Babcock International Group (Babcock) and Saab signed a strategic cooperation agreement at DSEI 2023.
The purpose of the Agreement is to enable the delivery of enhanced capabilities to customers by leveraging the companies’ collective unique strengths through offering a broader range of products, services and integrated solutions.
Under the Agreement, the companies will explore the development of the design of a new
advanced corvette of around 100 metres. The joint development will benefit from Babcock’s expertise in platform design and integration to create a new class-leading capability, and Saab’s expertise in naval Combat Management Systems and composite structures.
The new corvette will be a highly capable and adaptable surface combatant aimed at
meeting the needs of international customers. Babcock and Saab intend to market the new design to export markets worldwide jointly.
Babcock CEO, David Lockwood, said:
“This is the beginning of an exciting new relationship between Babcock and Saab. It recognises the potential to jointly offer a wider range of integrated solutions to international customers and builds on the strong cultural and technical links between the two Groups.”
Micael Johansson, President and CEO of Saab, said:
“We have complementary capabilities and resources, including expertise, technologies and market presence that can enhance our competitive advantage when combined. By combining our capabilities and resources, we recognise the potential to leverage each other’s strengths.”
For those of us of a certain era
“Be Pure, Be vigilant, Behave”
Or I might be the only one haha
Might be a bit before my time… Lol 😁
Good on Babcock. Expanding its portfolio beyond A140/T31. It’ll be interesting to see what they come up with with Saab amongst all the competition including previous BAE and BMT designs.
There is a big market for covette-like ships in Europe now due to Ukraine. Romania, Bulgaria and the other Black Sea, Baltic and Med nations are all looking for small, powerful littoral warships that can do ASW, strike and defend themselves from land and air threats.
There are already plenty of corvette designs. Every shipbuilder in Europe has a simular class of ship in its portfolio. Even the European Union is in the middle of desigining (PESCO) a corvette. Sweden has plenty of designs to choose from. It is a waste of money desiging a new one.
Some people don’t want to buy EUROFUDGE products.
Can you imagine the upgrade pathway for something like that or how long it will take to get into service?
Or the arguments over technology, leadership. It might have a permanent list to port it just stay permanently in port….
If the Germans are involved that won’t allow the weapons to be loaded…..never mind fired…
There are a lot of countries watching the speed of T31 delivery – let’s hope it works out – if warships and corvettes ships can be delivered fast there is a great market for instant defence gratification!
I agree, Babcock are making great strides in expanding their facility/technology management business around the World that’s only gaining strength from T31 sales. It’s a Serious and visionary view of using various parts of the business to expand other parts. If you have T31 and/or you have Babcock managing your facilities then it will give them a serious advantage in selling Corvettes and various other products and if you sell ships the 5hrough life management opportunities are there to be exploited, it’s something UK business has too long ignored sadly while others have not. It means they can offer a… Read more »
I think there is the EPC program, working on the topic. Let say in case it fails, it could be a good alternative
SAAB Blitzspear?
HMS Torquemada!
someone got it lol
On seeing the picture, my first thought was the film “Coneheads”, but I’m sure I wouldn’t be laughing if I was facing them for real…..
Do the gentlemen of Babcock and Saab know something the Admiralty either doesn’t or should recognize re next gen OPVs/Corvettes? Dunno…🤔😳
Perhaps. The batch 1 river class do need replaced but a corvette could be a bit expensive. For navies like the RN/USN range/days at sea is important. That takes up space in a hull. For countries with smaller patrol areas a couple of 1000 miles with 2-3 weeks at sea time is decent but won’t cut it for the big boys. I have no doubt it will be a great ship. Again it all comes down to cost, manning and equipment on board. Philippines could do with a few fast ships to get away from those pesky Chinese. Perhaps there’s… Read more »
Didn’t stop the R.N. and others in the war. 300 odd Flower Class, I think and a load of odds and ends. Give a Visby some extra space and range could be 4/5000 miles? Not global as you say but North Atlantic?
There’s nuance here though, the RN used the term “Corvette” very differently in WW2 than it is today. Today a Corvette is a heavily armed, small, short ranged surface combatant (usually with a anti-surface emphasis in the form of a heavy ASM). WW2 RN Corvettes where essentially Anti-Submarine specialist vessels. They where slow (because a) submarines where slow, and b) because if you make something fast it’s a lot harder to make it manueverable, which is important if you are sub hunting in ww2, and c) because it’s cheap), had a very light anti surface armament, but, for their size,… Read more »
Yes, modern equivalence to Flower class would be repurposed oil and gas support ship designs used as motherships for offboard systems. The Flowers were based on an ocean whaler design from Smith’s Dock of Middlesborough – slow and small but with very long lange, excellent sea keeping and an ice strenthened bow. Ideal for ASW escort in an era of 6 knot submerged submarines. These days a corvette is a short ranged full spectrum warship, optimised for littoral use in enclosed seas such as the Baltic, South China Sea or Black Sea.
That’s really interesting- my Grandfather was on (amongst others) HMS Okso which was an actual whaler converted for wartime operations. Not sure what role it was.
My mothers dad work on them at Smith’s Dock 👍🇬🇧
And were in service in several navies after WW2 and all the way into the 60s
Aah answered my question above. I think there is going to be a big market for modern Corvette class ships as smaller Countries start to see new threats.
Fair comment. My father spent the entire war on two Black Swan sloops Stork and Starling but I know that there were a lot of Corvettes doing huge work, especially in the Atlantic. The point, though, that I wanted to pick up on was about the range which suggested that a ” Corvette” wasn’t suitable for the R.N. The Flower and Castle classes range was about 3000 miles I think so it wouldn’t take much to get up to 4/5000. All speculative of course but could a form of Corvette give us more useful hulls than the Rivers for example?
Let’s put it like this, it’s about 3,000 nautical miles to cross from Bristol to the US. A Flower Class could just manage that, which is fine, because really that’s all it needed to do, steam along at 15 knots for a couple weeks, and occasionally manuever to depth charge a potential submarine. Today that’s less the case. (Also worth noting there’s the issue of endurance, a Braunschweig might be able to reach America fuel wise, but it doesn’t carry enough food and water to do it, it would require a support vessel to resupply, a River not only can… Read more »
Weren’t they based on a Trawler design.
A whaler I think, but that’s splitting hairs.
Interestingly before the Flowers came online we pressed actual trawlers into service as ASW platforms.
Not the flowers, but you are right there was a ASW trawler too, the Isles class. They were often used as minesweepers and as rescue ships on convoy duty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isles-class_trawler
RN 294 flower class corvettes, US navy even adopted 34, Canadian Navy 122, then there was the black swan sloop and upgraded black swan class sloop- 37 built, Castle class in essence an upgraded flower class 44 built, Hunt class 72 built as destroyer escorts, Grimsby class 13 built, Kingfisher class sloops 13 built, Bittern class 3 ships built, Egret class sloops 3 built, River class frigates 151 built. In short there were hundreds and hundreds of vessels successfully used in WW2 for deep Atlantic operations that by today’s standards would be at best corvette sized. So there is utility… Read more »
The Hunt-class escort destroyers are the closest thing to a modern corvette. They were based on a sloop design but with extra power for 28kts at the cost of less fuel, designed for dealing with torpedo boats and e-boats as well as ASW in the North Sea and Med, and had a full suite of guns, AA guns and depth charges.
Fascinating stuff. I got one of my books on escorts out for another read and of course you’re right. They did get some serious work done. I think Corvette is a dirty word these days for some reason but there a lot of smaller vessels about with 40/45 crew. Maybe a little later, a River replacement?
SAAB is a swedish firm, they and the other Baltic nations have long used corvettes for their home waters.
Nothing to do with RN as far as I can see as a fast heavily armed ‘patrol boat’ isnt for them.
Bring back Brave Borderer perhaps….
Age Trevor. Careful😀
Oh I have said that a few times on here, would love to see them dealing with Iranian intrusions. One can dream.
Ukriane, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Brunei, Malaysia etc are all potential markets as useful in enclosed seas.
Assume such a vessel ( with a current type 31 weapon fit) would be ideal for patrol and surface escort duties around the UK, the Gulf, Gibraltar and the Caribbean. Leave the Frigates and Destroyers as warfighters.
Forgive my possible ignorance but why doesn’t the RN have such a class of ship? Would it not be advantageous to introduce a capable corvette class to increase the number of surface combatants at a lower cost?
Range, Atlantic sea state.
Ok ok… I made a hoo-ha a few weeks ago about River Classes, and how (in my humble opinion) that name belittles the amount of work that they do. I suggested they reclassify them as Corvettes.
Next thing you know, this article appears, and they didn’t even offer me a few shares in the venture. Next time I have a good idea, I’ll keep… me typing finger to meself. 😝
There are specific differences though, Corvettes tend to be faster, shorter ranged, and more heavily armed than OPVs.
Hmmm…please explain why corvettes (depending upon weapons fit) would not be a viable option for patrol in the immediate vicinity of the UK/Ireland, probably portions of the Med, and conceivably escort duty in the Persian Gulf. Less intensive requirement for personnel, still able to show the flag, and may be able to provide a credible account of itself, if forced into battle. 🤔
Hi FormerUSAF. That is exactly what an upgraded River B2 could become at a relatively modest price and would your brief as above perfectly.
Regards from Durban
Short ranged. OPVs tend to be less lethal but longer ranged – like US coastguard vessels. Corvette might be useful in the North Sea or channel if our enemy was France, Holland or Denmark, but otherwise we need longer ranged types for the Atlantic and Arctic ocaens and beyond.
I think in a world where we had spare money, and most of all, people, then yes, in littoral waters. We are not in that world, and it takes money from T26 T31 types, and even more, Drones, which all three services are going to be investing heavily in. If a Corvette is primarily an ASM carrier around the UK, then it is wasted, as what Russian ships will be sitting off the UK in war that are already not at the bottom. The Med and Gulf seem more suited. Nice to have. Norway, Sweden, these types with enclosed waters… Read more »
The most likely replacement for the Rivers is T32 – T31BII
RN won’t be able to afford to keep both and that way the surface fleet, with sharp teeth, grows.
Something has to give.
Agree. Though I’d hope that actually the RB2s replace the RB1s, seems a tragedy to get rid if them as they’re so young and useful.
It is all down to defence budgets – if it goes up by 0.25% then there is a chance of keeping River B2’s.
The best I can see for B2’s is used more with reserves rotating through them.
So in time of trouble they could be used to backfill roles T31 and T32 have to be taken from to do the fighty thing.
I suspect plan was thar RB1s would not be replaced when T32 arrives, and T31 would take over Indo-Pac beat and Gulf and RB2 solider on as OPVs elsewhere. However Ukraine – and fitting T31 with Mk 41 VLS – kinda changes that. They will be more than patrol frigates.
It shows the wisdom of big platforms that can be upgraded to deal with emerging threats and technologies.
Even Norway is stretching a point, their Corvettes are so small (less than 300t displacement) that they’re really more Fast Inshore Attack Craft, than actual corvettes.
The main costs of a modern fighting ship are in the fit out. The difference in price between a fully fitted out frigate and a fully fitted out corvette is less than you might think for the same capability. For example the cost of a 1900 tonne Sa’ar 6 exceeds the cost of a 6,000 ton Type 31, because while Israel has no pretentions of creating a blue water ship it still needs a full fit out for fighting. Tiny corvettes (Visby, Buyan) might be fine in the Baltic or the Caspian but would have problems crossing the North Atlantic.… Read more »
Exactly this.
Otherwise we repeat the T21 fallacy where the upgrade path literally ran out of space.
Lack of imagination and intent as well, Pakistan had managed a reasonable upgrade of the Type 21 Frigate.
Cost may not be an object of concern for the Israeli Navy, courtesy of military subsidy from ye olde American taxpayers. 🤔😳
First military subsidy is to buy American equipment – that is why there are Israeli factories in USA, second that damages Israeli home industry. The value is 10-15% of total military budget.
For comparison
Military aid to Israel is 3B$ year.
For Ukraine from January 24, 2022, and May 31, 2023 US military aid was 46.6 B$
You kind of answered your own question there. The UK isn’t interested in a ship that would be tied to a theatre by it’s range. Lets do a case study: The UK has ordered the Type 31 Frigate It’s a nearly 6,000t ocean going ship with a range of about 9,000nmi and can spend over a month at sea before requiring a stop into Port. It carries a helicopter, a battery of Surface to Air Missiles, and FCAS/NSM for attacking other ships. It has a crew of about 100 people. And although we don’t know it’s exact cost, it came… Read more »
Did not realize the relative equivalence in cost between a well equipped Corvette and a baseline GP Frigate. Really is a continuum of cost vs. a discrete step function in capability by class. Have been participating on this site for a sufficient time period that outlook has become warped by acquisition and running costs. Mean culpa. 🤔😳😱
Tbf I picked the Braunschweig which, as corvettes go, is on the “Big and Expensive size.” If you scale down to something like a Visby you start looking at 180m price tags for corvettes, but since they’re also a third the size of a Braunschweig the operational limitations also increase.
You might be able to get a Visby to America (although I have my doubts about how well a ship designed for the Baltic will handle a North Atlantic storm), but you’ll definietly have to refuel it a couple times along the way, in addition to replenishing it’s solid stores.
Don’t say the dirty corvette word around the RN they don’t believe in Corvettes only frigates and destroyers.
Pity really as a corvette with just 30-50 crew members but the ability to undertake say 75% of the missions of a frigate is a viable option. Quantity has a quality in its own rights.
As long as that mission happens to be a stones throw from a friendly harbour…
The attitude from the RN as i understood it was that if they had to shrink the Escort Fleet down to 19 Ships they had to be 19 good ones,they didn’t wan’t to end up with 19 Corvettes 😯
We’ve ended up with 17 in fact, one of which is unlikely to ever return to service. 19 was way too few.
17 is only temporary, 6xT45,8xT26 and 5xT31 equals 19.
100m long, that would be a decent frigate back in the 1970s or 80s.
Corvettes have a short endurance.
Please ask those that served on the ‘Flowers.’
Great replacement for the Rivers SHOULD it have aviation facilities.
Sell all the Rivers as Corvettes come on line.
River supporter here, we can’t do and do we want to do gunboat diplomacy. The rivers show the flag, cooperation with other nations , cheap and easy to maintain afar, hence no aviation etc.
Flowers are not the same thing as modern corvettes.
Sell off the River class and invest in these…plus would give the Falkland Islands a decent guard ship…in my humble opinion
If it needed a “decent guard ship” you’d send a Type 31 and use the B2 River elsewhere. The idea that you need to get rid of a class because it doesn’t suit a tasking it’s been doing successfully for forty years (along with the even more limited Castles) is odd. Look at the specs of a Visby class, for which is this the likely replacement, and tell me it would be a better guard ship for the Falklands.
If you needed a decent guard ship you would send an Astute and make sure it surfaced and was seen on satellite in the area.
Then the Ashtute would dive down and be……wherever it wanted to be!
We used to have the guard ships, plus a South Atlantic patrol escort and subs going past on occasion and all this not that long ago. When did we abandon South Atlantic patrol? Sometime in the last decade, I think?
When we went from T42 -> T45
Scrapped T22 without replacement
Sold 3 T23
Basically not enough ships for the long deployment.
We will need to do that again very soon once the Chinese start busting with their ‘fudging fleets’
I guess when you think about the River’s or even the Castles would be in a lot of trouble has Falklands guard ships from air Attack .Not that I think this would happened ,but still 🤔
Visby would be no better! There’s an RAF base on the Falklands. Let the Typhoons handle it. Or the Sky Sabre missile system.
True but if your going to have a guard ship then it needs to be able to look after it’s self .🍺
Bruv, imagine having to be at sea in the South Atlantic in the Winter in a 600t ship designed for the Baltic 😳
Oh dear only Moscow could see a Kilo class submarine and a Project 775 landing ship destroyed whilst in a dry dock
Good strike. Seems both the Kilo class sub and Rapouchia class landing ship are both total loses.
The sub is the most important as it’s capable of cruise missile strikes. The Russian navy doesn’t have many Kilo or improved Kilo class in the black sea.
Will be interesting to see how long it will take them to clear it up. Guess it’s going to depend if either are repairable, the Kilo class especially.
They are trying to repair their scrap heap carrier.
I’d encourage them to waste money fixing the Kilo too.
Hopefully that will tie up a shipyard and money for a few years diverting it away from where it can do any harm.
Then when they have close to fixed Ukraine can hit it again – ground hog day.
The concept of a submarine slightly damaged by a missile strike does not sound very logical, though, since hull integrity is vital.
Russia says it destroyed the USVs that were also reported to be part of the attack. Presume their target would more likely be the sub and landing craft some reports indicate to have been moored in the harbour.
Either way, a thoroughly professional operation.
The convenient thing for Russia is that Ukranian USV’s are kamikaze. So no matter what happens the Russians can claim they destroyed them all.
“Yes, glorious Russian Frigate rammed inferior Ukranian USV, destroying it in massive explosion.”
Cripple the remaining bridge links and those logistic RoRo vessels are critical to keeping Crimea supplied. Each one lost will be a major blow to the land campaign!
Anyone else mildly (or more) concerned re the reported interception rate of 7of 10 Storm Shadow missiles? 🤔😳 Understand that assessment is subject to revision, and that some missiles could have been subject to fratricide, but this is still a frontline cruise missile, and do not believe the UK provided expired munitions. The few that arrived intact did appear to do a yeoman’s job. 👍
Sadly there are no ‘Wunderwaffe’ in this conflict – New Weapon Systems supplied to Ukraine have been very effective early on but Russia are not Mugs,they can learn to implement countermeasures etc,this works both ways btw.
Not at all. Just look at the hit on the ships in dry dock.
7 out of 10 is a pure Russian propaganda number. Given the numbers of missiles and aircraft the Ukrainians have to launch them it is highly unlikely that they are launching large numbers at a time – they’re using indigenous missiles and drones as lures, then getting a large percentage of their Storm Shadows through.
What’s this OSK 125m Polar Frigate proposed for Denmark?