American B-52 bombers arrive in the UK

John, Longtime, good point on low level.

Thanks.

ALCM carried by B52 in the Cold War RGR.

Despite the Voyska PVO’s massive defences the Pentagon estimated that 75% of the bombers they flew to the Soviet Union would still hit their targets, due to jamming, Stand off Cruise Missiles, and the sheer scale of the effort needed by the Soviets to defend the Russian interior.

EW has no doubt improved even more since then. Against peer enemies with a decent SAM defence there are B1’s and B2’s as well.

RGR you know full well there’s no experts here 😉
Essentially yes they are giant Bullet/missile magnets but they were never really designed to do any of the live firing jobs they’ve been used for, wasn’t it supposed to be a stand off missile launcher 1st, big ol bomber 2nd. I’d almost argue that they were never expected to return from there Nuclear missions if they ever had to launch them.

Think when it comes to nam it’s a miracle they didn’t lose more than they did it’s a big arse barn with wings.

I was in ‘nam, Cheltenam

Would be a lovely aircraft and like you say why reinvent the wheel but, surely best to use the F35 avionics and sensors if your building today, also I’d stick to the Olympus 300 engines from the late B2 variant which push out 20,000 lbf compared to EJ200s 17500 lbf seems silly to squeeze a different engine in when they aren’t as powerful without using reheat which the Vulcan never had and pretty sure it would kill the howl off and we can’t have that.

Nimrod was a mess. Shouldn’t been cancelled when they realised all the airframes were different and that they couldn’t be fitted with new standard wings off a production line. Had they ditched the Nimrod for a new aircraft the project might well have succeeded and not over-run it’s budget so disasterously.

Pesky Cameroon scuppered the Nimrod fleet? Learnt something today, LOL.

Maybe RGR is referring to the massive march planned for this Saturday? I shall be there with my B@ll@cks to Brexit hat on. Hopefully Her Majesty & hubby will turn out too….so long as he isn’t driving that black cab of his!

Funnily enough when I was a security guard in a busy shopping centre it was always the guilty we detained who complained / shouted /made the most fuss / had the most excuses!

Swap those words for anything suitable for your massive march and we have the same point.

Or, vote into power a party who’s manifesto pledges to reverse brexit!

200,000 marchers throwing toys out of pram is insignificant to the 17 million plus, who like others I know, are the silent majority just looking on sadly and getting on with their lives!!

Hope the weather’s good for you and there are no dodgy bomb aimers on those B52s!

As for Her Majesty being a remoaner, in yer dreams!

In another time she would have politicians from both Tory and Labour in the tower!!

Yes HF, and very seductive too. The US is upping the anti on this one too. Do they think that they might miss out on the chance of sh@gging us again!

Herodotus
A million
Like your 700000 last time when the police said there was about 180000
So if you are saying this time theres going to be a million losers there i suppose the spin will be 2 million

I was going to give a lecture on Edmund Burke, the great C18th politician and philosopher. But, if you google him, I am sure that you will find out what an MP’s duties are regarding the electorate. The fact that most MP’s are following their conscience is precisely what they should be doing. That is what I am doing! And Barry….where you there….I was! No, you were sat on your fat arse somewhere!

A leaflet through the door is supposed to counter years of lies from right wing newspapers whose only interest is the advancement of their power and riches ? One of the odd things about leavers is how they think it’s the ‘establishment’ and ‘elites’ that want to stay in the EU. Farage is part of that establishment as is Fox and Johnson. They want to turn the UK into the 51st state, aping the USA, with the destruction of workers rights and the removal of controls and regulations on big business so they can do as they like, regardless of the environmental and human cost.
As for ‘taking back control’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/28/lords-accuse-tories-burying-eu-powers-review

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/vince-cable/news/88746/vince-cable-theresa-may

The referendum was offered by Cameron as a way to placate his loony right wingers. He didn’t believe in it he just wanted to keep power. So the next generation in this country will suffer as a result of his dishonesty. It’s done for tory pms since Thatcher because the tory right wing is barking mad.

In any case the demographics over the next 10 years will see the UK back in the EU. We’ll all be wondering why all this was allowed to happen.

Has anybody ever met a non-uk national who think’s Brexit’s a good idea? Everyone thinks we’re bonkers. You have to ask yourself is Brexit just another example of British eccentricity? All my American colleagues think we’re mad – and that’s our allies. Still, when the UK starts breaking up we’ll see whether it’s such a good idea. “The Dubai of Europe” is what Little England will become. For the record, I am a proud Brit but NOT a little Englander

You obviously have a very limited experience with Americans. Let me guess all New Yorkers or from around there.
Almost all Americans despise the EU and genuinely have no idea why the citizens of sovereign nation would hand over their sovereignty to a foreign power. What confuses us even more is the complete weakness of Theresa May. Which is almost as astounding as a parliament that says let’s have a referendum then ignore it.

Elliot, you’re right on one point – I am generally limited to the East Coast, though many of my colleagues have actually traveled in Europe. “Almost all Americans despise the EU” – come now, that’s one hell of a statement. Many of them may be envious of the accessible health system, sponsored child care and strict food standards the EU allows us – its citizens. Perhaps there are some who feel threatened by its very successful exports of cars, civil aircraft and fine foods. On the other hand, I do understand the US frustration with European NATO members NOT stepping up and paying their fair share to defence – that is a legitimate gripe. Given that many Americans will (proudly) claim their ancestry to Europe given the TV ads for those kits you buy and the popularity of St Paddy’s day, I don’t see them turning their backs just yet.

Just one small point – Parliament never asked for the referendum, that is something former PM David Cameron did when he shit himself when he realized that UKIP (UK White Supremacist Party) might start winning votes. Like the GOP in the US, he would rather accommodate those nasty people in his own party rather than lose the seats in Parliament. Slightly ironic considering he was considered Liberal in many ways. UK Parliament and politics has always been split by the EU – this is nothing new, it’s just that its never bubbled to the top as an issue until the last few years.

Perhaps in the unlikely event of the US ever making a decision quite like Brexit, it would be interesting to see the result. Perhaps CALEXIT – would that be allowed as the richest and most populous state? Something which lost many percentage points in growth, put many out of work overnight and lowered standards to the detriment of the population’s health – would the government zombie-like follow the vote? I doubt it.

There is a very substantial difference between Brexit and what a few idiots in Cali call CALEXIT. The difference is secession (not exiting) is illegal and forbidden by both the outcome of the Civil War (better described as The War Between the States), laws passed by Congress and Constitutionally by the decisions of the Supreme Court. We already saw the result of attempted secession from the US it ended in death and destruction with America’s bloodiest war.
To compare the UK’s membership of the EU to a States membership in the US is a bit of a false equivalency. For one the US has a very short but easily understood written Constitution outlining the relationship between the States and the Federal Government along with the rights of the citizen.

As for why most Americans hate the EU? Americans have a extreme distrust of international organizations. Especially ones that have undermined or criticized America in the past. Historically Americans are more forgiving of enemies than a false friend and that has been Europe for more than 60 years. The EU is formalization of that false friendship.
On the fact Americans travel to Europe? It is popular because the choice is Europe, the Caribbean, Mexico, Australia, plus a few resort towns in South American countries. Europe is simply the safest option with the added benefit of most Euros speaking English to a degree. By far though when Americans go on vacation they visit the rest of the country as it’s large has every climate on earth once island possessions are taken into account and we just like each other more.
As for pride in ancestry? The ancestry kit thing has more to do with arrivals from 1810 to 1875 depending on point of entry up to 1890 not being allowed to keep their names. Then do to moving away from their families forgetting where they came from. Both earlier and later entries never had that issue. For example most whites in Texas are described as WASPs (white Anglo-Saxon Protestants) but many of the whites came from Germany, Poland, Austria, the modern Czech Republic, even Serbia. But they entered from the port of Galveston which had the policy of anglifying names or out right changing them if there wasn’t a English equivalent. Hence the DNA kits as intermarriage then further obscured origins. The thing is people who more easily remember where they came from remember WHY they left.
To conclude there is difference between liking European countries and hating the EU. One is a nation the other is a creation of globalist elites.

Most of them believed what they were told about the ease of trade deals, how much would be available for the NHS etc. It was made to sound like it was like leaving a golf club or local football club

Sorry, In the wrong place.
Yes HF, and very seductive too. The US is upping the anti on this one too. Do they think that they might miss out on the chance of sh@gging us again!

Given that Trump & Putin were in favour of the UK leaving you’d think that would be a big enough indication that it was a bad idea.

It might have given a clue to those tat are inclined towards the special relationship!!! Trump is a businessman….he will own us if he can!

I knew you’d pick that up but I still stated any way as you know full well what I meant.

That’s how votes work.

If not every general election will be void!

HF it was made nothing of the sort. Very easy to say that now.

How about I list everything Cameron Khan Osborne Blair Major and every other globalist puppet under the sun said? Same thing.

I’ve explained the reasons countless times on this very forum but you remoaners are all singing with hands in your ears! And then ignore every point I make as to why Brexit is going wrong.

So no point now!

As for doing something about it I quite agree. Vote! That’s what happens in a democracy.
Funnily enough leavers “did something about it” we voted leave!

Are you sure you’re not Russians!? They have the reputation to ignore votes.

Enjoy your day screaming and shouting on Saturday anyway Herodotus. Not sure if there are engineering works on the trains!

Do you not think a businessman might actually make a better PM than a plastic politician from Oxbridge or Corbyn from whatever corner he surfaced from??

Genuine thought. They get things done, make money, run things efficiently?
Not Trump as such but the concept?

What, you mean like Nigel Mirage. The modern day Cicero….’in a pig’s arse friend’!

Nope. Not Farage. He never entered my mind in that businessman comment actually.

But so typical to actually ignore a perfectly honest and Frank question!

So I give you another chance….

julian1-you are correct in that Parliament didn’t ask for the Referendum,it was Cameron”s idea to lance the boil of Europe once and for all, obviously it didn’t work out well, but it couldn’t have taken place without Parliament”s approval, they had to vote for it ,if they hadn’t we would not be where we are now.

Because regardless of the economic benefits of leaving or remaining (and I think they are better leaving) a country is made out of more than money.
Especially if they are a democracy or a republic the terms are specifically is called “Republican Virtue” or the “Civic Religion”. Basically what they boil down to is that government is the servant not master, that a man once elected will regardless of personal belief will do his level best to deliver the needs and desires of his DISTRICT.
Will you ever find this paragon of Republican Virtue? Rarely if at all. What is important though is that a democracy at least PRETEND to do as it’s voters wish. Otherwise the system breaks down and you get the kleptocracy followed inevitably by oligarchy and autocracy masquerading as Democracy.
As for members of Parliament being paid for Wisdom and not to follow around the “herd” (usually called voters in a free state) or pushed around by bullies (usually called concerned citizens)? Bullshit they are paid to represent their voters who sent their sorry hide to office. This is made even more damning due to the fact voters elect parties in parliamentary democracy which have a very defenite platform on the national level.

Well Elliot, if your country allows us a trade deal where UK can sell in cars, aircraft, high tech, banking, services and all sorts of other things that America does very well in its own right and with which we try and compete to some degree (a lot more effectively as part of the EU), then I will accept your argument. But as that won’t happen, we might be able to sell some Jam, chocolate, Whiskey, Shortbread, movies, EPL and fashion (whooppee do) whilst allowing the UK tax payer to be fleeced by Atlantic Health System and such like and for UK dairy farmers to be wiped out and probably our indigenous defence industry also at some point to keep it relevant.

It’s easy to be an ideologue when you have nothing to lose. Though perhaps you do have property, pension in the UK that will all devalue and kids who want to study and travel freely in Europe but now won’t be able to.

It suits American big business (and Putin) for Europe to be divided and conquered, I’m just glad most Americans I meet aren’t quite so imperialistic so have some sympathy…and regret.

Anyway, I bet the USAF keeps the oldest one flying ops so that they can claim 100years for the B52. Sadly, I will not be around to see it….though some on this forum will be delighted! All I can say to them is….make sure that you vote for your Euro MP in the 2050’s!

See my post above….the House of Commons is the House of Representatives. The MPs represent their constituencies but are not delegated by them! The MP’s role is to exercise, where possible, his or her conscience. A delegate argues on the basis of a given motion….MPs are not delegates!