The UK government has announced the deployment of British military assets to the Eastern Mediterranean, aiming to back Israel and bolster regional stability.
From today, “Royal Air Force surveillance aircraft will commence patrols to assist partners in monitoring emerging threats to regional security”.
Their primary objective is to identify potential disruptions to regional stability, particularly the transfer of weapons to terrorist groups.
Furthermore, “a Royal Navy task group is set to relocate to the eastern Mediterranean next week” to aid humanitarian initiatives. The military package, comprising P8 aircraft, surveillance tools, two vessels (RFA Lyme Bay and RFA Argus), three Merlin helicopters, and a company of Royal Marines, stands ready to offer significant support to Israel and regional allies.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stressed the urgency and significance of this deployment, remarking, “We must be unequivocal in ensuring the types of horrific scenes we’ve witnessed this week are not seen again. Our military and diplomatic teams…will collaborate with international partners to re-establish security and ensure that humanitarian aid reaches the countless innocent victims of this savage attack from Hamas terrorists.”
As part of a broader diplomatic approach, the Prime Minister engaged in dialogue with the Egyptian President, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, to grasp the wider regional situation and the pressing need to aid civilians seeking to leave Gaza.
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps echoed these sentiments, declaring, “The monstrous terrorist acts committed by Hamas in recent days underline the UK’s duty to champion Israel’s absolute right to self-defence… today’s deployment ensures that Israel stands not alone.”
The UK Foreign Secretary also has unveiled plans to facilitate commercial flights to aid British nationals desiring to leave Israel.
Sky News called it ‘RAF Lyme Bay’. I don’t know what the BBC called it, since I’ve stopped watching the BBC.
I believe they just called it a ship and left it at that.
I’ve given up on Sky as well. Actually I think I get most of my news from here these days.
Totally agree Tony – you know what they call the BBC nowadays right? – the ‘Biased Broadcasting Corporation’. Can’t even bring themselves to call Hamas terrorists! There is nothing British in the BBC today!
There have been rules in place for decades about calling people terrorists. It’s something like the bbc won’t call anyone a terrorist unless quoting someone. Or something like that. That is being unbiased. The thing with all the Palestine news is that’s where it’s happening. Ive seen news articles from Israel also. Don’t get confused between the innocent citizens on both sides and the Hamas that need dealt with. Unfortunately the ongoing suffering attracts cameras. If Hamas cared at all about the population it serves they would stand set up safe areas for civilians and areas they will only be… Read more »
Unfortunately not a chance, Hamas fundamentally see everyone as a combatant.
A terrorist organisation that should have been eradicated tears ago. Like the ira, the PLO al queda, countries like Iran are the match that lights the fires in the middle East, we stamped on Hussein and ghadaffi for less than what Iran is doing.
Hi MS, If there are indeed said rules at the BBC, then they need tossed ASAP as we need to call a spade a spade. Hamas are animals and Netanyahu is absolutely correct when he compares them to ISIS. Having lived on a kibbutz myself and seen first hand the challenges facing the Israeli people, my heartfelt prayers and best wishes go out to them as this thing is only starting. I believe totally that the IDF will try to minimize the impact to Palestinian civilians. The IDF only want to rid the earth of the Hamas terrorists that did… Read more »
The same IDF who’s sniper deliberately shot an American student through the head some years back for daring to demonstrate for Palestinian rights, whatever you think of that. The only reason a fuss was made was because he didn’t realise he was shooting an American. I certainly do NOT share your cosy view of Israeli political sentiments, have you not noticed the substantial Israeli street protests over the Govts attempts to trample upon democracy. As for Netanyahu he is a despicable crook who should be behind bars, he has been indicted for bribery and fraud and of course is one… Read more »
I’ve been of the opinion that the BBC is a political pawn. Google where the company budget is used, and it’s clear that the licence fee should be ended.
👍
Hamas, Iran and I deeply suspect Russia are all manipulating this appalling situation to their own ends certainly stopping Israel/Arab rapprochement efforts at the very least, with no regard whatsoever for the civilian population who are mere cannon fodder to them. Sadly there are right wing militant elements in Israel, some of course even serving in the Govt or advising it, who are hardly markedly better in their thinking and who equally care nothing about anyone outside of their cadre. Hell they even produce maps including Jordan within a greater Israel which shows their mentality, they simply don’t want a… Read more »
Iran is a rogue nation and must be brought to its knees with the same level of sanctions that the international community has placed on Russia.
I think western involvement will very much depend on how successful Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran are at dragging others into the conflict…if they can ignite the West Bank and drag Isreal and Jordan into conflict you will see a regional War that will inevitably suck in the west…there are layers of wants in this like an onion. 1)civilians in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel just want to live in safe counties. 2)The extremist islamists running Hamas and Hezbollah..want to burn Israel and ensure all the Muslim Palestinians are ruled by an Islamic state. To do this they need to… Read more »
They were happy to call Bin Larden and his cronies terrorists. Why not the Hamas muppets.
For Hammad, read Iran.
It is Reuters who do not use the term “terrorist” unless quoting someone. Its is referred to as their “Trust Principles”. The BBC has referred to groups as “terrorists” but editorial policy remains inconsistent.
The BBC has become a liability, a political pawn used by all parties, not for entertainment,sport but a mouthpiece for party politics. It should be privatised or abolished
Scrap the licence fee and privatise it and for god’s sake no mor stricctly come dancing, I want my Saturday nights back
You mean despite reports from the Times and even the IDF regularly using the term militants? Funny how those with an agenda like the Mail and GBNews however only condemn the BBC in such matters.
GB News called it “Royal Navy warships and spy helicopter” 🤔🤔
Let me guess an aging white man telling us this would not of happened if the British empire hadn’t left 😂😂😂😂😂
Britain was driven out of Palestine- that was its name before- by the jewish terrorist militia- which was their aim. The IRA tried that in northern Ireland too, but SinnFien changed its spots once they could share power
Many of whom became prominent Political Leaders of course espousing democracy and civilisation. Of course that area has been a political mess for thousands of years the Palestinians are simply the dependents of the Philistines (yup they got a bad press even then) the Romans struggled and the Ottomans managed to keep a lid on it to a degree because the people were united in hating that oppressor but that oppressor could get damn nasty if you stepped out of line so they generally just got on with life. Massive Jewish immigration post war of course completely set the clusterfuck… Read more »
The jewish unrest didnt exist in Ottoman era . Thats because the return to Judea as the Zionism political movement didnt start till late 1890s. Its not something that has been a core judaism belief for 2000 years like some suggest. After the creation of the Ottoman empire around 1300s which gave some limited freedoms and autonomy to Jews and Christians alike , jews migrated from persecution in Europe to the large cities of the Middle East ( Cairo, Istanbul, Damascus, Aleppo, Baghdad, Smyrna etc. Not Jerusalem or Palestine especially , although there were small ancient communities that survived or… Read more »
The reality is the partition of Palestine was a question that developed from the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire..both populations wanted to be self governing and to be separate from the other. You do have to remember that the Jewish Diaspora from the holy land was forced first by the Roman Empire then in the 8-11 centuries by Muslim tax laws and a number of Muslim civil wars..the final depopulation of the Jews from the holy land was from the crusades in which the Jewish population was either slaughtered or enslaved and shipped back to Europe….so it is very much… Read more »
We did pootle off in 1948 with a cheery ‘ tootle pip, hope it all works out chaps’ same with India ( that one worked out particularly well!!)… Probably best not ‘too close’ at our Colonial disengagement strategy, there was the odd little snafu with the planning …. That said, these foreign sorts need to take responsibility for their own actions too, India was an absolute bloodbath of of religious ‘cleansing’ during segregation, so many dead, they can only hypothesise at the numbers all these years later….. The absolute hatred for the Jews and Israel is absolutely unrelenting, but we… Read more »
Cannot disagree…the fall of Iran to the islamists was a tragedy for its people and the wider Middle East.
Why do so many different cultures and countries hate the Jews so much?
A single common religion binds them together, with the exception of the Labour left of course, who traditionally seem to absolutely hate Israel.
They all believe in the same imaginary sky god, ironically placed there to keep them controlled. Very strange like Northern Ireland. They can’t live with or respect actual real living people, and put a fairytale above all else. Maybe they all deserve what they get?
The reality was Isreal always wanted to compromise it supported the UN partition and two state mandate..it’s was the Arab states that refused the UN mandate and two state solution…the UK was in the end not willing to destroy its relationships with the Arab nations over the mandate and withdrew…the Arab nations then immediately invaded with the express aim of liberating the whole of Palestine ( the destruction of Israel)..it’s really only after a few decades of war ( generally losing) that softened the Arab states to accepting in principle a two state solution..the problem is by that time the… Read more »
Britain was not driven out by the Zionist terrorist groups, it removed itself and withdrew from the UN mandate because the UN had mandated a separation and construction of a two state system but the Arab nations refused to abide by it and in the end the UK felt it’s interests were served more by preserving a relationship with the Arab states ( Jordan and Egypt ) than it was by maintaining the UN mandate of partition and a two state solution against the will of the Arab states….the moment the UK withdrew its forces from the Mandate the Arab… Read more »
Not how Britain say it . After WW2 the violence escalated and required the deployment of 100,000 troops mainly conscripts. It became untenable so they gave it back to the UN to solve .
So yes the British were driven out by the Zionist terrorism attacks on the military and the civil admin
The British Army museum says so like many others
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine
Hi duker, there is the easy to swallow and sell reason ( the terror attacks and cost) and then hidden is the real reason, geopolitical expediency..there are a number of really good academic papers from historians that give and indication this was really all about the relationship with the Arab nations…yes the flow of troops into Palestine was a a drain..but that was really a lesser concern to the geopolitical worry of pissing of the Arab states that wanted the UN mandate gone and ending up fighting them over the mandate ..basically we did not want to loss our influence… Read more »
Same here, I watched a few minutes of BBC news last night late, totally Palestinian biased…
That is just so not true, Bowen has been doing a fantastic job of objectivity as he did in Ukraine. BBC journalists are at the forefront of such objective reporting which is why they keep winning International prizes for it. You only have to check their CVs to see how highly rated they are in conflict reporting.
Unfortunately, that’s not my perception of it.
The reporting I watched (to be fair only a 10 minute section) as I don’t watch the BBC anymore, was rather heavily weighted on the Palestinian side.
In general, I would agree their foreign correspondent reporting is still rather good, it’s perhaps the only arm ( plus nature docs) of this once excellent national institution that isn’t riddled with woke left wing biase and cheap dumbed down TV.
You’re clearly not intelligent enough to see through your own ignorance and biases.
Do you work for the BBC by any chance Greg🤔
I’ll wager you’ve never watched GB News, but prefer to just scream right wing media at it’s very mention.
Well, GB News is actually balanced, it’s main presenters are male and female, gay and straight and from both sides of the political divide.
Interesting, I listened to radio 4 on long drive yesterday and the reporting was seriously weighted in favour of the Palestinians, rather disappointing.
Check your own ignorance and bias my good man…
Koooooooh somebody’s had their cage rattled too hard it’s Muppet posts calling people ignorant that is biased take your childish abuse to a trainspotting site
Speaking of dumbed down t.v what’s going on in strictly come dancing this year?
Well Andy, probably a ridiculous mess of blokes dancing with blokes, woman dancing with mustached Transvestites in frocks, chuck in a few wheelchairs and that’s probably about it mate….
All terribly ‘right on’ and super BBC Woke…
Long since given up on it.
A political organisation used as a tool. And the licensepayer is funding it
Surprised the new Def Sec didn’t call it RAF Lyme Bay! He thinks the aircraft carriers are operated by the RAF.
Because he’s an ill informed cretin, a square peg in a round hole.
Tony my man that is the best decision you could have made re. Television 👍🏻
🏴🇬🇧
Absolutely mate …..
Hmm. Does Israel really need the U.K. help? The Americans are there.
The Gaza citizens need to be given a safe area to be in. Hamas should stand and fight. They knew this would be the reaction so grow a pair and fight. If they won’t fight stop attacking.
We are not sending ships to help Israel, they will be on standby to evacuate British citizens.
Maybe
We are also not letting a vacuum form in which the international malcontents can then establish themselves.
Shrinking our navy and pausing carrier operations in 2010 crates vacuums that enabled latent hostility to bubble up.
Pausing carrier operations was because some unnamed pillocks decided to retire ark royal 5 years before it’s due date. But you are right. It’s about gross, incompetence for which nobody takes the blame for. And it goes on, and on, until it’s too late
very true Andy. No doubt Ark Royal was sorely missed in 1982!
The harriers from invincible headed off a wave of Argentinian daggers that were after us (H.M.SAntrim in 1982 OUR FABULOUS PILOTS IN A SUPERIOR AIRCRAFT SHOWED That THE OVERPRICED AND UNPROVEN F35 might not be the be all and end all.using the
Thanks Andy. Out of interest, were you on board Antrim? I recall she took an unexploded bomb. Must have been a nerve racking experience.
Well that may have some truth but that’s not the way it’s been presented, it has been allowed to be seen as giving political and moral support to Israel. Though I.note we never get much back but hostility and even hatred from their Govts.
If ever there was a time to review where the millions of pounds in foreign aid goes to then this is it. The UK has thrown billions into thatt part of the world and the net result is, that it’s achieved nothing. We’re giv hundreds of millions to the worst nations imaginable, £200 million to Pakistan,a nation that harbors terrorists and allows the training of more to be done on it’s soil. The same amount to India, not an especially poor nation millions to Syria a nation ruled by a despot who uses gas on its own people. You couldn’t… Read more »
Send those £ to NHS.
That would be a waste
Let’s not forget that Argus is also a hospital ship (that’s still the case isn’t it?). If yes then it would be interesting to know how many medical staff are currently embarked. Maybe it is also anticipated that Argus will be a casualty evacuation facility for the worst wounded? In that case I assume it would be for Palestinian casualties since Israel has excellent medical infrastructure and I’m sure also has very finely tuned logistics to evacuate its own casualties for medical treatment.
Hope the Argus has its Phalanx and it would be good if such a large ship had room for another or a couple of 30mm RWS. The bow/front is a bit densely packed so obviously not much room left.
Could you also make the same Phalanx comment about Lyme Bay? Don’t the Bays also only have the 30mm permanently installed with Phalanx only installed if a deployment requires it? If yes then it’s at least possible that neither vessel has Phalanx installed although I would hope that our government isn’t crazy enough to have done that.
Maybe the p.m could say to everyone that the task force as it is scandalously called,also has a formidable three helicopters with it our navy is an embarrassment if ever we could have done with a ship like ocean this is it.
None to send anyway
Have we any to send
From a very long way away.
Using three Merlins an a couple of boats
Get British people out of there and wash our hands on that pimple that grows on the world
Tell anyone who wants to leave Israel to get to the airport.
For those in Gaza arrangements will need to be made. Bring your passport. Take people off the beach? Get Israel or Egypt to let them out the border?
Think we are doing just that with Egypt. Geez Israel is lucky the Islamist Govt was overthrown there. I’m not sure their future is as assured as they and others anticipated before this. I have a friend who’s son went to Israel to join the IDF, don’t know if he is still there, must be a lot of UK. Citizens with similar links as they will all potentially have dual citizenship.
They are essentially cowards so I fear you are pissing in the wind there. As for Israel the Americans do like to exploit us for political cannon fodder as Tony Blair found out with military cannon fodder to follow. Miracle we never got dragged into Vietnam.
Agreed. I think that many of the Hamas terrorists will try to quietly melt away into the general population in order to regroup and plan further atrocities at a later date. I just hope that Israeli intelligence is good and comprehensive enough to identify as many as possible of those cowards so that their “live to slaughter another day” tactics do not succeed.
Joining the Americans on their ever failing foreign adventures has made it clearer than ever, the dismal size and shape of the UK’s ability to do much of anythin.
Vietnam, Couldn’t afford it. Hmmm, familiar tune 😕
But our nation had forces impressive in size and quality not like the home guard style mess we have now. I’m for a u.s marines corps amalgation of the U.k armed forces into a united Kingdom defence organisation. It works for quite a few nations to have a single organisation.do we need BOTH the SAS the SBS? The fleet is air arm and the RAF? the army has amalgamated regiments forever and it isn’t a unusual topic.
Andy R, hi. You may be right in part, however as a nation the size of the military forces(50-60-70’s) were unsustainable . The ‘home guard’ foces style as you name it is a result of the concentric and runaway politic stupidity. Amalgamation of military hard earned skills woefully undermines each unit. Don’t even start me on FAA and RAF. I will always defend the FAA. SF are exactly that, special, non negotiable. I watched the Royal Canadian Armed forces ‘amalgate’ as you deem, wasn’t pleasant to watch. Which I still hold in high regard. Amalgamation is the Option when all… Read more »
Good to see we’ve got any available I think QE should be tasked with the same mission
Why?
America has sent a full carrier group in.
We may as well stop other things bubbling up elsewhere.
Sometimes an alliance is broader and more subtle than being aggressive together?
I’d argue that QEC’s CSG is sanitising another whole area just by being in the region.
Spot on – Putin may well take advantage of this Gaza issue… Russia has a history of doing such
We may find that Russia helped Hamas (through Wagner?) to distract the west from helping Ukraine. Hamas rockets & drones may have come from Iran, but they were made with Chinese components. Time to sanction those Chinese firms.
John wrote: “”We may find that Russia helped Hamas (through Wagner?) “” One of the Hamas videos of their attack on a IDF base has somebody telling them what to do in Russian. A Russian anti-establishment website, posted a video “Прикрывайте!Прикрывайте!” Среди нападавших на Израиль были русскоговорящие инструкторы. ЧВК Вагнер?, which translates to ‘”Cover! Cover!” Among the attackers on Israel were Russian-speaking instructors. PMC Wagner?’ At 0:06 of the above video posted by , we hear Russian words “Прикрывайте! Прикрывайте!”Former Ukrainian president Poroshenko has made a similar claim, in broad terms:The former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko told Euractiv he was “absolutely sure” that instructors from… Read more »
The west is suffering from Ukraine fatigue and the subject is getting a far lower profile than it was. I’d expect that the sizes of actual hardware will begin to decrease
The Russians are past masters of propaganda and misinformation.
John wrote: “”We may find that Russia helped Hamas (through Wagner?) “” One of the Hamas videos of their attack on a IDF base has somebody telling them what to do in Russian. I quote from an article on the very subject: A Russian anti-establishment website, posted a video (cut and paste the Russian words below to take you to the YT video)“Прикрывайте!Прикрывайте!” Среди нападавших на Израиль были русскоговорящие инструкторы. ЧВК Вагнер?, which translates to ‘”Cover! Cover!” Among the attackers on Israel were Russian-speaking instructors. PMC Wagner?’ At 0:06 of the above video posted by , we hear… Read more »
My only issue with this is that if Wagner and the Russians did train Hamas I don’t think they would have been so effective. The Russians are complete donkeys and Wagner are the biggest donkeys Russia has what could they possibly teach Hamas.
Others say that Wagner were the most effective Russian fighters in the Ukraine war, especially in Bakhmut.
The Ukranians say they were by far the most effective fighters, just go read Ukranian Pravda. As for Chechens well they are deemed little more than a pr stunt and have been of little benefit other than fighting other Russian units in many cases.
Effective compared to the Russians, that a pretty low bar. If effective means shovelling convicts towards enemy machine guns then that’s Wagner. They did much the same when they tried to take a town in Syria from US forces. Absolute turkey shoot. Nothing as sophisticated as what hams has been doing.
The Kremlin tea lady would be a massive improvement on the regular Russian military.
That’s one hell of a scary tea lady then!!
Because they had some degree of experience and maybe better command and control that the orc rabble?
Also because Wagner were, initially, all volunteer and were quite well paid they *might*have got some good people.
I still think paragliders is more Iranian tactics, derived from watching too many Bond films, than Wagner who would be just very brutal.
Wagner’s key advantage was their ability to make their own tactical decisions on the ground. But that command independence became a threat to Putin’s authority so he had to subsume it. Any Wagner troops that now return to Ukraine will not have the same effectiveness, because they will be under the incompetent top-down leadership of the main Russian forces, that we have seen fail again and again. Expect to see many more catastrophic Russian losses of manpower and Armour.
Agree
And any sensible Wagner in operations abroad….
It feels too subtle for Wagner TBH.
I’m sure Mad Vlad would like to be thought of as the puppet master.
Or the Muppet master
Maybe Chechens ?.
And of course they are rather pally with the Iranians now and need their munitions. It’s a matter of to what extent than I feel whether Russian manipulations are in this. Geez it took them only hours to come up with images of US weapons in the hands of Hamas which surprise, surprise they claimed were sold to them by Ukraine. Timing is everything here and thoughts of who does this benefit in the broader sense yep Iran and Russia in so many ways.
Iran is bigger threat to world peace than rocket boy and mad Vlad. Iran should be totally isolated and subjected to sanctions as much as those placed on Russia.
I wondered similarly if Russia got Iran & Hamas to act a a distraction from the UKR. BBC fell for it hook, line & sinker-airing little else on BBC News channel for much of the week. They do love to obsess on a single story too often rather than cover the broader news properly.
Agree QEC is ensuring NATOs northern approaches are utilised by Putin for any opportunistic attempt at sabotage or piracy.
The LRG South will be on standby to evacuate British citizens from Israel should a wider conflagration kick off. Egypt. Lebanon and Syria are not going to be happy with the terrible price Gaza will pay for Hamas actions.
Full American fleet in I don’t think all it ticindaroga fired cruise missiles will be used still, it’s good PR
No – she has a role to play in the far north and that is as important as the east med just now
True. There is not just one area for western carriers to be in.
More concerned her doing her job up north tbh dare we forget there is a far bigger problem particularly for Europe still going on within Europe that I see as an existential threat over time. I’m sure Mr Putin is delighted all eyes are looking elsewhere.
The west is getting Ukraine fatigue and the whole issue of the conflict is swindling.
Could be. The Israel/Gaza/Hamas story is now into its second week. The Ukraine war has barely been mentioned. More and more Americans seem to want to slow down or shut off military aid to Zelensky.
Hopefully less “swindle” and even less “dwindle” going on! Lol…
Given we already have an unsinkable carrier in the form of RAF Akrotiri, sending one of our carriers would be superfluous.
The U.K. Littoral Response Group being used for what it is designed for a flexible response to a crisis. Right now might be a good time for someone on high to point out to HMG that they need to the ships and equipment to replace these assets and the Bulwarks. For those who like myself despised Mr Blair he did a few things right, one of which was to re capitalise the U.K. Amphibious force. So when Cameroon took over we had 1 Ocean LPH, 2 Bulwark (3 RN), LPD, 4 Bay LSD (RFA) and 6 Point Auxiliary Sea Lift… Read more »
Cameron’s tenure as PM was a very dark day for defence but successive governments since then didn’t improve the situation. Sunak is doing nothing to reconstitute the Armed Forces and won’t. Just look at how slowly the kit rightfully given to help Ukraine, is being replaced.
The Conservatives used to be known as the party of defence but when it comes to said defence, there is absolutely no daylight between them and Labour. Both are useless.
I have no idea how the conservatives ever got the mantra of the party if defence. Same party arguing about defence budgets in 1938.
Me either. If you look to defence it was Blair and Brown that gave us our current fleet. If it was upto Sunak and Hunt we would be down to 3 men on a rowing boat. Happily rowing back on previously assured commitments. 🚣♂️🚣🚣♀️🚣🚣♂️
In 1998, the Labour Govt set a goal of 32 destroyers/frigates and 10 SSNs … it then abandoned those objectives almost immediately. By the time Cameron took office there were only 23 destroyers/frigates and 7 SSNs. … The cuts of the surface fleet then accelerated further. Both parties have rundown the defence establishment over the past 25 years.
The Conservative reputation on defence is based on WWII, the 1950s and the 1980s … the new Conservatives seem to be a very different bunch.
Yep, correct.
More like a coracle.pai ted grey and made from grass.
To me, the Conservatives are holding back on everything until inflation is stable and within target. Our problem is, trouble doesn’t hang around for inflation to be sorted, it picks its own time to flair up, so Defense is one of those things that, in an ideal world, needs to be apolitical.
Defence has been the sacrificial lamb for decades now. Even when inflation is brought under control, some other excuse will surface. Successive UK governments have shown little to no interest in defence; why should we expect anything different now.
Spot on
If they have shown little to no interest in defence then why do we still have the 5th largest defence budget in the world? the 2nd largest in NATO. 2nd in the world in soft power, and 5th in the world in hard power. While cuts have been deep and long running, I would not say UK Governments have not shown interest in defence. UK defence industries are also still top tier around the world.
Sensible comment. Seems to me we waste a lot of money; poor procurement decisions and poor relationship skills. The government in post, the MOD, the forces and industry are supposed to be on the same team or at least the same page.
And better still, the same book
Because we giv billions of pounds in aid to questionable place’s instead of investing it at home try googling where the UKforeign aid goes to and you’ll not be happy with what you are seeing.😡
Lots of Powerpoints, flowchart, ‘funds’ and objectives. Too many layers. Sounds flakey to me. I’ve a friend in Cork, retired builder. He collects discarded agricultural and building tools, tractors etc. and renovates, fills a sea container and gets it shipped to a known contact at a village address in Africa. Contributors share cost of shipping. Checks whatsapp photos of delivery No management fees, no politicians.
Foreign aid is to help prevent conflicts. And UK plc gets a hell of a lot more back compared to the spend on Foreign aid. I’d argue its worth every penny.
Because despite the size of the spend it is still the same idiots that decide what and where it’s used.
How and what we spend it on is much more difficult than many think it is.
One reason we pay so much for so little defence is contractors overpricing & profit mining the public purse, cheered on by the Tory party.
It’s also because we have a blue water navy and a globally deployable air force and army. And a nuclear deterrent. World class intelligence services and special forces. The list is long.
When the taskforce sailed south in 1982, People were saying two carriers? Is that all we’ve got? That was the first time that the size of the fleet was first questioned
We had five carriers in the 1960s.
As you say Hermes and Invincible deployed in 1982.
But then we had two more Invincible class carriers soon to join the fleet.
yes, but Hermes was retired in’83- ish ,back down to 3.
Because major conflicts are occurring that weren’t happening in the end last forty years.its wakey wakey time at the MOD.
Holding back to cut taxes for the rich mates and themselves. Defence is a lower priority than getting there hands on daddies inheritance tax free unfortunately
Depends on how long the next general election is.
… and Blair initiated the work to get the two new carriers.
Hi mate. A gentle correction, Points contract extension was signed last year. They’re some of the most important assets we have, they’re going nowhere as without them, the army does not move far.
Ta M8 I wasn’t aware of that at least they have done something, how long have they extended it for ? My main point is that we have cut and cut and replaced nothing. Argus is 43 years old, Albions & Points 20 years old newest are the Bays at 17 years old. What do they use next time. If I was a betting man this deployment will be to extract our citizens and possibly those of other friendly nations. Makes sense us doing it as we have Akrotiri next door, so can evacuate them there for onward airlift home.… Read more »
I want to say 7 years but unsure if I read that right.
We’ve lost Ocean, which was knackered, and the Bay, which was an imbecilic thing for them to do for a paltry few million saving. Assume, hope, the MRSS will replace the capability, though the LPDs have extensive C3 features too.
To be honest the whole MRSS idea to me is just a fudge which appeals to Politicians. Tell a Politician that he can reduce the number of replacement LPH (I wish), LPD, LSD buy just building 4/6 MRSS that can also support the fleet, carry out humanitarian relief work and Political Xmas has come. Yes you can build very good Multi Roll Support Ships which are a bit like a Swiss Army Knife and I would buy 4 to replace the Bays and Argus. But IMHO if you want to keep the ability to land troops and heavy equipment on… Read more »
I already had, yes. I can see the Bays being extended.
But I can also see Labour doing away with expeditionary stuff anyway, so this whole thing may become moot.
Also a need to rapidly update UK hate crime laws, to close the loopholes those terrorist cheerleaders are using.
What’s the betting that the ‘company of Royal Marines’ are probably SAS/SBS possibly ready to rescue British hostages?🤔
No. The RM are the preplanned Strike Coy from 40 Commando, who embarked when LRS(S) was due to go to Duqm for its first proper deployment. I’ve read that USSOC “advisors” are also in Israel. Too many cooks, they don’t need the SAS, they’ve enough experience in dealing with these terrorists. If there are any DSF people there they will be in addition to the RM Commandos. SAS /SBS may well have gone to Akrotiri on Standby for contingency incase anything else appears, and the the SAS Sqn in the UK on CRW duty and SBS MCT Sqn will of… Read more »
Ok thanks, interesting stuff, just a question, have you heard of a unit which is apparently called the ‘ Increment’, which is meant to be some kind of ultra secretive MI6/ SF assassination squad? Fiction or some truth to it? Thanks 👍
Truth mate. A bit of background, which is out there so no secrets spilled, if maybe not well known by many. The CRW of 22 SAS is well known, Black clad guys killing terrorists and storming embassies. Well, there is a lesser well known element of 22 that was called “Revolutionary Warfare Wing” or even just “The Wing” that worked with SIS, the official name of MI6, when that organisation needed people to mind its officers and perform tasks of a more military nature in dangerous areas. Their existence was one reason I was so pissed off with the Hercs… Read more »
Thanks Dan for the reply, far more informative and in-depth that any sites I’ve been looking at, you are a fountain of knowledge!!👍
Pleasure, Dan.There’s more to tell, and see, regards DSF and the Intell side, mostly locations and comms stuff, but this of course isn’t the place. 👍
I remember when I first started commenting on here a good few weeks ago, I think you was the first to elevate my level of thinking, despite my somewhat ‘ ratty replys’ you remained civil, composed & informative, not many people do that, a lot to be said on your behalf for it, 👍
I remember!! 😆 There are trolls on this site for sure, and the jury was out on you to start but you turned out just fine mate. So much to learn on here from folk farcmore knowledgable than me. Enjoy your research. In relation to SIS and RWW sort of thing, If you can, look up a video on YouTube called “House of War” which was a Ch4 documentary filmed at the Qala-I-Jangi uprising in 2001. It indeed showed brief glimpses of the SBS, not SAS as originally claimed. But of greater interest, if you find the original film you… Read more »
“Far more knowledgeable than me” bloody hell mate you are far too modest, no way!!!! 😂👍!
Hello mate. You’re back. Good.
I have to be, as you know I am not and never have been in the military, or the MoD.
There are a lot of “walts” out there and I’m never really comfortable telling experienced current and ex military guys what’s what, obviously!
Cheers though mate.
No problem mate, remember you are the site 🥷!!
I remember those early days mate 😂🥃🥃🥃! Keep reading what Daniele posts and your knowledge of ORBATS, units, deployments, tasks and pretty much anything and everything military will improve. I have learnt a lot, and all up to date and on the ball 👍
Better not tell anymore, don’t want to find out how effective they are at making people quiet😂😂
You joke, but if I got a knock on the door I’d consider it a compliment, considering I’m a nobody. No, I’m not stupid mate. 👍
Agreed
My dad’s brother Mick Reeves was a legend of the SAS,he spent most of his time in the regiment in what was then Rhodesia. Our special forces are everywhere and leave their mark there.everything they do is deniable. But, they don’t suffer from the scale of the cutbacks elsewhere.
And welcome too
E Sqn in Libya mate, deemed a bit of a cluster in the public domain but contradictory information in regard to how you get your SIS pax to speak to the rebels without getting into a serious contact….you give yourself up quickly and quietly! 👍
That is how it’s seen, yes!
Hi Dan, please be wary of what is released to the public domain. There are clearly some things that shouldn’t be mentioned.
Morning Davey. Blimey… Ok. Noted. Thanks.
My dad’s brother was a Sargent in the SASand said it was a media driven myth.and That SIS operatives would be used before the special forces.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the UK has ever had anything to do with Israel since 1948( excluding back room deals in 1956) or taken any steps to defend them or contain any threats around Israel ever and has frequently had arms embargo’s against Israel. I know the Lettuce sighed a dodgy deal with then on cyber this year (following a number of Tory ministers appearing in Israel randomly) but that’s about it to my knowledge. Israel has never been a UK allie.
That is my understanding too Jim. I still think this is a sensible deployment incase something happens that requires a western response.
Except in 1956 … but that was only a “fair weather friend” affair …
Yes, more the French than us I believe as well. Most if the Israeli cabinet at that time being on the UK terrorist list.
Can everyone please use less acronyms for posts on here? My dictionary is getting worn out, and I cannot understand what some people are talking about😭
Its so much easier and MoD use them as standard. Just ask. Which ones you after?
Perhaps we can rob the Egyptian mistrals from Egypt, or see if they’ll sell us one I expect that the special forces are already on the ground waiting for the intel.
Do we have some jets and other assets in Cyprus to keep an eye on our boats?
Assets are available due to Operation Shader.
Mt Troodos and the JSSU Ayios Nikolios for starters.
So, after two years of talk, training, disappointment and delay, LRG(S) has finally deployed! RFA Lyme Bay has now joined Argus at Gibraltar. As expected there’s no frigate or destroyer in company – these have become rare beasts indeed, although I was wondering whether Kent would be sent out, even if she’s not 100%. Presumably the LRG will sail for the Eastern Med as soon as the loading of stores is complete and the final personnel arrive by air. After the Gaza crisis is over, will they go ‘East of Suez’? As clear as mud at the moment.
Not exactly a major priority for the escorts, Hamas arent going to be wielding exocet missiles, plus the US group will be fully equipped with that type of defence.
It’s an operational deployment with potential escalation and a lot of unknown threats, e.g. Hamas sea drones targeting a UK ship. As LRG Commander I want to have my own escorts, rather than be nervously dependent on the USN and other allies. Pre-2010, the RN deploying amphibs without any escort ships would have been unthinkable, and it should still be so today. But the reality is that the RN escort force has become so small that even vital tasks such as maintaining one (just 1!) Fleet Ready Escort in UK waters has had to be been combined with other critical… Read more »
I agree, actually. While James is right that other assets, be they USN or RAF Typhoons from Akrotiri are nearby, the LRGs were meant to have a single warship as escort, and really should, especially as in this instance they’re not sitting waiting forward deployed in the Indian Ocean, but off a war zone.
A lot going on at the moment mate, so much more than expected and planned for when all the cuts and reductions have been implemented! Goes to show the folly of politics and politicians in relation to the requirements of the military in a £ led 5 year term! Shit changes rapidly and our political elite don’t understand, or care, for that!
Spot on mate. Defence needs to have a ring fenced, agreed budget by all parties, going forward. It also has many long lead costs that MoD can never plan for properly with these short term financial settlements the imbeciles at the top implement.
HMS Duncan has been in the Med for a few months already as part of its 6 month deployment
Duncan is currently flagship of Standing NATO Maritime Group 2. It was agreed two years ago that the RN would provide the flagship for 3 months in ’23.
Prematurely recalling her for a tasking that is not obviously vital to the UK national interests would not be well received, and will be remembered when future appointments to senior NATO commands are being allocated.
No. It’s because we don’t have enough escorts. If we had more then the LRGs would have been created with more than one. And if we had more then one or two would be going there now.
Sunak spent the night onboard HMS Diamond while the vessel was in transit to Sweden. He was the first British PM to spend a night onboard an RN warship in decades.
The mood music from the chancellor is that there could well be a capital spending boost for MOD as now this has lit off too things are looking very dicey. All very well Sunak saying send 20k troops to Europe but that isn’t in one go or sustainable. Then ‘what can I send to Gaza’ not a lot PM….some RFA…..no warships? It says something when 6 x T45 are more deployable than 11 x T23. Thank god PiP got going. Then we should send some more airforce……the token P8 (or two) is milling around keeping an eye on this out… Read more »
But what we are sending isn’t a case of that is all we have. It’s what is needed. We are not fighting a war with Israel against Hamas. Its not a carrier strike force. We already have a sizeable expeditionary air wing stationed at RAF Akrotiri. We have a lot of capability a stones throw away. QE could be redeployed, as could escorts and TLAM capable boats. More Typhoons and aviation assets could deploy. Few nations could do that at very short notice like we could. But for now, RFA support, ISTAR assets are what’s being tasked. 👍
That factual reply should go to Martin, further down, with a “drive by shooting” post a day ago along the lines of “is that it?”
I could not be bothered myself.🙄
Keep the faith mate. Always got your back 👍
A good report of the situation as of Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4E9My_KOYM
We need to remember this deployment is just a political message of support, like the US carrier group, hence no warships in the UK deployment. The Israeli defence force have far advanced weapons and far more military might than the men with ak47s and rockets that they aren’t really sure we’re they’ll head on launch in Gaza.
Basically leave Israel to deal with Hamas ( and they will in no uncertain terms) but for any steps further to any form of peace, the US needs to give some home truths to both sides.
Adrian the US carrier group has more to do with giving Iran a bit of a heads up than anything to do with the Hamas dross mate 👍
Sadly since Yon Kippur there have been increasingly extreme right wing Govts and as Jon Simpson stated just this morning, they have no interest in a two State solution they want a Greater Israel and Netanyahu has sabotaged any compromise at every turn. Just look at how Obama was humiliated when he tried to assert pressure. He would rather bring the whole World down than compromise and sadly where his supporters and the religious right in the US share a delusional dream is an evangelical zeal and attachment to the Old Testament where both think their State’s survival is only… Read more »
I am not sure Netanyahu is that convinced of the cause, I think his interest is just holding on to power by any means possible which means ally with any party possible
The population of Gaza are seen by Hamas as useful victims in the ongoing and racist/anti-Semitic war against the Jewish people and Israel. Hamas were vile to ensure the most extreme response by Israel, in order to make the international community divided and oppress that said response! They knew Israel would retaliate hard. All organised and backed by Iran, although Iran not admitting it knowing a US carrier BG would be deployed. All aided by Bidens continued “donations” of the US dollar to Iran in trying to buy back hostages and good will! Iran also hoped to get the old… Read more »
Bravo. This is my stance too. But I also support the Palestinian people having their own independent state.
Agreed mate, everyone deserves a place they can say is home!
Well said mate 👍🇬🇧
that all we can scrap together , two un armed supply ships and one aircraft. Second biggest defence budget in NATO.
See my comment above Martin. It’s not all we have, not by a long shot. Its whats required.
yes it is, 50% of escorts in port, two near empty aircraft carriers, 3 spy planes and only 9 Maritime aircraft. that’s it. One spy plane off Ukraine, one in Cyprus, one not flying. No Awacs aircraft in service , Please tell me what we have to send? River class patrol boats?
“50% of escorts in port,” So if it kicked off those that are able to deploy, do, or others, such as Duncan in the Med on NATO duty, divert. “two near empty aircraft carriers” So we send the operational one and extra aircraft fly to it. “3 spy planes” There have been 3 aircraft allocated to 51 Sqn since the 60s. “and only 9 Maritime aircraft” One of which has deployed. “One spy plane off Ukraine, one in Cyprus, one not flying. No Awacs aircraft in service , Please tell me what we have to send?” Are you aware what… Read more »
No UK AWACS in service, I know what is at the SBA.s The 60’s what aircraft would that be? now its River joint, we have 3, that’s it, Not enough aircraft to fill one carrier. The ELINT/SIGINT aircraft were retired the other year. We have no stirke aircraft, EW aircraft. CAS aircraft, no UAV’s just some converted Euro fighters oh and red arrows training there. And yes the US has good assets at Cyprus but not us, we do have listerning assets none that can fly.
HMS Duncan is air defence.
Morning, Martin. “I know what is at the SBA.s” I doubt it, actually, by your original post. In which case, why are you emphasising in your earlier posts lack of AWACS and lack of spy planes? Have you not heard of Mt Olympus? “The 60’s what aircraft would that be? now its River joint, we have 3, that’s it, “ My point was 3 aircraft were deemed enough in the 60s, Canberra, Comet, through to Nimrod R1. At the height of the Cold War and after it. 3. So having three now is no loss in capability there. That is what… Read more »
3 types, yes but we have just 3 aircraft, thats it 3 in total
We only operated 3 Nimroda R1’s during the height of the cold War. And RC135 is much more capable.
The u.k should get the cheque book out and go shopping for AWACS at the Davis . Monaghan base in the Arizona desert, wher ther is over a thousand aircraft of every kind stored for future reactivation we gave theUSMC 72 HARRIERS AT 16 MILL EACH how many will we get from AMARG for the same amount??
How does one fly and maintain them mate? 😏
I would be more interested in buying any good condition 100/200 series Hawk we can get from countries selling them.
Don’t worry our rishi has it all in hand. He, and his highly skilled ‘advisors will have a cunning plan (from Baldrick) to sort it .we should be angry and embarrassed with what has been done to our forces and saying we’re proud of them isn’t enough.
But we do have a mighty task force heading to the eastern med, two grey painted taxis and three mighty Merlin’s if any of our special forces are sent in to get the hostages out, they can bank(not) on the navy to come to the rescue
Andy. We are not sending the RN to war.We are not fighting a conflict against Hamas. This is not a carrier task group. Its not all we have to deploy. Its what’s been asked for. Just think about it for 1 min before spouting off.
Wikipedia (I know!) says that a company typically consists of “between 100-250 soldiers commanded by a major or a captain”. That article is not specifically about the UK however but is talking about military structures in general. In the specific context of RN marine companies is it possible to be any more specific about the number of marines likely to be embarked or is it the case that even within that more specific context the size of a company is still highly variable?
I had a similar conversation with a “James” a while ago, who seemed connected to the Corps in some way. I thought I had the composition of the RM Commandos pretty off pat. But with the Future Commando reorg the Cdos have been reorganised, and I’m unsure of the size of a Strike Company compared to the old Close Combat and Stand Off Companies in a Cdo. I suspect it’s smaller than it was. The LRG was also supposed to have enablers forward deployed with the lead Strike Company, from the Comando Logistics Regiment, 29RA, 24RE, and 30 Cdo. So… Read more »
Was reading a ‘report’ (cant remember) about hamas attacks on kibbutz, Irm Am,400 pax, I think. Anyhoo, a retired special forces or 2 (uk/us?) gave terrorists a bloody good fight. Saved a lot of lives.
👌Damn memory’s getting worserer. 🙃😊
Only read the report from the Kibbutz right next to Gaza. Ex SF, 46, boxer, with a pistol. That chap? He was taking on terrorists who had AK47s with a pistol and body armour, using head shots.
As always, well trained, well drilled, experienced professionals can make an impact out of all proportion to their number.
But these are killers, not trained soldiers.
The very one. Thanks mate, thought I was loosing it. But it restores faith in them that can 🙏👌👌
Ask the argies about what happens when you put conscripts up against a professional soldier.
I have yet to see a 250-strong infantry company – that is huge, given that a platoon (or RM Troop) is about 30-strong.
I see the RFA are saving the day once again as the Navy are unable to send any ships themselves. RN on the cheap who’s crew are mostly merchant seafarers. Its a bit of a cheek really considering their pay compared to their RN counterparts has been hammered over the years. Its time that RFA got proper recognition for the role it does and not treated as the poor relative.
Agreed
It isn’t the poor relation, and never has been. These are the vessels and capability that have been requested and tasked. We are not sending the RN to war. There is a massive difference between what has been requested and what the RN can deploy if needed. Hamas is a terrorist group operating in the streets and tunnels of Gaza. Not much a T45 can do about urban warfare.
I get our point but believe me I am speaking from a wealth of experience and I know the mood of the RFA and how they feel about how they are treated in comparison to the Royal Navy. No T45 is required unless it gets hot, but might be a litttle too late by then. Not sure if you are aware but only a few years back the RFA was responsible for nearly 80 percent of the overall operational tasking. I think this year it stands at around 67 percent. When the government announces the intent to send a naval… Read more »
If we are offering humanitarian aid, aren’t the two RFA ships well suited to the purpose?
The prime minister crowing I parliament saying he has directed a royal navy task force for Israel RFA Lyme bay and argus AND THREE Merlin helicopters,WE ARE UTTERLY PATHETIC,the royal navy task force _ two civilian taxis and three helicopters.itsA NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT!
Task force carrier strike group? We couldn’t strike a match
We do not need to send a CSG in the direction of waters off Israel/Gaza strip. Who would we launch carrier strike at? Hamas? Think the Israelis have got that covered on their own.
It would be better if we offered humanitarian assistance.
Israel are a terrorist country, no better than Hamas. Sunak is a WEF puppet, trojan horse infiltrator.
Say what you like about the Israelis people are already forgetting that it was hamas who fired the first shots
😂🤣😂🤣 You think this started last week, seriously???