The stern block of HMS Glasgow was moved into place this week on the Clyde ready to be joined to her aft section.

Eight of these ships will replace the eight dedicated anti-submarine Type 23 frigates which will reach the end of their active lives by the mid 2030s.

In addition to the Clyde built Type 26, five Rosyth built Type 31 general purpose frigates are intended to replace the general-purpose Type 23s currently in service and also coming towards the end of their long careers.

According to the Royal Navy:

“Just over half of HMS Glasgow is now complete or under construction, out of eight planned vessels in the class (all are named, three have been ordered, two are in build at Govan – HMS Cardiff is No.2).

Once the fore and aft sections are complete they will be joined on the hard in front of the block hall, before the bridge/main mast are craned into place. The completed ship will then be ‘launched’ by being lowered into the Clyde via a barge, then towed downstream to BAE’s yard at Scotstoun to complete fitting out.”

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George Royce

Looking good. 8,000 tons and it’s a frigate?

Maybe the next destroyer after t45 should be 10,000 tons then.

Captain P Wash

The Original Destroyers were very small, more like Fast Torpedo Boats.

Dern

The terms frigate and destroyer are basically meaningless now anyway.

Captain P Wash

Indeed, Quite often you will see the Daily Papers referring to them as “Battleships”.

Dern

Not the point. The issue is the distinction between frigates and destroyers is just very blurry now, to the point you basically have a single group of surface escort warships.

Spyinthesky

I thought that was pretty much the point he was indeed agreeing upon.

Captain P Wash

It’s exactly what I was agreeing upon….. Funny place this at times.

Dern

That read more like “doesnt matter what you call them” as opposed to two specific classes of ships are merging into one to me.

geoff

To put a context on this-the Batch 2 OPV’s are as big, bigger than many WW2 destroyers

Dern

To put that into context, at 2,500t displacement a fletcher class destroyer was more like a protected cruiser (3,000t) than a destroyer (250t) from the 1880s. But it’s a irrelevant comparison.

Captain P Wash

Crikey, There was me thinking I was just agreeing with you and even offering an example of what the Press say. Did’nt realise you were looking for an argument.

Dern

Honestly sounds like you’re the one with the problem here mate, all I said was I misconstrued what you where saying and now you’re the one trying to make it personal.

captain p wash

Ha, I obviously missed your Misconstrument.

John Clark

I see the issue here Captain, Dern misconstrued your initial misconstrument involving something you both agreed on…..

Nothing to see here, move along now…

david

Have we started the argument yet? Is this a five pound argument or is it free?

Daniele Mandelli

Indeed. I remember your detailed explanation of all that a while back.

Captain P Wash

Easy enough to understand that even for a layman.

Daniele Mandelli

Morning Cap.

Yes, I was referring to an essay Dern created that he posted here once on the varied classes, roles, and tonnages of ships classes and how the designations changed.

Dern

Honestly I should find it and submit it to ukdj as an article. XD

Meirion X

Yes please Dern!

Captain P Wash

What Glue are they using this time ? c

Captain P Wash

What glue are they using this time ?

Last edited 1 month ago by Captain P Wash
Gunbuster

No glue…rolls and rolls of harry black maskers…

Captain P Wash

Shouldn’t Leak then !

Rob Collinson

I suggest gaffer tape!! The world’s most useful invention!!

Andy P

If the Goddamn commies come up with a ray gun that zaps HBM then we’re doomed…. doomed I say….

Challenger

18 vessels being built in Scotland since 2015 and yet the SNP still cry ‘betrayal’ because 8 instead of 13 of that number are T26. If they get independence let’s see how they like having 0 instead! The lack of options if Scotland did leave the union concerns me. Appledore is too small to be a viable alternative and Harland & Wolf haven’t built a ship of any kind for decades. Cammell Laird would seem the only choice but I read they struggled to get RRS David Attenborough delivered. I guess the fact they did eventually get her finished and… Read more »

Rob N

I agree – we have rather put all our eggs in one basket with UK warship construction. We should be looking at improving construction infrastructure in England. Certainly we should look at moving the nuclear subs down south. Along with the atomic weapons. Perhaps build new sub facilities at Barrow.

We should be diversifying our construction and infrastructure across the UK.

Captain P Wash

This has been discussed here many times, I doubt the powers that be haven’t made plans in the event of Scottish Independence, the trouble is finding another Gare Loch. Not such a difficult problem to relocate the Ship Building though.

Deep32

The use of Gate Loch is a throw back to the late 60’s and Polaris. Gare Loch was originally chosen as it provided plenty of cloud cover throughout the year-early satellite systems couldn’t penetrate clouds, so was an ideal location.
Nowadays they can, so, Gare Loch isn’t the best location as it’s a bit of a bottleneck and easy to close down. I suspect if MOD had a blank sheet somewhere altogether more open would be chosen, perhaps Milford Haven or possibly Falmouth!

Andy P

Deeps, (I’m guessing you are another ‘Deeps’) you also have to factor in where they would put the new ‘Coulport’ and the objections by the locals to that. Not everyone wants a nuclear arsenal down the road, plenty in Scotland aren’t keen on the idea.

Deep32

Yes mate, correct on both counts, another facility like Coulport would probably be the greatest challenge for any relocation I would imagine.

geoff

I would think that if one was to sit down and carefully compose a defence of the Union based on its value to all the peoples of the UK, and the consequences of a break up, then present it properly before a Referendum,the United Kingdom would comfortably remain intact. People really need to think with heart and head before consigning GB and NI to the scrapheap!

Captain P Wash

It’s comforting to know that we have, on this site, a person of such incredible Influence.

Deep32

I totally agree with you there Geoff.

Captain P Wash

Milford Haven Is one of the obvious options but of course Wales may choose to follow Scotland’s path.

geoff

Thank you for kind words Cap’n. Shipbuilding back in Belfast would also be nice but I wouldn’t put Titanic on the CV 🙂

Deep32

Absolutely Cap’n, what a difficult situation for any government to be in should the need ever arise! There is no quick way out/fix on this occasion I imagine.

Captain P Wash

A CND based Government might find an answer for the “Boats” I guess !

Deep32

Starting and ending with the phrase ‘scrap it all’ I would imagine!!!

Popeye

Surely the further north of England ( if closing Scottish bases ) the better. Obviously to counter the Russian threat.

Douglas Newell

And after doing this, we can share out the manufacturing of the Subs which is focussed Barrow in Furness to the rest of the UK, and what about sharing out Fighter Production from Warton? With the numbers involved in the UK now, it makes sense to have specialised factories, and its these specialised facilities that are shared around the country. The Scots, Welsh and people of Ulster contribute to the UK defence budget as well. I’m not the SNP’s biggest fan. I’m annoyed that their idiotic whining about separating Scotland for the rest of the UK has put the anchors… Read more »

Andy P

Douglas, that about sums it up for me too, the UK isn’t big enough to really have shipyards/factories competing for the various contracts, especially as the Defence industry has yomped up the smaller players over the years so we have ‘super businesses’. For cost (I’ know, I know) and practicality, the manufacture of military gear is in certain areas. It makes sense to have these areas of ‘expertise’. There are potential problems with having all the eggs in one basket but overall its going to make financially. As you allude to, this should be shared around the UK, it just… Read more »

Expat

So why not consider winning foreign orders, surely the way forward is a competitive industry and multiple yards. Foreign money coming into the country for orders. Increased GDP, keeping in mind defence is 2% of GDP so = more domestic orders follow.

Last edited 1 month ago by Expat
Andy P

I’m not sure why having work concentrated in one yard or factory would prohibit that. Especially with defence, a lot of countries want to build their own anyway so even if they use a UK design it will be built locally. For example the T26.

I’m not advocating the way things are, just saying there’s a logic for it.

Douglas Newell

I’m sure that BAE have considered wining foreign orders, and indeed have built a range of ships for foreign countries recently (Al Khareef, and corvettes for Brazil I think, though that was 10 years ago and not in Gavan) — with a couple built abroad – Thailand. Building abroad is probably going to be the norm for exports in the future, look at the recent Canadian and Australian Frigate “sales” – BAE is still making money, but they are built in Canada and Australia. Now we are out of Europe maybe the UK can be a bit more agile and… Read more »

Martyn Parker

The Scots get more than their fair share

Douglas Newell

We’re talking defence. So please tell me how the Scots get MORE than their fair share of the defence budget??? Remember we make up 10% of the UK population .

I think we get treated fairly by defence, I’m challenging your assertion we get MORE than a fair share. I look forward to seeing your detailed reply. ??

Order of the Ditch

Purely from a naval point of view it hasn’t hard to argue.

  • Most carrier spend happened in Scotland at Rosyth
  • When the T23s are out of service all Royal Navy escorts will have been built in Scotland.
  • 10% of the country building all of the escorts? Yes that is disproportionate. I say this as someone who lives opposite Rosyth.
Andy P

You can disappear up your own arse following that logic though mate, no offence. Should Scotland (in this case) build 10% of the Typhoons, Boxers or Ajax’s ?? We just don’t build enough of pretty much anything to have multiple companies building this stuff so we end up with one factory for this, one for that etc and in the divvy up of this it just happens that the Escorts have ended up being built in The Weedge (and now Rosyth). The carriers were assembled in Rosyth for practical reasons, no. 2 drydock is big enough (being extended for a… Read more »

Douglas Newell

The Carriers were assembled in Scotland over a long time (using a lot of English subcontractors BTW), with many of the blocks built around the UK. Rosyth was chosen for the size of the Dry Dock facility there. The T26 program has been going for several years and will run for and 15 or more … thats hardly a disproportionate amount of Defence spending in Scotland. All the nuclear subs – way more expensive – are being built in Barrow. Most of the Typhoons and the UK’s share of F35 are built in England. Westland built or assembled all at… Read more »

McZ

7.8%, to be honest. With NI having 2.8%, and Wales 4.5%. Once you begin to debate the idea of “fair shares”, you are already in the Anti-Union trap. There is no “fair share”. There is a company called BRITISH Aerrospace Systems, who decided, that Scotland is a good place to consolidate the surface vessel construction. It has nothing to do with being a “Scottish” yard. If consecutive governments would have not taken their shilpbuilding holidays, there woul be plenty of smaller yards in England and NI. The even larger point is, that Scotland is the shilbuilding powerhouse of the UK,… Read more »

David Barry

Barrow? Shifting sands, difficult lock gates – tides, wind farm and, I suspect, so very open to interdiction once at sea.it would take a great deal of sanitising… plus, Barrow is a sh!t hole which is why many RN choose Ulverston or Roose to live at, or the coast road.

Andy P

Well done for being the first to manage to shoe horn the SNP/Independence into the discussion. Sorry there’s no prize or anything, just the feeling of satisfaction and/or outrage that comes with bringing it up.

John Clark

It always happens Andy, but the usual SNP supporters have been suspiciously quiet of late, not rising to the bait …. It’s quiet, too quiet … I suspect they are all busy, the Irn Bru factory is being dismantled and relocated to a secret location in the Highlands, just in case there’s a snap referendum that leads to civil war….

Last edited 1 month ago by John Clark
Andy P

True John, true. I guess all the Indy fans are glued to the main event of ‘Big Eck V Wee Jimmy’, we’re very much the undercard.

As long as the ‘Jock juice’ keeps flowing, that’s the main thing, that and the vitamin T of course… slainte.

Last edited 1 month ago by Andy P
John Clark

Tell you what we do Andy, in the event of a second referendum, we seize control of the vital Tunnocks Tea Cakes and Irn Bru facilities and restrict supply, that will bring the Clans to the negotiation table quick enough…..

Andy P

I need to learn how to do the wee laughing face emoji…..

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken

I have it on good authority that if you are able to go more than 2 articles without mentioning the nationalist party and independence you will be gifted 3 cases of Tunnocks caramel wafers as a thank you.?? ?

???????????

Jings and Crivens, help ma Boab…. truly a gift from the Gods……

John Clark

Hang on, back up, rewind, what’s all this talk of Tunnocks Caramel wafers!

Now, I am well aware and addicted to their Tea Cakes, are you telling me they make Caramel wafers too. How has this eluded me!?

Andy P

Here you go John….

https://www.tunnock.co.uk/products/

Lots of offay braw stuff on there.

John Clark

Don’t torture me Andy, I’m trying to loose weight!

Ian Skinner

They are God’s own food, although I discovered you can only get certain varieties in Scotland.

John Clark

Great stuff!

Meirion X

The first steel should be cut and construction begins on the third T26 in April, that is 20 months after the 2nd began. That is in the T26 contract.
So BAE get moving quickly, with only three large sheds!

It is most likely other smaller sections/blocks of the 2nd T26 will have been completed already. They will just be assembled when the space is available.

Last edited 1 month ago by Meirion X
Meirion X

“Once the fore and aft sections are complete they will be joined on the hard in front of the
block hall, before the bridge/main mast are craned into place”

The bridge has already been craned into place, the main mask will still need to be craned into place.

Spyinthesky

Thanks I assumed the pics we previously saw must have been fake for a moment.

John

Any updates on the potential early decommissioning of the T23 and any other potential cuts that the papers are suggesting?

Meirion X

Most likely HMS Monmouth, and HMS Westminster just before first T26?

John

Thanks Meirion X. Hopefully just before. Any clarity on what the T32 will be? Just heard rumours it will be a T31 type of vessel as a mothership for AUV’s. Possibly the next stage T31 build of 5 to make up 10 T31/32.

Mark F

Get a move on and accelerate the build programme.

Paul.P

The Scottish and English halves of the hull being welded into a Union?

Airborne

Possibly the SNP half will sink….

John Clark

Does that mean the Tartan Army will want their Stern sections back if we seperate?

Expat

will be interesting to see how the T31 construction varies, for instance I heard there will be no scaffolding used on the T31.