French nuclear submarine Améthyste visited Faslane naval base near Glasgow in Scotland this week.
The visit isn’t the first time a French nuclear submarine has visited Scotland, not by a long shot, as the increasing number of visits by the French and U.S. Navy in recent years reflects the enhanced security posture in the North Atlantic.
Another French submarine, the Suffren, was at the base earlier this year.
French Rubis-Class inbound to Faslane this morning@MarineNationale@NavyLookout@WarshipCam
#photography #Frenchnavy #marinenationale #navy #canon #canonuk #scotland #Clyde #canonphotography #shipping pic.twitter.com/949aGcZl2r— Michael Cuthbert Photography (@MichaelJWC626) December 26, 2022
The Rubis class is a class of nuclear-powered attack submarines built for the French Navy. The primary role of these submarines is to perform a variety of missions, including intelligence gathering, surveillance, and naval warfare.
Recently, nuclear submarines from France and the U.S. were recently berthed in HMNB Clyde at Faslane near Glasgow in Scotland.
With the threat from Russian submarines to undersea cables and infrastructure Faslane is increasingly becoming the most strategic base in NATO.
It’s one of the things lost in the independence debate is the absolute vital strategic need for Scotland and its territory by the other three nations of the UK and the importance to the entire western world of keeping the UK together. Arguably the Act of Union was the foundation stone of the modern western world and its removal could have grave consequences.
https://youtu.be/ph5H0YFxbJI
Scotland does not need to remain within the UK to benefit from the attention and efforts of NATO and the EU.
Unless, of course, the UK/England do everything to undermine cooperation.
the EU is not a military alliance and you may notice that Ireland has zero NATO footprint. Scotland is much more likely to go the way of Ireland if it did become independent. It’s military spending is likely to be very Low as it tries to lower public spending to meet the Maastricht criteria and a lease on Faslane is far from certain, the SNP and in particular their Green coalition partners are still very anti nuclear.
Scotland itself won’t need to have huge military spending, a bilateral treaty can be made to strengthen the region with the US/NATO and some EU countries. I know you want to find every reason to keep Scotland in the UK, but even if it is not optimal, Scotland outside the UK is not really a problem militarily. The biggest problem will be for the UK/England, not for Scotland or the EU. It will also be a small problem for NATO, as it will weaken the UK, which remains a key partner in the alliance, but nothing “deadly”. The West does… Read more »
Especially considering aren’t the majority of subs in nato nuclear?
No but that is not relevant. The majority of British, French, and American subs are nuclear.
So you are saying Scotland won’t have to spend money to defend itself just rely on NATO the alliance they won’t be a member of! As has been pointed out the EU has no military alliance for Scotland to rely on that’s even assuming they can meet any criteria to join(doubtful for quite a while after independence)
Can you avoid changing what I say to your will? I said “will not need to have huge military expenditures”. Not huge != 0 Also, not being in the alliance does not mean you can’t have bilateral cooperation with the members, which I also said. As for Scotland in the EU, be sure that the EU will be very easy on Scotland if they apply, don’t talk as if you don’t know. Even if they cannot join the EU instantly, they will have a special relationship and facilities with the union/market to help them. As for the military aspect, again,… Read more »
As with the case of Sweden,Finland they had something to add to bilateral agreements before they applied to join NATO. ie very capable militaries. What would Scotland offer in return for basically NATO protection? Would Scotland foot the bill for Faslane,Lossiemouth Kinross etc? Very doubtful!
They will still need to meet certain economic conditions to join the EU but a country with no ferry links to the EU and all goods having to come through England good luck with that!
Obviously Scotland government has said it would keep faslane as the main naval base and keep Lossiemouth and barracks. Scotland would be like similar countries of similar size in nato and Europe. The point being part of nato and strong relations with the uk. With the rest of the uk still having its military the overall uk forces would be the roughly the same. As lots of people keep saying Scotland is the poor man of the uk robbing the rest of the uk. So if it left no doubt the rest of the uk would have more money for… Read more »
You are making a straw man argument I think.
“Lots of people” are not most people, just a few on the indie side.
The point being that whenever this Scotland issue comes up on here, things said like the Barnet formula, spends to much etc etc gives the impression from those making those statements that the rest of the uk would be better off financially without Scotland part of it.
The SNP will think they can have it for free, or even hawk out the Faslane base to the highest bidder no doubt.
And independent Scotland would have to apply to both EU and NATO membership. I don’t see a problem here.
Some of us a very bored with the rhetoric coming from the SNP, so much so, that rather than debate this issue with you, as much of what you/we say cannot yet be proven, many of us south of the border are quite happy for Scotland to go its own way. In fact I, and many others, couldn’t give a flying fuck. Like you said, it wouldn’t effect the actual physical defence of the UK, and its NATO commitments that much (although the SNPs anti-nuke is one to be considered).
The point that made me jump in this infernal “debate” is this sentence from the first comment. and the importance to the entire western world of keeping the UK together. But it is not up to the UK to choose whether Scotland can be independent, and absolutely not up to the Western world. This is the 21st century. Every people has the right to self-determination. To tell the truth, I don’t know if it’s a good solution for the Scots or not… That’s not the point. Just as the UK chose to leave the EU, Scotland can choose to leave… Read more »
Agreed, but the SNP argue the toss that BREXIT took Scotland out of the EU, and are now wanting to take the Scottish people out of the UK with very similar numbers for and against! Like I said, many of us don’t give a flying fuck, and the more the SNP whine, the more they are welcome to go! Life is a learning curve, we all make our choices and ride our bang up! Cheers.
As a Scottish person I wish the independence thing would go away. I’m sick to the back teeth talking about it on here. In my actual life it hardly ever gets a mention and if it does it’s normally one of these nut jobs like the 5G mob, covid vaccine bill gates mind control fruit loops.
Let’s make the best of now and worry about the future when it happens.
One final point I would vote no if a vote actually happens within next 20 odd years as it goes against what was said originally.
The Scottish people were fully aware of the pending Brexit Referendum when they voted to stay in the UK, and told the SNP to get on with running Scotland rather than continue droning on about Sindy.
As I see it, the debate is basically closed for a generation, as promised by the Scottish Government.
well certain senior ex nato officers have said if an independant Scotland closes the base the USA will block them from NATO
England has no power, government, parliament, supreme court, first minister – so no need to worry about England.
Horsepuckey and pigspittle , Hermes. Scotland belongs in the UK whether the little indies think so or not. Scotland benefits from being in the UK, and the UK benefits as well.
But it is not up to the UK to decide whether or not Scotland belongs to the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination
Welcome to the 21st century.
Unfortunately, largely true. I live in the Republic of Ireland. Under the pretext of neutrality, defence spending is less than 0.3% of GDP – essentially the country gets a free ride under the umbrella of NATO, US, and the UK. Russian naval exercises off the Irish coast at the start the Ukraine war was a bit of wake call. When Sweden and Finland applied to join NATO there was (shock, horror!) opinion articles in local newspapers suggesting that Ireland should do the same. After considering the options, in September 2022 the Irish government announced that the defence spending would increase by about 50% over… Read more »
Independent Scotland will not be part of NATO initially at least and will have no bigger armed forces than Ireland so will clearly be a very weak link. NATO will be weaker without a unified UK – in the Atlantic and North Sea at least
i don’t think we Scots have any desire to leave NATO even after independence. The electorate would not sanction it
I always find it weird that you can see Faslane from Google maps satellite view, you can even see what I’m guessing is a vanguard class along side. However if you go to the French equivalent (can’t remember the name of the top of my head, pretty sure it’s in Brittany) it’s all pixilated.
If you are ever up there, you can drive round Gareloch Head and onto Rosneath. In doing so you can look across the Loch to Faslane. There is little point in pixelating a sat view if you can see what’s going on from a mile across the Loch.
L’île longue.
The government just has to ask google for it… nothing special.
As far as I know, this is a legal necessity(mandatory to hide military infrastructure, at least the most importants) for Google in France.
But it’s not like Russia and China are going to depend on google map to get their data…
Especially with years between photos…
I have to disagree mate, seeing the Russian efforts in Ukraine over the last 10 months, getting some intel from Google would seem like top tier intel gathering which deserves a medal and a Skoda for the person responsible for connecting to the internet!
I follow you if the images are recent.
And I hope google does not update the map every day or week in Ukraine.
But don’t forget that apart from google map, many industries around the world use satellites (optical/EM) for commercial/scientific purposes, so google is not the only one that can provide precious intel.
It’s just the easiest for the common.
You can see plenty of classified things in the UK on GE and Street View.
Only hiding them underground can escape that.
Pixilating places would be like a moth to a candle to researchers that actively look for stuff, best not to draw attention to places by such censorship.
Also, it is not always the location as such, but what role takes place in individual buildings. That even GE cannot deduce.
Nice to have our french friends enjoy the faslane hospitality.
In other news the USA just increased its defence spending 10 percent! With a democrat president in charge
Japan has increased their spending by 100%. We (UK) are a second rate power with delusions of being 1st rate.
Yet China, despite its numbers is still classed as a regional power, because it doesn’t have a global footprint like we do. The UK is very much a first rate power, and nobody is pretending we are some we are not. We are not the US, we don’t have 11 carriers and over 60 nuclear subs and a huge Army. We are a globally deployable force with excellent equipment. British training and doctrine is still what many nations look up too. Our global infrastructure and logistics set us apart from the rest. Our influence and diplomatic service provide reach well… Read more »
😎
Bravo. Need increases in numbers though, Robert, at least in certain niche enabling areas.
We do indeed Daniele. But I certainly don’t regard us as 2nd rate. Some are never happy unless they are putting us down. There are many frustrations with UK defence, but also a lot of good. We might not be able to build tanks and other critical Army vehicles like we used too, but we can build T26 Frigates, fantastic aircraft carriers, and mind boggling complex nuclear submarines. Equipment other nations could only dream of having the infrastructure and work force to build. We all share the frustrations with governments of the last 40 years with bad defence decisions, but… Read more »
Agreed, I try to see the many positives too.
Slightly OT (sometimes have to stretch to find a relevant article to insert a comment), just read that SSN(R) will be equipped w/ a VLS, per info from H.I. Sutton. Rationale appears to be to increase future hypersonic and other weapons interoperability. Huh, the blokes down at the Admiralty do apparently have a clue…🤔😳😉😁
…interoperability w/ USN. 🙄 (There are some definite drawbacks to stream of consciousness style of texting. 😳🥴🙄)
By choice of left-wingers in both parties!😙
That reminds me I have a Haggis in the freezer.