Home Air Here’s how to land an F-35B jet on HMS Queen Elizabeth

Here’s how to land an F-35B jet on HMS Queen Elizabeth

127
Here’s how to land an F-35B jet on HMS Queen Elizabeth

The world of aviation has always been a source of fascination for many people. The idea of flying at breakneck speeds through the clouds, manoeuvring through complex airspace, and landing on an aircraft carrier deck has always been the stuff of dreams for many aviation enthusiasts.

With the advent of Microsoft Flight Simulator, the ability to simulate these experiences has become more accessible than ever before.

Recently, a renowned aviation YouTuber named cgaviator captured the attention of aviation enthusiasts worldwide by successfully and (more importantly) realistically flying and landing an F-35B from and on the British aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, using Microsoft Flight Simulator.

For background, he’s is a real pilot, and he has over 2500 hours on aircraft, including the Hawk and Tornado GR4, as well as over seven years as an instructor in fast jet and turboprop aircraft. You can find out more about Chris and his set-up by clicking here.

The video has almost hit 300,000 views from aviation enthusiasts. Many of you will know we have never covered YouTube stuff before, but there’s a good reason for this article… the video helped me when playing Microsoft Flight Simulator. Plus, it’s pretty interesting.

It is impossible to stress the fun of being able to replicate these experiences at home using Microsoft Flight Simulator. The cost and difficulty of becoming a pilot, let alone being able to fly an F-35B and land on an aircraft carrier, may be out of reach for many people. Most people.

Pictured: UK test pilot Peter Wilson, conducts the first SRVL on board HMS Queen Elizabeth.

The F-35B is an extremely sophisticated fighter jet that can land vertically and take off in relatively confined spaces. It is a useful asset for aircraft carriers lacking the necessary runway length for conventional takeoffs and landings. It takes a lot of training and experience to land an F-35B on an aircraft carrier deck, and the video shows how much finesse and skill are needed to pull off this move, even in a game.

Honestly, go subscribe to his channel. You will not regret it.

Hold on, what is ‘SRVL’ again?

As we all know, the F-35B is a short takeoff and vertical landing variant of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft that is designed for use on aircraft carriers.

SRVL stands for ‘Shipborne Rolling Vertical Landing’. The SRVL technique allows the F-35B to land on the carrier in a short distance by rolling forward and using the lift generated by its wings to maintain its descent.

A simulation of SRVL shown by the Ministry of Defence in 2017.

This technique is considered to be a safer and more efficient method of landing than the traditional vertical landing method, as it requires less fuel and allows the aircraft to carry a heavier payload.

During an SRVL landing, the F-35B approaches the carrier at a steep angle and uses its lift fan and thrust vectoring nozzle to slow down and control its descent. As the aircraft touches down on the carrier’s deck, it continues to roll forward, using the lift generated by its wings to maintain its descent until it stops.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

127 Comments
oldest
newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Steve
Steve
1 year ago

I had stumbled onto this vid on youtube last night, the level of detail in the flight sims these days is amazing.

Nicholas
Nicholas
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Do you remember the DOS game AV-8B Harrier Assault? Great game/sim but as you say things have moved on somewhat.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

It boils my blood every time the BBC or Sky news has a “report” with some retired General bemoaning the state of the Army and blaming the money spent on carrier strike as being the reason (not their continued cluster **** of vehicle procurement program or desperate attempt to save every cap badge) SRVL is the kind of innovation that’s allowed us to build a truly world class carrier capability on a tiny budget. Now with countries like Singapore and Japan opting to buy F35B we can open up naval aviation to a number of Allie’s and build a truly… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim
Grinch
Grinch
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Amen bro

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

100% 👍🏻

Mark B
Mark B
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Surely any mention of the military by the media is good news. The generals would be ignored if the BBC and Sky didn’t want to instill fear in the population in order to get a story and Army kit is a talking point at the moment. They would have admirals on if they could find any problems with the RN. The generals are simply being oportunistic in an attempt to get an injection of cash aren’t they? Fortuneately kit for the Army is cheaper and has a shorter lead time. I’m thinking we need to boost our F35 numbers but… Read more »

Angus
Angus
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark B

Shorter lead time and cheaper for Army Kit? Ajax is all one has to say. The Army is outdated and needs to come into the 21st Century.

Mark B
Mark B
1 year ago
Reply to  Angus

Most major public sector procurements have had their challenges some perhaps more than others. We are yet to see if Ajax will ultimately bear fruit or die. It is a risky & difficult strategy to develop & build a 21st century piece of kit from scratch without some problems. QE Carriers, type 45, F35, Ford Class Carriers etc. With Ajax there will be options if problems still remain. Redesign in total or partially. Upgrades. When in production Ajax will be built in weeks not decades. Off the shelf kit is an option with the Army or even buying the design… Read more »

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago
Reply to  Angus

To be devils advocate here,
If Ajax had come in on time we would all have been saying money well spent! However with its problems correctly identified and being sorted it’s called money wasted while being fixed!
In reality this has not cost the Army anything but time as the costs of the fixes have been born by GD! I was around when CVRT and Warrior were put into service and we all took the piss at the problems they had but here they are 40 odd yrs later still going! Hopefully the same will be said about Ajax.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacko

Ajax is the ultimate outcome of the FRES programme, which suffered absurd delays and csot over-runs largely because senior decision makers kept changingt their minds about both the requirements and how much they were willing to spend on them- leaving the contractor and the in-house development effort pursuing a moving target.

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian

Yep your right but the cost of Ajax despite the delays and problems basically hasn’t changed.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

RN – £6Bn – 2 x QEC
Army – £5Bn – 26 unserviceable AJAX
Army – £3Bn – previous armoured program – scrapped.

The army have been given the money and wasted it. That isn’t RN’s fault.

RN have spent theirs comparatively well.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

Exactly, it’s the soldiers on the ground I feel sorry for. Lions lead by donkeys and all the time they find someone to blame “politicians did not give us money or the navy wasted it” blah blah blah. Military procurement is difficult for sure but acquiring land systems is by far the easiest thing. A wide choice of off the shelf options including domestic suppliers with batch numbers still in the hundreds or thousands. That’s something the RAF and RN can’t imagine these days and both have to painstakingly maintain their domestic supply chains. But the Army brass knows better… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Weight and size are more of an issue with land vehicles to be totally fair.

Aircraft do require a level of weight design disciple that army would do well to learn from.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

All that gold plating weighs a tonne 😀

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Isn’t up to the DS and MOD to keep the forces and all their procurement in line? They’ve got to be ultimately responsible for all the debacles going on. Hopefully more good happening than ugly. Funny how “Ajax” has suddenly come good now. Probably still as noisy as ever…Lol 😁

Ian M.
Ian M.
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

No, it’s not. LOL😁

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian M.

Have they sorted the actual issues out or just given everyone bigger noise reduction head phones and bigger ear plugs? 😆. How many years has it been to fix this? Anyway as Sargent Schultz use to say “I know nothing!”… and I really don’t! Lol. So roll on “Ajax”. 🇬🇧

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

It’s been fixed apparently 😆 Ian M will know more. “The latest version of Ajax includes heavier density foam in the front seats and control joysticks – used to aim Ajax’s 40mm cannon – which are no longer fixed to the hull. The addition of rubber seals between the joysticks and Ajax’s metal frame has drastically reduced the vibrations. For the first time, troops are also issued two pairs of ear defenders, a standard ‘Crew guard’ defender over their ears and a tiny inner-ear protector made of rubber. The latter is rolled between finger and thumb by the user, to… Read more »

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

This all sounds good but have the actual noise levels been reduced besides the vibrations from previous levels? Hope Ian M. can give us some more details.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

What I mean is the Ajax now actually quieter than it was? Excessive external noise for a recce vehicle can’t helpful.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

As you say, one for Iam M!

In my opinion, this sounds like a very poor attempt to fix the problem properly and move on leaving us with a dysfunctional piece of kit that will not stand the test of time.

Two sets of earplugs?

Rubber seals?

Cannon no longer fixed to the hull?

Plus, a further 18 months of testing!

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Latest and it seems like progress is being made. It can turn a corner!

01 MARCH 2023

Ajax armoured vehicle has turned a corner, according to UK MoD” 😂 Ajax has turned a corner! 😂
Ben Wallace, visiting Bovington on 22 February to witness Ajax trials, also spoke of Ajax “turning the corner”. 😂

“Janes understands that work is underway to reset the programme, with a new timetable to be agreed on the introduction of Ajax vehicles into operational service with the British Army.”

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

And may Ajax turn many more corners!… Lol 😁

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Another potential customer lost!

The agency estimated the value of the contracts to be awarded under the agreement at several tens of billions of Polish zlotys, with deliveries of the prototypes by mid-2023 and the first-production vehicles in 2024–25.”

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Quietly!

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

“ For the first time, troops are also issued two pairs of ear defenders, a standard ‘Crew guard’ defender over their ears and a tiny inner-ear protector made of rubber.

The latter is rolled between finger and thumb by the user, to produce a custom fit, then pushed down inside the ear’s external auditory canal.”

Great now the crew can add ear infections to the problems they encounter.

How on earth is that a solution IRL to workplace noise. We couldn’t fix it so we mitigated it.

Jokes?

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago

I just hope this is poor reporting rather than the actual fixes.

If not, we really are in trouble.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

2500 separate requirements for an OTS solution. That’s not DS coming up with that or civilians at the MOD. That’s a wide bunch of over promoted officers trying to make a mark on a project for no reason other than to satisfy their careers goals.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Yup. The system needs a fundemental change. Enough said, or I’ll end up going off on one – again!

Cheers CR

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Hi Quentin, I read somewhere recently that the fixes to the Ajax were to the crew seats and headphones..! Although I think changes have also been made to the suspension. Thses change should at least allow the crews to man the vehicles but it suggests that the fundemental problem with the vehicle still exist. SO I hope the headphones are reliable! Just to point out that the vehicle apparently weighs 50 tonnes and can do 70mph! I haven’t verified those numbers but if true it is a beast. Seems to me that army wanted a CVR(T) crossed with a MBT..!… Read more »

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Hi CR, thanks for your and everyones replies above. Always good stuff. Are you sure it’s 70mph and not 70kmh? That’s bloody fast if mph!! Hope the tracks stay on!! 😁 😆😂

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Good point about the mph vs kmh. The article said mph (err, I think 🙂 ) I kind of went along with it because I knew that the CVR(T) could do 60mph. I followed one on the A303 doing over 50mph, so I figured new vehicle might be capable of going silly fast..! A heavy vehicle going pretty fast is going to rattle a lot.

Cheers CR

Mark B
Mark B
1 year ago

At the end of the cold war there seemed to be indecision about what to do about the Army. What sort of conflict was it preparing for. Was it even needed on mainland Europe for example. Much easier to invest in the RN & RAF and see defer decisions on the Army. If circumstances changed it is far easier to respond quicker to deficiencies in the Army than the RN for instance. If there is investmentment going on in an organisation that feeds through to the people & their enthusiasm & motivation. Time for renewed investment in the Army?

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Mark B

Exactly, if you ever need a big army which from time to time we do no peace time force will ever be large enough or probably equipped right so you need to build an army up over several years. Ukraine now has a 1 million man army in the field built in the space of a year. It’s not pretty but two or three years from now it will be every bit as good as any professional army. The problem with the British army leadership is a desire to preserve historical units at all costs and shoehorn them in to… Read more »

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Army Top Brass bemoan every other service. its because its all they can do is Moan, Yet they killed Warrior and they nearly Killed Ajax. Ukraine is Full of Army Uniform rejected due to not fit for purpose, because they cannot spell on a procurement form

Klonkie
Klonkie
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Well said Jim- good post.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Klonkie

Thanks

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Like to see Australia get a medium sized carrier with a dozen or so F35Bs if it affordable and doable.

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Mmmm. No need or money tbh. Aus is linked to US so carriers aplenty there and the UK is building up it’s carrier force. Aus will be part of those CBG’s if needed. It’s focus is SSN’s.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Maybe not a priority. Agree that subs are important, but they’re a way off. Air projection at sea and distance is always useful and will be increasingly in the SE Asia region. And with the RAN possibly looking at getting 3 more AAWs and 6 ASW corvettes they might also need an extra oiler.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  OldSchool

For all the talk of F35B not being able to operate off of Canberra I’m pretty sure in a pinch it could easily be done. But as you say with the US having some 20 carriers Japan 2 and the UK 2 all capable of operating F35 it’s not a priority Australia needs to fight in a coalition operation.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Agreed. The army is in the mess ( largely, but not totally ) of its own making.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

F35B SRVL will be the focus of HMS Prince of Wales’s deployment to the US later in the year. 👍

John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

It will be very interesting to really wring this capability out, sea state limits, isometric loads etc…

Did SRVL require a change to the flight control software?

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

I don’t believe so John. They land in a similar fashion at Marham on a regular basis, but without having to stop so short, so did the Harrier back in the day. But doing it on a carrier is another matter.

Chris
Chris
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

Yes it did. Lockheed integrated it per the UK’s request starting in 2012. The original USMC spec only required vertical landing.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Prince of Wales has a Bedford array fitted to aid with the SRVL, will be interesting to learn how well it performs.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Will be an interesting deployment for the flight deck crews and all involved in air ops. 👍

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Why is it called a Bedford array? Is it made from old Bedford truck headlights, brake lights and indicators.
Is it the same as the meatball light bar thing the USA use currently and the RN used to use?

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Could be a pun as it’s a series of lights embedded in the flight deck along the centre-line. It was proven in hundreds of SVRL landings using a modified Harrier using both Charles de Gaulle and Illustrious.

The brightest light at any time is the pilot’s visual target with regard to the correct glide slope while stabilised from the ship’s pitch and roll. Meanwhile the HUD shows a dotted line based upon the aircraft’s current glide slope. The pilot’s aim is to manoeuvre the aircraft so the dotted line passes over the target light.

It’s not what the USA uses.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Ahh the lights are actually in the deck. That’s completely different to the light board meatball thing.

Greg Smith
Greg Smith
1 year ago

Chris is lovely fella (has that term been banned yet???) and always takes time to respond to questions and comments. His flying skill and finesse shines through, even in a game/sim.

Last edited 1 year ago by Greg Smith
John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg Smith

Greg, fair warning, please edit and add ‘ Chris is a lovely/ fella / non binary/ they/ them/ it/ something or nothing.

How much longer must we put up with type of male unconscious bias 😂

Richard M
Richard M
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

Being now very confused as to waht to call my self Male/female or what( I certainly have not changed from being a full red blooded male as far as I know) I believe that sector has over 50 definitions! However I note with interest that at times you can still see a person wearing a skirt when in uniform. Please advise how I should adress such a person ( I think the world has gone mad)

John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard M

I think the fact you even dared to ask Richard, means you need to be dragged off to re- education camp these days…..

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  Richard M

Richard wrote:

“” Please advise how I should adress such a person ( I think the world has gone mad)””

Its all crap, when we talk or refer to people we do so in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd person.
1st Person: Is when we talk about ourselves, I, me, we
2ndPerson: When we talk, refer to somebody directly: You.
3rd Person: When we talk about somebody else, He,Him,she,

https://i.postimg.cc/B6FsCwTQ/Opera-Snapshot-2023-03-01-040724-www-grammarly-com.png

Roger
Roger
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg Smith

Making assumptions about gender these days is going where angels fear to tread.

Greg Smith
Greg Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  Roger

Chris sounds like a fella, but I suppose owt is possible nowadays on t’interweb. Saw a couple of alternates in the kebab shop last Friday night. They might have big fake tits, long legs, stockings and a nice wig, but at the end of the day, they’re still a bloke, no matter how many Stellas you’ve had imho. 👍🏿

John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg Smith

To be fair, they might have been under cover, (gender offender branch) police officers, attempting to solicit those with 9 pints of Stella induced, semi conscious bias…..

Last edited 1 year ago by John Clark
Greg Smith
Greg Smith
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

Remember, when this is all done and dusted, you mentioned semis, not me. 👍🏿

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Greg Smith

I just go with what ever is normal. Never had anyone say anything. I’m happy to be corrected nicely.
Everyone should be accepting of mistakes with words.
Just yesterday I said to a girl at work I you do a good bee gee. She said what did U say? I said beegee, she looked confused and I said beegee the group singing the song.
She went bright red and said I thought you said BJ. She didn’t know who they were only knew the song from the work radio.

Jonny
Jonny
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Yes and it gets completely blown out of proportion. People on this site seem to be acting like if they called a trans female a man they would smash their face in. Hint: they won’t. They’ll just calmly correct you. These types of people are against any progressive change. 50 years ago they’d be against homosexuality, who knows maybe they still are… This is sadly what happens when people are brainwashed by the daily fail. I’d bet none of these commenters have even spoken to a trans person. If someone prefers to be called by a certain pronoun why is… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonny

Anyone can call themselves whatever they want, and if that was all it was, a person’s preference, then no issues from anyone I would imagine. It however becomes an issue when people are forced to change their terminology and language, by the organisations they may work for or by the Government. It would seem the “trans” is the new pressure group, whereby if anyone has a different view or opinion on the matter they are vilified and shouted down. Look at the women protesting against the ongoing trans pressure groups, they are abused online and in person. Is that acceptable?… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

It gets a mess when it becomes forced upon people. Common sense works in almost ever situation. Folks ability to be totally outraged by anything is amazing. Only seems to happen on the tv and internet. I’ve never seen that outrage in person.
Some people are weird but 99% are ordinary reasonable humans.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Agreed mate, spot on!

Coll
Coll
1 year ago

Will the QE also get the Bedford Array at some point?

Last edited 1 year ago by Coll
AA
AA
1 year ago

.

Last edited 1 year ago by AA
AA
AA
1 year ago

It should be noted that after the ITF tests of SRVL off the coast of Virginia and Maryland back in 2018 that the technique is still not employed by the Brits. All recoveries aboard QE during CSG 21 by VMFA-211 and RAF No. 617 were vertical not SRVL.

Rfn_Weston
Rfn_Weston
1 year ago
Reply to  AA

I thought the lighting on the QE deck was not installed for SRVL, but it was on the POW? Hence trials being properly borne out once POW deploys… With QE being refitted with SRVL compatible lighting in the future?

Last edited 1 year ago by Rfn_Weston
Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Rfn_Weston

You’re correct, the Bedford Array is only currently fitted to Prince of Wales. Unfortunately POW’s deployment to the USA for trials were cancelled, but hopefully when they do take place the array of lights will make SRVL the norm for landing.

PeterS
PeterS
1 year ago
Reply to  AA

The main purpose of SRVL is to increase bring back loads. If F35b is only carrying internal weapons, there is no benefit in the added risk SRVL entails.

Angus
Angus
1 year ago
Reply to  PeterS

Harriers did much of this trails years ago and both the RN and RAF used similar approaches at the fixed airfields too. Saved on engine wear. Its only new with this aircraft and in this case the onboard kit will do most of the work for the jockey.

expat
expat
1 year ago
Reply to  PeterS

Isn’t the point of trials to derisk the SRVL and defining the operating parameters. Relying entirely on 2 columns of air from the nozzle and lift fan is not without risk, especially when you stress them time after time which is what VL does. SRVL also distributes the heat from the nozzle and whilst the deck coating can stand the heat and is suppose to last 50 years the 2-2.5mm coating will not entire insulate the steel from thermal cycles which will be far more intense with VL. Downside is the breaking and possibility of loss of traction and control.… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  expat

Does the deck have any kind of heating or ice prevention for when operating in freezing temperatures?

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

On a FF/DD the deck stays unfrozen for the majority of the time because the compartments below are warm . That said if it gets too baltic you carry deicing liquid to spray around.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Ahh that makes sense. There will be processes in place.
I’ve seen how some of the boats look on deadliest catch when freezing spray coats the whole boat in ice.
Sailors would be sliding off the deck if it was costed in ice and super slippery. Never mind the jets.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

It’s the little snippets of knowledge from the SMEs which make this site invaluable!

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  PeterS

There is a benefit.

Lower engine power settings which will increase engine and lift fan maintenance intervals and general lifespan.

grizzler
grizzler
1 year ago

So will there be more F35-B’s on the deck to navigate around once we get our full allocation…just askin’

expat
expat
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

I doubt it, UK doesn’t usual deploy regularly in peace time with the decks covered in airframes. We didn’t do this with the Harriers so no reason to think we’d do it with F35.

gh
gh
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

24 is eventual intended full scale deployment ( CSG21 size) .

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

The normal peacetime deployment for a carrier will be 24 jets or two Squadrons worth. This will be for the foreseeable future and will be a mix of U.K. and USMC. This will only change once we have enough jets to do both maritime and land based ops. The USMC will be seen on the carriers quite often as the USN have scrapped the LHD Bonhomme Richard due to excessive fire damage. So they need the sea time just as much as we do. Last year the 1SL stated that the ships will deploy with between 1 and 2 Squadrons… Read more »

grizzler
grizzler
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Thanks for the info 👍..when you say 48 jets is that from a single carrier (so double peace time allocation) or across both .
Just wondering if once the F35 B numbers are increased they will be ‘testing a mass onboarding.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

That’s from a single carrier.
Some sources say 20 F35b can fit in the hanger but some sources say 20 aircraft mixed. Another 24 can fit on the deck with extra space.
There a point where to many aircraft slow things down. A bit like how a Nimitz can carry 95 aircraft and did in the Cold War but normally goes with less today

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

Yes, that’s what the 1SL stated with regards to numbers. With 24 jets on board, an additional 12 can be looked after by the existing support staff for a short time. They will be run ragged trying to maintain the sortie rate, but it is doable. Which means a carrier can accept a surge in aircraft numbers quite easily when already deployed. Without the immediate ferrying of the additional support staff. This would be the same with three squadrons deployed with their support staff. An additional fourth squadron can be accommodated and maintained by the existing staff. One thing that… Read more »

David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

In emergency more bodies will be crammed on board to service the extra aircraft. Hermes in the Falklands war is a good example Her peacetime complement with half a dozen SHARS and a dozen Sea Kings was about 1,350. When she went south with every serviceable SHAR it was over 2,000. By the end she was operating almost two dozen RN/RAF Harriers.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I agree. But in the short term, it’s quicker to get another squadron of jets on to a carrier when it’s deployed. Then it is to get the additional supporting staff to the carrier. It’s purely the logistics of getting say an additional 100 or more bods to the carrier. We don’t have a dedicated logistics aircraft like the Greyhound or it’s replacement the Osprey. So they would have to be flown to the nearest airfield, then ferried by Merlin, unless the carrier is able to dock nearby. The embedded support staff will be able to cope with the additional… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

DaveyB,

A modern riddle, as composed by and courtesy of the F-35 JPO: Which F-135 engine part(s) can induce harmonic resonance frequencies sufficient to induce vibration that results in Class A mishaps, in the manner of the Ft Worth incident, Dec 22? An issue that materializes after accumulating 600K+ flight hours? The interim repair is stated to be relatively inexpensive, require 4-8 of labor at Wing maintenance orgs., and be rolled out to entire fleet (890+ a/c) w/in 90 days, per JPO guidance. JPO still performing root cause analysis, ergo, no final mod proposed. This is becoming curiouser and curiouser…🤔😳

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I could understand it if was purely a F35B problem. As you have different torque moments between the engine, gearbox, drive shaft and fan. These torques will set up imbalanced harmonics which will need to be damped out. Very similar to clocking and balancing helicopter driveshafts I’d imagine. But for it to happen with a F35A is very intriguing. One out of the box thought could be caused by the diverterless intake and how the shockwave it generates interacts with the face of the compressor. I’m sure it’s been modeled to death. But how do the reflected shockwaves interact with… Read more »

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

You also won’t see crowded decks covered with F35s exposed to sea spray in all weathers. The RN tends to keep aircraft under cover in the hanger deck, which is why it’s seen less corrosion/weather-damage compared to USN aircraft.

Donaldson
Donaldson
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Why don’t they cover them on deck in protective sheets/covers like the Merlin below?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp4cCaNXoAUpU2R?format=jpg&name=small

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

I agree however I think it would serve a useful purpose both for training and a deterrent factor to have atleast one exercise every few years with a QE class in overload. I have seen suggestions that 72 F35’s in 6 squadrons could be accommodated at a push. We won’t know what can be done until we try. A short exercise possibly in the summer with several RAF and USMC squadrons should be doable at-least for a short period of time without damaging in the aircraft through deck storage in adverse conditions. We are currently entering a stand off with… Read more »

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I think the QE class is optimised for sustained sortie rate as a strike carrier, which in turn will be limited by sustained availability of maintenance crews. I believe the logic says, if you can turn around 36 jets twice a day, giving 72 sorties, what do you gain from having 72 jets that you can only turn around daily? They’d just get in each others way and cramp operations. However, if you keep reducing numbers, there will come a point when the limit will be something other than maintenance; then there’s resilliance to think about. I’d also assume this… Read more »

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

A couple of findings that I know of came out of the “Lightning” carrier trials. The biggest one was a lack of organic AEW. They had to rely on USN Hawkeyes or Sentrys flying from land bases. This meant at times the carrier did not have air cover, as the aircraft were leaving or getting on station. The second issue was that a fully laden F35B requires the full length of a LHA/LHD to take off. This led to a few delays and deck parking issues as aircraft cannot taxi past the island when a jet is taking off. Similarly,… Read more »

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

The reason for the sizing of the QE was supposedly to be able to match the sortie-rate of American carriers. Now I’ve never seen mentioned what the expected sortie rate would be, or the expected number or aircraft or turnaround time required to achieve this. So some exercises with increasing numbers of aircraft (up to the 72 surge figure) to identify the optimal number for achieving this rate would seem a good idea. I doubt actually demonstrating this capacity to the Chinese will act as a deterrent. Their military planners will already be working on the basis that this is… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

These were the rates I thought were designed in. The carrier will support joint combat aircraft, carrying out up to 420 sorties over five days and will be able to conduct day and night time operations. The maximum sortie rate is 110 joint combat aircraft sorties in 24 hours. The standard air group of 40 aircraft includes 36 Lockheed Martin F-35B joint strike fighter, and four EH101 Merlin helicopter. It can also include other maritime surveillance and control aircraft (MASC). The maximum launch rate is 24 aircraft in 15 minutes and the maximum recovery rate is 24 aircraft in 24… Read more »

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Wow, thanks for those details… So trying to boil things down, the first target is a max 110 sorties by the 36 F35Bs in 24 hours. Which is 3 sorties for each F35B in 24 hours, so each aircraft has an 8 hour window to take-off, conduct the sortie, land, be checked-over and possibly minor maintenance performed, then refuelled and rearmed, ready for take again. Obviously couldn’t be done day-in day-out but for a short period? Of course the big question is how the long the mission is, flying to and from the target. Then dropping to 84 sorties per… Read more »

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

I surprised that the QE class didn’t come with pop-up jet deflectors. As these would have allowed concurrent take-off and vertical landings to occur. Though I guess a lot would depend on the weight of the aircraft that is taking off. As a heavier weight necessitates a longer run up to the ramp.

Though from memory the aircraft in beast mode did a run up 2/3 the length of the flight deck to the ramp. I have yet to see aircraft concurrently landing and taking off.

FOSTERSMAN
FOSTERSMAN
1 year ago

Grim reapers DCS do some good queen Elizabeth simulations, UK Vs China is a highlight.

gh
gh
1 year ago
Reply to  FOSTERSMAN

yes

Roger
Roger
1 year ago

It would have been worth emphasising in the piece that SRVL is a UK innovation, as were several key post WW2 carrier/aircraft interface. innovations. Not a big deal, but credit where credit is due.

TypewriterMonkey
TypewriterMonkey
1 year ago

Yes, I saw this and thought it was very cool. The F35B also has sensors to detect the ramp on the QE2 class. And now there’s a ‘leaked’ PowerPoint ‘official graphic’ of a Ghost Bat landing on a QE2 class carrier with an arrestor wire. Intriguing!

Sean
Sean
1 year ago

Looks like it’s more a presentation of what may be possible rather than revelation of an actual plan…
https://www.janes.com/amp/official-rendering-shows-ghost-bat-loyal-wingman-landing-aboard-queen-elizabeth-class-carrier/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago

If its that easy, why is the Pilot Training some 2.5 years behind schedule.

gh
gh
1 year ago

POW delays

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  gh

No it is a systemic thing. Check the typhoon pilot situation. It’s all public domain.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

Well lots of reasons why flight training takes a long time. The easy bit referred to is landing the F35b on the carrier. The computer on the plane does most of the hard work. Flight training to get to the point of landing on the carrier involves learning to fly a basic plane, then a turbo prop, then advanced jet trainer, then joining a squadron that operates the aircraft you have done all that training to get to. While there the process of tactics, operating the aircraft, systems, weapons effectively will be learned along with a load of other skills.… Read more »

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 year ago

Because the Flight Simulator the Pilot Training is using needs a 20TB software update and the MOD is only paying for a 28.8K modem …It will take a while to download…and the fax machine is on the same line and when that is used it breaks the connection.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Yes. It’s a outsourced contract. The MOD get free modems but have to pay £10,000 for each repair.
The 50 year contract was given to AOL in 1999 at the rate of £10 per mb. Deal of the century I remember it being quoted at the time. Also it was going to suffer no ill effects from the millennium bug. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Klonkie
Klonkie
1 year ago

Is it possible for these carriers to simultaneously recover and launch F35s, like the US angled deck conventional carriers?

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago

Off-topic, but good news for Ukraine!

“Imagery released by the Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine shows that the service is operating a UH-60A Black Hawk helicopter.

Two images of a UH-60A in a paint scheme that features the Ukrainian flag and roundels were posted by the directorate on social media.

n one image the helicopter is pictured next to an Mi-24. Accordingto the intelligence service, both helicopters have been conducting front-line combat missions with specialist units of the Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine.”

LINK

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52703369998_7faef127b0_b.jpg

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Promising news!

LINK

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Good news, but what I’d really love to see is the Ukrainians getting some Apaches…

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Clearly. What interested me was this.

JANES

“Official lists of equipment supplied to Ukraine by the US government do not include UH-60 helicopters.”

LINK

Maintenance Repair and Overhaul

Ace has the ability to purchase UH-60As from the US Army and offer for sale with the following airframe options:

Basic UH-60A conformed to the ACE RCTC, PMI 1&2 and paint to customer specifications
UH-60A to UH-60A+
Full aircraft and avionics depot maintenance support”

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Not surprised at all. A third nation could have donated its own Blackhawks or bought them for Ukraine, or Ukraine itself could have bought them from the financial aid it’s received.
I serious doubt second-hand Apaches are so easily obtained…

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
1 year ago

Grim Reapers do some excellent and stupid battle sims on DCS if you like YouTube stuff.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

I liked their battle using A10s against s300 and s400 defences. They were also operating from roads. OK its a sim but they kicked the Russian armours butt! with few losses so ot would be interesting to see a real battle

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

The US carrier group from the 80s v 50 Tu-22m was an interesting scenario. Very cinematic too. Watching those Tomcats struggle to get supersonic then they really cut loose.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 year ago

Saudi Arabia has just joined up to FCAS, not clear jet whether thats just the unmanned drone element or they also intend to sign up to the GCAP manned element as well.

https://twitter.com/kbsalsaud/status/1630968002467201029

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

I didn’t see that coming! I suppose we’ll have to wait to see how significant this is.

I can’t see Saudi involvement being on the same level as the three principals. The picture is of a signing with Mr Benn, without Italian or Japanese sign off. We also don’t know where Sweden will land up.

I think this has to be good news.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jon
Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

Saudi can supply the lubricants🙈
I guess we need to wait for more news on how big the cooperation is and check our Japanese and Italians friends are ok with it.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Breaking defence has an article about it. https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/saudi-arabia-to-join-uk-led-fcas-program-after-signing-new-military-agreement/?amp=1
Seems like a letter of intent on part of the project

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Well I hope that ends up well for you…

Jon
Jon
1 year ago

Off topic: BAE have announced another VTOL combat drone called STRIX, but as this is BAE Autralia it might actually get produced, with a prototype underway and a hoped for an operational date of 2026. A rotary tailsitter they say was inspired by tiltrotors, it isn’t really either, and it’s certainly a strange looking beast. A hybrid tandem wing design, each of the wings has a large rotor, but unlike smaller hybrids where the four rotors sit on top of the wings to give VTOL capability, these rotors are in front of the wings, like conventional propellors. The wings and… Read more »

Jon
Jon
1 year ago

Off topic: BAES have announced another VTOL combat drone called STRIX, but as this is BAE Australia it might actually get produced, with a prototype underway and a hoped for an operational date of 2026. A rotary tailsitter they say was inspired by tiltrotors, it isn’t really either, and it’s certainly a strange looking beast. A hybrid tandem wing design, each of the wings has a large rotor, but unlike smaller hybrids where the four rotors sit on top of the wings to give VTOL capability, these rotors are in front of the wings, like conventional propellors. The wings and… Read more »

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

The design is quite simple but ingenious. As it flies much like a quadcopter does. In that it uses differential thrust to control its attitude. So from rest it will accelerate the forward two propellers faster than the rear two, thereby producing more thrust. This makes it sit up at the front. When it’s pointing near vertical, all four are coordinated to produce the same amount of thrust. Which makes it lift off vertically. By using differential thrust through all four propellers, you can alter the aircraft’s attitude and make it turn in the hover, as per a quadcopter. The… Read more »