you saying we owe it to the Irish to help them as some form of reparation for the past? I think we’d have to be very careful here, if you do, as it would set a precidence with all former lands and colonies. Whilst I wouldn’t be totally unsympathetic to this sentiment I don’t go along with the thinking some have that millions needs to be paid out. I would also worry that our Navy and Airforce, a shadow of their former selves in terms of assets and manpower, would have the resources in which to police our own areas of responsibility, let alone others …. as much as I think we owe it to NATO members over our MPA capability gap under Cameron. Maybe some agreement, with a fixed time span on when the Irish will restore Sonar and recruitment back to viable levels is the way forwards but then where are the EU fleets in all of this? It’s as much a problem they need to manage as the Irish, is it not?

Who really gives a toss about Ireland

A T31 with FC/ASW is a very credible surface combatant. As an outer escort to a CSG that includes Astute and T26 it makes an adequate (no more) AA asset with quad packs and a powerful ASuW one, as noisy Chinese subs are hardly a risk. No one will send them near Russia, it would be a waste of time and they would take over other deployments