Britain expects to place a full production contract for its next-generation Mobile Fires Platform artillery system in the coming months, the Ministry of Defence has said, as negotiations with the supplier continue.
In a written parliamentary answer published on 9 February, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said the department was working to conclude talks as soon as possible.
“On current plans, the Department intends to place the full production contract for the Mobile Fires Platform in the coming months,” Pollard said. “Negotiations with the supplier are ongoing, and the Department is making every effort to bring these to a positive conclusion at the earliest opportunity.”
The Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) is the British Army’s programme to replace the AS-90 self-propelled howitzer and restore a modern artillery capability after years of delay and shrinking stocks.
The chosen system is the 155mm Remote Controlled Howitzer (RCH 155), developed in partnership with Germany and mounted on the Boxer armoured vehicle chassis. The weapon uses an automated artillery gun module derived from the German PzH 2000 system and is designed to deliver rapid fire support with reduced crew exposure.
The RCH 155 is intended to provide the British Army with a high-mobility artillery platform capable of firing while moving, a feature designed to improve survivability against counter-battery fire in high-intensity conflict. It is expected to fire up to nine rounds per minute and strike targets at ranges of around 40 kilometres, depending on ammunition type.
The UK previously bought 14 Archer self-propelled guns from Sweden as an interim capability to help cover the gap left by AS-90’s retirement.
In other news the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west!
Wonder how many they are planning to buy. See tracked is also mentioned is that correct? Thought it was just wheeled.
I can’t find any mention of tracks when searching for the mobile fires platform program, other than in this article.
Army Technology were guessing a figure of 200 to 240 for the British Army. That number is based on the reported total joint German and UK buy of 400, with Germany purchasing 160. I find it really hard to believe we will buy that many though. More like 100 given the current ORBAT.
Seems completely fantastical to imagine us buying more than the Germans considering they are effectively on the front line of any invasion and we are an island off the west coast of Europe who would be in a support position to any such invasion certainly initially.
Agreed that us having more than Germany makes no military sense.
“In the coming months.” FFS.
In the coming months after 2029 I should imagine, or the premature expiration of this government, whichever comes first!
Maybe there’s a quantity for Ukraine in this figure?
Also, isn’t Germany ordering more PzH2000 for itself and Ukraine? Why doesn’t the UK also have a quantity of tracked SPGs to support its MBT & MLRS groups?
Consider the German Army’s artillery structure:
10th Panzer Division has 4 Artillery Battalions on PzH2000 (a Divisional Fires Battalion and 3 Brigade Battalions)
1st Panzer Division has a single PzH2000 Battalion in the Divisional Fires role, and then there’s another in the Franco-German Brigade.
So 6 SPG Battalions, mostly in Divisional Fires or Armoured Close Support Roles. So Germanny already has a lot more armoured Artillery than the UK.
For RCH155, the first Battalion is going to the 21st Panzer Brigade to support it’s Jaeger’s who are on Boxer. We can assume the 2nd Battalion will go to the Franco-German Brigade, which is also on Boxer, to release it’s PzH2000’s to the Panzer Lehr Brigade. That would give Germany it’s planned 9 Artillery Battalions, although I wouldn’t be shocked if another Battalion was raised for the Gebirgsjaeger, who also have Boxer in their TOE.
As for the UK, it won’t be doing a supporting role, the British Army is forward deployed in Estonia, and we’d be deploying troops to the front just like Germany (which also is not “effectively a front-line nation” it’s 300miles to Kaliningrad, and nearly 600 to Russia proper.)
That actually (and sorry this isn’t meant to sound offensive) completely misunderstands the UK role in NATO planning. The provision of a Reserve Corps HQ and two warfighting divisions (not sure how) actually means that it’s the UK elements that would form a counter-offensive vs Germans etc who would provide the initial defence.
In which case, offensive fires are vitally important and one element which the British Army should be investing in.
How much the plan is the reality I don’t know.
The UK has to rebuild the capability almost from scratch though, whereas the Germans are simply adding a wheeled SPG to supplement their existing tracked Pzh2000s though. It makes sense that we would need more than the Germans since we currently have so much less.
But we don’t actually have that many tube artillery regiments..
1st regiment RHA 155mm guns
7th regiment RHA ( parachute/light guns).. will stay light guns due to role
4th regiment RA, light guns will move to 155mm
19th regiment RA 155mm guns
29th commando regiment RA, light guns.. will stay light guns due to role.
So that is 3 regiments.. say 75 guns.. so unless the British army is going to find a couple of regiments of gunners 100 guns is actually more than needed in present ORBAT.
Possibly due to the decreased manning requirements (2 or 3 per unit) for the RCH, we may see an upscale in the number of tubes per regiment! However, I’m not sure how it will work in practice, with a reduced crew of 2 to 3 guys/gals, doing the daily maintenance, re-bombing and camouflaging etc. So unless the RA also includes a dedicated supporting element, those guys are going to get pretty fatigued really quickly.
The UK’s MFP requirement is officially wheeled only.
A tracked RCH 155 demonstrator was unveiled by KNDS last year. The idea itself had existed on paper for a long time, but this was the first time it was shown as a physical vehicle.
The company has been quite explicit that the tracked version is being positioned for the US Army’s future M109 replacement competition, but as of now it is not in production, not in service, and has no orders.
I noticed that as well, “restore a modern tracked and wheeled artillery capability”. Definitely suggests a tracked version which is the first time I have read any such suggestion. Typo on George’s part..? Would be good if we were buying a tracked version, highly unlikely, but there has been a proposal for a tracked version of Boxer…
Cheers CR
Number i hear is about 116, 4 Regts worth plus extra for war when Btys may go to 8 guns rather than 6 plus spares and training, might see an Light Gun Regt re role at most, Each regt will need 18 peace time 24 war time, so 116 seems very likely.
Not sure where they will get to forth regiment from.
Probably 103 RA as it has a formed role and not just back filling the Regular Regiments like 104 and 105 do.
To be honest unsure, would make sense to have 4 Regts of RCH 155, just not sure if they will really do it, as i said my guess the loss of a Light Gun Regt or at least it re roling. May even the gurkas Arty geting it?. I do feel there will me no more than about 116/130 ordered at most likely about 96 as that would be the min to do the job and the MOD like less for less.
3 Regiments of RCH 155 already requires the re-role of a 105 Regiment.
1 RHA would go from AS90/Archer to RCH 155
19 RA would go from AS90/Archer to RCH 155
4 RA would go from 105 Light Gun to RCH 155
The only remaining Light Gun Regiments are 29 Commando and 7 Para, neither of which are likely to re-role to a non helicopter transportable gun. The Gurkha Artillery also aren’t forming their own Regiment, instead they’re acting like the Gurkha Engineers and Signals and forming extra Batteries in existing Regiments, so they’re not getting it.
That leaves in the Regular force, 3 RHA, 5, 12, 14, 16, 26, 32, and 47. But 3 and 26 are MLRS, 5 is counter battery Radar, 12 and 16 are GBAD, 32 and 47 are UAS and 14 is the Artillery School, so again, unlikely to re-role. So the only option for a fourth Battalion I see are 103, which is 4 Light Brigades Artillery Regiment (as said 100, 101, 104, 105, and 106 are there to back fill existing Artillery Regiments and the HAC back fills 7 Para and Provides support to ASOB).
Interesting Sweden is looking at purchasing Tracked K9 Thundercat to compliment their own Archers, as they have released in certain conditions the wheel vehicles get bogged down. Becoming sitting ducks, maybe we should follow suit?
Bought blooming time
So German defence industry benefits from the UK (££££) again. Wonder what happens in the mud/snow/sand, unless they also go for tracked version?
The barrels are being made in the UK. It was also suggested module section was also going to be made here
Yes at least the UK is finally making barrels again, but again is handing over profits and design/IP to German industry. Given that we are having to re-arm, the UK is missing out on the opportunity to reap the benefits of re-industrialization, and is just outsourcing it to others.
Its ok those at the MOD will just ignore mud et , not an issue, they will claim some project to study the mud/sand which delay it by years just let them order some thing then fix it like normal.
I’m sure Labour will put all 10 of them to good use
🙂 This time there will be more. 1 RHA and 19 RA need equipping, and hopefully 4 RA as well. That’s 60 to 100 guns depending on Battery size. AS90 Batteries were of 8, but Light Gun Batteries are 6 in peacetime. So it’s either 3×8 or 3×6 x3 plus examples for training at RSA/14RA, trials at the RATDU and some spares.
You’d hope they are at least 8 gun Batteries and MoD don’t do their usual more with less tricks but you never know.
The MOD is diving into a full production contract ?
So is this system fully tested ?
Is the Army happy with RCH155 as a choice ?
Who knows Sunak signed us up to this without any competition with anything else!
Odd that we have spent £52 million, part of which seems to be for a production line and it was then suggested we hadn’t fully agreed on the final product
Are you sure about “part of which seems to be for a production line” ???
that is what was posted on here on one of the articles about RCH155, I think it was from land forces or something like that
And how long until they enter service, the problem is we need something now, as a stop gap.
We have a stop gap, the 14 Archers.
Nowhere near enough of course but the only part of the RA potentially engaged at present is the Cabrit commitment and 1 RHA and 19RA rotate into that.
Meanwhile, HMG decided to gap wider 155mm capability.
Agreed, not enough.
The RA haven’t operated 6 or even 8 guns in Medium/Field Batteries since the late 90s.
Often on Exercise Med Man a CS Battery deployed more Warriors (3x OPV 1× BCV) than AS90s.
In Iraq in 2003 the only way 3RHA could deploy 32x AS90 was because 26RA provided >50% of Eqpt and Manpower.
The RA is in a peculiar position where it runs a peacetime Orbat and relies on considerably back filling for Warfighting. In the late 80s and early 90s the Batteries were equipped with 6 guns and an additional 2 were held in WMR.
As far as I know 6 Archers are in Estonia, 1 was written off, a few are used for training and the rest are used for spares.
Yes, this was my understanding, a Battery on Cabrit with the two Regimebts rotating into the commitment. But one written off? Blimey.
None have been written off and none are being used for spares. He’s a troll.
Thanks.
Sorry to inform you but I am not a troll I am merely repeating what I have been told by people who know.
Therein lays the problem! Spend shed loads of money to get more Archers as a stop gap? The logic then is if it’s good enough as a stop gap then it’s good enough to be THE gun for the RA!
So we’re going to order now and the trial the one we know about in 2027? So the point of the trial is?
Very good question, did seem strange timing even before we knew of this order for large numbers as examples already exist to test. As I pondered then I can only presume it will be to gain further specialist experience to spread into the adoption process and if anything is learned it can potentially be fed into later models off the production line. But still seems somewhat conflicting in reality.
This was stated in an earlier article that the MoD is ‘compressing’ the process. My guess is that the trials will run parallel to the initial production batch with with any issues sorted either during production and then retrofitted to units already delivered. It is not unusual to constantly improve an engineering product throughout its production life. Issues with production complexity, reliability or just plane ‘saleability’ and more can all influence design changes. I have implemented design modes in the past myself… design drawings can have very long lists of changes made over the years.
Anything major becomes a Capability Insert Program, not ideal perhaps but it gets something that is hopefully good enough to the frontline and we all know just how short of guns the RA is!
Cheers CR
I’m good with this. Going to war with kit that may have some quirks, “features” or specific SOP’s that need to be learnt is better than going to war with nothing.
To test all the things the Germans already have, as well as all the extras that ensure health and safety in case anyone gets hurt by the projectile as the it lands. I forgot that the drinks machine works ok for visiting MP’s.
Do you think we should slow the procurement down so we do a full trials cycle followed by production?
Aims to sign… Shouldn’t this be signed pronto? Or is it waiting for the April Fools DIP publication?
Agreeing the price and which components will be made and / or assembled in the UK, I expect.
The article got my hopes up for a minute with the mention of tracked guns.
Of course we need tracked field artillery to keep up with the combat brigades cross-country. The only reason we are going for this wheeled Boxer gun is it’s a couple of million cheaper than a proper tracked howitzer. The wheeled Boxer whizzing down the autobahn will be a magnet for enemy overwatch and fire.
The normal battery battery size is 6 guns, the AS-90’s 8-gun batteries were an aberration apparently. Doubt we will equip more than 3 regiments, to support 12, 20 and maybe 7 brigades. So 3 x 18 plus maybe 8-10 for trials and training would give as an order of around 62-64. If we still buy war reserves, as we always used to, add on 25%, so maybe 80 in total would be my best guess.
Do they have to be called ‘Mobile Fires Platforms’, what was wrong with ‘Field Artillery’? Giving it an ever-changing US army pseudo technical name or contrived acronym doesn’t make it fire further or anything useful.
Apparenty these buggers are going to fire on the move, so ‘mobile fires’ seem to make sense…
Let’s hope for 100 of them, don’t be surprised if GCAP forced cuts, don’t get rid of Chally3. Somone in the MoD will probably make the case that these can ‘sort of’ do the job of an MBT, if you squint in the dark, on a foggy night and hope for the best!
I think the idea is that Prince William comes back from Riyadh with a dollop of Saudi cash for GCAP in exchange for something….
To be fair I do not see the “fire on the move” bit being hugely relevant doctrinally. RCH155 in videos where it’s firing on the move is moving slowly, on very flat ground. More useful is being able to get on the move while still closing down, seems very quick in and out of action times.
When I first saw the video of the RCH firing on the move, I was wondering how they did it? As the vehicle doesn’t use any physical stabilisation. The videos show the chassis through its suspension reacting to the recoil as the gun is fired. But then fires again before the suspension relevels the chassis.
Subsequently found out, that the fire control computer uses software derived from a ship’s gun system. Where the ship being on water is constantly moving and the gun is fired during a momentary dwell period. The RCH uses a similar system, the computer measures the inputs from gyros, to predict when the gun will be aligned with the plotted target, then fires. This firing solution prediction also helps it to fire on the move.
Somebody clearly had their Weetabix when designing the RCH.
As long as there aren’t any sudden unpredicted jerks such as when driving on very uneven ground, that works. Which I suspect is why RCH has only been shown driving at about 10mph on a very flat field while firing. The bigger issue is that shell flight times and simple reaction speeds means that firing on the move at that sort of speed just doesn’t really offer much benefit. It’s not making you harder to hit.
I get your point. So far I’ve only videos where when the RCH is firing on the move, the terrain is pretty flat. Be interested to see how if it can do the same on terrain that is bumpy.
I think the capability still has its uses. Granted the idea of being able to drive to a location, stop, bang off three shells, then bug out in less than 45 seconds is very appealing. Especially as there’s no need to put down hydraulic stabilizers, level the platform, then begin firing. Where according to the blurb, Archer needs 1 minute thirty, from stopping, stabilizing banging of three shells then recovering to move. In the same time RCH can bang off 8 shells.The blurb is saying the RCH can either fire “on the move” or stop and almost immediately fire of a series.
I guess that is the advantage of having a firing computer which is always calculating the platform’s position in space relative to the Earth.
The thing is, firing three shells and bugging out in less than 45 seconds does not require you to be firing on the move. Not putting down stabilisers is more important, but whether you fire stationary, or moving at 10mph is irrelevant since either way you’ll be moving at a much more considrable clip by the time counter battery fire arrives at your location.
I seen a post that there will be 116 rcs and 80 gun tracked from korea
“The wheeled Boxer whizzing down the autobahn will be a magnet for enemy overwatch and fire”
And a tracked gun on its low loader won’t???
I would hazard a guess and suggest that if they “whizzing” down an autobahn or on a transporter under enemy overwatch and fire someone hasn’t done their job properly!
I’ll believe it when there’s one parked on the gun park at RSA and RATDU are crawling all over it trying to find the bv
Not enough, not tracked
Might be worth pointing out that Tracked is a lot slower and more costly to maintain? And if done right, these RCH-155/Boxers would be fast enough to scoot and shoot, being really out the way before counter battery picks them up.
They can deliver indirect fire on the move – allegedly.
Which not a very useful capability for artillery.
This Sunak deal ? I really hope it works out for the Army I think it was disrespectful the way the Army had no say in the matter . Has I’ve said before, I don’t have a good feeling on RCH 155 has it looks more like a make do job , and not designed has an Artillery platform from Scratch . Still one can be hopeful 🙏
We will buy around 100, 4 regiments worth plus some for training. I’m sure they know what they are doing but it still looks top heavy to me. I wonder what the life expectancy of the barrel is at nine rounds a minute?
What’s the odds on another Ajaxesque farce? For once can’t they just buy something proven, not piss around with it, and have something that works enter service in good time and in budget?
Ukraine has bought the first batch off the production line. So they will be operationally tested before the end of the year, with the expectation that by Summer, they will will see their first use. Though Ukraine are pushing to get them earlier. This will be a real test, where it will be quickly discovered if the system works or not!
If they order tracked version then they will need a whole bunch of transporter vehicles to move them around.
Bae owns and builds the archer, albeit in Sweden. Seems odd to buy a German gun when a British company have a gin design in production. Maybe I’m just too stupid for politics..
Gun, not gin obviously.
What is a bit of a told you so. Is that Sweden is buying more Archers, but fitted to the MAN 8×8 truck chassis. Which is what BAES offered the MOD about a year ago, before the Boxer RCH was picked. The system is still fully automated with a crew of 3, but is significantly cheaper than the Boxer RCH. Plus is air transportable on the A400M as a complete assembly. I believe the RCH has to be split (chassis and module), so it can be air transported by the A400M.
Yeah. as I understand it we went with the MAN because that would give us commonality with previous MANs we ordered because some politicians decided we should buy together with Norway instead of buying Swedish. The Volvo dumper we used for the first batch have gone out of production so that wasn’t an option this time around.
Cheers, makes even more sense now