Following Russia’s sustained assaults on Ukraine, the UK’s Defence Secretary addressed Parliament today, announcing the UK’s intensification of military aid to Ukraine, including long-range precision strike capability.

“Today, I want to update the House on Russia’s attacks on civilians and critical national infrastructure in Ukraine,” the Defence Secretary began.

He proceeded to recount a grim picture of Russia’s unrelenting aggression, emphasizing that the conflict, now on its 442nd day, has provoked the largest displacement of people in Europe since World War 2, as per UN reports.

The Secretary highlighted Russia’s cynical targeting of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure, leaving millions at risk in unsanitary and cold conditions. “From the scale of Russia’s attacks, it is clear that their purpose is simply to terrorise the local population into submission. That conclusion is the only one that can be drawn when you look at Russia’s ever-expanding charge sheet of international humanitarian law violations,” he said.

Drawing attention to Russia’s flouting of international laws, the Secretary announced a significant escalation in the UK’s support to Ukraine.

“Today, I can confirm that the UK has donated Storm Shadow missiles to Ukraine. Storm Shadow is a long-range conventional precision strike capability. It compliments the long-range systems already gifted, including HIMARS and Harpoon missiles, as well as Ukraine’s own Neptune cruise missiles and longer-range munitions already gifted.

The donation of these weapon systems gives Ukraine the best chance to defend themselves against Russia’s continued brutality. Especially, the deliberate targeting of Ukrainian Civilian Infrastructure, which is against International Law. Ukraine has a right to be able to defend itself against this. Their use of Storm Shadow will allow Ukraine to push back Russian forces based within Ukrainian Sovereign Territory.

I’m sure the House will understand that I will not go into further details of the capability. But while these weapons will give Ukraine new capability, members should recognise that these systems are not in the same league as the Russian AS-24 KILLJOY hypersonic missile or Shahed Iranian one-way attack drones, or their Kalibr cruise missile with a range of over 2,000km. Roughly 7 times that of the Storm Shadow missile.”

He stated that these measures were proportionate and calibrated in response to Russia’s escalations, and emphasised that Russia alone had prompted the provision of such systems to Ukraine.

You can read the entire statement here.

What is Storm Shadow?

The Storm Shadow is a British/French-built, long-range, air-launched cruise missile with stealth capabilities designed for precision strikes on high-value targets such as enemy infrastructure and military installations.

The missile has a strike capability of nearly 200 miles (300km) and is equipped with a powerful BROACH warhead, which is capable of penetrating hardened structures before detonating, thus causing significant damage.

Launched from aircraft, the Storm Shadow missile navigates autonomously, using terrain-mapping technology to follow a pre-programmed flight path, maintaining a low altitude to evade detection by enemy radar systems.

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George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also previously worked for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Tams
Tams
6 months ago

Fantastic!

Now maybe France can send some too?

I wonder what JohnskyinMoskova’s take on this will be?

Last edited 6 months ago by Tams
Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
6 months ago
Reply to  Tams

Wouldn’t hold your breath. The French have once again maintained their reputation for dithering, cowardice, appeasement and self-interest in the Ukraine war

Jas
Jas
6 months ago

Military support:Transfers The transfer strategy aims to build operational capacity of Ukrainian armed forces in strategic areas, including artillery, armoured mobility and ground‐to‐air defence. A large amount of equipment has already been delivered covering a large range of needs expressed by Ukrainians: Combat gear (helmets, bullet‐proof vests, night vision binoculars, combat rations, NBC suits, medical equipment). Air defence systems with a commitment to renew stocks, including: 2 MLRS rocket launchers delivered to Ukraine at the end of November 2 Crotale air defence systems 1 Ground Master 200 (GM200) radar to be delivered Artillery including: 18 Caesar howitzers already delivered and… Read more »

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
6 months ago
Reply to  Jas

As I said, pretty minimal effort for a country that likes to pretend it is a leader in Europe

OldSchool
OldSchool
6 months ago
Reply to  Jas

Look up the Kiel institute report on Ukranian aid. Then compare to UK support. Its been highlighted there and in some media ( eg Politico Europe) just how miserable their response has been.

Levi G about France being self serving is spot on – they have plenty of form on this – eg reponse in Lebanon after port explosion ( talk big give little) and lack of support to UK after Stena hijacking.

DaveyB
DaveyB
6 months ago

Scalp does have a few differences to Storm Shadow. That means they cannot be directly swapped.

OldSchool
OldSchool
6 months ago

And sheer miserliness! Recall they didn’t even want to send machine- guns early on as they reckon they didn’t have enough themselves. A self serving disgrace you’d be hard to beat imho.

Esteban
Esteban
6 months ago

Well they are French made missiles did the UK have to get permission first?

JohninMK
JohninMK
6 months ago
Reply to  Tams

I have written it in the other thread.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
6 months ago
Reply to  JohninMK

I shall hurry over there to read Airborne’s reply.

OkamsRazor
OkamsRazor
6 months ago

The obvious question arises, does Ukraine have suitable aircraft from which to launch Stormshadow?

Nick C
Nick C
6 months ago
Reply to  OkamsRazor

The BBC news report has, as you might expect, a picture of a Tornado MR 4 with two missiles loaded. It’s been out of service for how long? That said, have we a few in store we could let them have?
They also said that it has already been fitted to Ukrainian aircraft, presumably Mig 29. It’s amazing how quickly you can get something done when you are being shot at.

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago
Reply to  Nick C

Not the Mig-29. Either Su-27 or Su-24.
The Mig-29 does not seem to carry a large warpons load for some reason.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Meirion X

So I heard the Su-27M has the capacity to launch them and work has been going on in Poland to make them do so. Not sure how many there are mind.

Grant
Grant
6 months ago
Reply to  Nick C

Interesting* that the integration has taken a couple of weeks Whereas our F35s can’t fire them, or Brimstone….

Nick C
Nick C
6 months ago
Reply to  Grant

It is amazing what you can get done when you need the capability yesterday.

farouk
farouk
6 months ago
Reply to  OkamsRazor

OR wrote:

“”The obvious question arises, does Ukraine have suitable aircraft from which to launch Stormshadow?””

Duty rumour has it that they (Ukr) have been repurposing Su 24s for this role

Chris Webb
Chris Webb
6 months ago

The article doesn’t say whether Ukrainian aircraft will be modified to launch them, or whether a ground based launcher will be developed. Either would be complex and lengthy I would imagine.

Jim
Jim
6 months ago
Reply to  Chris Webb

If you ask BAE, integration of a missile cost £500 million and takes 3 years, Ukraine gets brimestone ( we did that ) off the back of a truck and manages to integrate HARM on a mig 29 in a month.

Suportive Bloke
Suportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

It does depend on the process and hoops to jump through.

You have to bear in mind that UK is the most safety obsessed country the world. We are laughter at by most of our continental neighbours,

Everyone is terrified of the Corporate Manslaughter Act which applies to defence H&S as well.

To have those processes in place costs fortunes in all walks of life.

Unfortunately the approach generally makes safety worse as nobody dares to think or innovate. And innovation costs fortunes.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago

It did always make me laugh that our approach to health and safety was blamed on the EU….it’s all pure home grown. It’s not just about potentially stifling innovation due to risk aversion..it also adds a whole layer of operating costs to make sure you have the right risk assessments..policies and procedures etc…as well as perversely increasing risk of harm in complex systems with lots of organisations…..don’t get me wrong l love a good risk assessment if it’s done on something that is high risk and aids though about how you mitigate risk ( purposeful risk assessment that has a… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by Jonathan
Gunbuster
Gunbuster
6 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I have sat in on Platform Risk management meetings…Its 5 days I will never get back. Probability matrix against lives lost during an accident.
Aircraft are a nightmare to do. Something falls off and how many people will it kill when it lands etc…
Its done for a good reason in peace time and if you blag it you end up on the receiving end of a Haddon Cave enquiry.

In wartime you still assess the risk but you are willing to accept a lower threshold.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

I love a good probability vs harm matrix….one of my jobs was to stop people constantly miss use them and inflate the risk or reduce the risk depending on need…I’ve seen so many people put up risks of 25….so your going to kill some people every day then ? Well no once a month ? No. Once a year…maybe…every five years or so…yes defo…well it’s a risk of 5 then….and not even on the corporate Risk register….I’ve then had arguments the other way as well. Trying to get people to understand you have to change your risk appetite depending on… Read more »

Steve
Steve
6 months ago

Is that a bad thing? I never got people being critical of laws designed to ensure companies protect us as either their employees or consumers. I understand newspapers reporting on them as they are all owned by overseas based mega rich, who would love to have Chinese level health and safety in the UK, but don’t get normal people doing it.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Steve

I’m not saying I want Chinese or Indian H&S. Even HSE didn’t want CDM 2015…..yes really! The issue is that the system is so draconian that it stifles growth and innovation. Managers only have so much bandwidth if they are spending a good proportion of it on H&S then they can’t spend it on other things. The irony is that, in my businesses, the largely pointless paperwork soaks up money that would be better used to invest in plant/machinery/ equipment that would improve the working environment of workers. Resources are finite. Our H&S committee which is largely workers and foremen… Read more »

Steve
Steve
6 months ago

Most laws are introduced in response to people getting hurt, they are rarely preventative, almost always reactive. For whatever reason companies in the UK are far more profit focused than in Europe, and we kinda need these laws. I agree often laws overreact to an issue but to me that’s better than under reacting and people getting hurt or worse. Plus I suspect like data protection, a lot of cost cutting / lazyness is blamed on h&s when it actually has nothing to do with it. So tired people blaming data protection for not doing something when the law doesn’t… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by Steve
Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago
Reply to  Steve

As someone who’s done a lot of management of harm related risks and who’s job it is to protect people from harm, I completely agree with supportive..there is far to much pointless box ticking that is more about required arse covering that actual management and reduction of risk to people.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

To be fair we had adapted Brimstone off of the same basic launcher on a floating platform so I doubt putting it on a truck took that long. HARM like certain other missiles had been tested to a degree on legacy Russian built aircraft for some time even if much of the work didn’t reach operational level. Tbf most of the efforts for Ukraine are jury rigged in a manner often using laptops, that would hardly be accepted by the MoD from Bae as would not the prototype test rigs used for Brimstone as proof of concept. But like in… Read more »

Suportive Bloke
Suportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Bear in mind that most of the early launches will have been done from land fixed launcher racks anyway.

So there will have been a land based launcher design that has been tested.

On ranges things are very often launched from laptops in early trials. Given that, as a generality, the ‘consoles’ went from being bespoke electronics to a cabinet with a PC in it to screen, keyboard, mouse connected to a blade server a powerful laptop will quite easily do the same job.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago

The Ukrainian Brimstone launcher is the exact same MBDA trials rack that has been used in multiple trials in the UK…

It can be clearly seen in the Brimstone 3 trials video from 4 years ago…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV63L23cars

And Maritime Brimstone trials from 7 years ago…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1cS8zhweq4

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Yup, I’m sure we gave them the rack or the designs for the rack and they made a few more.

Ukrainians are great at metal work.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

Exactly BAE cost is exuberant vs can do reality of fighting a war. There is no justification to massive costs to weapons integration when for the most part the weapons characteristics such as payload, weight, drag, release from aircraft forces etc are well known.

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I’m sure BAE could figure out how to expedite the process if it was at risk of losing capital to Russian bombs every day the war went on.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Tomartyr

Precisely, doing things in an emergency are very different to doing them for a proposed platform in peacetime whatever one thinks about those ‘peacetime’ timescales of course. As an aside but is I think relevant to the concept, it’s very interesting to read about Britains strategic approach to exploiting the jet engine in the war (ignoring all the political/engineering actual clusterf—ks along the way) even in 1942. There were 3 plans for development 2 interestingly I feel aimed at exploitation post war in military and civil service aviation, leaving the Whittle centrifugal design to be the chosen power plant for… Read more »

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

Storm Shadow was originally designed as a stand off missile for nuclear warheads. This has been pretty much ignored over past 20 years. How much of that 500m was due to the various complexities involved in adding a nuclear capable missile to the Typhoon. It was expensive enough to make the Germans decide not to bother.

Only an idiot would put all their eggs in an American owned and managed basket.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

The Cold War need to get a nuc into a protected bunker was the driver for this.

That was what the 2nd stage charge was supposed to be.

Tornado was nuclear cleared?

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago

Tornado was indeed nuclear cleared. It carried the WE177 until the mid 90s.
Tornado still is used as Germany’s nuclear weapon delivery aircraft. This will be replaced by the F35.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I said that down the thread?

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Ok. The tornado was nuclear cleared?
Looks like a question😂😂😂😂
I was a bit surprised when reading u post that

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Storm Shadow was NEVER designed for nuclear warheads.

The programme requirement name was CASOM.

CONVENTIONALLY Armed Standoff Missile.

It has been ‘ignored’ for the simple reason that its nonsense…

DaveyB
DaveyB
6 months ago
Reply to  Jim

The main crux is who carries the risk. Normally it’s worked out between the platform design authority and the weapon’s design authority. It can be a long drawn process on the percentage that each side covers. This all came about due to the Hardin-Cave Nimrod Enquiries and the fallout following the implementation of the recommendations. Basically The MoD removed all its design authority for aircraft and placed it in the hands of the manufacturer. The knock on from this is it takes significantly longer to get anything done, especially if it alters a major characteristic of the aircraft, However, this… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by DaveyB
Gunbuster
Gunbuster
6 months ago
Reply to  DaveyB

All of the above …100%.
I have sat in on Platform Risk meetings with a Prime Contractor.
There should be a special place reserved in hell for the person who put my name forward to attend those meetings on behalf of UKMOD/Govt and the person conducting the meeting.

David Barry
David Barry
6 months ago

According to news channels and informed sources, Polish donated Mig29s have been integrated with the weapon; now give Russia the good news.

Sean
Sean
6 months ago

Question, is it the export version which has range of >250km, or the >560km* version we have?

Working off Ben’s text…

“range of over 2,000km. Roughly 7 times that of the Storm Shadow missile”

it looks like it’s the export version.

* lo-lo attack profile

Geneticengineer
Geneticengineer
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

I’ve always wondered what the real range of stormshadow is. A TLAM has 1000 mile rang roughly, SS is a bit smaller with a range of >250 km…. very vague. Asked an RAF bloke about it and got a vague answer too

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago

It’s quite a bit further than 250km. Depends on launch height, flight profile but it’s more. I don’t think u will find an exact answer.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Here’s the thing…

Compare the specs on Tomahawk and Storm Shadow…

Both weight 2,900lbs…

Both have similar warhead weights…(Tomahawk 1,000lbs, Storm Shadow 990lbs).

They’re similar size, similar diameter, Storm Shadow is 1.5ft shorter but has more volume due to its shape…

Storm Shadow has a more efficient turbofan engine than Tomahawk…

Storm Shadow has more lift from its body and a greater wingspan…

Tomahawk has at least 1,300km range…

Now discuss….

Greg Smith
Greg Smith
6 months ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

I had exactly the same discussion with the CSE when working at mbda on the foas project 20 ish years ago.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago

It’s exact range will be classified.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago

Perhaps he thought you were JohninMK

Andrew D
Andrew D
6 months ago

Are we pushing the Boat out a little with this decision ,did have to ask USA ?

Jim
Jim
6 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

I’m pretty sure if we asked sleepy Joe he would say know. Will be just the same as tanks, in a month Ukraine will have JASSM and Scalp EG.

Sean
Sean
6 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

The Americans knew in advance, they weren’t perturbed by it.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

Hmmm…an intriguing concept…this pattern has been repeated often enough during this conflict that the relevant parties (Russians and ChiComs) must absolutely realize that the UK and US are working hand in glove (or as a stalking horse, or bad cop-good cop) or whatever vernacular terminology is preferred. Suspected this as early as the deployment of ATGMs, but the pattern has been replicated multiple times w/ artillery, MBTs, etc. This facilitates counter escalation by the allies, w/out immediately provoking a potentially catastrophic confrontation between the eight hundred guerillas, if some measure truly crosses a Russian red line. Confidently predict that UK… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
6 months ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

. eight hundred pound guerillas…🙄

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
6 months ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

…gorillas…🤣😂😁🙄

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I don’t know what more terrifying! 800 guerrillas or an 800lb gorillas

Last edited 6 months ago by Monkey spanker
FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
6 months ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Actually managed to amuse myself w/ that post! 😂😁

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Being able to laugh at yourself makes a happy person

Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I doubt the survivability of Hawks in contested modern airspace.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
6 months ago
Reply to  Frank62

Currently perhaps, but who can confidently predict the remaining capability of the Orcs after another 1-3 years of attrition warfare, based upon existing trends? Mad Vlad will not negotiate or capitulate, but the Orcs may be equipped w/ bows and arrows, spears and rocks by that time.🤔😳😉

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

I bet the Ruskies are having kittens. Storm Shadows means their bridge and links to Crimea are now well and truly within range and easy game. Are the Russian defences capable of intercepting them? Who knows?- probably if Moskva or any of the conduct of the war to date is an indication then the Russfascists are likely to fail. I wonder if this announcement has been made just prior to Storm Shadows operational deployment in Ukraine?

Sean
Sean
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I suspect the Ukrainians will probably adopt the same tactics at the Russians, ie fire them from aircraft flying behind their lines to keep them safe from enemy air-defences. With the reduced range of the export version of Storm Shadow, the Kersch Bridge will sadly be out of range until they can liberate the rest of Kherson oblast.
Still, plenty of other targets for them to be used against.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

Have to be careful taking out the Kerch Bridge, as we don’t want to block access for ships into the Asov with any debris. Taking out the bridge approaches should be fine.

Paul T
Paul T
6 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Sleepy Joe is Irish so he likes to tell everyone and hates the English, and so hopefully if we did consult the Americans it was through their military and not the current Administration 😘 maybe Ben requested the Welsh speak to them first

farouk
farouk
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Current New York Post headline:
https://i.postimg.cc/bwgVP7rj/9621.jpg

Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Those accusations will no doubt be properly investigated. But never forget the praise Trump heaped on Putin & the posibility that Putin has leverage over him. I’m not a fan of either Trump onor Biden, but Trump has been most pro Moscow & IMO unhinged from the begining..

Last edited 6 months ago by Frank62
Tomartyr
Tomartyr
6 months ago
Reply to  Frank62

It’s not really a case of one or the other, the fact that Trump was worse on many ways doesn’t excuse Biden for anything.

Hopefully the US people have other choices at the next election.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
6 months ago
Reply to  Tomartyr

🤞🙏

AlexS
AlexS
6 months ago
Reply to  Frank62

If Trump is more pro Moscow then you might want to check when Crimea was conquered and when the remaining Ukraine was invaded.
Hint: It was not with Trump.

Obama: Crimea
Trump: first supply of lethal ammunition to Ukraine
Biden: invasion of remaining Ukraine.

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
6 months ago
Reply to  AlexS

Er … No. Causation is not correlation. To use that logic you’ve listed, Trump was in office during the Covid19 pandemic, therefore he was responsible for Covid. Trump was and is an avid admirer and stooge of Putin, the idea that he would somehow ‘stand up’ to Putin is so laughable on every level. Trump only stands up to and tries to intimidate vulnerable women and the sick and disabled. Even today he refused to describe Putin as a war criminal and offer support for Ukraine winning. You can bet your house that Trump will withdraw virtually all US aid… Read more »

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
6 months ago
Reply to  Frank62

Trump was dangerous and going to start a war we were being warned before the US Election.

Uh no… it was Biden’s and the Democrat’s plan all along.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Oh so it’s BIden who started the Ukraine war then is that what you are saying? Personally I’m waiting for Trumps 24 hour peace plan works out I’m sure it will go as well as the Middle East, Iranian and North Korean ones went. And I’m sure for ing Ukraine to capitulate (which is his only way of accomplishing that promise) will work out brilliantly in encouraging his following conflict with China although at least by then he will know how to capitulate while no doubt telling his fanboys they have won again.

Sean
Sean
6 months ago
Reply to  farouk

I doubt US newspapers are any more reliable in reporting the news than U.K. ones…

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

Especially ones owned by Murdoch.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

‘Spect many of you aware of where the family name actually originates, though:- William Biden Birth: 20 Dec 1787 Westbourne, Chichester District, West Sussex, England Death: 24 Nov 1849 (aged 61) Baltimore County, Maryland, USA Burial: Loudon Park Cemetery, Baltimore, Baltimore City, Maryland, USA Plot: O Memorial #: 120263789 Bio: Great-great-great grandfather of former US Vice President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Contributor: RMW (47125467) President-Elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. Contributor: SheilaMc7 (47693070) 3rd Great Grandfather of U.S. President Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. Contributor: CELESE BOUDREAUX PETERS (48176864 Family Members Spouse Mary Elkins Biden 1801-1863 Children William Henry Biden 1822-1852 James… Read more »

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

I’m confused. None of the above mentions Ireland and yet sleepy Joe went over there and claimed to be the direct descendant of some bloke that left Ireland a hundred+ years ago and called Ireland coming home.
If the above is correct his home lineage is Chichester West Sussex and he is therefore very much English not Irish. Doesn’t matter the guys got dementia and has no back bone.

Sean
Sean
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Irish on mothers side, English on fathers side. But he was born and raised in an Irish-American community so…

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

The thing is, Biden’s idea of Irishness is an unrealistic, heavily stylised notion that is based on too many viewings of ‘The Quiet Man’ or ‘Wild Mountain Thyme’ It’s a kind of stage Irish mullarkey that many in Ireland roll their eyes at. If he traced his ancestry far enough back, he’s probably Danish/Norwegian.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
6 months ago

A woman I knew who grew up in the 40s told me in her day people just said ‘I’m an American’. It was enough.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago

Just read up about Victor McLaglen the epitome of Hollywood Irishness, if you don’t know his story, it sums up and indeed encouraged the the (mostly) mythical identity of the modern Irish American story entirely, indeed the likes of Biden himself. I won’t ruin it for you if you don’t know it’s a real belter. I guess we wonder how Trump gets away with re writing his own history and being believed, but it has a long tradition that perhaps a young and diverse Country probably needs to form some semblance of historical identity to sustain it. I guess we… Read more »

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Certainly. I’m fairly sure that much of Biden’s ‘Irish leaning ‘ statements are really just dog whistles for the huge Irish American voting constituency, all of that mock Irish ‘ Bejaysus and Begorrah’ crap sets the Irish teeth on edge. No one in Ireland talks or thinks that way. It’s analogous to someone from overseas being keen to claim British ancestry and saying “Jolly good show old chap ” and dressing like Chris Eubank.

Richard B
Richard B
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

One of my 2 x great grandparents was Irish – born in the 1850’s. I’m 1/16 Irish, 1/16 Dutch and 7/8 English.
I’m as Irish as Biden.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago
Reply to  Richard B

Top of the morning to you. Congrats on your new found ability to be neutral, enjoy heavy drinking and blame everyone for stealing your lucky charms

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Just to confirm that both the original Biden and his younger wife were English, thus all offspring named herewith were of English stock whether born over here or in the US. Could likely account for the longevity of Joe’s surname, regardless of whom among he was born, raised in the States. Would imagine it is very easy for many Americans to have absorbed Irish / German / Italian – the list goes on and on – relations once having emigrated. Nothing against Joe’s pride in his close Irish links, but that’s quite a list of British Bidens to get politically… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I seem to remember the Sussex Biden emigrated to Ireland, judging from the above then to the US I had previously assumed it was later offspring who emigrated. As we know since post 1st WW Americans love to boast they have Irish ancestry (real or imagined) whereas before that they reviled the Catholic Irish, indeed a lot of Staton islands unfortunate fame relates back to that. Half of Irish Americans actually have their roots in the Presbyterian immigrants right from the early days who so helped build the Country many of whom have tended to become various shades of Baptists… Read more »

Cj
Cj
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Just read biden came over to Ireland to stop the British screwing about. The man is a tit.

AlexS
AlexS
6 months ago
Reply to  Cj

It is even in BBC!

Joe Biden says he was in Northern Ireland to make sure ‘Brits didn’t screw around’

Cj
Cj
6 months ago
Reply to  AlexS

I would love to hear what he says about Britain in private, that would be a real eye opener.🤔

Paul T
Paul T
6 months ago
Reply to  Cj

👍

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

😀

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
6 months ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Storm Shadow has hee-haw to do with the yanks.

Suportive Bloke
Suportive Bloke
6 months ago

“are not in the same league as the Russian AS-24 KILLJOY hypersonic missile or Shahed Iranian one-way attack drones, or their Kalibr cruise missile with a range of over 2,000km. Roughly 7 times that of the Storm Shadow missile” I choked when I read that. I think BW might have been injecting a bit of humour. The drones are long range an joke grade weapons that Ukraine can deal with. The ‘hypersonic’ missiles may have a long range but are about as accurate as Gen1 missiles: they might hit within a few blocks on a good day. Storm Shadow can… Read more »

Sean
Sean
6 months ago

Hope Putin now regrets spreading polonium around London and novichok around Salisbury…
As the Klingons say, revenge is a dish best served cold 😏

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

He did poke us with a stick and attack on our sovereign land.

They were so bungling, incompetent and so obvious that I had Winkler in mind from The Fourth Protocol.

Sean
Sean
6 months ago

I thought they’d teamed up Frank Spencer and Norman Wisdom for the Salisbury mission.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago

Personally I do think the UK should have poked back in some way after Salisbury…in reality if the HMG had gone completely Tonto they could have enacted article 5…as was the response was pathetic..there should have been something in between.

Suportive Bloke
Suportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I agree something should have been done. If only to send a message STOP.

Putin ‘tested’ the UK and we flunked the test.

So emboldened Putin then calculated that as we could not even be bothered to react to state sponsored crimes on our soil we wouldn’t bother to react to much else?

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago

Don’t really agree on the flunked, SB. But, to follow the meme, they do say that revenge is a dish best served cold.

Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Years of taking dirty Russian money paid dividends for Putin amongst our bungling leadership. Perpetual defence cuts in the face of Rusian & PRC aggression.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Agree Jonathan. Putin was allowed to get away with Salisbury which was an open act of aggression by a hostile state. Deploying a nerve agent against a NATO country should have triggered article 5 and many trips to use the toilets in the Kremlin.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago

It does put in into perspective that in reality the RAF and RN could essential win against the Russian navy and airforce on its own if forced to…Russia really has only been about nuclear weapons and it’s perceived willingness to use them tactically since the fall of the USSR.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago

I think your right. BW must’ve been joking. Storm Shadow has an accuracy measure in <1 metre from 150+ miles. Meanwhile Russian aircraft bomb their own city 40+ miles from the Ukrainian border and their missiles only have the accuracy to hit the side of a massive block of flats.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I think he was sending up Mad Vlad.

Mad Vlad keeps saying nobody else has weapons like Russia?

Michael S.
Michael S.
6 months ago

I find it astonishing how much can be integrated into soviet planes.

Marked
Marked
6 months ago
Reply to  Michael S.

In a short time too. While it takes donkeys years on our own.

Uninformed Civvy Lurker
Uninformed Civvy Lurker
6 months ago

From an uninformed Civvy lurker point of view – aren’t these missiles really, really clever and don’t need targeting information from the host.

Just need to pre-program a target, before take off, get it to a specific height and roughly a specific location and then release. The missile does all the hard work.

Does not need the integration time of other missiles that need targeting information from the host aircraft.

You could push Storm Shadow out the back of an A400 and still hit your target ?

Isn’t that correct ?

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago

That’s my understanding. The guidance system is GPS with low level radar avoidance terrain following; its given a pre-programmed route and way points. Final target acquisition is by infra – red imaging. Advanced for its time and accurate within a few metres.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago

The missile and aircraft systems need to communicate..also you need to know what happens when you release the weapon….does it hit an important bit of the aircraft etc…

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago

Pretty much. The updated version (SPEAR4) has two way mid course guidance datalink, so it can be re-targeted in flight or loiter in a kill box. It also has longer range, and is even more accurate. This is the version the RAF will use, it won’t be the version being sent to Ukraine.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Which means we will be creating the targeting files for them…..I would speculate….that way they won’t be hitting Russian targets….

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago

I would imagine so mate.

DaveyB
DaveyB
6 months ago

Sadly it’s not as simple as that. Yes, you could technically give it a lat/long and send it on its merry way. However, it really needs an image of the target that is used by its infrared sensor to make sure it’s aiming for the correct target. For the RAF in particular a secondary target is loaded in, along with a succession of waypoints. That the missile follows to avoid air defences. What Ukraine probably won’t get is the ability to retarget whilst inflight. As their aircraft will need a Mil-Std-1553B and a datalink. However, if rumours are true that… Read more »

Stc
Stc
6 months ago

All the things I hate with our politicians in one statement. This was muted months and months ago and they have just only now come to this statement. We have enough evidence of the Russians barbaric behaviour so why o why do they have to justify sending a small number of longer range weapons ?Frankly there is argument we offered security to the Ukrainians in exchange for them giving the Soviet nukes back to Russia. We clearly failed, so the right thing to do is to give the Ukrainians some nukes back. At least the threat should be there, play… Read more »

OkamsRazor
OkamsRazor
6 months ago
Reply to  Stc

This has to be the most unintelligent nonsense I have read this year! Firstly, if logistics of delivery and delivery systems are not worked out a weapon is useless. You therefore have to take time to work these things out and this also involves discussions with allies. This is real life not comic books or Hollywood. As for nuclear weapons! Pity there are no moderators on this site.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago
Reply to  OkamsRazor

I think the nuclear weapons is an interesting concept on how to manage global warming…..give Ukraine nuclear weapons..that’s a quick trip to massive global cooling and extinction of the human race….give it 100 years the planet would be back in great shape…

Sky Blue One
Sky Blue One
6 months ago
Reply to  Stc

STC, you quoted “Frankly there is argument we offered security to the Ukrainians in exchange for them giving the Soviet nukes back to Russia. We clearly failed”

I’m assuming that you’re referring to the the Budapest Memorandum? There was no agreement to provide or offer security to Ukraine.
The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine if they gave up their Nuclear weapons, except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the UN Charter.

One of the most misunderstood issues surrounding this conflict.

John Williams
John Williams
6 months ago

Well, I hope everyone realizes that open war with Russia is not too far off!

Richard2
Richard2
6 months ago
Reply to  John Williams

You should also remind everyone that they have nukes.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago
Reply to  John Williams

I think most people on this site are pretty clued up on the Geopolitical risks…trouble is with Putin there is a very good chance war is potentially inevitable which every way you jump: help Ukraine = possible war with Russia…not helping Ukraine = Russia pushing a NATO red line later and war with Russia…at present its really a question do we risk war with Russia on our own terms or risk war with Russia through lack of willingness to act and on Russia terms. It was the same choice faced by the French third republic and the UK in 1938..they… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by Jonathan
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Indeed only the timing was ever in doubt if Putin had been given the rope. As things are and as difficult as that may seem presently, we are actually far less likely to trigger a direct war as Putin knows he can’t keep poking and getting away with it indefinitely. Let the poking continue and dictators become convinced that they can always push further and are invincible until you are forced to confront them directly. Yes it’s dangerous now but not as dangerous as having done little to nothing as many naive people have urged. This was all simply the… Read more »

Gareth
Gareth
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Yes it’s dangerous now but not as dangerous as having done little to nothing as many naive people have urged.

Absolutely right. Also worth mentioning that Putin will naturally exploit people’s fears of these dangers to try and intimidate them into doing nothing, spread seeds of doubt, or undermine resolve where ever he can. It’s dangerous but we have to call his bluff and show we are not intimidated. Takes a little courage, in other words.

Cj
Cj
6 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Yeah sounds familiar 😱 just hope the build quality from China is crap.

Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago
Reply to  John Williams

Same risk in the Korean war. Same throughout the cold war, today we have Russia & China trying it on. The biggest threat to world peace is when everyone backs off & appeases genocidal maniac regimes rather than facing them down.

John Williams
John Williams
6 months ago
Reply to  Frank62

The biggest threat to world peace is when everyone backs off & appeases genocidal maniac regimes rather than facing them down, but you do this thru strength, not 30 years of defense cuts

Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago
Reply to  John Williams

Indeed.

Sean
Sean
6 months ago
Reply to  John Williams

And yet even with these 30 years I’d defence cuts, NATO could wipe what’s left of the Russian military in an afternoon…

Esteban
Esteban
6 months ago
Reply to  Sean

Which members of NATO have this capability?

Sean
Sean
6 months ago
Reply to  Esteban

Not too good with English are you?
Go back and read my post again.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago
Reply to  John Williams

What’s Russia going to fight with? Russia will look for a way to get out of full war with Ukraine shortly. I give it a year 2 at most.
Not enough young russians want to sign up to fight. Useful reserves have been called up and more are being called up. Over 1 million russians left already.
At the rate of russians dead and injured and equipment getting lost how long can they continue at this pace.

Frost002
Frost002
6 months ago

Surely the only aircraft in Ukraine that can deploy this weapon is the Su-27/24. The Mig-29 is already short on range, and with 1 (or2) Storm Shadow missiles, it will not have the ability to carry any external fuel tanks, and with self defence AAMs, the range will be insignificant, same too for the Su-25 – they will have to be based too close to the front line.

The only option is the Su-27 or Su-24, both have triple the range and double the payload of the mig-29.

Even the GR4s performance was severely restricted when carrying Strom Shadow.

UKRAINAPOLIS
UKRAINAPOLIS
6 months ago

Good news! the strategic use of the missiles to dislodge the Russians from Crimea (no hiding place) may lead to the surrender of the Russian military and less need for counteroffensive by Ukraine. The sooner those nodes are destroyed the better for all of us.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago
Reply to  UKRAINAPOLIS

I think you are right. If Crimea is cut off eg the Putin bridge destroyed as well as a few other key road and rail links and hubs then Russia’s military campaign will be severely hindered especially in the face of a Ukrainian counter attack which we all hope and pray is coming and will be successful. i’m just hoping the C2s give the Russfascists a damn good kicking.

Richard B
Richard B
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

General Sun Tzu had the concept of ‘Give your opponent a golden bridge’.
If you destroy the bridge you given the Russians no way to retreat so they will fight harder.
If you keep the bridge open they are more likely to run away back to Russia.

john melling
john melling
6 months ago

Long overdue👍

TypewriterMonkey
TypewriterMonkey
6 months ago

It’s great that we’re leading on this, but it’s yet another example of a capability that the west should have provided some time ago. Why is it that Putin has ‘the right’ to bomb Ukrainian cities and civilian infrastructure with total impunity, but the Putin apologists don’t think that the Ukrainians have the right to fight back? I fear that this war will drag on because we dithered about fully supporting the Ukranians, and God help us if Trump gets back into power.

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago

Don’t even joke about that….

Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago

Absolutely.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago

Its all carefully co-ordinated to prevent a wider conflagration which would draw the NATO alliance into direct conflict with Russia. Something Putin wants to justify a general mobilisation of all Russians into the war industry/ military service. Putin knows he is losing and losing badly in Ukraine. The only response now that might dislodged the Ukrainian defences and lead to victory is a massive red army horde akin to a WW2 steam roller. For that he needs millions and millions of troops and expects to suffer gigantic casualties to end the war with a victory for Russia. NATO and Ukraine… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

You are right in many respects there certainly in avoiding an excuse for total mobilisation but modern Russia is not the Soviet Union of the thirties. The population size is much smaller and declining, especially with recent ‘emigration’ of the more capable younger elements, the European side is mostly being kept out of the call ups due to fear of negativity amongst the more influential sophisticated and powerful Russian elements of society, the remaining ethnically diverse lands have arguable ultimate loyalty especially if they are used too extremely as cannon fodder and already Russia is struggling as a result to… Read more »

Mark Franks
Mark Franks
6 months ago

Although not tested yet, it’s been a challenging few months integrating a 5th generation missile onto a second generation platform.
Many commentators have suggested Su 24, although I have heard AN 12 transport aircraft as it has been easier to fit the mission equipment in to the fuselage. The missiles are from UK stocks, not intended for the spear 4 upgrade programme.

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago

A significant capability. With Storm Shadow Ukraine can sever the Kirsch Bridge good and proper.

Gareth
Gareth
6 months ago

Good – now if they can be integrated onto Soviet-era aircraft then there’s little excuse for not integrating on the F-35Bs as well. This would give the UK CSG much needed extra strike range with the F-35s being able to launch well out of range of enemy air defences.

Personally I would’ve kept this donation quiet until the Russians notice them exploding in Crimea but hey ho….Black Sea fleet will have to be careful now….and that’s a pretty bridge across the Kerch Strait…

Last edited 6 months ago by Gareth
Frank62
Frank62
6 months ago
Reply to  Gareth

Probably a choice between “ambushing” Russia by deploying these, or both detering Russian forces & encouraging other NATO states to step up with more capable weaponry to allow Ukraine to better defend itself. Given the mental instability of Putin, an open donation may be wiser. Then there’s Sunak’s ego to be able to claim an initiative(after overseeing cutting UK forces to the bone).

Deep32
Deep32
6 months ago
Reply to  Gareth

SS was one of the original weapons slated for integration on F35B along with Asraam and Amraam. In fact £600 million was set aside for the very purpose, but escalating development costs and a aircraft price North of £100 million per unit saw that capability cancelled and the money spent on the increased costs instead, oh what might of been….

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Deep32

I see that the latest cost of an F35 (not sure about variant cost variations mind) are reckoned at 44 million (£/$ not sure) now. Big difference if accurate.

Deep32
Deep32
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Yes I have seen something similar mentioned, although not as low as that ($60 million). Again not entirely sure, either how accurate, or which version/average cost that applies too.

Of course, this means that BAEs 15% share of the construction price is also diminishing. I expect the cost price per unit to increase substantially once Blk 4 is delivered, as the large cost overruns will need to be recouped somewhere along the line Im sure!

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago
Reply to  Gareth

“now if they can be integrated onto
Soviet-era aircraft then there’s little excuse for not integrating on the F-35Bs as well.”

Maybe the MoD used a different contractor to integrate S.S. into Soviet aircraft, then the one whom charges £500m to integrate on F-35b’s!

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
6 months ago

I wonder if Germany or perhaps Italy will donate some in advance to Ukraine given this announcement.

9 Sept 2022

“Does Italy still fly the Tornado?

There are still a number of Tornados in active service with the Aeronautica Militare and they operate – or have operated – in the 102° Gruppo (Squadron), 154° Gruppo (Squadron), 155° Gruppo (Squadron) and 156° Gruppo (Squadron).”

19th January 2023

UKRAINE CALLS ON GERMANY TO DONATE 93-STRONG TORNADO FLEET
LINK

Last edited 6 months ago by Nigel Collins
DaveyB
DaveyB
6 months ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Both Italy and Germany fly the ground attack version of Tornado. Italy uses Storm Shadow, whereas Germany uses Taurus. Taurus is a similar air launched cruise missile, but doesn’t have a BROACH warhead.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
6 months ago
Reply to  DaveyB

I think it would be more than capable against Russia, especially as they have been upgrading them. They also have electronic combat/reconnaissance aircraft I believe, and I’m sure I read somewhere that Saab was going to upgrade their radars at one point? “Lessons learned from the missions in NATO´s Combined Air Operations lead now to further mid-life modular upgrade programs concerning “Combat Efficiency Enhancement” under the software cycle ASSTA 3.1. The integration of a tactical data link hardware and initial functionality (MIDS Link 16), the 500 lbs dual mode weapon LJDAM, SATURN secure radio and a Digital Video Data Recording… Read more »

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Taurus uses a similar warhead called MEPHISTO.

German Tornado got a different MLU to the UK’s GR.4 so are not capable of firing Storm Shadow.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Tornado is Germany’s nuclear bomber.

No Tornado = no tactical nuclear bombs.

They are buying F35A to replace it, as it is nuclear cleared.

Tornado is hideously complicated and dated. A part analogue, part digital plane with none of the advantages of modern computing systems?

The issue is more training maintainers and parts supply chain as the Germans won’t have much inventory. Some electronic parts, will now, be close to impossible to make.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
6 months ago

One other user, the RSAF love their Tonkas. Switching to Typhoon now but still plenty of airframes around and all where recently modernised to the equivalent of the GR4 standard…and they carry the SS in RSAF service…

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Would the Saudis cross another oil producer?

They hate Biden?

They love Mad Vlad for pushing profits through the roof?

Not simple. The don’t much like UK for leading the net zero charge and laugh at us to not using our own oil and gas fields to our advantage.

Tonka is undoubtedly the right platform for SS. However, it is a fiend to maintain. Easier to use as it is twin seat but vulnerable to manpads.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
6 months ago

Saudis are realists. Oil price high is good especially with the economy being oil based and the massive social welfare costs the country has. They are diversifying. Mineral extraction is the next big thing. They are also getting in on Hydrogen production, green fuels, pushing even more for Petrochem ( that will never go away everyone needs chemicals even if petrol and diesel use decline) Solar Power and even tourism. Top shelf branded booze is available at private clubs and within 3-5 years there will be bars and nightclubs on the Corniche! Profits in KSA on oil are always massive.… Read more »

NorthernAlly
NorthernAlly
6 months ago

Question the French storm shadows can be launched from ships and subs, how come we never took that option up? Also if push comes to shove can they be used as air lauched anti-ship missles?

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago
Reply to  NorthernAlly

Until now RN doctrine for land strike was TLAM from submarines. Thats changing now with Mk41 on T26.
SS is fire and forget and guidance is GPS so its designed for fixed land targets.

DaveyB
DaveyB
6 months ago
Reply to  NorthernAlly

The French version is called SCALP, it is subtly different from Storm Shadow to prevent them being interoperable.

Jon
Jon
6 months ago
Reply to  NorthernAlly

The naval version, MdCN, is a different beast, having a big booster rocket. It won’t fit in the T45’s Sylver 50 VLS and currently we don’t have a ship that could fire it. Would we go with bigger Sylvers or strike length Mk 41, and in which ship? If we fitted Mk 41s on the destroyers, wouldn’t it have been easier then to get more Tomahawks?

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

I guess it will at least ensure major vessels are not going to be anchored at Sevastopol though they are mostly out of there anyway I believe, not sure what assets remain there, do they still have the landing ships bringing in supplies? Will certainly keep them on edge.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

Tomahawk is dramatically cheaper than MdCN.

Truth is we didn’t need MdCN as we already had a steady supply of Tomahawk.

jjsmallpiece
jjsmallpiece
6 months ago

Probably best not to loiter too long when crossing the Kerch Bridge

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
6 months ago

Good. May they soon be have a brief and powerful introduction to the Russian fleet in Sevastopol, and the Kerch Bridge

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago

I was thinking if supply to Crimea is predominantly via the bridge and additionally via the Landing ships which were certainly being used post last attack, they are going to be seriously at risk as the land bridge is not a great option for large scale supplies.
Fuel Depots, already being hit, are going to be under serious threat, only exacerbating the problem for storing both for civilian and military purposes. No wonder the Russians are anxious.

Last edited 6 months ago by Spyinthesky
Gemma
Gemma
6 months ago

Ukraine apparently has 12 Sukhoi Su-24. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24

Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missile. Apparently UK has 1100+ and built in UK. Some are being upgraded. Some of those that are not being upgraded been given to Ukraine. (Better than being scraped) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Shadow

Geneticengineer
Geneticengineer
6 months ago

Any idea what the real range of SS is. >250 km is very vague. It’s a bit smaller than TLAM which has 1000 mile range. Surely air launched SS has a range of well over 500 miles!?

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago

Ukraine will probably get an ‘export’ version which has its range limited to about 300km I think to comply with the terms of a multi-national agreement we signed on exporting cruise missiles. The RAF version goes a lot further but the range is of course classified.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago

It’s not smaller than Tomahawk at all…

Both weigh 2,900lbs…

Both warheads are c1,000lbs..

Tomahawk is 1.5ft longer, and 1 inch wider…but Storm Shadows body has similar volume due to its shape…

Storm Shadow has higher lift from its body…and greater wingspan…and a more efficient turbofan…

Read into that what you will…

Esteban
Esteban
6 months ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Why is the UK still buying tomahawks then.. Just perhaps the French missile is not up to the task.

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago

I suspect SS is the piece of the jigsaw piece that Ukraine has been waiting for before finalising plans for their offensive. They will want to know that they have the ability to deep strike Russian supply lines. I expect we will see them test it soon,

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Agreed the Russians have deep defences, so to break through, certainly in avoiding large losses in so doing, it will be vital and certainly worrying for those dug in defenders, to have the deep lying supply assets being struck consistently making potentially at least those defensive lines a lot less defensible because we know just how much ordinance the Russians like to use in place of subtlety in military strategy. So yes this asset will certainly be worth waiting for and partly explains I suspect Zelenskyy’s words.

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Interesting reports of Ukraine attempting to establish a foothold on the eastern side of the Dnipro river at Kherson. Extreme end of Russian logistics. Difficult geography there and a vulnerable crossing, but if it can be done then a push eastward would isolate Crimea and get behind the Russian east – west defensive lines south of Zaporizhziha.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
6 months ago

Did this really have to be made public and telling the Russian’s what’s coming in advance? Ukraine surely wants to have some surprise capabilities up its sleeves?
Hope the UK is replenishing and upgrading its stocks with this one. I asked on another article if the Storm Shadow has any anti ship ability, a bit like the LRASM?

Jon
Jon
6 months ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

This is an information war almost as much as a physical one. By saying these aren’t in the same class as weapons Russia is already using, Wallace is hoping to stop Putin from announcing it himself as an escalation and an excuse to attack UK assets abroad, or worse. Both sides have an eye on the narrative as picked up by the rest of the world.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

Very good points Jon. BW seems to be a pretty savvy fella and playing his cards very well as others around him and our Ukrainian partners must be. Very targetted, controlled responses in this awful war. Strength and missiles to 🇺🇦! Long may they get their country back and in full! 🇬🇧 🇦🇺 😎

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon

Good take because they may not be better in range but likely in most other respects are equal to, or superior to what the other side are using especially as their ‘hypersonic’ missiles appear to be hypersonic mostly only in hype. That said it will be illuminating to see how these missiles perform in a strong (ish) defensive environment which may well influence decisions on the type of missile FC/ASW eventually becomes perhaps.

Last edited 6 months ago by Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

The information was getting out, this has clearly been worked on for months in liaison with the Poles and their Mig 29s being supplied to Ukraine, so in the end it had to have an official explanation to prevent Russia and its pals leading and controlling the debate about escalation. It’s not like they haven’t been reading the various media outlets discussing this the past week.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

The Russian’s right now have to completely change their air defence posture, regardless of whether or not Storm Shadow is deployed….

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
6 months ago

Had a look at the numbers. There were 900 storm shadow made. 96 have been used. Some I think are getting an upgrade as they are 20+ years old.
They are to be replaced around 2030ish. They are the RAF main cruise missile weapon so some need to be kept for that purpose.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
6 months ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Over 400 are going through the Spear 4 MLU process. But…MoD may decided to up that number to the entire stockpile given recent events…

France had c400 left and was only planning to MLU 100 of them…

If the MLU numbers stay at the original numbers we’ve got c400 to give to Ukraine that need ‘disposing’ of….and France ‘could’ give c300…

Hopefully though someone in UK MoD and French MoD have decided to increase the MLU numbers. No idea if the Italian’s are MLU’ing their c100 missiles either…

Steve
Steve
6 months ago

I wonder why we keep drip feeding Ukraine with weapons. Feels like every few months the government decides to donate another item. Anyone know why we didn’t donate these months ago at the same time as other weapon systems?

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
6 months ago

Can anyone clued in talk about how Storm Shadow are launched? A video on Suchomimus’ YouTube channel (good videos but questionably well informed commentary) shows an attack on a building deep in RU controlled territory, well outside range of most of Ukraine’s arsenal, alongside a video of a contrail supposedly left by a high altitude plane launching missiles. This has led to speculation that it’s the first use of Storm Shadow which in turn has led to an argument over whether Storm Shadow would be launched from high or low altitude. My reading leads me to believe it would be… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by Tomartyr