At 1755 on Monday the 3rd of October, aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales will depart Portsmouth heading for Rosyth to have repairs carried out in drydock.
UPDATE 03/10/22
.@HMSPWLS departure from Portsmouth today has been postponed.
The tug Njord Viking supporting her for journey to Rosyth is at anchor in the Solent.
Library photo: Andy Amor pic.twitter.com/GpXhrjVni1
— Navy Lookout (@NavyLookout) October 3, 2022
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace earlier told Forces.net here that it is likely that HMS Prince of Wales will have to go into dry dock to have problems with a shaft and propeller fixed.
We had originally reported that the Netherlands was being touted as an option if Rosyth was untenable. However, the vessel has now been confirmed as heading to Rosyth.
Earlier this year, a £30 million contract for dry-dock maintenance for the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers was awarded to Babcock at Rosyth. The contract covers routine and emergency dry-docking periodically throughout the carrier’s lives to undertake maintenance and repair activities.
The reason the Netherlands was being considered, I was told, is that it is closer and potentially easier to get to.
What happened?
Rear Admiral Steve Moorhouse recently provided an update on the situation with HMS Prince of Wales, confirming what the UK Defence Journal was first to report.
We reported that aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales was feared to have suffered damage to her propellor shaft near the Isle of Wight. The UK Defence Journal was the first news website in the country to break this story.
Rear Admiral Steve Moorhouse said in a statement posted to Twitter.
“Good afternoon to you all, from HMS Prince of Wales off the coast of Portsmouth. I’m Rear Admiral Steve Morehouse, and I’m responsible for making sure Royal Navy ships are ready to deploy wherever they are needed. Shortly after the ship sailed on Saturday, a mechanical fault was discovered with the starboard shaft.
I’ve been to the ship today to see for myself what the issue is, and how we in the Royal Navy can work together to make sure that the ship can successfully returned to her tasking. After the initial assessment, it’s likely the fault will require repairs, which may impact the ship’s programme. The ship is now moving to a more sheltered anchorage for further inspection.
And then we’ll be able to provide further comments on the nature of the issue and the impact to her current schedule. We’ve reacted quickly to the emergent defect and are working closely with industry partners to resolve this as soon as we can. Rest assured the Royal Navy continues to meet its commitments to deliver operations. And to keep the UK our partners and allies safe.”
More on this as details come through.
let’s hope it’s a simple fix and nothing to serious…
It is more what may have got damaged after the coupling failed.
Has the shaft A bracket been damaged or sheered off?
Is the section of shaft that goes the through the hull glad damaged?
If it was just the coupling itself it could have been fixed in the water – probably?
I don’t think it’s a quick fix. I think we are looking into weeks, months as it’s a large part in the bottom of the ship passing from the inside of the hull to the outside.
Sub brief on you tube did a very good video about the part, showing what it looks like etc.
https://youtu.be/K8amC7BLrXc
the ship was also meant to dry dock next year for a hull inspection so maybe they can do that now to save another dry dock.
Hopefully we get an estimated arrival time so I can go and watch from the bridge.
Whilst she is dry docked they may as well give her the works. I’d suggest at least three months but it would be better if she refloats sooner than that.
We may need her fully operational ASAP. That pipeline explosion could be the prelude to something very nasty heading our way.
Rosyth is a capable yard and I’m sure will do what’s needed as quickly as possible. The main carrier is still available for tasking. With the 2 of them it perhaps becomes what aircraft are going to go on them. There’s not a lot of merlins and F35 around for 2 carriers and the rest of the fleet.
I’m hoping for more helicopters to be sought after soon
What happens if Rosyth suddenly becomes unavailable, through natural disaster, industrial action, enemy action, Scottish independence or it’s already full with one of our carriers? Having a second, even part sponsored by the government. would be the wise thing to do. Have you seen the Able UK facility. Able Seaton Port Dry Dock. It’s one of the largest in the world with huge growth potential. As is, it can dock two aircraft carrier simultaneously. ableuk com sites/port-sites/seaton-port/dry-dock No argument on needing those F35B’s and more rotary lift capability. Things are heating up globally. The tilt rotor Ospreys are very impressive… Read more »
I get what your saying but if the navy need to spend millions each year keeping a dry dock staffed and ready it will have to come at the cost of something else.
I don’t think the Uk government will ever pay for it out of another budget.
If the MOD spread the work around, it’s the kind of thing the private sector would invest in. As is already the case with ABLE UK. Such assets are of global significance and would not sit ideal between RN projects.
Harland and Wolff Belfast Dock facility. From a navigational perspective, Belfast Dock is considerably easier to access than Rosyth but it’s two decades since the company worked for the MoD, whereas Babcock is the RN’s second-largest contractor. Belfast Dock at least provides an emergency option if there were problems at Rosyth or in the unlikely event both carriers had to be dry-docked simultaneously.
Anyone know when she is due to arrive in Rosyth? I want to go see her going under the bridge.
Has it been over a month. Wow. Doesn’t time fly when awaiting urgent dry docking. If I’m sounding somewhat flippant it is only because I consider having only one dry dock in the UK available to maintain these carriers as operationally dangerous and ridiculous.
Especially when it’s the only dock that can build ships over 20k tons as well.
There is an excellent potential site for another on Teesside. The Able Seaton Port Drydock. It is big enough to hold both carriers at once. Look it up. There is also a huge amount of adjacent land to build whatever infrastructure and security is needed.
The UK has loads of unused Uber dry docks around. No budget thought to use them.
I don’t think that the month wait has been because of the dry dock schedule. The ship over 3.5m litres of fuels on board and was fully stocked up for a long deployment. Everything has to be taken off the ship before dry docking. That all takes effort and time.
There are other dry docks that could be put into service in an emergency setting. The main issue is getting staff who know what on earth they are doing and how to fix a ship when it arrives
This is a good article for this subject.
https://www.navylookout.com/dry-docking-the-royal-navys-aircraft-carriers-what-are-the-options/
Who thought it was a good idea to award such a support contract to a contractor in Rosyth when the ships are home-based in Portsmouth?
The first time we need the service it is considered so far away that the Netherlands was actively considered instead!
I am sure that the answer will be that there were no large drydock facilities in southern England – well there should be.
Also, if Scotland becomes independent in future do we want a major facility like that to be in a foreign country?
Hi mate, you are correct, there are no such facilities along the south coast that currently fit the bill. Agree, there most certainly should be more than one option.
Believe that the RN is also going to take this opportunity to complete her first scheduled docking, some 4 months earlier than planned, which does make sense.
That makes sense, so it will all shake out with operational availability later. Very lucky the RN ended up with 2 and not one, as ending up with built with the patchy availability the La Royale suffers from with its carrier force would not be great.
No it definitely wouldn’t be great, but give us all a reason to moan even more no doubt!!🤣🤣
True true, we would be able to have a full on wig out every time the single carrier went in for refit.
Part agree with you Graham Moore, partly don’t. Yes, we should have a second dry dock at 2-3 month availability, with an effort already scoped, owned and with the plans to upgrade in some draw. It’s absurd when you think how much the UK has, does and will rely on our sea lanes to think one minor ‘mishap’ at Rosyth could put the only one out of action. You can already hear the cries and shouts from the MSN if such an event happen and another accident befalls a carrier before a critical tasking. It’s not as if the government… Read more »
Are you equally keen to see the Nuclear base at Faslane moved down south? Or is that a bit too close for comfort?
Kevin,
It will have to be if Scotland becomes independent. Surely you know that the SNP/Scottish Government does not want SSBNs and nuclear weapons in Scotland following independence.
My views have no bearing.
There were many people in Scotland astounded that the Trident facility in Faslane was based so close to Glasgow. Perhaps it also should be transferred to the South Coast?
Trident, and before that Poseidon and before that Polaris – have been based at Faslane. Surely the Scots have always been known this is close to Glasgow (about 40 miles away) and are no longer so astounded about this?
Relocation to England of these facilities would certainly be the decision of the Scottish Government/SNP after independence. This is surely not astounding news to you Kevin?
Apparently the alternatives to Faslane such as Milford Haven, Falmouth and Devonport would be difficult to do due to proximity to local population and thus intense local pressure. For those who think Faslane is a remote facility it is directly 26 miles from Glasgow, the 4 th biggest city in the UK with a population of over 640,000 while Falmouth has a population of around 25,000.
If Scotland becomes independent you need to look at repositioning the Nuclear deterrent and I would like to see the reaction if it was placed 26 miles from London…….
FYI, Faslane wasn’t chosen as a SSBN base due to its remoteness to any population centres. It was chosen because of the weather (cloud cover)in the area and it’s short transit time to the open ocean. Back in the late 60’s satillites couldn’t see through clouds, obscured departure/arrivals, not the same now of course. Devonport was never an option, not only too far from the open ocean, but to shallow an entry and exit. Along with MH and Falmouth, also far to sunny back then. MH and Falmouth have excellent deep water harbours, and good access to the Atlantic, so… Read more »
Oh please! Yada, yada, yah. You want the benefit of employment, vast sums invested in local infrastructure and other facilities with no downside at all. Go take your indy politics elsewhere Kevin. We are not interested, the majority in Scotland are not interested. The latest real poll shows the SNP has slumped to 27%. I’m genuinely fed up of the whinging.
Just FYI Graham, the UK didn’t have Poseidon missiles, just Polaris and now Trident.
Poseidon missiles were only ever for the US navy, and during the cold war had some SSBNs based out of Holy Loch. That facility closed when we all went to Trident SSBNs with their increased range?
Thanks for the correction. I think I was going to put Chevaline but changed it to Poseidon – senior moment. I think Holy Loch – was just for refit of the US subs? It looked a very basic facility compared to what Faslane now offers.
This is from the http://www.aboutsubs website: “With the reduction in European tension and the end of the Cold War it was announced on 6 February 1991 that the Holy Loch Base would close, and in March 1992 the last US Navy ship sailed out, thus ending thirty one years of American presence in the Dunoon area.
Holy Loch wasn’t a refit facility, but a floating sub base. Believe that they used SM tenders(big ships) for the most part, there might have also been a floating dock there at some stage, but it was never on the scale of Faslane, to be fair was never meant to be. It just saved the US Navy transit time in getting across the pond to their patrol areas. Back in the day, both Polaris and Poseidon had a much shorter range than Trident now affords us. Both the UK and US SSBN’s are always at sea (CASD), so said article… Read more »
What are your views on the removal of trident should Scotland become an independent and therefore foreign country? Where on the English coastline could trident be accommodated?
Not sure why you are having a go at me. I thought everyone knew that the SNP/Scottish Government do not want SSBNs and nuclear weapons in Scotland after independence – and neither do their allied party, The Greens. Not my policy, its theirs. Clearly one option would be to base the SSBNs and nuclear weapons at HMNB Devonport as there are nuclear reactor maintenance facilities there and familiarity with handling submarines. Between 2012 and 2015, HMS Vengeance – one of the UK’s four Trident submarines – underwent a major refit at Devonport. However this site may not be stealthy enough… Read more »
Not having a go , as you say , just asking the question. what facilities / sites are available in England to accommodate trident in the event of removal from Scotland ?
Is devonport not a long-term option?
No fella, it’s not a viable option long or short term. Devonport is far to shallow to get in/out of on a regular basis except in the highest of high tides.
👍thank you
Somewhere around 100 yards over the Scottish border as I know it would give you a total hissy fit, say Port Carlisle or Berwick on Tweed after investing billions on cutting channels, building infrastructure and service entry to it?
Grow up!
Simple answer, move the carriers to Rosyth. Makes no sense having two naval bases on south coast and non on East Coast.
We can’t base the carriers out of Rosyth as it relies on the tide in the Firth of Forth to have suitable conditions to transit through.
Good point.
Can you go 5 minutes without banging on about Scottish independence.
😂👍🏻 aye
Why would independence matter,
if they are prepared to go to another foreign country then they will be happy to come to Scotland
Yes buts it’s a very good point, there is a real potential that Scotland will have another independence referendum and a chance from that it splits with the U.K., government needs to consider this risk and mitigate.
The more people keep banging on about it the more chance there is of it happening. Scotland had a referendum and voted to stay in, its over for a generation now atleast unless England decides to have a referendum and leave. The only people who benefit from constantly going on about it are sturgeon and the SNP that want to keep it front a centre all the time. Support for independence in Scotland is about the same as it was in 2014 45+ % while support for another referendum soon is down in the 20’s. Once the Tory’s are gone… Read more »
Yes it’s one of those difficult questions for HMG, If they don’t not plan for an independent Scotland in some way, it’s going to cause problems around managing risk…but if they do put mitigation in place they give more credibility to and ammunition for the nationalists. A big question for HMG, but let’s be honest what’s said on this site is not making an ounce of difference. TBH I think the big issue is that the conservative government is toxic to a lot of voters in Scotland and if they have to put up with yet another term, I think… Read more »
Emergency dry dockings for most big ships dont happen overnight. Docking plans, Block construction, shore services provision, arranging OEM attendance …it all takes time and thats only if the dock is available. In civvy yards, graving docks are a golden goose, laying golden eggs. They are very rarely empty and as one ship leaves another comes in almost straight away. Their use is booked months if not years in advance. POW even when she gets to Rosyth wont go into the dock straight away.Due to the prop blade sweep being below the depth of the keel, the bolt on blades… Read more »
Why would they need to do that? QE returned to Rosyth and underwent her scheduled docking without removing anything? As far as I am aware the class can be docked without any requirement to remove prop blades…..
I am going on the info that the Divers who installed the blades told me.
Just hope it’s not like my car, or they will have to take the flight deck off to get at the prop shaft.
Never mind the fix. What caused this? Or has that been swept under the carpet?
The fact that Prince of Wales is going into drydock at all, makes it odds on, that the tail section of the stern shaft, couplings, seals, maybe shaft supports, and possibly even the prop itself may need replacement. That lot will not be on a ‘stores shelf’, and will probably require manufacture, no doubt miles away from Rosyth. The manufacture of these parts does not actually take that long, it’s the ‘faffing around’ that goes on in between. I have no idea how much those parts would cost, as I have not been involved in that kind of engineering for… Read more »
I am sure there will be one prop worth of spare blades in the back of a cupboard somewhere – if not, we really need to get some proper engineering teams involved in British military vessel design and build…
It may not be poor design that caused the failure.
I have heard that it was either a propellor strike on the sea bed (navigation staff on Ship’s crew to blame) or a shaft bearing was not lubricated properly (ship-borne engineers to blame).
I had thought that all exits and port channels in and around Portsmouth had all been ‘cleaned, cleared and dredged’ while the carriers were being built?
That was many years ago and I am not sure if it was ever repeated. I don’t know where PoW had its incident – it may have been beyond the cleared area. Anyway the sea bed strike is just a theory, for now.
Long ago when I used to be in marine engineering, props used to be made from a single casting. The largest I ever worked on, was about 8 feet in diameter. Before they got to be, there was the pattern makers, the mould makers, then the props went to the finishers (dot punch and grind) then the machinist had a go (me) who machined the hub to a specific length. Then the hub was bored out and tapered. The tapered ‘hole’ then had a keyway cut into it, ready for the prop shaft. The larger the prop, the highest probability… Read more »
How is she getting to Rosyth, under her own power the undamaged prop or undertow???
Do we actually know what has caused this to happen, for a coupling to brake in a dramatic fashion there must have been a shock to the shaft such the propeller hitting the bottom of getting tangled in netting causing stress on the week points in the shaft, like a coupling. It is an extremely rear event for a coupling to fail.
“At 1755 on Monday the 3rd of October, aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales will depart Portsmouth heading for Rosyth to have repairs carried out in drydock.”
1550hrs 5th October & the POW is still moored alongside in HMNB Portsmouth.
So what’s going on?
Still there too.