Turkey’s military pension fund owner, OYAK, will take over British Steel it said this morning in a release.

According to report, Britain’s second-largest steelmaker employs 5,000 workers and produces high-margin steel products used in construction and railways. It supports a further 20,000 jobs in its supply chain.

The company was put into liquidation in May this year after Greybull Capital, which bought the firm for one pound from Tata Steel three years ago, failed to secure funding to continue its operations.

“We will continue to make our investments for the high benefit of our members and to take domestic and international steps with our growth-focused vision,” said OYAK General Manager Suleyman Erdem.

“It is expected that the due diligence process will be completed in October and if it is finalised successfully the transfer of the company will be completed by the end of this year,” OYAK said in a release.

Sarah Champion, Member of Parliament for Rotherham, said:

“Great news that Turkish army pension fund will buy British Steel, but why doesn’t our Government see the benefit to the UK and take them into public ownership?”

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Spyinthesky
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Spyinthesky

I wonder what they see in this business that those closer to home clearly don’t. Not sure where this lies on the visionary v delusion scale, I hope it turns out to be nearer the former but if it is that in itself asks questions of our own attitude to heavy industry.

Julian
Guest
Julian

According to a piece on BBC1 news this lunchtime the Turkish pension fund already has a very significant investment in another steel plant somewhere (I think in Turkey) that makes a slightly different but complimentary type of steel so it is believed that there could be some synergies between the two operations. One hopes that “synergies” is not a euphemism for significant job loses. If so then I assume such job losses would be from streamlining certain functions to a combined entity that could enable and represent the entire product portfolio rather than any manufacturing jobs. Perhaps sales, marketing and… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Excellent news, well done the Turkish Army pension fund. Also, well done Ken Clarke for being open to the idea of being leader of a caretaker government to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Ken is one of the few politicians that could command the support of both sides of the house. I would love to see Ken lead a government of national unity to see us through this troubling period. The ‘fat lady’ hasn’t sung yet guys! But hopefully the ‘fat guy’ is choking on his lies!

Herodotus
Guest

Oh, by the way, on Saturday the 19th of October there will be a mass march in London for a second referendum. I shall be attending….hopefully many of you will be there as well. Bollocks to Brexit.

Paul Bestwick
Guest
Paul Bestwick

I suspect that by that point we will be in the throws of a general election campaign, with the election day being the 31st or a week later. By then it’s too late.

Herodotus
Guest

Sadly Paul, you may well be right. But whatever your allegiances, you can’t say that politics today is boring!

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

That would be a very contentious issue. It would go against many rules set in place for the running of parliament. You are not supposed to carry anything out that would have major implications for the country while you are waiting for a general election. It is there to stop people spitefully causing harm to the country due to them being annoyed that they are being forced out of power. The correct course of action would be to delay the exit from the EU until after the general election.

Also parliament could technically take control from the government.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Looking forward to a EU Army are you? The only one talking Bollocks is you.

Ds
Guest
Ds

Intelligent counter argument!

Herodotus
Guest

Intelligent counter argument?

dave12
Guest
dave12

I think Ds was being sarcastic.

Herodotus
Guest

Thanks Dave, that’s why I put a question mark at the end. Sometimes, it is difficult to tell, especially when your views are in a minority and you are expecting to be attacked

dave12
Guest
dave12

Yes I know what you mean.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

I am just using his language back at him.

Herodotus
Guest

Hi Trevor, I am very critical of some of the EU policies….but, like many others, I think our interests are best served by remaining in the EU but arguing and campaigning for reform!

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

We had a legitimate referendum. Democracy said leave. That’s democracy but a minority want to subvert that. If we are here now it’s because Labour and LDs refused several time to support the WA in petliament. They are just posturing for their self serving ends. If a political party wants to stand in a general election and say they will put us back into the EU… That’s proper democracy. You just go ahead and campaign for that and good luck to you. But don’t go trying to subvert democracy (behind smoke filled rooms and behind peoples backs) and crassly spew… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

The whole reason for asking for a second referendum is to ensure democracy!

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

You are the funniest man since Charlie Chaplin slipped on a banana skin.
Why stop at 2 referendums. All you want to do is spit in the eye of the public.

Lewis
Guest
Lewis

I respected your argument until your second referedum democracy comment and attempting to smear leave supporters as Nazis. Ignoring your child like understanding of politics, I.e. everyone who I don’t like is a fascist, demanding repeat votes until you get the deal that you want isn’t democratic at all. Especially when the vote is slanted because parliment deliberately made our position undeniable by agreeing to vassal state terms with the EU, thereby forcing people to vote remain in a second referendum. But ignoring that, presumably in the case that remain won, you’d be perfectly happy for leave to then demand… Read more »

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

Spot on.

farouk
Guest
farouk

H wrote:
The whole reason for asking for a second referendum is to ensure democracy!

Using that same argument can I demand that Huddesfield Town be reinstated into the Premier Div. And can I claim offence as been known as Hudds Nil, really hurts my feelings

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

Come on Farouk even Kim jong whatever wouldn’t stoop that low as to square away Huddersfield Town! Nope let’s just keep going for as many referendums as we canuntil us peasants eventually vote the way we are expected to, supported by those remainer “useful idiots”! Is it me or is it the wealthier you are the more likely you lean to the remain side?

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

Reform? They’ve resisted reform for many decades & only want ever closer union. Reforming the EU is pie in the sky wishful thinking or a smokescreen under which to march on with the ever closer union/subjection bandwaggon.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Trevor – Well said. When the man writes ‘Bollocks to Brexit’ he really means ‘Bollocks to democracy when I don’t win’.

Herodotus
Guest

I agree that Bollocks to Brexit is a little silly…however, it is better than ‘Seig Heil’.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Herodatus – I am not sure if you are just some annoying little Troll or someone who likes to insult people with extremist language to trigger a reaction (oh wait thats the same thing. My bad …) The inference of me being a Nazi by you once again is noted. But this time take a very royal ‘FUCK YOU’ from someone who is possibly far more aware of what the Nazis did to Jews, Gays, disabled, Gypsies and many others which included his wider family than some jumped up little Remaintard like you can possibly realise. If throwing ‘Seig… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

I’m sure they are Chris and I am sure that they have noticed where the abuse is coming from. I have never accused you of being a Nazi. Your posts are full of hatred, insulting language and bile. When it comes to abuse you take the biscuit (though CPW comes a close second). You appear not to be able to control your own emotions and, therefore, try to control other peoples’ behaviour. That is what infants do! Chris, if you voted in the 1975 referendum you must be, like me, of retirement age. Try acting as if you have understood… Read more »

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Herodatus -“I have never accused you of being a Nazi”
You have done it 3 times in a few days. Only Nazis (for example) shouted ‘Seig Heil’ and that comment was made 4 hours ago.

Yes I do get annoyed when someone feels its OK to make subjective, crude and offensive comments about someone they have never met simply because they voted to leave the EU. I stand by my every word and will happily let other judge me as they will.

i will certainly not take lectures on how to live life from someone like you Old Son….

Herodotus
Guest

I didn’t say that you said Seig Heil…..read my post again. I said that Bollocks to Brexit was silly but better than saying Seig Heil…that is all. Funny how you are now claiming victim status when you have been the most insulting poster on UKDJ. Appeals to victimhood won’t wash now. Look at your posts….if you want to play the victim…I’m afraid you are too late!

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Well said

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

Oh dear Herodotus you have stooped a bit to low and now seem to be less of an educated and informed person to a peddler of nonsense and stupid one liners, with throw away comments you expect to hear from losers and morons! When you have no other argument or comment it’s best to keep it down, not to become like a first year student at their first demo!

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Perhaps he just wants to keep the Union together and doesn’t want UK foreign and trade policy decided by Trump and Bolton!

dave12
Guest
dave12

Exactly Julian thats my concern.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – The only threat to the Union is the SNP. Brexit isn’t unless you are a Remainer prepared to peddle that lie. And the inference our policies will be dictated by Trump and Bolton is farcical. Of course our policies are influenced by many factors and who our friends are but even I would not claim our foreign policy is ‘decided’ by the EU although we are obliged ‘to align’ our foreign policy with that of the EU. Sorry you didn’t know that? Of course we are not allowed any trade policy while in the EU so that… Read more »

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Why do you say that? It’s exactly how it is. It sounds to me like Brexiteers arrogance and complacency is the biggest threat. Brexit feeds the SNP narrative daily. But Brexiteers are myopic and only fixated on the vote and their majority wish. You are too far down the road to backtrack now and see any sense. It would be the end of the world for you were it not to happen….perhaps there is still a chance…

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – Sorry the SNP have been misrepresenting the UK and ‘feeding off’ other situations long before 2016 happened. And I guess it doesn’t cross your mind that the Remainer narrative of a 2nd vote to defy the first vote plays EXACTLY into the SNP’s hands as they wish to do exactly the same thing? So of course they will blame Brexit to encourage the Remain side. You are being played like the SNP always play off others. Wise up. The SNP are the Champion Blame Makers after all.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Just be told by the anti democratic EU and the Irish PM then?
But tell you what, just carry on anti American and live in your own happy daze. Me I am happy for the UK to have as much free trade with anyone, anyone who wants. But you know what I really think…? All that seems fair enough to me, unlike what’s seems to me the bigotry of others.

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

NOt anti American by any stretch, just anti the current incumbent and his henchmen and the way he has us over a barrel.

As for the Irish PM, that Office was almost irrelevant until the “backstop”. You can’t blame him for wanting to protect his own country and it’s us who’s elevated his profile and power!

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

You do realise that the EU is not anti-democratic? While Trump is doing his best to turn his supporters against the free press? Also the US hates having trad deficits with anyone. Trump is doing his level best to renegotiate every single trade deal where a trade deficit exists. Guess who has a trade surplus with the US? We will get hammered by the US in any trade deal. They know we are in a weak position, they know they are much bigger than us and they know that they will not accept anything that leads to them still being… Read more »

Jas
Guest
Jas

If we had played our cards right, we could of led the EU army, but you know lets bottle it & run to be the US its not like they have a long track record of shitting on us is it, Oh wait yes they do…

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Typical anti American attitude. We are not running away from anything… We are an important partner in NATO. Comments like yours just show you want to break up NATO.

Jas
Guest
Jas

No i like the yanks , im just not a fan boy, they have a long tradition of shafting us when it suits them. From suez to the SR-177 the whole show us your nuclear secrets then we wont show you ours. But dont let facts get in the way.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

The EU army will not happen while the UK is in the EU…

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

That’s the best line I’ve heard since Bruce Forsyth last played The London Palladium.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

You need to get out more… Plus you need to learn more about the EU… The UK has consistently pushed back on any EU Army. It would have to have UK approval to be put into practice. Many EU practices and laws are UK lead. In fact most of the ones brexiteers seem to dislike…

julian1
Guest
julian1

I’d be quite happy for an EU army anyway – as long as it is correctly resourced, trained, operated and commanded – with the right political leadership. Why not – the EU has interests which don’t necessarily concern NATO so it makes sense. And yes, we could have been the driving power, after all its what we do well. Imagine, the EU army could have set up safe enclaves in N Africa or the Balkans to prevent the genocide and humanitarian disasters. Its a shame the success criteria are not there but its a good aspiration to have.

Elliott
Guest
Elliott

A Army led by EU bureaucrats couldn’t lead men into a Amsterdam whore house, much less a war. The institution of the Army requires much more than resources. It requires time, effort, discipline, esprit de corps, and patriotism.
The EU countries were the reason that BOTH North Africa and the Balkans turned into hell holes in the first place. Why would anyone trust them with a transnational Military?

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

I agree with you, but if the bloc is to be serious and develop, it has to be part of the plan. The biggest problem is very different cultures and capabilities of different armies…and many small armies with no obvious dominant power. I’d like to see them put their money where their mouth is and at least try.

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

Well put. They claim credit for the peace won by the WW2 allies & kept by Nato since.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Herodatus – Why do you never hold these marches outside London? There is a world beyond the M25. Oh wait no … outside your Metropolitan echo chamber most people voted Brexit didn’t they? As the June EU Elections proved. Remind me how Labour and the Tories did and which party won by a country mile?

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Parliament is in London…

Herodotus
Guest

Thanks Lee, that is the point, is it not?.I was going to say ‘because I don’t organise them’. Didn’t UKIP and Brexit also march in London. There were at least 10 people present. Brexit, laughably produced two teenage girls to march the last mile. Trying to deflect the image that most of their supporters were in sheltered accommodation. Tellingly, who was the star turn, yes, no other than Tommy Robinson. A fine example of the democracy that Chris is fighting for!

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

I would probably tone it down a bit now. I’m guilty of biting a bit, but we’re all here for defence not a re-run of the endless cacophony of back and forth crap slinging that is a Brexit twitter debate.

Robert blay
Guest
Robert blay

We’ve had a referendum, Leave won. I voted remain, but i respect the will of over 17 million people. That’s democracy.

Rokuth
Guest
Rokuth

Sorry, but I won’t be able to make it. Working that day…
Oh wait, I’m not in the UK. Nevermind then.

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

I reckon the earth will still rotate, the sky will stay up pretty high and the sun will still turn up every morning on the 1st Nov. We are trying to leave the EU not the bloody planet! I love the remainers super efforts at catchy phrases for their BREXIT fight. Bollocks to Brexit, come on Herodotus, with your avatar name we do expect something more original and thought provoking. Enjoy your slow walk in London, I expect to see some excellent and well thought out, and hopefully rhyming placards. Have a great day my friend.

peter french
Guest
peter french

Who are you referring to as “The Fat Guy” Clarke or Boris,Clark,s weight is mainly round the midriff and if he could lay of the Wine for a minute he might be listened to. other than that he,s a Europhile as are you and has always postured and spouted against the Leavers ,.As for Prime Minister who ever thought that up must be an advocate of April 1st tomfoolery .Im sure he wont be gratefull for your endorsement as that would reduce any popularity he has

Herodotus
Guest

Ken Clarke is a very able politician and has significant respect in the House. He was also an excellent Chancellor…leaving a healthy economy for Blair’s honeymoon days.

John
Guest

You cannot reform the EU from within. Cameron tried and failed miserably. The only choice is remain in the EU and move towards ever closure union with continued erosion of our sovereign state. Or leave the EU and regain our own sovereignty. If we can leave and trade with them all the better. The EU cannot be reformed by the UK.

Herodotus
Guest

John Major achieved considerable success with opt outs. Cameron was a lousy politician. I agree, reform is difficult but not impossible.

Ian
Guest
Ian

So ‘opt outs’ is your idea of reform

Herodotus
Guest

No, not my idea of reform, but an indication that the EU is not an immovable mountain!

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Never mind Herodotus, there are many on here who believe becoming a client state of the US is better than that of the EU. At least yo get to vote for your EU Parliament. When Trump says jump you ask “how high mr President?”

As i’ve said before, the notion of independence is rubbish, we will shortly just take our orders from elsewhere…

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – We vote for an EU Parliament that has no legislative powers. Brilliant idea that! Just remember where the power lies and that is with the EU Commission – the only body that can write, amend and repeal EU Laws, Directives and Regulations. And who elects them? Not me and you thats for sure. Was Van Der Leyen’s name on a ballot paper the other week> No it was not and she is now the most powerful person in the EU. The ability to even challenge these laws is denied to our own Parliament where EU Law goes… Read more »

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Well said

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

The Commission proposes legislation, it does not pass legislation. It is not directly voted for but nominees are put forward by each Government who are voted for. So if you do not like the nominee your Government has put forward then vote for a different party next time. The Proposed legislation is then put forward to the Council (The leaders of the member countries) and to Parliament (Those that are directly voted for) Either of these bodies can pass or reject the legislation. Remember that you also do not get to elect a prime minister in the UK, they are… Read more »

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

The UK PM is (usually) an elected member of Parliament already. The Commission President is not.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

The PM does not have to be an elected MP. There are no rule about that at all. The Commission President could indeed be an elected MEP. The point is that someone else elects them to be the leader. The someone else that elects them is elected by the public. It is not some masonic order… However the UK PM is elected by people that pay to be members of a party. They are not elected by people that are in themselves elected. Plus the Commission President does not have a huge amount of power at all. They are not… Read more »

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Lee1 – let me quote from the EU Parliament website itself: “The European Parliament may approve or reject a legislative proposal, or propose amendments to it. The Council is not legally obliged to take account of Parliament’s opinion but in line with the case-law of the Court of Justice, it must not take a decision without having received it.” So as Juncker once commented ‘if its yes we carry on and if its no we continue’. The EU Parliament cannot of course repeal any EU Laws. More importantly the UK Parliament itself can neither deny, amend or repeal EU… Read more »

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

I said we could vote in euro elections and you agreed? What’s factually incorrect with that. Yes the various EU offices are different and as you say, not for the likes of you and I. Our leaders though,IF WE PARTICIPATE, do influence the selection of these candidates. Either way, it’s better than our influence over the choice of US office. Now, I clearly don’t have the time you have to write long researched responses since I work and commute (when I read this), but that doesn’t mean to say that your responses are holier than thou since you have your… Read more »

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – We agree we vote in EU Elections. But that does not address the democratic deficit that that parliament has no power to legislate. That power rests in unelected bureaucrats hands as exemplified by the recent appointment of Van der Leyen to succeed Juncker. My point was did we have any chance to vote for her? No. Point made. As for influence what influence did our PM have on her appointment? None. point made again. And then you drag in a ‘US office’ for some reason. Its irrelevant. But what is for sure the USA would not allow… Read more »

julian1
Guest
julian1

did you know that the USA was once a collection of British, French and Spanish run colonies that came together? They all had their own laws and ways of doing things and yet they came together. That process only ended about 150 yrs ago. At some point, all those states made the decision to give up alot of local sovereignty to federal sovereignty. The East coast states did it in the late 18th century with the west coast and southern states joining later in the mid 19th century. so yes, those states did it! not identical set of circumstances…but similarities

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – I am well acquainted with the history of the USA but thanks for the reminders. Not sure the French were too involved in British America after they were defeated by the British in the Franco Indian War which had them packed off to what is now Quebec. Even Florida was given to the British by Spain after that war as they moved off to Cuba. The war of Independence was a British Civil War fought on British territory where the French and Spanish assisted the rebels. So the USA came together in war surely? But I take… Read more »

Elliott
Guest
Elliott

Julian1 The only French part of the United States was Louisiana beyond their use of the Civil Code their is no major difference as they were colonials also and therefore had the mentality. As for the Spanish parts? The only significantly inhabited part was Texas the rest had their population simply overwhelmed. In Texas the result was their larger populationwas the forming of the Tejanos (meaning roughly Texas born Americanized Hispanics). Note this did not materially affect the imposition of Americans Law and the Constitution. “That process only ended about 150 years ago.” No, it did not. Every one of… Read more »

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Thanks for filling in the many gaps, i always find the history interesting when I visit a new state

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

“Further not very identical to Europe as 99% of the population spoke American English”

Nobody speaks “American English”

American English is not a language it’s a dialect, they spoke English, you speak English.

Lt Aldo Raine
Guest
Lt Aldo Raine

Oh, I’m afraid you’re very misinformed about EU law-making. The European Parliament plays a big role in law-making and, you know what, some MEPs come from the U.K. believe it or not. That said, I’m not sure how much UKIP MEPs contributed to law-making over the course of the last Parliament’s term. They could have spent their time and energy trying to improve draft legislation for both the U.K.’s benefit and the EU as a whole. Sadly I’m sceptical this was the case.

Herodotus
Guest

Yes, all those that wrap themselves in the flag and talk about democracy are going to have a rude awakening if a no-deal Brexit happens. As a teacher, I feel desperately sorry for the young people in this country. There is much more support for remaining in the EU by youngsters than older generations. It is their future that selfish old (semi-educated) fools are ruining. This is why there should be a second referendum….all those kids that were not 18 in 2016 are having their futures decided by people who will not be there to see the outcome. Some of… Read more »

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

I think we should possibly keep to defence discussion. Many times now I’ve seen topics morphed into an anti-Brexit semi-rant by yourself.

Edit, posted incorrectly, meant in response to Herodotus.

Herodotus
Guest

Thanks Steve, appreciate your views but a rant is only a rant when you don’t agree with the views expressed!

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

See my reply above.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Herodatus – I share your concern for the younger generation if you are an example of the people who are teaching them. Do you really tell them all older folks must be Brexiteers, they are all therefore Nazis, they are all therefore selfish and they are all of course ‘semi-educated’? I suspect you do and you therefore distort their true vision of people who have done their bit, possibly served as I have, paid for their education, health care and welfare system through their decades of taxes and built the country in which they live? In many mature and… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Well Chris, you have just proved my point. When it comes to an argument, you can’t keep a civil tongue in your head. I would complain to George if I were you!

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Herodatus – Oh I am sure George and everyone else will see your little trick for what it is. A nice deflection but a failed one. I responded in detail to each of your comments so if you don’t like the reply maybe stop making arsewipe comments.

Herodotus
Guest

Actually Chris, I hadn’t realised that you were a Brexiteer. In fact, I thought you were one of those ‘devious remainers’ (a term you like to use). A devious remainer that was trying to give Brexiteers a bad name by the excessive use of insulting language; which is why I played along with you on a previous post. Still, the objective was achieved…even if you didn’t mean it.

Harry Bulpit
Guest
Harry Bulpit

So what are you going to say when we decide to stay in the EU, and the eu decide their fed up with us and knowing we are week and desperate to stay, remove all are privileges, demand we use the euro. Then a new political party come to power, say lib dems who are voted in due to their home policys with little attention to their eu policys. They then surrender even more of are independence to the eu. Until one they the monicy no longer exists, great Britain no longer exists and all are proud military history is… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Not at all Harry. I quite understand the position of those that want to leave the EU. I have never suggested that life for Britain within the EU is easy. There are many issues regarding the future direction of the EU that are problematic and need resolving. As I have said before, I believe that the best future for Britain is within the EU…at worst, a Norway style deal would be okay. But, for everyone’s sake we need to remain in a customs union. The last thing this country needs is Trump Dollar diplomacy….we would become a third rate state… Read more »

Harry Bulpit
Guest
Harry Bulpit

“that selfish (semi educated) fool’s” i think where the words you used to describe us in one of your previous comments. Besides you still haven’t answered my question. Reform is all well and good but what heppens when its already to late to keep baleing out the sinking ship and the life boats already left.

Harry Bulpit
Guest
Harry Bulpit

Or better still your coment of “bolloks to brexit is better then seige hail” which certainly implies that those who disagree with your statement may have other beliefs.

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

Absolute chuff, you are showing how embarrassing and presumptuous you can be! Semi educated? How arrogant! A teacher? Wow yawn!

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ John – Well said. we must remember Juncker’s words during a referendum on the EU “If its yes we carry on. If its no we continue”

To us ‘reform’ means change and improvement but sadly to the EU the word ‘reform’ means more of the same. Any speech from Verhofstedt says so.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

You can indeed reform it. Cameron did not try, he was technically threatening them not working with them. They also knew that the only reason he was asking for help was because he wanted to keep the Conservative party together. That is not a good position from which to reform anything… What he should have done genuinely talk to people about what is good for the EU not just or the UK Conservative party.

dave12
Guest
dave12

Ken Clarke seems to be the more level headed than most MPs in parliament at the moment along with Rory Stewart on this issue.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Herodatus – I don’t know which is more pitiful your lauding the fact that yet another major British heavy industry will fall under foreign control or rejoicing in what is by any definition a Parliamentary coup. And worse yet a coup deliberately designed to betray the democratically expressed decision of the British Electorate in 2016. Let alone betray the same Electorate that put these people into Parliament in 2017 on (evidently) false Manifestos which said they supported Brexit. Manifestos that drew 80% electoral support. But then you, like all Remainers and indeed the EU itself, only accept referendum results… Read more »

Mike
Guest
Mike

Most around me have changed their mind and having voted Brexit they now wish we could stay in the EU. Most people I speak with seem to think we were told lies by Johnson and Farage.

Herodotus
Guest

That is my impression as well. A second referendum now would be the best thing for democracy in this country!

Harry Bulpit
Guest
Harry Bulpit

Really? Most brexiters i know have only become more strong in the beliefs largely due to the arrogancy of some people. I’ve even met a couple of remaners who have turned.

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Mike – Well unlike some I will not challenge your honesty in making that statement as I respect most on here as genuine people. I would like to know what lies you think were told (and please lets not have the Red Bus) and in the meantime I will refer you to that £9 Mn leaflet the Government sent to everyone. Every page with lies, deceit and threats. However I would gently refer you to the results of the EU Elections in May this year. The Brexit Party barely 6 weeks in the making won by a landslide. You… Read more »

jonny
Guest
jonny

And what about all the Russian interference with the referendum? Clearly they felt threatened by the E.U and wanted to break it up. We are playing right into their hands and I thought, being a defence site, people might be against that. I don’t agree that all old people are leave voters in fact I read an article of some 90 something year old saying he was ashamed that our country wants to go back in time after spending so long uniting Europe after single handedly holding it together. No one knew exactly what they were voting for and both… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

You are right Jonny…not all old people are leave voters…I am 65 and I know many others of my age that want to remain in the EU. The stats are that young people are much more positive about Europe than people of my generation. It’s more a question of proportions. I hope that you get to vote in a second referendum…our young people deserve to decide their future, whether that is remain or leave. It is your generation that is going to have to build that world!

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ jonny – 1. Please can you list with sources all the Russian interference that occurred in the 2016 referendum 2. You are right not all old people voted Leave. just as not all young voters voted Remain (you forgot that bit). But do you agree with the comments made that it was all the old people’s fault? And that anyone who voted Leave must be uneducated and possibly Nazis? 3. As someone who actively campaigned in Suffolk for Vote Leave and won a 60% leave vote and in doing so delivered thousands of leaflets, held dozens of street stalls… Read more »

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

But Jonny, what you have to remember is that that federation will give you wonderful education, cultural, travel and life opportunities and all without any kind of visa or permissions. Those opportunities will be gone and you won’t get them anywhere else.

jonny
Guest
jonny

I know, my comment was in support of the E.U

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – That was almost perfect irony … So no one was educated, there was no culture,no one travelled and there were zero opportunities before the EU were there? How on earth did we ever survive? Except of course thats ‘bollocks’ to use a Libdem phrase or saying. Just on travel and working I was working in Germany aged 18 in 1965. I got a stamp in my passport and off I went. So why do we need Freedom of Movement and the EU? What the EU offers is not exclusive and its not free. Amazing that Rhodes Scholars… Read more »

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Chris, do you have grandchildren? Have you heard of the Erasmus university program..did you go inter-railing?..freedom of movement, to work, to live…..open borders. Please don’t tell me these all existed in 1976? All the very things your movement hate. If we leave, those opportunity are gone. according to you it’s all upside leaving….dishonest or deluded to the core

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian1 – Well once again we have the typical Remainer negatives and false projections. Yes I have Grandchildren (3) and guess what both my kids voted Leave. So your point was exactly? Yes I know what Erasmus is but I also know when I was at school and then in work we had kids from all over the world at universities up and down the land and we also (SURPRISE) had British kids studying abroad and not just in Europe. No I didn’t ‘inter rail’ but before the Eu I did catch trains all over Europe. You may not… Read more »

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

I have heard some chuff pro remain garbage before but Julian’s has to be the top one for now! What utter Lib Dem type over simplified verbal crap, which they specifically aim towards the young and inexperienced people who have yet to experience life or see the world past uni! Let’s hope julian works for the remain propaganda department as if that’s the best they can do, then thank you very much.

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

My God how did we ever travel in the past having to get a visa to Europe!!!!OMG the sky will fall in and nobody will ever travel again, having to get a damn visa! And we won’t ever get such opportunities anywhere else, wow I must have missed the fact the other 160 odd or so countries of the planet disappearing! Wow that as to be the weakest pro remain comment I have heard for quite some time. Federation, which one? are we in Star Trek now?

jonny
Guest
jonny

Good points. I’ll come back to Russian interference sources when I’m not using a phone. As for everything else yes obviously not all young voters voted remain, I’m not stupid. I don’t believe that is was ‘old people’s fault’. There were a number of factors, not least misleading lies on both sides as I’ve already said. And I never mentioned nazis… ‘do I think leave voters are all uneducated’-NO. But in my experience, admittedly I’m at school so I haven’t met a wide variety of people as you must have done as a campaigner, everyone I have met supporting leave… Read more »

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ jonny – That young man was an excellent response and a lesson in how to continue a discussion. Others may like to note. Well done you but grab a coffee ….. Now clearly we are never going to agree but I hope we can at least agree to disagree? Of course on the Remain side you also have those that make rather daft comments (as can be seen on this Thread) but I can assure you that most Leavers do not subscribe to the ‘Migrants can piss off’ theory. Yes some do but not all. UKIP didn’t and had… Read more »

jonny
Guest
jonny

Ok fair enough, all seem sensible reasons to leave the E.U. Just one thing though, won’t we go from being controlled by one big organisation to being dominated by the U.S (and it’s chlorinated chicken)? It sounds as if Boris Johnson is pally with Trump and trump will only do what’s good for his country, I doubt he really cares about ours. On the other side we are desperate for trade deals so we would take anything we can get. I’m guessing you don’t believe no deal will be as bad as remainers say, but surely there will be some… Read more »

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ jonny – well regarding the USA can I just list some positives (IMHO)? * We are the 5th largest economy * The UK is the single biggest inward investor in the USA * The USA is likewise the biggest investor into the UK * The UK is the biggest foreign supplier to the US Military * The USA is now our biggest export market @ $64 Bn vs Germany @ $47 Bn * The UK itself is STILL receiving more foreign inward investment than the rest of the EU combined. Here can I offer a friendly piece of advice?… Read more »

Julian
Guest
Julian

@Chris H … “As for backing up arguments I would suggest we won that referendum because we offered positive arguments while Remain just projected negative campaigning against Leave.” I agree, and as a Remainer that infuriates me (as in I’m angry at the Remain campaign not at Leave for doing a much better job). Even worse, as the campaign progressed and Remain’s negative messaging failed to gain traction, the response from the Remain camp was not to switch to positive messages but rather to make the negative messaging ever more shrill e.g. George Osborne’s statement towards the end of the… Read more »

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ Julian – Excellent, well thought out reply. Thank you. We are all passengers now by the way …

Airborne
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Airborne

Mate what chuff. When “your generation” get in power what will you do? You will live off the backs of those who have gone before, as every generation does. And can I ask what does “ it says a lot about leave voters who believed the big red bus” mean? Do elaborate as to your perception of those people? Personal experiences through life lead people to have a thought process and a direction of thinking. Do not patronize people who have voted for something, for reasons personal to them, gained from experiences which you have yet to come across. Your… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

What a joke…numbers on that day…bloody bullshit, In case you don’t know chum (which you don’t) it is the Royal Holloway College, University of London. Farage is a cheap barrow boy….and you are not much better. He is as likely to be PM as my haemorrhoids. Respected electoral calculus…you’d better rush to google to find out what that means!

Chris H
Guest
Chris H

@ herodatus – All you have left is a quibble over a missing word when the meaning is obvious and irrelevant to the main point. Pathetic. It was not ‘bullshit’ they were two independent respected sets of people assessing and interpreting how those results converted to Constituencies. I didn’t need to Google anything unlike you. Some of us do our own research and I really do know what these people do. So here is the ‘Electoral Calculus’ Website. Read and learn if you have the attention span: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html Sadly you seem to have not fully read my post in your… Read more »

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Great comedy, we’re at our comedy best when angry

Airborne
Guest
Airborne

Have to say you are getting worse and by this reply you are sounding rude, rattles presumptuous and a bit arrogant. Calm your pants pal as your ability to remain calm is seemingly limited.

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

No need for a 2nd ref, weve already had one. The very wise, intelligent and sensible voters chose to cleave us away from the EU. A Wonderful outward looking, embracing and global leave won.
I’ll get in touch with you on November 1st.
What are you doing to celebrate this wonderful day?

geoff
Guest
geoff

If it is of value to The Turkish then why in heavens name can it not be of value to British Institutions? There is something radically wrong with the way the UK economic sector is structured. Virtually all our major companies are foreign owned. We are alone as a vehicle manufacturer for example, in not owning a single major car manufacturer-not even a token minority share!! We are heavily invested overseas but why does this strange domestic setup exist?

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Typical fake news. But dont let that stop you and your fellow commentators. The ONS say that 1.1% of non financial registered companies are foreign owned. We are big in the financial sector as is well known. Inward investment in the UK is still strong… and that is a good thing. We are also still, increasingly it seems, investing in abroad, so those profits come back to us.

geoff
Guest
geoff

Thanks Trevor but that does not alter the fact that nearly every iconic British Brand is foreign owned-the whole of the Car Industry, much of the Aerospace sector-“Westland”, Airbus and then Cadburys,Sothebys,Boddingtons, Beefeater, Hovis, Harrods etc etc etc

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Am I bovvered about Harrods?
What worries me is that Harrods and their ilk are happy to import people to work from abroad rather than use our people who are Not in Education Employment and Training. But bleeding liberal lefty appologests are happy to see a whole sub culture languishing in benefits.

Herodotus
Guest

Just call me Harrodutus Trevor!

Expat
Guest
Expat

Steel these days is a low tech commodity literally everyman and his dog makes it. UK companies would be better investing in higher value industries. UK certainly punches above it weight in other areas, think areas like pharmaceuticals. As for vehicle manufacturing most Brits preferred to buy foreign and moan when car plants shut down :). We import a staggering 49billion in value per year of motor vehicles.

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

I think a lot buy brands which have BECOME foreign. As for the steel, we ought to be able to produce enough to meet our basic needs for key infrastructure and national security, otherwise stuff may end up costing twice as much as it should due to tariffs etc. I would hate to be in the position of importing steel so that we could lay the keel of a new warship. Finally we are beginning to see some kind of trade plans albeit sector by sector from the US. If true, automotive is early. Jaguar/ Land Rover is v popular… Read more »

Expat
Guest
Expat

The reality is a modern warship without other materials would be useless. Take the electronics, most of the components wouldn’t be British made, most have never been made here. We’d need to secure the entire supply chain not just steel. That’s why I don’t think its that important anymore.

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

I agree geoff, I don’t see France, Germany, Japan, etc. selling every major company to foreigners. We don’t want that in our country either. I don’t mind some of them being foreign owned (although Germany, France and Japan’s aren’t), but for all of them to be is a humiliation (and also makes it appear to be more than just a coincidence). I would be happy to even own 1 of our major car brands, that isn’t too much to ask for a major country. Can anyone imagine France, Germany or Japan not having a single car maker in their own… Read more »

Expat
Guest
Expat

James Dyson is starting an electric car company and Jim Radcliff is starting an off road car company. Neither want to do it in the UK. Would you? Chance of Corbyn government are very high and he wants to take 10% of every British owned business with more than 250 employees and hike corporation tax, that would frighten me off.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Maybe we should offer them some Zimbabwean dollars to stay?

Expat
Guest
Expat

Sole. I don’t have a lot of time to respond but I will respond on the original thread where this was raised.

Helions
Guest
Helions

While this is excellent news for British Steel workers, wouldn’t this be the equivalent of allowing the government of Iran to do the same? Turkey under Erdogan is rapidly becoming suspect in its commitments to NATO and the West. This would give him leverage by threatening British jobs at home if things don’t go his way…

Cheers

dave12
Guest
dave12

Thats if Erdogan manages stays in power he lost Istanbul recently in local elections.

Helions
Guest
Helions

Only the Turkish military has the power to remove him and he has effectively neutered it. Like any dictator (think Maduro) the will of the people means nothing to him. He will remain until physically forced from power. Until then, he will continue his drift away from NATO towards Russia and Iran IMO…

Cheers

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

Absolutely, can’t believe this has got through. Presumably BS produce the steel for the new T26s as an example….so that is now under threat from Russian influence

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Julian1 – sadly not ,there were reports saying that most of the Steel for the Type26 had to be sourced from Sweden as it was a special Plate Steel that wasn’t made in the UK.So much for the UK Steel industry making ‘Special’ Steel rather than the more common varieties .

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

At least a friendly nation though…

Mike
Guest
Mike

Most around me have changed their mind and having voted Brexit they now wish we could stay in the EU. Most people I speak with seem to think we were told lies by Johnson and Farage.

Pipkin45
Guest
Pipkin45
Richard Williams
Guest
Richard Williams

The government has not thought this through, steel making is a strategic asset, if it goes away so does our ability to manufacture our own weapons.

Erdogan cannot be trusted, he has already displayed anti-western attitudes, even courting Russia in his bid to upgrade Turkeys defenses…. can’t help but feel we are giving away our last remaining steel plants

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

I also would have much preferred it to stay British, but at least it is staying open, there is even talk of investment to increase production. If this happens then overall this is a piece of good news.

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

What British steel making really needs is reduced energy prices and business rates so we can compete on a level playing field with our European competitors.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

The tension has been rising for a few weeks on here

Minor skirmishes here and there

And then Herodotus did the UKDJ equivalent of assassinating Archduke Franz Ferdinand and dropped the Bollocks to Brexit bomb

Now it’s turned into air, land and sea all out warfare

To paraphrase Thanos, it was inevitable

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

SS, you’ve kept your head down….keeping the powder dry eh? Me thinks these battles will be utter bloodshed in the coming weeks.

George, good for readership and site traffic, advertising , eh?

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

?

I’ve been heavily involved before but I’m retired from Brexit warfare now.

And oh yes it will be, and I’ve got the popcorn on standby

Julian1
Guest
Julian1

You may want to come out of retirement. We’ll see if we can tempt you with a carefully posted grenade!

Herodotus
Guest

Julian, I was thinking of asking George if I could be their EU correspondent. I’m sure that the website would flourish as a result!

julian1
Guest
julian1

don’t you mean Europe correspondent..

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

Liberty Steel, who were also in the running for this, are also looking to increase production in the U.K. using the electric arc furnace method. I hope they will open new facilities on the site of the former Redcar steelworks instead and bring steel making back to Teesside, albeit in a slightly different form. There is already a highly skilled workforce in the area, and the area desperately needs these type of well paid jobs.

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

I find it very hard to trust Turkey under Erdogan. We need to save British steel but need it in safe hands.