For the first time since 1995, a British naval vessel has made port in Brisbane, Australia.
To commemorate the occasion, local media were granted access aboard HMS Spey, and a special reception was hosted in celebration of the event.
HMS Spey, a Batch 2 River-class offshore patrol vessel, has been operating in the Indo-Pacific region since January 2022. During its deployment, the vessel has covered an impressive distance of over 69,793 nautical miles.
The ship boasts a crew of 46 sailors. Remarkably, there’s a crew rotation system in place: every while, half of the crew swaps out with colleagues from the UK. This innovative approach ensures that the Navy maximises the utility of its ships.
With crews spending up to nine months at sea each year, this rotation ensures the vessel remains operational throughout the entire year.
Having a whale of time šš³!
We have been at sea less than a week and seen #whales at sea! This is a first for us seeing this type of behaviour and allows us to conduct a secondary role of monitoring #ocean #biodiversity. #marinelife #NaturePhotography #nature #lifeatsea pic.twitter.com/MQ1vykhOnD
— HMS Spey (@HMS_Spey) August 4, 2023
We really should have embarked on something similar to the Riverās for global deployment a long time ago. Given that todays āfrigatesā are 8000t billion pound cruisers, having something cheap and easy to maintain all over the world allows us to have a much more cost effective fleet structure still able to deliver effects.
I Would really like to see one based in west Africa and another in east Africa as well as two in the pacific.
There are 2 in the Pacific already and the Gib based ship operates regularly off W Africa – as it is just now
Maybe we should explore a militarised river design for the T23. And equip it along the lines of what the Thai have done to theirs Htms Krabi 2 extra 30mm cannon aft of the bridge wings, a rapid fire 76mm gun and now harpoon. Th e design still lends itself to more upgrades a T32 Would have to be able to operate in a ASW roll, but there is room to carry a towed aray
There’s not really much point to that. Adding a 76mm and extra 30mm’s does not really let a River B2 prosecute more targets, and adds cost and complexity. Not to mention a new caliber. If you want to make it a bit more fighty it needs to have CIWS and CAMM realistically, at which point, with Harpoon, a 76mm, CIWS, CAMM, and some 30mm’s it’s a frigate with a frigate price tag.
agreed the rivers 2s are great at what they are very long range, good sea keeping and long endurance for their size..with a light crew requirementā¦they are long range very cost effective constabulary vessels..almost no point adding complexity to a constabulary vesselā¦you increase the crew size which buggers your endurance and cost effectiveness. Adding top weight and running the risk that some idiot will deploy it as a war fighting assetā¦. As soon as the T31s are ready these ships will be back in the places they should really be constabulary work in the med, home waters ( including the… Read more Ā»
So does a 30mm though.
And FWIW: I think the River B2’s constabulary role works better in the Pacific than in the North Atlantic, the only reason they should be withdrawn to the UK is if the B1’s are retired from service and something needs to take over the fisheries patrol services.
I would imagine the B1s will go as soon as the t31s take over in the pacific. They were only recommissioned to free up the B2s to take on some of the tasking. The B1s are 20years old now and the way they have been deployed means they have been worked harder than most other RN vesselsā¦so they will definitely be read for retirement in a few years. It was definitely worth recommissioning them when they had years left in the tank, but those years are now almost used up and they are definitely in the old and tired stage… Read more Ā»
Jonathan, I believe the batch 1s are due to retire in the early ’30s. As you noted, there tasks will be taken up by the Type 31 (and hopefully the type 32).
Cheers for that, was not aware. Im very surprised that they are planning to keep them running into the 30s that will make them 30 years old or there aboutsā¦
I imagine you’re right but I hope not. With only 5 T-31’s coming into service deploying 1-2 permanently to the Pacific is quite a commitment. I’d hope we see either a devolution of Fisheries protection to other agencies, or a new batch of OPV’s built, either to take over the B1’s or B2’s.
Yes, a T31 in the Pacific would be a commitment of x2 a River 2 crew.
The B1s don’t do much fisheries protection in the UK anymore. The Marine Management Organisation charters new commercial vessels from Sentinel and would only call on the Navy in an emergency.
Gotcha, so I’ll take that as more hope that we can keep all the B2’s on global deployments.
Interesting, wasn’t aware of that. What are they doing? Just MP?
Mostly. They’ll also train, polish off a few killer tomatoes I have no doubt, and rush Russians through the Channel.
If I recall correctly one of them (could have been Tyne) helped train the new MMO fisheries protection officers last year.
They exercise with foreign allies, pair up with the Irish reasonably frequently, station keeping, and the Japanese when they were over here last year. Most notably HMS Mersey was deployed to the Baltic earlier this year, Sweden, Finland and as far east as Estonia and Latvia.
Thanks.
Yes, it is interesting. How do the crew sizes of batch 1 and batch 2 compare? Building a couple of Batch 2 / 3 Rivers to replace them would be a tempting optionā¦.replace Echo and Enterprise with new cheap to run blue water OPVs.
No idea there mate. Assume very similar.
I’m a big fan of the B2s, just not a fan of turning them into full fat warships when there isn’t the need or the funds.
If the hydro stuff is becoming more UUV based as I read then why not, they could be duel role? I have always suspected the Echo’s had other non publicised roles too.
There must always be space in a navy for the less “fighty” assets.
Batch 1’s have a slightly lower crew compliment, I believe it’s max is around 30 which is the minimum a Batch 2 needs.
Thx
The problem is with a river is when the lead starts flying they arent as over engineered or crewed intensively to do battle damage repairs or cover injury in the crew. They are great for showing the flag but making a warship involves a lot more than bolting weapons on
It’s pretty surprising there hasn’t been a RN visit to Brisbane in almost 30 years and very few other visits to a key and close ally. T31/T32 are vital to rebuild the frigate and destroyer fleet to the 24 considered the bare minimum to meet all of the RN’s commitments. They will hopefully be cheaper than the uber specialist T45/T26 but they will still be big vessels and need to be properly equipped to function as effective escorts and offensive platforms. What’s sourly needed to compliment the high-end fleet is cheap but flexible patrol ship around 3,000 tons that can… Read more Ā»
I remember visiting HMS Rothesay there in the 1980s.
Darwin is a better place in Australia to see visiting ships, an Essex, and Australian LHA and Indian and Singaporean Assault ships in the last few days. Kinda cool watching Ospreys landing in HMAS Adelaide/ Canberra in the bay while Australian Patrol boats cruise past.
When you say “landing in” do you mean 9/11 stylee or do you, routine, landing on?
Point taken, landings looked pretty safe at least from a distance. American personnel are amused when we describe the USS Essex as ābigā. Sheās pretty big to us.
Sydney also had a “Quad” nations fleet visit the other day plus a Halifax from Canada. Quite a sight.
All the mothership blah blah, really angers me. We’ve been complaining about the numbers of ships food years, but suddenly we think it prudent to be able to do away with the two echo class ships which could be reconfigured to do just about anything. Fully weaponising those two ships would give the R.N two additional ships that could be forward deployed anywhere. No ships? We should be looking to enhance the fleet with what we’ve already got.archers and rivers could be upgraded to carry out real navy jobs. Even the Iranians are putting cruise missiles onto the roofs of… Read more Ā»
Just to put the RN River Class OPV deployment to Australian waters in some broader strategic perspective, concurrently the growing Quad alliance (U.S., Japan, India and Australia) is conducting exercise Malibar 2023 here with the U.S., Japan and Australia all contributing destroyers, India a destroyer and a frigate along with an Australian submarine and LHD and a USN fleet oiler, plus F35s,P8s and other air assets.
Except the reason Iran and countries do that is because they cant afford or build true warships. the Rivers are not true warships, they arent crewed to be warships, there not crewed for serious fights or battle damage repairs and they arent built with the same redunduncies.
There is more to warships than bolting weapons on.
A little pejorative I think. This article is a bit out of date but it does detail the structural, redundancy design mods which were built into the River 2 from the base Amazonas OPV. It is designed as a warship. As you say it needs the crew and some ( weapons upgrades. But put a Wildcat on it ( which it can refuel and re-arm) and it influences the sea area for more than 100 miles around. Interestingly I believe a Martlet fired from Wildcat recently shot down a test anti-ship drone.
https://thinkdefence.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/thoughts-batch-2-river-class/
Isnāt the issue crew numbers? According to wiki laying up Echo and Enterprise means 144 crew are theoretically ( subject to skills / training) available for other vessels. One thought might be ASW sonar skills for T23 or even T31.
Seems to be more excitement and coverage of this visit by British media than local Brisbane media with only one TV channel covering the visit and that using footage supplied by the RN and rolling out the RN press releases āhistoricā tagline. By contrast there was extensive coverage (multiple stories, interviews, ship access) of recent U.S. warships in Brisbane over the last few weeks for Talisman Sabre with all 4 main TV channels and local newspapers and online. Most common headline words describing US ships is āmassiveā (massive ship, massive force etc.) RN might need to up the ante up… Read more Ā»
Would fully anticipate that slated 2025 RN CSG will include multiple Oz port visits. The intriguing question may be whether NZ is included on itinerary, accompanying Astute class would be forced to temporarily detach. Perhaps finessed w/ temporary attachment of Collins class? š¤
Definitely more ships and boats needed.
The type 26 and 31 only replace whatās in service already so no increases there.
I also love these ships and would like to have seen us get more, but hopefully the days of slow building in Govan are over, and at Ā£130m per ship (including sundries) it’s debateable if they could be afforded right now. Maybe four more could be built under licence in Rosyth after the Type 31s (during inevitable arguments over the Type 32 contract).
HMS Trent is supposed to cover West Africa as well as the Med. I think most of East Africa was supposed to have been covered by LRG(S), although that’s now in doubt.
A squadron based on Gibraltar would give the nations navy a boost knowing that the service isn’t so isolated to the usual areas. As far as Africa is concerned I think it would be a good idea to have a T31 at Simon’s town near enough to be able to support the south Atlantic British areas. Giving the south African navy the next retiring type 23 in exchange for basing rights would be a win win for both parties.
Good Morning Andy. Sadly the SA Navy does not even have the funds to maintain it’s existing fleet let alone take on and crew an old T23 which will no doubt need considerable maintenance.On the subject of OPV’s I think we still have a couple of the 800 ton Israeli designed missile strike craft-potent little ships with 2x 76mm guns and missiles. Aparrently able to operate in Blue water but not happy in rough seas!
S Africa seems a closer ally to Russia than the UK, so basing any RN warships there seems unlikely.
Nor any need for the South Atlantic island fly speck possessions, and Falkland’s is its own garrison
Might be time for the UK and Europe to counter the Russia China influence a bit more with SA with a bit of positive reproachment before they have even more sway over whole of Africa! Might be a bit of a silly suggestion, but having the Olympics, Comm Games, or some other significant event could be a start. Not sure what’s happened there in the past.
Commonwealth Games is looking for a home for 2026. If a few other countries could help subsidise the cash, I think SA would be a great solution. The problem is, it’s an awful lot of cash. Gold Coast really splashed out, but even a cut-price games cost over half a billion quid, with only a fraction recouped in the short term.
Depends where in East Africa tbh, some parts of that theatre are not OPV friendly.
UK pulled out of the Indo Pacfic back in the 70s, as it was unaffordable
Even less so now.
There are no vital interests for Britain in the Pacific or East Asia ( since Hong Kong went)
I wish people would stop thinking along those lines . Those countries from NZ Australia in South to Japan Korea in north and everyone in between have capable naval forces of their own . France of course still has major territories in Pacific and has its military presence- off its own sovereign bases- to suit
We just joined the CPTPP, and given the absence of a post-Brexit EU trade deal, the growth of Pacific trade might well be considered a vital interest.
There was a UK-EU Trade deal after Brexit
EUāUK Trade and Cooperation Agreement Dec 2020
As the EU describes it
‘The EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement concluded between the EU and the UK sets out preferential arrangements in areas such as trade in goods and in services, digital trade, intellectual property, public procurement, aviation and road transport, energy, fisheries, social security coordination, law enforcement etc etc..
Theres still some rough edges but that happens with all trade agreements
Thanks. That’s good to hear. I got so turned off by all the arguing that I didn’t really keep up.
best response of the week , I didnt know either but checked
Seems we’re aspiring to restore an Indian/West Pacific RN presence, albeit sporadically. CSG 2022 went to East Asia, a major deployment. What we bring is support for allies & a show of force against CCP’s illegal ambitions in an area vital to UK trade.
China is seeking to build the largest, strongest military in the world in order to have their own way. That means subverting or defeating all the forces of freedom & democracy. Time we all wised up.
This Article states first RN vessel to dock in Australia in 30 years? I seem to recall one of the type 45 destroyers HMS Daring possibly sailing out to Australia, not so many years ago. Perhaps those who know better than me would care to comment and correct me if I am wrong or is it the case HMS Spey is the first RN vessel to dock in the Port of Brisbane in 30 years?
First visit to the Port of Brisbane in 30 years.
Last time the RN was off the east coast HMS Nottingham hit a well charted rock causing a large gash in bow and cost Ā£40 mill to repair. Could very well have lost the ship
https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-night-wolf-rock-ripped-into-britains-finest-20020709-gdffqa.html
Okay, understood. I remember what happened to HMS Nottingham, unfortunate incident but the crew saved their ship, which was a credit to all of them.
Gross negligence on the part of who was navigating at the time and the CO was criticised for leaving his ship at the same time as medical evacuation by helicopter.
Unfortunate accident – no way
These long periods of time away from family, is a massive strain on crews home relationships. I do wonder if the navy puts enough consideration in this matter
Isn’t that why they fly them home every few weeks? As I understand it, the B2 River class runs a rotation where only two third’s of the ship’s company is on board. The 46 crew mentioned will be two thirds of a total company of about 70, the rest will have rotated home.
I’d have thought that would be far less stressful than a straight seven month deployment. I read four weeks on and two weeks off for the Falklands, but I’d guess it might differ in the Pacific with longer flight times.
River class is a winner, exotic locations, crew rotation, cheap and offering uk presence around the world. With the knowledge that itās not for fighting, but has cooperative police role.
Brisbane isnt an exotic location. Cheaper airfares mean real holidays in actual exotic locations are possible, or just go to Barcelona
Itās just a shame the could not have given the rivers a hanger for a wild cat, the level of Utility a small ship fight would give these patrol ships cannot be understated. Disaster, hunting pirates, drug smugglers etc etcā¦.monitoring sea lanes.
What use is the hangar if we don’t have the Wildcats?
Instead Rivers should be using cheaper rotary UAVs that can be operated from a POD like the Peregrine, or if we can’t even afford that, something like the Evolve Dynamics Sky Mantis.
On the bright side operating smaller UAV’s is easy: The River B2’s are designed with TEU container spaces that can serve as hangars and control stations for UAV’s.
But if there was one thing they should have been built with it’s a hangar IMO (too bad it’d be a difficult and expensive retrofit, still the flight deck alone is a step up from the B1’s).
The RN has 28 wildcats which would have been able to generate 10 small ship flights at anyone timeā¦thatās plenty to cover the escorts and the the B2s if they had had hanger spaceā¦ā¦small UAVs can do some things but they cannot move people and materials around they cannot act as a presence to deterā¦..an armed and manned helicopter is going to make the pirate or drug runner surrender ā¦..they also donāt have the range, a small UAV is not a replacement for a small ship flight itās a handy adjunct.
Helicopters are far more flexible, no doubt, but that comes at a physical cost. Even if you assigned ten aircrews to the five ships, dual aircrewing to match the ship’s three-watch availability, you still wouldn’t be able to cover as many continuous hours in the air each day as if you flew Camcopters. It’s not as comfortable sitting in a helicopter for hours as in the ship’s control room. Ideally you want to run both: drones for continuous monitoring and helicopters to act when necessary. Regardless of aircrew availability, I’m not as convinced as you there are four or five… Read more Ā»
previously said before on UKDJ any high end tech kit cant be serviced or maintained cheaply far from UK bases. whereas low tech parts for rivers can be delivered second class post, serviced by local shipyards.
Royal navy is overstretched, no enough numbers to cover even half the seas, 17 escorts is a ridĆculous number , 6 more frigates, t32? are absolutely necesary and more visits to the pacific rim are needed.
14 or 15 escorts I think you’ll find Micki. This is the nadir of RN escort strength.
Agree with some of the comments. The RN could really use a more heavily armed and slight larger corvette/ frigate sized vessel for these longer range deployments.
Still we don’t have the fleet for this at the moment and the batch 2 rivers are all we have available.
A 2nd batch of type 31s and an announcement on the type 32s are really needed.
Photon torpedoes are well hidden down under…
Crazy that it’s taken this long, but a good sign, and proof of concept for the new Type 31s potentially to take over from in their constabulary role.
What do you mean proof of concept?
The OPVs are far better in the constabulary/presence role than the T31s would be. Why waste warships on roles they are not designed for? If you used 4 T31s to do the B2s role (excluding Falklands), you’ll end up with far less overseas patroling, and even fewer frigates undertaking current frigate tasking than we have right now ā indefinitely!
This is my worry. Hopefully Trent and Mersey will remain on their respective stations at a minimum, but Spey and Tamar in the Pacific should also remain IMO.
When things are friendly keeping 2 OPVs in the region is a good baseline commitment, doesn’t pin too much of our forces to the AO. But if things get a bit rowdy the Navy can send an Inspiration, City, or even a full CSG to show increased commitment and concern. The higher the baseline threshold is, the harder it is to increase it when you want to signal a warning.
True. If the current state of play remains, I wouldn’t mind us also having a T31 forward based in say Brunei, in a similar way to the frigate based in the Gulf. Also good for multilateral IndoPac exercises. However I don’t see that primarily used for goodwill visits in the same way as the B2s. With a Mk 41 and possibly the FC/ASW, a T31 would also be a small power radiating into the SCS. Just a reminder.
Brunei – no. Too close to the action. You could loose the ship before you knew what was happening. Singapore or Australia will give you time to respond if you are in port & a navy & airforce to hook up with if thatās whatās needed. Pulling off a Pearl Harbour in Singapore these days would be more than difficult. Brunei, not so much.
I’ve said before, considering the amount of work, and the places they go to, I personally think that the description or designation as ‘River Class’ vessels, does not really do these Ships justice.
They are bigger than WWII Corvettes, and as valuable as they were. Were they not known years ago as destroyer escorts?