Cuts to the RAF’s E-7 Wedgetail AEW Mk1 aircraft purchase “terrible portent for the UK Armed Forces” say experts.

The Human Security Centre say they are alarmed by the apparent decision to reduce the planned fleet of UK Wedgetail Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft from five to three.

Senior Fellow and Security and Defence team leader, Dr Rowan Allport, said:

“When Russian aircraft are probing UK and NATO air defences on a regular basis, one of the primary conventional wartime threat to the British mainland comes from low-flying cruise missiles which are difficult to detect using ground-based radar, and the complexity of the air environment facing deployed UK forces is greater than ever, the decision to reduce the purchase of E-7 Wedgetail aircraft below the already bare-bones planned fleet of five is very difficult to justify. Arguments that these platforms are vulnerable to modern long-range air defence missiles and low-observation fighters have merit, but the choice right now is either an adequate fleet of traditional airborne early warning and control aircraft or accepting a significant capability gap until more robust uncrewed systems of a type that are not yet in service anywhere in the world become available. The proposed cuts also set a terrible portent for the UK Armed Forces regarding the wider outcome of the current Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy. There is no route to a Global Britain if we are unable to even provide adequate radar coverage over the North Sea.”

Senior Fellow Simon Schofield added:

“The decision to reduce the number of E-7 Wedgetails raises serious questions as to whether the UK will be able to maintain its NATO commitments. The proposed cut also ignores the critical role such aircraft have in generating situational awareness and providing air asset coordination in peacetime and during less intense conflicts – the latter including the ongoing effort against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. It is vital that the MoD reconsider this decision.”

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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194 COMMENTS

  1. I can’t say I’m surprised! I suppose it’s easier to slash the numbers now rather than when they have bloody arrived in Britain and been given a name. I hate the way our millitray has been weakened and continues to be!

    • I suppose Nato has awacs assets these days, they might even get our old airframes I read somewhere. Why do we continue to put up with cut cut cut! These are things we should protest, not made up systemic Racism that thee is no proof of when you get into it. And some of our richest citizens are black! Lewis Hamilton says he’s oppressed and racism stopped him!! but his bank balance and reach says otherwise…

      • The difference is Germany publicly accepts culpability for its historical crimes and has repeatedly apologised to those affected. It has also put significant resource into compensating those affected and still does.

        The UK has an ongoing awkward debate about its Imperial past preferring to see it with rose tinted glasses than truly face up to what was done by our ancestors.

        Pointing out that some of our richest citizens are black ignores the reality that they are very much a minority when it comes to wealth in this country. That doesn’t mean I agree with everything that BLM say or do and I dislike the general thuggish violence that has broken out over matters like the positioning of statues but as a Country the UK does need to have some self reflection about its place in the world!

        • The left are squandering goodwill and destroying their argument. If they argued for investment in non-Western businesses as some form of “atonement” (whether we should or not), then that would do more good (and eventually make wages over here more competitive as wages over there rise, in the bargain).

          • ‘The left’ ? You mean the protesters, either on the streets or in public life ? I doubt Hamilton is on the left, since he was brought up earlier, as he is tax dodging in Switzerland. There are plenty of people non-left who support the general movement. Let’s not do a Trump and make out they are all violent leftists out to bring down society. As for racism, it’s far less than it was – in the 60’s at grammar school racial insults for non-whites was commonplace. But it still exists.

          • Unfortunately we have a government which has indulged in scapegoating and division, which has exacerbated the problem in the UK.

          • Trump loves hyperbole but on this one he is nailing it – he is rightly pointing out, unlike our politicians, most of the Democrats or the major media that a large swathe of those protestors have anarchist tendencies rooted in critical race theory. They are intent on bringing radical change to society because in their analysis all power structures are intrinsically racist, cannot be reformed and need to be torn down.
            If you are willing to do the leg work you can find interviews with the founders of BLM on YouTube where they categorically state they are “trained Marxists” whose aims extend beyond improving race relations – they’re not hiding anything. Moreover, the BLM movement is funded through the ThinkBlue webportal which is a fundraising machine for the Democrats.
            The idea this is a purely a-political, grass roots movement isn’t true, consider that (nearly?) all the riots are happening in Democrat held cities. BLM is being funded through Democrat machinery (try making a donation to their webpage and check the URL), their stated aims are to bring a Marxist revolution in the USA and recent investigation into Antifa are pointing towards a high level of sophisticated, centralised coordination.

        • Look Fredaykin, the UK is vastly white, like 86% white! And only 5% max black! And the blacks who live in the uk weren’t brought through slavery like the USA!, they choose and chose to move and live here. We are changing our way of life and what it means to be British and lots are getting fed up with being called racist for pointing it out!

          • It is ‘Fedaykin’ please use my handle correctly, it is well known in the defence Blogo-sphere and I do not appreciate it being changed.

            The Blacks in the UK came here through many different means, by in large ultra wealthy people in that community are the minority not the norm.

            As I said I don’t agree with all that BLM are doing but the UK does need to face up to its History.

          • Often wondered. What is “Fedaykin” ? I looked up the term and there are articles about some sort of fantasy race?

          • No mate! Thanks for relieving my ignorance! As seen in my grav, I’m a Tolkien fantasy sort, not sci fi.

          • Tolkien fan myself but Dune (at least the first two books) is worth a read. Lots of fantasy elements in it, and an underlying premise to whole story that is brilliant.

          • It shows my love for Frank Herberts Dune, the “Fedaykin” are Paul Maud’Dibs personal and fanatical bodyguard also known as his Death Commandos!

          • And? All those Countries have been facing up to their Colonial past to a greater or lessor degree. They all have a way to go.

          • France and Belgium are rather well known for not facing up to their past which explains much of their terrible race relations. This country for all its ills actually has been facing up to its past for many years especially at University, academic and media levels, yes there is still far to go and Brexit is not helping matters allowing a minority to gain prominance in their warped opinions, but sadly some will only be happy with continuous self flageration it seems. Meanwhile the official BLM organisation has been itself guilty of promoting anti semitism so perhaps it too needs to look at itself in the mirror.

            If we are to promote the negative in our past then equally that should be balanced with the positive that rarely gets mentioned which includes forcing the Ottomans to rein in the slave industry long carried out by the Barbary pirates and then more generally to give up their institutionalised slaving activities generally that had taken millions of Slavs from the north and sub Saharan Africans from the south for centuries unhindered right into the 20th C. And then of course there was the Royal Navy’s role in forcing them to suspend their ethnic cleansing of occupied Greece during the Balkan conflict. If you even raise the subject however in Turkey you are in danger of imprisonment so by comparison with many countries we are in a different league in facing up to our negative past.

        • Why do we need self reflection? The past is the past. We are not the same country we were in colonial times and our citizenry is more affluent now than at any time in our history. Every country has its warts but we need to stop apologizing for our past. Learn from it? – absolutely; no denies mistakes were made – but stop this groveling!! It’s sickening!

          • That you are asking the question rather shows why the UK needs to do it!

            I’m sorry but globally the UK is very much judged by its past, Countries that the UK wishes to trade with like India are vocal in their demands that the UK acknowledges and faces up to its history. That doesn’t mean we roll over and accept every narrative but it does require self reflection and an acceptance that the history exists!

          • No one is denying our history but we shouldn’t go around continually apologizing for it either.

            If you really want to examine our past then we should celebrate all the good that we have done and the contributions we as a nation have made to mankind.

          • The problem is for many Countries the UK hasn’t even shown a hint of contrition let alone even getting close to making any kind of apology for its past actions!

            Talk to someone from India or China and they will laugh at the idea that the UK is continually apologizing for its past actions.

          • What about foreign aid to India? Everything you have written there is basically the kind of thing that boils the pee of the average Indian citizen. If the UK wants a meaningful trade deal it will need to wake up to the prevailing view of the public in India, they don’t see Empire with rose tinted glasses and whataboutery from our end doesn’t help!

          • Boiled pee or not they still take our money! If they were so disgruntled about our colonial past, they would refuse it…. As for trade deals? – when has any country’s public ever been consulted? When well paid jobs start appearing because of said trade deals, the Indian people will gladly forget how we ‘wronged’ them in the past. A trade deal is exactly what it says on the tin – a deal – something for us and something for them.

          • ” the Indian people will gladly forget how we ‘wronged’ them in the past”

            Frankly a crushingly naïve idea to hold onto I’m afraid.

          • That’s a ‘little rich’ India calling out racism, they are ‘the’ original racist culture!

            Their cast system keeps people firmly in the gutter…..

          • I don’t agree with the BLM call for reparations for slavery it is an absurd request, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have cause for complaint.

          • BLM by their very nature are a racist group. I live in the US and see day after day how when a white person is killed by police – which actually happens more than black people being killed – they remain absolutely silent. Not a chirp. When whites get killed by police the networks such as CNN, MSNBC and the like never cover the story. When blacks kill blacks as happens in cities such as Chicago and Detroit routinely – where are BLM? Nowhere. However, when a cop kills a black man (and before you start I am not condoning what has happened recently) they fall out into the streets in their droves to protest and then do nothing to quell the inevitable rioting and looting that follows – rioting and looting of what? – businesses in their own communities!

            What about all the money they have received this summer from companies tripping over themselves to be seen supporting them? Example – Walmart gave them $100m – $100m!!!! Ok fine – what are they going to do with that money? Spend it helping their own communities with such things as after school programs? You must be joking if you think any of that money will ever be spent on improving the lives and future prospects of the Black American youth. It will disappear to line pockets.

            Don’t kid yourself – BLM has nothing to do with black lives. It’s about money, power and anarchy.

            I know what I am talking about – I am here and living it every day.

          • Absolutely ridiculous request. I have a lot of sympathy with various anti-racism campaigns but those demanding reparations for things from hundreds of years ago seem the forget the role of Africans in facilitating the slave trade.

          • Not grovelling but in a vast enterprise like ’empire’ there will be bad things that happen, as well as good. Empires are not established to ‘do good’ but to exploit resources.

        • Fedaykin you put your argument very well but like the vast majority of Britain’s I personally have nothing to apologise for because the people that gained the most from slavery and the Empire were a very small elite, and by and large their ancestors still run or are very influential in the U.K.
          The near slave conditions of the UK’s poor (and most of the population) up until the early 20th century seems to be overlooked in the general hand wringing by the establishment and metropolitan elite.
          I have several black friends and so have my sons and they are all embarrassed by BLM and recognise that constantly suggesting organisations are institutionally rascist and all white people should be regularly informed of their unconscious bias is counterproductive.
          Identity politics is dangerous from wherever it comes and we are currently reaping a bitter harvest of not integrating new arrivals properly into the country and allowing parallel communities to develop in large parts of the U.K. These communities do not exist in some kind of multicultural paradise but instead are separated by language and culture. The resentment generated by focusing on just ‘poor’ BAME people without recognising the disadvantage of all just feeds those on the far right.

          • Absolutely, first off, I am sure we can all agree that racism and slavery in all its forms is abhorrent and vile.

            BLM is a political organisation, it cherry picks the tag lines it finds useful to whip up anger, refines them and rallies support, mainly from people who aren’t that quick on the uptake, no different from many other organisations that have gone before them.

            The sheeple have always loved a cause to blindly follow!

            The left wing jumps on board, because it finds a vehicle it can use to manipulate the agenda. The hard left has given up on elections, because the people ‘are too racist and bigoted’ to vote them into Government, hence having their arse handed to them in four general elections!

            Instead, they grasp onto this and shove it down our throats.

            The UK is ‘the’ most tolerant, multi cultural country there is.

            The left wing is now firmly in control of our mainstream broadcast media, sounds paranoid?

            Ashley Banjo’s lame woke dance troupe ‘Diversity’, though its mainly black…. (makes you grown with the political correctness of it) does an outright political BLM dance on that dreadful excuse for a TV program, generating thousands of complaints and ITV and OFCOM refuse to apologise and see nothing wrong….

            The lunatics have taken over the asylum chaps…..

            We actually have thousands of girls being trafficked into this country and forced into the sex trade, this is modern day slavery, happening right now, its vile and disgusting and no one seems to give a sh*t!

            No dance about about that Mr Banjo????

          • To be honest, more than the idea that left is in control of the mainstream broadcast media sounds a bit paranoid.

          • You make a good point about conditions for working people even after the slave trade. As the ever acerbic ‘Flashman’ put it about Wilberforce he was happy to keep taking his dividends from his shares (or something of the like).

        • The 2011 census states that 3.6% of the population (from memory) are black. That does feel like a minority.
          Not suggesting anything other than we need to keep this in perspective. Equal opportunities for ALL.

      • I think the world is fully aware of the horrors of what the Nazis did in WW2… Colonialism however is very much mis-taught and misses out huge parts of our history and actions in an attempt to glorify the Empire. I think it is right that we talk about the issues and admit our countries part in a bad time in history. However I also think we should talk about how the Bible actively promotes slavery and acknowledge religions role in it all. Also lets talk about how the Arabs kept hundreds of thousands of slaves, mostly from Russia and Persia… Oh an also how Africans perpetuated the slave trade of their own people. After all it was not the White Europeans catching the people to enslave in the first place, they bought them from African slave traders. We should promote the truth from all sides in order that we learn.

        • Well said!

          Some are so ignorant of history and who accept that everything they see in social media is true and inerrant.

          It is part of our history. Yes, as a country we had a significant part in the slave trade. But few know of the significant act done by enlightened forward thinking giants who got slavery banned in the Empire.

          If people think slavery is dead – again ignorant.

          So long as there a inequalities in wealth, the rich will think they can subjugate the poor.

          Anyone who disagrees is ignorant of the atrocities and depravities of humanity at the present.

          There are slaves all over the world. In the 21st Century, that is a sad indictment of humans today. There are many slaves, in all parts of the world, who are producing the consumer goods we leave littering our planet.

          A pox on ALL of our houses.

        • Some very true points about African involvement which I’ve put, politely, to a journalist who campaigns on the subject and not got a reply.

      • Lewis Hamilton does not claim to be oppressed and has never said Racism stopped him. He says he suffered racism on his way through the ranks. That is not the same thing… How many of our richest citizens are Black? And what proportion of our rich list are Black? Pointing to one or two examples is missing the point.

        • Operation Trident. Aimed at black gangs because black gangs are going round killing each other.

          Not aimed at elderly white grannies in Tunbridge Wells, no matter how much some wish it to be so for the sake of equality.

        • I am sorry, but you have got a lot of things mixed up here.

          Lewis Hamiltons support of people who are being oppressed, is very different than claiming he himself is oppressed… I largely support the people that are oppressed but I am white and male, very far from being racially abused on a daily basis and even further away from being oppressed for the colour of my skin…

          As for systematic racism. It can raise its head in many ways. In the US it is quite out in the open, in the UK it is not on the surface so much as under the surface. There are policies that mean Black communities are far less likely to get out of poverty, you only have to look at our government to see that it is made up mostly of white privileged men from Eaton… They could not care less about the peasants of this country (ie anyone not privately educated) and are even less aware or caring about issues in minority communities. As long as their boys club keeps giving to them they are fine. Now I am not necessarily saying that they are purposefully racist and employing racist policies but I do think that they are not doing enough to balance out society to make it more fair. I agree that some claims of racism are purely to get leverage in certain situations and are not true. I also however see racism on a daily basis along with sexism and homophobia. Do I think we have the same ingrained issues as the US? No, but I do think we have more of a problem than appears on the surface. Lewis Hamilton is perfectly allowed to raise awareness of these issues particularly as the majority of his protests are about things happening in the US where it is clearly a major problem.

          • Most of them don’t give a tuppeny damn for the people who makes this country work. As long as they can keep things running for their benefit that’s fine. They can then moan about people ‘not working hard enough’, or ‘not taking advantages of their opportunities’ as the old school tie helps them along the way. The days of decent ‘one nation’ tories has given way to the grabbers, hustlers and greedy who look down on anyone who isn’t as selfish as they are. (Mini rant over).

      • Almost every culture has racism and slavery in its history. The word slave derives from “slav”, when people north of the Black Sea were captured for slavery hundred of years BCE. Arabs captured Europeans as slaves up to the 19th century. When Britain banned the slave trade and then banned slavery in 1833, an African king complained to Queen Victoria that she had deprived him and his people of wealth. I’m so sick of this one-sided discussion. I came here to decry the defense budget, not listen to

    • It’s more capable now than it’s ever been. Just smaller, but the quality and capability of our equipment today is far superior to anything we had in the 80’s and 90’s, and far more deployable, and sustainable. We need to look beyond simple numbers of regiments, SQN’s and warships compared to yesteryear. We used to have a lot more kit yes, but also a lot more crap that wasn’t fit for purpose in many ways.

    • defense-aerospace.com says the reason for the cut, is that the price for 5, went up from $1.98 billion to $2.68 billion. A $700 million increase.

  3. Given that we require at least 1 for uk air space policing, that leaves two spare. Now given that istar support is supposed to be are crucial contribution to NATO NATO what does this decision show. Can you really question why any nation would be hesitant to have us as an allie when we show such little support for our own armed forces.

    • By my understanding this would mean just 1 available, and surely UK only.

      Hopefully no truth in it or part of a wider move where additional unmanned are procured? Are there any in use? Like Tritons or Global Hawk types as a ASCS?

      • I think given are focus on maintenance and the air frame being a 737 model I could imagine a high service rate with the type. However 1 is always bound to be invaluable.

    • There’s going to be a compromise due to US pushback, we will get 4 which is OK.Never been a fan of this plane, the radar is good but an old design and will probably be subject to obsolescence issues before the end of the decade which is why the Australians are all ready looking at a future replacement.We should have bought some of the SAAB planes they may be a bit small for the RAF but have UK content and would have been ok as an interim solution until a new NATO option is developed.

      • It’s more the expeditionary deployments that might suffer more, but again, I don’t think we have used an E3 over Syria/Iraq recently, but I could be wrong.

      • Good point. I was comparing with the original 7 E3s.

        Would it be possible to have 3 purely for UKADR and a UAV type for expeditionary work? Maybe one is in the works?

  5. I sincerely hope this is untrue, it woukd be a clear example of gross stupidity at its worst. Any individual serving in a senior military post who genuinely believes this to be acceptable needs replacing…..

  6. Is this announcement in the same light as the Army’s: “we are cancelling Challenger 2 due to required cost savings”?

    The RAF’s E3Ds are on their last legs, they suffer from a very high maintenance burden/poor availability and the radar system is several steps behind the current French and US versions. It is however, closer to the NATO aircraft. The E3D as a platform still is very good a detecting aircraft etc, but suffers against small stealthy targets, such as cruise missiles, drones etc.

    The E7A Wedgetail, is a significant step change in not only performance but also capability over the E3D. If anything, I’d mothball a number of Typhoons before slashing the numbers of the Wedgetail. Without more than 3 Wedgetails, you wouldn’t be able to deploy any on operations abroad, as they’d be permanently deployed for UK airspace overwatch. Further with only 3, you wouldn’t have UK 24/7 patrols, as one will always be undergoing depth maintenance, as the airframe hours will be used up much quicker. You would also need to deploy more Typhoons flying CAP as you’d be missing a large chunk of your over the horizon early warning. It’s simply a false economy and probably scaremongering on someone’s part.

    • I’m inclined to agree. It’s about time we had some RAF sided leaks, rumours, to go with the RN carriers and EM and the armies armour.

      To me, ISTAR in all forms is a massive capability enhancer, a growth area, and niche capability the UK is well provided for.

      Cut Typhoon squadrons before key enablers.

      • Whats the problem Daniele .
        Our Politicians know better than the rest of us, they (i have been well informed) have planned for the future defence of the country. The army and Navy will be combined and the future numbers will be a world class rowing boat, built in Turkey which will be crewed by a black, non binary LGBT+2 person armed with the latest iteration of the SA80, (But due to health and safety will not be issued with any bullets) Due to climate change the boat will not be fitted with an engine. The airforce will consist of a gay asylum seeker fly a kite off the black cliffs of Dover (Painted black as Black lies matter finds the term white racist)

        Supporting our wonderful armed forces for the future will be 100000 civil servants all outsourced to India and Pakistan

    • I think it’s likely true, if it’s not supporting British jobs it’s and easy capability to reduce. The problem is Boeing will turn around and day the R&D required to integrate it in the new airframe means they wont be saving much and def not 20% of the current contract amount.

  7. Filling a capability gap is the key.

    Next-generation aircraft are not that far away now so do you keep investing in aircraft that will be superseded within the next ten years or limit the intended purchase order to fill that gap in the short term?

    A possible replacement on the cards maybe?

    21 SEPTEMBER 2020

    “JAIC Smart Sensor plays key role in USAF advanced ISR pod prototype”

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/jaic-smart-sensor-plays-key-role-in-usaf-advanced-isr-pod-prototype

    • The USAF have had a long standing issue in that they have to many aircraft types, multiple of which can perform overlapping tasks. They alsonhave many legacy aircraft from as early as the 1950s. This puts a major logistical, and financial burden on them. Which intern impacts their operational effectiveness.

        • It is of course vital to maintain a lead in technology. But unfortunately these things don’t happen over time and America should have the resources and money to experiment and implement them. Where as it would be to risky for us to complete disregard all traditional assets for the latest in technology and theory as it would leave us venerable to failure.

          • And therein lies the problem, we don’t have those financial resources, so a cheaper option has to be found in the short term to fill our current capability gaps while investing what monies we have on future projects like Tempest.

            Let’s wait and see if there is any truth in this post anyway!

          • Tempest isn’t an awacs aircraft nor is the e7 a stop gap. It’s is the latest and greatest and we need it in numbers and we need them now.

          • We have to make budgetary adjustments sadly which no doubt will see a reduction in planned orders in certain areas, but the smart play will be looking to find a suitable cost-effective replacement short term and focus our efforts on the long.

            We can speculate all we want, but the proof of the pudding will be in the next defence review, hopefully, the reduction in numbers will not in fact be the case.

            The ability to track low observable objects at greater range by both Russia & China is causing the west a great deal of concern so we have to adjust in order to maintain that all-important edge and planning for the long term means planning starts now.

            15 JULY 2020

            “Details emerge on Australian Wedgetail replacement
            by Charles Forrester

            The Australian Department of Defence (DoD) has confirmed some of the broad outlines of the replacement of the Royal Australian Air Force’s (RAAF’s) Boeing E-7A Wedgetail airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft.

            A DoD spokesperson told Janes that the Wedgetail Replacement project, designated AIR7002 Phase 1, will commence in 2029”

            https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/details-emerge-on-australian-wedgetail-replacement

          • Will commence in 2029. So you will likely not see a physical prototype till 2035. Sorry no excuse we need wedgtail and in numbers.

          • That’s correct. as the article states. Personally, given the threat posed from the continuing advancements in Radar Technology and the cost per aircraft unmanned drones might just be a better solution in contested airspace rather than risk the loss of both the Wedgetail and its crew?

            As I have said, let’s wait and see the outcome from the defence review.

            I fully understand your point of view by the way!

            This might be a possible answer? It should be a very interesting decade, especially in the next five years!

            “Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Air Vice-Marshal Catherine Roberts said the Loyal Wingman’s role could include carrying weapons in combat and protecting assets like the E-7A Wedgetail early warning and control aircraft as well as being used as a target to shield manned fighter jets such as the F-35A and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

            Defence contractors are investing increasingly in autonomous technology as militaries around the world look for a cheaper and safer way to maximise their resources.”

            https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-unmanned-idUSKBN22G30I

          • I would also point out that Australia was the lead customer & received its first operational plane in 2009. In 2029, it will be 20 years old. By late 2030’s (2039), it will be 30 years old. I see nothing unusual in expecting to be replacing 30 year old military aircraft. If Australia is prepared to be a lead customer again (rather than buying off the shelf), then 2029 seems a likely starting point.

          • @ Robert Blay

            “How do you spot a troll?

            Trolls are easy to recognize by their mode of operation. They will never compliment you for a smart statement, or admit that your question is difficult to respond to, or tone down the rhetoric with a smiley emoticon. Trolls accuse and insult. Trolls needle you relentlessly.”

            By his own admission.

            “The answer is in the article you shared Nigel. please see below. What are you like 16 or something. you’ll have to do better then that. See you at the next F35 story, I’ll be looking out for you. ?”

            “?? touched a nerve have I. I’ll reply to you Nigel, because I like calling out your BS, and completely bonkers, child like F35 comments. Anyone who starts a comment by saying ‘I’ve been saying this on this site for the last 3 years’. ? Deserves everything you get.”

            https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/how-the-pandemic-has-accelerated-change-in-the-defence-sector/

            My understanding is, that this is a crime under the Malicious Communications Act, I will be reporting it if I receive any further comments like this to my posts.

          • Social media offences.

            “Trolling is a form of baiting online which involves sending abusive and hurtful comments across all social media platforms. This can be prosecuted under the Malicious Communication Act 1988 and the Communications Act 2003.

            Online harassment can include repeated attempts to impose unwanted communications or contact in a manner that could be expected to cause distress or fear.”

            https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/cyber-online-crime

          • And I could share some pretty tasty comments you have sent my way Nigel. But I’m not that sensitive. Maybe you should think twice before you send your posts, and realise you are opening your self up to criticism, and not everyone will agree with your own defense views. And admit, that you might be occasionally wrong.

          • Yeah, but you always reply though Nigel. Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a troll. Free speech Nigel, free speech.

  9. I agree with Daveyb. I haven’t seen any official announcements so presume this is another of the myriad of rumours that always precede a defence review. Perhaps an option that is being considered along with lots of others. Some get great media attention like the rumour about Challengers being scrapped, others don’t and we never hear of them. At this time, each service is fighting its corner so eager to ‘leak’ options that they do not like. An option is just that; it is a choice and the consequences of that option are studied. Many will be taken no further, some will be modified and consequences re-examined and possibly developed into policy. At this stage, without an official announcement, I don’t think it can be classed as more than a rumour.

  10. You’ve got to wonder sometimes which country these decision makers actually work for. Given recent revelations about Tory party doners being close associates of Putin, such decision making is perhaps not wholly a mystery.

    • We have a large black hole in our equipment budget. It’s basic finances. To buy everything we want we have to either spend more, which given the massive hit to the economy due to COVID-19 probably isn’t going to happen, or we cut somthing back.

      • I would find that more credible if we hadn’t witnessed years of cuts to the armed forces (including the disastrous 2010 SDR) before now. Coronavirus or no coronavirus, our national security has routinely been compromised to save money such that we have very little strategic depth should a major conflict arise. The COVID-19 pandemic just gives them more ammunition for excuse making.

        • I understand we’re you are coming from, but the money doesn’t just come out of thin air, and modern military equipment is very expensive these day’s. We’ll see what happens.

          • I can agree with both sides during your exchange with Gareth,Robert.

            As for money. The UK is one of the worlds biggest economies. If HMG wanted to they could allocate more to defence, rather than keeping it strangled. They choose not to.

            That is a political choice.

            And that has occurred with the Labour government 1997 to 2010 and the current Tory one.

          • I agree it is a political choice, but nearly every country has cut back massively during the last 30 years, even the Americans. I guess we haven’t had a direct threat to the UK mainland, except in a terrorism form, and we have been fighting a land locked insurgency war for the last 19 years in one form or another. And that has required a certain type of capability, which unfortunately has come at the expense of other capabilitys. Is Russia and China the big threat they are made out to be, I’m not so sure, but they certainly can’t be ignored. Are the days of tank regiments rolling over Europe over, probably, hopefully. But we face new threats from proxy wars, energy wars, the ever increasing cyber threats, COVID-19 has been a very good example of new threats we now have to counter. And the threat from ISIS is far from over. But the MOD, just like the NHS, can’t be a bottomless pit of money at all cost, a line has to be drawn somewhere. And procurement costs can certainly be improved. The government needs to ask what do we want our Armed Forces to do, what do they need, and if need be, get rid of the rest, we can’t be all things to all men. Id rather us concentrate on certain key capabilities, and make sure we do them really really well, rather then spread ourselves to thin, to please Cap badges or MP’s in strong defence constituencys. That might be a complete load of guff, but we’ll see what the outcome of the review says. ???

          • Hi Robert, that sums it up very nicely, here’s the TL;DR version:-

            “UK defence spending is trying to dig itself out of 15 years of peace dividend under-spending, overlapped with 15 years of insurgency spending largely irrelevant to the needs of peer and near-peer deterrence, overlapped with 10 years of great recession recovery. Now further threatened by 2/3 of a year of pandemic.”

            We at least have very low UK government borrowing rates available to us, that used judiciously can help mitigate the worst effects of the pandemic, help the broader economy recover and perhaps largely maintain most defence programs.

            But we shouldn’t expect to fix decades of problems with defence spending in a single decade. Way too much foot stamping, throwing teddy out the cot and demanding we want all our toys and we want them now dammit on this site.

          • Yes it’s all a balance, spending on tax based costs such as defence vs Ecconomic growth.

            I think a lot of people forget how the west defeated the Soviet Union.

            The west ( well Ronald Reagan’s administration) forced the Soviet Union to overspend in defence to keep competitive, it destroyed its fragile centralised Economy so ended the Soviet Union. Most nations and empires tend to fall due to socio economic stress, military defeat tends to be a symptom of this not the cause.

            Defence spending is important, but it’s generally dead money …..until you need it. Like most complex risks it’s a balancing act…spend to much and you impact your economy Leading to you risking your security; Spend to little and you risk Your security…it’s the balance of risk that some people have to review and decide, they get it wrong people die, they get it right people still die, life is crap and you live with your decisions.

  11. Whats the problem the money saved can be used to provide homes for our new loyal citizens who will be afforded everything they want for free. Not only that but the British taxpayer will also fund their holidays to the very countries they claim to have run away from.

  12. I’m assuming that the government isn’t aware of the phrase “false economy”, or else they’d see that buying less of something means you have to work what you have bought harder, and therefore it will last less time before needing to be repaired and replaced, which will be more expensive than simply purchasing what you committed to in the first place.

    Forgive me for stating the obvious.

    • I very much agree Phillip!
      I will end up costing more in the end, like the T45’s.
      But this time with Cumming’s finger prints!

      • Ive just had a quick look at the cost of these,Gavin Williamson signed a contract for a shade under £2 Billion,so reducing the order to 3 might save around £800 million,not enough for a Squadron of Typhoons or F35’s but still quite a fair chunk of money.

        • The unit cost of Triton is US$120.689m (FY15) US$182.378m (inc R&D)
          Global Hawk costs around US$100m if they were suitable replacements to fill the gap if it indeed happensof course?

  13. I hope this is another kite being flown in advance of the SDSR which is due in Nov.

    Having worked on the original justification for 7 E3’s many years ago I never felt 5 E 7s were sufficient but were really all we could afford regardless of the capability claims for the new aircraft. When war fighting or in a prolonged a period of tension requiring a true 24 hour/ day coverage over several weeks, numbers of air frames and crews become very important. In such circumstances anything less than 5 E7s would leave a significant capability gap if we go beyond the token expeditionary warfare on the back of US Forces which we have seen in recent years .

    • 5 is already wafer-thin. One will be in the garage/squadron reserve, one in deep maintenance/training/war reserve, the remaining 3 mears one airborne some of the time.
      Three would be a feeble joke, militarily insignificant and undermine our defence

      Bearing in mind that we have just had a major 20% cut due to the 2015 SDSR, which is adversely affecting every branch of every service, further cuts are a complete non-starter and would cement the Conservatives as a party that simply cannot be trusted on defence and national security.

  14. The following is from a recent RUSI publication will post the link below, may help explain this possible move?

    “A large-scale culling of non-penetrating mobility and ISTAR fleets and acquisition programmes in order to increase combat air funding over the next decade could make sense within the context of an Integrated Review which announced a specific focus on fielding credible high-intensity warfighting capabilities as a framework nation within NATO. In the context of deterring Russian aggression in Eastern Europe, or SEAD/DEAD operations against near-peer states, many existing ISTAR fleets would have to stand off outside their effective sensor range during the initial stages of combat operations, rendering them less useful.”

    https://rusi.org/publication/occasional-papers/combat-air-choices-uk-government

    In a nutshell, the report says that new missile technology is in danger of making much of the RAFs inventory vulnerable. It points to the critical need to upgrade Typhoon T2 and T3 radar (perhaps indicating T1 is for the second hand market) and the need for more F35 A or B. My thoughts after reading were goodbye to T1, Sentinel, Hercules and Puma with Captor upgrade and more F35s in compensation. The cut to the Wedgetail is (in the context of this report) unexpected.

    • The problem with that is the likes of Puma, Hercules and other assets are used day in day out in non peer on peer roles, be it humanitarian, transport, or in support of SF. Puma is used in Iraq and Afghanistan. It could also be used in the UK obviously.

      We end up with a military unusable for anything except full on war as the non peer compatible stuff is cut.

      They are just excuses to cut IMO.

      • Just read the article. Very interesting.

        The elephant in the room, as always, is that HMG will not supply enough money to the armed forces, at officially 2% ( which we all know to be less by their accounting tricks ) yet wants to grandstand on the world stage as part of NATO and alongside the US as a UNSC P5 member.

        It always comes back to this. If HMG allocated just a few billions more each year, ongoing, this sort of funding crisis would reduce considerably.

        The choice seems to be Typhoon funding, Tempest, or F35. But not all 3 without extra funding which does not exist ( HMG fault, again ) or making Tempest a purely UCAV system to reduce costs vs a manned platform.

      • The 16 Tranche 1 twins have been scrapped for ‘reduce to produce’ spare parts the only Typhoon twins seaters are the six Tranche 2 aircraft. Nearly all the training is simulator based now.

    • The article you quote isn’t worth much in my opinion. The author seems to neglect that most aireal missions are not conducted in or even near hostile airspace. In a time of war ISTAR, Transport, and basic combat aircraft are as important if not more so then high end strike aircraft.

  15. As has been said numerous times, this is probably kite flying in advance of the review. If it is implemented it will leave a big hole in capability, and assets such as E7 are just as useful, if not more so in non peer to peer conflict as they are when we have a full blown face off with Russia or China.
    If the final two are pulled rom the programme the big winners will be Marshalls at Cambridge, who have the contract to refurbish and fit out the two aircraft, which I think are second hand. They have been dealing with the MOD for so long I bet they have a watertight cancellation clause in the contract!

    • I see you your pinch and raise you with the full salt shaker. Ben Wallace has already said since all the rumours, that the UK will upgrade Challenger, which seems a pretty solid rebuttal this close to the review.

  17. Can someone please take Dominic Cummmings out the back and shot him please. Utter madness. I give up with the unelected quangos in government.
    Ask the military what they need, they will say more investment not less with a resurgent and confrontational Russia and China to guard against.

    • I don’t think we are allowed to do that anymore Mr Bell.

      Although I do think he should have been sacked for utterly fuching up the governments public health messaging during what is the worst public health crisis in a century.

  18. I suspect that if this was a wholly British product we would not be having this discussion.

    We need our own defence industry. We also need a trade deal which is good for both sides.

  19. 3 aircraft means that there is absolutely no reserve if one is shot down. In a conflict one lucky shot takes out the whole of the UK’s AEW capability. Australia, a much smaller economy, will have more than us.

    Crazy.

  20. Wasn’t the idea for there to be 3 new air frames and 2 old ones, i wonder if this is just mixed up messages and not actually a cut.

  21. So project Astra is full steam ahead much as I fear this is just the beginning. Transport fleet next C17 is on the cards. Pumas are a dead cert.

    • Thanks AB. on the same link there’s a piece headed –
      “LONDON — Britain is stepping up its military support in Ukraine with an announcement that the U.K. will lead a multinational maritime initiative to train the Ukrainian navy.”

      So, ostensibly, we can’t afford assets to protect our own sovereignty, yet we are using what we’ve got to assist another (non-NATO) country.

      And to what end? If the Bear decided to ‘do another Crimea’ the UK and rest of the world would just stand back and watch.

      You really couldn’t make it up…

      • I suspect that the drop in Ukraine makes up for the cancellation of the annual drop over Arnhem, cancelled due to Covid risk for the spectators.. The maroon machine must keep up its jump count.

  24. This is stupid, what is the government thinking, given the importance of the UK’s role within NATO and their role throughout Europe. For christ sake the RAAF operates more E7’s then the RAF, our E3’s are out of date, are we going to buy the SAAB alternative and operate a mixed force

  25. It’s a non story guys….my mother’s brothers aunt told their dog than an MP they new thought p……It’s just a bit of postering.

    But please how on earth did this post half fill with comments on race, national guilt, empire etc etc….it’s not even an a piece about anything related to that….

    I’m sure if you all want a blow out argument, someone could ask the nice Mr Allison to do a piece on say “the impact of British imperialism on modern geopolitical balance” or “the successes and failures of British post imperial foreign and defence policy”. I will join in with the best of em….

    But let’s keep it at least a bit relevant…..ish.

      • I have have no idea, it may have been one of the most off on a tangent conversation strings I have ever seen on this site and lets be honest as a group of commentators we do tend to all drift in odd directions…..but the E7s Numbers being cut moving to a formula one driver….I literally have no idea….anyone want a game of monkey tennis……

  26. This decision is very short sighted. We are in a new cold war situation with China and Russia but the government are turning a blind eye to it from my perspective. Defence spending should be increased to 5% for the next 10 years at least. All our armed services are too small, especially the RN. The surface fleet needs 12 X type 26 and 8 X type 31 with another 4 bigger type 45s with greater capacity for missiles. Bringing the surface fleet up to 30, this is the minimum size not a maximum. The Army would be hard pressed to defend London let alone Britain. The RAF have too fue bases everything in clumped together with no real defiance from cruise missiles as mentioned above. The Thatcher peace dividend has been taken off limbs not the fat. I could go on but you get the gist.

    • Nothing to do with Thatcher, I think you mean the end of the cold War peace dividend.
      So in 1985 defence spending was 5.3% of GDP in 1997 it was 3.5% of GDP in 2001 it was 2.8% of GDP , 2008 2.3% of GDP, 2011 2.2% and 2019 2.1%

      But the figures from 2011 are not relevant to the previous figures because of the Boy George packing the defence budget with things like pensions, MI5, MI6 and GCHQ costs and the replacement cost for Vanguard.

      If you remove those things he added actual defence spending is 1.7% of GDP against France 1.8% and Germany 1.2% .

  28. Same source says reduction to 4 has been discussed with Boeing. MOD spokesman said that it was usual to have discussions with suppliers about cost savings when appropriate. Not denying report as ‘pure speculation’ so I suspect MOD have had talks about reducing costs with Boeing. As is usual with this kind of thing it may be that the most drastic option was pushed to the journalist for whatever reason, but other ways of cost reduction could be being discussed…all secondhand frames, equipment changes, mitigating exchange rate fluctuations by more work in UK etc, with MOD holding out the option of reduction to 3 or 4 if cost savings could not be made in other ways. After all, MOD more or less dismissed the offerings from Saab, Airbus, Japan and Israel out of hand and Boeing knew they were almost certain to get the order, so possibly were less generous than they could have been if a proper competition had been held with MOD seriously showing interest in the other offerings. In this respect MOD shot itself in the foot by publicly fawning over Wedgetail. After all, if you go to the BMW showroom and swoon over their latest model and dismiss to the salesman the competition from Mercedes, Audi etc, you are unlikely to get the most advantageous deal. I suspect we may still get 3, 4 or 5 aircraft and it will depend how successful MOD negotiations on cost reductions are and just how serious the MOD is about cutting the order if other cost reductions do not materialise, but I would not be surprised on a compromise of 4 Wedgetails with possible cost saving measures. I expect some very tough rounds of negotiations over upcoming requirements with more competitions to determine best value being held.

      • How many wagtails are the Germans buying? or the French and the rest?
        Three is enough for us if we look after ourselves as priority.

        • The French have 4 E3’s, and NATO 14. Don’t know if there’s any replacement planned, but haven’t they had upgrades that the RAF ones haven’t?

          Also for “Global Britain”, if you are intending to support Allies, you might want to be looking at having more than just the bare minimum to cover the UK with nothing spare for deployment I would have thought.

          Again, this is a UK program with no international partners involved, the costs are for the UK alone.

          • We have Sentry and will get Wedgetail to cover our own Global Britain interests. We pay the biggest European % £ for Nato so a chunk of the Nato-Otan planes are ours as well. Happy to support Allies who pull their weight.

          • Your Sentry’s are going away, 3 Wedgetails are if you factor in service and training barely enough to cover the UK. And how exactly do you think they are yours?

  31. So while we digest yet another rumour in defence review silly season it is interesting, at least to me, to speculate on where ISTAR might be going.

    In the space domain, its likely in future we will have far more pervasive, robust and survivable satellite surveillance from high satellite count LEO networks. A lot of work going on in this area in the US, both leveraging commercial networks such as Starlink and OneWeb as well as dedicated LEO defence networks.

    In the air domain perhaps we might see Taranis or similar developed into an attritable long range, persistent, low observable ISTAR, communications node and tanker platform for forward deployment where platforms like Sentry, Wedgetail, Shadow, Sentinel, Rivet Joint, Voyager etc cannot go without unacceptable risk in a hot war. The US Navy is already developing MQ-25 Stingray with a similar form factor for the tanker role, MQ-25 being a derivative from the US Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike (UCLASS) program, the latter perhaps being a little too threatening to the US manned fighter mafia.

    And then we should not underestimate the ISTAR capabilities of F35 and an optionally manned Tempest platform. It was mentioned in the recent Air & Space Power conference how during trials the F35B DAS system picked up and tracked a SpaceX Falcon 9 launch, through apogee, to re-entry from over 800 nautical miles away. Granted Falcon 9 is a very hot target for IR sensors to pick up but is another example of why a fifth generation aircraft is so much more than just its stealth characteristics in contributing to a system-of-systems picture of a conflict.

  32. Someone has decided there will be no major or minor conflict in Europe that envisages the United Kingdom ‘standing alone’. There is also the question of technological advances that makes, or soon will make, placing personnel in a tube re-breathing air for many hours unnecessary.

  33. Is three E7s enough, No, the Uk has commitments all over the world. Theoretically we need a few AWACS in Cyprus, possibly some in Oman plus NATO and home defence commitments. Its not only the E7s that could take a hit but remember Sentinel is to be scrapped as well. It seems that the complete intel fleet is being reduced to nothing but its intel that win battles.
    We either need a larger defence budget possibly 5% for ten years for equipment buildout reducing to 3% or we need to reduce our commitments.
    I sometimes wonder if it might be better to scrap our SSBNs and use that money for new equipment. If we need the nuclear option then possibly a sqn of B2s would be cheaper and/or extend the Astute class an insert two 8 drum VLS for cruise missiles.

  34. Oh God Political Correctness about the Ol’ Empire again. IF one wants such left-wing bias rubbish please head to the Philby Burgess & Mclean luvvies at the GUARDIAN. The BE wasn’t perfect but it was a damn sight better than what came before or after.

    • Nothing makes the British Empire look quite so good as what came after it. I remember sitting in cinemas (if you could find a seat that had not been slashed) watching black and white newsreels of distant sunny locations where the natives broke off throwing stones at squadies long enough to scrawl ‘British Go Home’ on a sun-baked wall. Well, we came home and they followed us. To escape home rule.

  35. Discussion on potential cuts must include the fact that Mr Cameron scrapped our flagship and sacked our ground attack pilots and planes under the cover of ‘Austerity’ measures. The reality was, he then went and spent extra billions on extra Foreign Aid instead.
    For some reason, the crowd in the Westminster have not rolled this back to what it was before despite public opinion being for this.
    Until this happens, short of funds, we will have a fleet of harbour queens and the RAF and Fleet air arm will have to keep every airframe they have flying. Some of our Pumas and Hawks are nearly 45 years old.(this actually, is a credit to British building). We can only afford half a dozen F-35’s a year and have to ask the Marine Corps to help out with numbers.
    Lobby for reduction in Foreign Aid, now.

    • Spoiler, you could give all the Foreign Aid budget to the MOD, it wouldn’t change anything, also do keep up the Foreign Office has already consumed the International Aid Department, so it’s their money now.

    • Agree with the overall lament on Cameron.

      I support overseas aid myself due to the soft power benefits but if an amount of it went to MoD instead I would not complain.

      Also, oft forgotten but of the 3 front line Harrier squadrons 2 were actually cut by Labour the year before, numbers 3 and 4 Sqns, while announcing the closure of Cottesemore.

      Made the culling of a single squadron fast jet type easier.

      A few years before JFH consisted of 1,3,4,20R, and 800,801,899NAS, 7 squadrons. All bar one scrapped by Labour.

      People often forget ( conveniently for some ) just what the previous governments did to defence prior to the 2010 tory massacre.

  36. It’s seems this is down to Boeing increasing the price from $1.9bn to $2.7bn for the 5 Wedgetails. If that is true I’d like to know why we signed a contract that allowed them to increase the price like this.

    Talks about reducing our order have been going in for months according to some sources. It’s hardly surprising given the cost increase.

    • On reading around on this subject I agree with RobW that this is more a procurement issue than on directly related to the SDSR. But I cannot image the MOD going back to the Government at this time for more money for a contract they only just signed. So they have to find a way of bring the cost back to that announced or find compensating savings elsewhere. Given that Marshall’s couldn’t accept the Boeing price to carryout the conversions I’d guess the cost of the conversions was underestimated at the first round. Conversion of second hand airframes is notoriously risky and time consuming given todays more demanding regulatory environment as all sorts of issues can be unearthed. Also there is no current production line for the E7 in the US so Boeing probably had old and/or poor figures for the conversion costs. Whatever the cause I remain convinced that a fleet of less than 5 seriously weakens the UK defence capability which is marginal given the rapid improvements in capability of our likely adversaries.

  37. Now that Sunak has put the budget to bed until next year, perhaps the unofficil leaks will desist.

    I really am not sure it is helpful to continue this practice – in times past when the Blimp would hurruf to the Times or Telegraph or the Admiral would grandstand in the House of Lords, it might have made some sense to be seen to be impacting on public opinion.

    In these times, how many give a stuff about defense?

    Now, if the leaks were X new orders would create Y new employment and Z growth, perhaps people would get behind the positivity; the negativity has to stop.

  38. I have posted this before but still valid and could help reduce cost for AEW.

    “Here’s an idea. Boeing has about 400 +/-, 737 Max planes in storage. The probability is these planes may never get permission to carry passengers. That’s if any passengers would trust flying in them.
    Why not buy a couple of dozen at bargain basement prices and convert them to missile trucks for F-35’s or basic Patrol/Strike/Ground Support aircraft.”
    EU aviation regulators have scheduled flight tests for Boeing’s troubled 737 Max plane.
    The European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) said the tests would take place in Vancouver, Canada in the week beginning 7 September.
    The announcement comes two months after US regulators began similar test flights for the jet.”

    The software problem can be fixed. But it will be much more difficult to gain the confidence of the public. In a way your post shows this reluctance to trust the plane. Commercial Airlines cannot risk investing billions in a plane that the public has no confidence in. But the RAF, if confident that the problem has been fixed could save billions.

  39. I’m interested in understanding how the RAF/Government arrived at the number of 5 to start with. Is this a legacy thing or based on a scoped need vs platform capability? Clearly budget is a big factor. The French Air Force has operated only 4 AWACS platforms for several years. What has their experience been in terms of meeting operational requirements?

    I’m no expert, but an RAF reduction to 3 platforms seems really light.

    • The numbers needed in a aquadron follow a standard pattern. For every 4 front line aircraft, there will be one in squadron reserve/in the garage, one in war reserve/deep maintenance and, simplifying here, one covering training/attrition reserve.

      With the original 7 Sentrys, 4 would have been front line with a 5th available at fairly short notice. As no aircraft and crew are airborne for 8 hours, . anywhere near 24/7 AWACS coverage would need the full 7 aircraft.

      5 cuts you down to 3 front line, which is obviously wafer-thin. 3 cuts you to 2 front line, which becomes rather token.

      Collectively, NATO Europe has a fair number of AEWs, but they are widely dispersed or at least used to be, with France doing its own thing in the Atlantic and Med, us doing our bit in Northern waters and so on. I wonder if a unified NATO force, including UK and France, would be a more efficient use of scarce resources?

      Though we would likely be looking at the Saab offering rather than the Boeing one today.u

    • The French only bought 4 aircraft and the UK 7 each to meet its National operating requirements. The UK must have given up on their original operating requirements for AEW operations which required 7 aircraft and have resorted to buying only what the budget will allow regardless of the real requirement – the P8 purchase is another example of this. The Government will never admit this and keep talking about quality of individual platforms but not spatial disposition of the threat and the real numbers required to counter this threat. Of course the Government can decide it will not go to war and provision defence accordingly.

      The French E3s came off the same production line as the UK E3s indeed it was a common purchase to get the best price at the time although each has their own National requirements which were added into the final contracts. The big difference is that French have routinely updated their aircraft which I guess enabled them to avoid the crippling costs to not only upgrade the mission system but also the basic platform which the UK found itself facing. I fear any replacement of the UK E3s will face the same financial challenges and the more unique the aircraft is the more expensive it will be to keep it up to date eg Sentinel.

  41. Seeing as this is a supposedly military site and not question time. I would just like to stay on topic and comment these are vital assets & I don’t believe that only three will be ordered the “journalist” that broke this story is the one & the same that broke the story that we were losing all MBTs. This was denied by the secretary of defence & as this is as far fetched as that story I take it with a huge pinch of salt.

    That being said I certainly don’t think we should overpay for this capability & there are other solutions out there.
    I sincerely believe all that is happening is that a no holes barred look at all capabilities is being brainstormed or thought clouded and someone is leaking this. For what ends I don’t know.

    Otherwise the British government is obviously shelving global Britain & we will have a defence force as long as that is what the government expects from our forces fair enough.

    If they want global Britain this simply won’t happen as the capability won’t exist, it is then up to the Chiefs of defence staff do their jobs properly & start saying no otherwise they will have serious blood on their hands.

    This is the pre-SDR circus & if not there will be serious consequences down the line for our position in the world.

  42. One would think that in relation to the safety and security of this nation, the UK Government would look at various options, put the contract out to tender, analyse and review the bids, play various defence companies against each other to get the best deal, highest capability and for the lowest price…. and what did they do? The complete opposite.

    This Government is moving from one procurement disaster to another and at the same time, making our country less safe and wasting more and more billions of tax payer’s money.

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