The decision follows criticism for allowing the Chinese firm into 5G network infrastructure and, according to the Government, a technical review by the National Cyber Security Centre.

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Crabfat
Crabfat
2 months ago

“Some members of the Defence Select Committee have also expressed concerns over the UK Government including Huawei equipment in the UK 5G network, with MP for West Dunbartonshire Martin Docherty-Hughes saying “handing over your 5G network to the Communist party of any country is utter insanity”

I know we like to bash the SNP from time to time but this statement by Mr D-H is absolutely spot on. Would we let North Korea supply critical kit to the UK network – or even Russia? We would not.

Julian
Julian
2 months ago

This comment cut and pasted from one I made on another thread. I’m wondering whether the OneWeb news from a few weeks ago has some connection with this Huawei decision. Maybe yes, maybe no, but whatever way the OneWeb part-purchase has the potential, if all the stars align, to be absolutely massive news… The UK Government announced the purchase of a 45% stake in OneWeb for $500m a couple of weeks ago together with a UK golden share giving HMG veto on any subsequent equity transfers/sales of OneWeb and also approval of all customers wanting to use the network. It’s… Read more »

DRS
DRS
2 months ago
Reply to  Julian

OneWeb buy was a brilliant decision. Yes there are risks but over time you transfer the factory over to the U.K. from Florida and make it all here. Even if it is a dual site build that is still 300+ satellites that are made here. Also offers an alternate gps to U.K., US etc governments, gets us broadband coverage here and as foreign aid, gives you military broadband etc etc. To see the viability of his at LEO read this. With modern Atomic clocks on a chip costing 1.2k to enable atomic clocks for GPS and the opportunity to sync… Read more »

Julian
Julian
2 months ago
Reply to  DRS

Thanks for that link DRS. I did a bit of web searching about the viability of LEO GPS and found some vaguer stuff with differing views on the viability but nothing anywhere near as detailed, comprehensive and well-structured as the article you linked to. One thing I note from that article though is that towards the end and in the conclusion where they pull it all together the authors seem to lean towards a composite network. The most challenging issue that they seem to be unable to satisfactorily resolve any other way is the precise tracking of the orbits of… Read more »

Joe16
Joe16
2 months ago
Reply to  DRS

I add my thanks to @Julian’s, an interesting piece of work!
As we already have some very good satellite development and construction facilities and seem to be developing a small scale space launch industry too, these kinds of LEO satellites in polar orbits begin to make more and more sense as a sovereign asset- for both military and commercial comms and navigation.
Dare I say it, this almost sounds like the government investing in a technology/capability to benefit and build an existing British industry…?!

lee1
lee1
2 months ago
Reply to  DRS

It was a terrible investment. Oneweb do not and have never made the type of satellites needed for GPS. We have domestic companies that do so why did we not invest in those?

DRS
DRS
2 months ago
Reply to  lee1

Airbus was involved with Galileo (Portsmouth) and I am sure we can bring in Surrey Satellite Tech into this somehow too to solve the problems. Read the research article above to see how it can be done. Atomic clock chips are now available to be able to used this at scale in small satellites. If you had 3/4 of these offering redundancy on a small satellite you can do It: https://www.microsemi.com/product-directory/embedded-clocks-frequency-references/5207-space-csac. Having 700 satellites all giving you a gps signal gives you a lot of redundancy. Having broadband added to it means no need for separate satellites for the military… Read more »

andy
andy
2 months ago

the big problem now is we need to check on the replacement kit,as Australia found out Huawei products still ended up in there 5g by backdoor means,ie rebadged and sold to 3rd party companies from different countries.Because China will do anything to sell it,s products from blatant copyright theft to espionage just to sell crap

Steve
Steve
2 months ago

there is a surprise. Boris talks tough and states we have done our own risk assessment, and then backs down on every point to the US. Where have we seen him do that before…

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Any pretence that we have an independent foreign policy is now firmly squashed. The bungling incompetence of successive Tory regimes have landed us in a position of having few, if any, friends except an unequal relationship with the US. Bring on the chlorinated chickens folks!!!

Jason Holmes
Jason Holmes
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

If you don’t want chlorinated chicken, don’t buy it, no one is forcing it down your throat

Tim
Tim
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

That would be why when the USA wanted to bomb syria the uk government (Tory) said no and who honestly cares about chlorine chicken not me and have a look on any u.s supermarket website and see how much they pay for a chicken over there it’s nearly twice what we pay so if the USA wants to sell to the uk by the time u factor in delivery the price will be nearly 10 pound a chicken so they won’t sell any

pkcasimir
pkcasimir
2 months ago
Reply to  Tim

IF US chicken is so costly and so unhealthy why are the EU and the UK so desperate to keep it out of their markets? If it costs more and is unhealthy who is going to buy it? Maybe, because the whole “chlorinated chicken” is one big protectionist scam, don’t you think?

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  pkcasimir

The EU legislation on this is not a complaint about the use of chlorination per se but its use on abattoir meat. It is argued that the application of chlorination will promote the lowering of health and hygiene standards in abattoirs!

julian1
julian1
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

That’s correct H and a point the UK population and media miss entirely. It’s not about using Chlorine – that is used to wash lettuce and produce often – it is about the shoddy abattoir standards which means the chlorine rinse is the “get out of jail card”

john melling
2 months ago
Reply to  julian1

Funny you should mention about washing lettuce with Chlorine…
As a Chef of 20 years, we would fill the sink up with water and use Chlorine Tablets , 1 or 2.
It took 3 washes of the lettuce just to get rid of most of the Chlorine smell and taste !!
Meanwhile, if you caught a whiff of it, you would certainly know the danger of the stuff.

No chance of me having a Chlorinated chicken !! Sod that

pkcasimir
pkcasimir
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

And I can argue that pigs fly. That doesn’t make it so. So American health standards and hygiene are so low that their abattoirs are unsafe and unhealthy. Nonsense. It’s a made -up argument to protect a poultry industry. The EU knows it, the world knows it, and you should know it.

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  pkcasimir

If you can argue that ‘pigs can fly’ why would anyone be interested in what you say. The concerns are about European abattoirs not American ones. But if you allow the importation of chlorinated chicken then you, reasonably, would have to approve of its use in the domestic market!

julian1
julian1
2 months ago
Reply to  Tim

most things are more expensive in the US…this has been brought on by the devaluation of sterling after the Brexit vote. mass imports to the UK may well undercut UK chicken prices though. I won’t buy it personally – not out of any particular dislike of US goods – but simply because IF it can be easily produced to higher standards here, it should be bought and consumed locally

Bill
Bill
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

I thought we might have got rid of the ‘chinless wonders’ but l may have to think again. Spark up Boris!

julian1
julian1
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

I hope Welsh lamb is exported to the US in return. Lamb is difficult to find here and when you do its usually Australian, sometimes kiwi. It’s damn expensive too. I don’t really know why they don’t produce more of their own lamb, I don’t think its that popular.

Bill
Bill
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

It won’t be the last time. This decision should have been made a long time ago. Boris himself said everything was fine, no threat to security. What’s changed?
Boris needs to up his game across the board.

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Bill

I don’t think he does. He knows he can get away with it as he always has. It goes way back before brexit, but think the more obvious one of May’s deal being terrible and then the Boris deal which was materially the same thing with some worse things included (losing our share in the european bank) or his oven ready trade deal and now focus on no-deal. He is a master of saying one thing, and doing the complete reverse and getting away with.

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Boris and his oven ready deals…..the only thing oven ready is the fat turkey in no10😁

DRS
DRS
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

It is just political trading threatening one party with something they don’t want to give you something that you want. We now have “goodwill” with the Americans that hopefully helps us in any trade deals we may want or make. That it turn helps in negotiations with Europe (regardless if you agree that was a good or bad idea we have to make do with the situation we have at hand now). Again requires skill and luck to line it all up.

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  DRS

Your not thinking this through. We stated firmly that our intel people said there was no risk, and then completely backed down to the US pressure at the huge costs to our own tel co companies. That is a clear sign to the US of lack of strength, and it will be exploited in the trade deals. They now know for sure, that we will do whatever they ask to get a deal, no matter how bad it is to the companies of the UK.

Joe16
Joe16
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

To be fair to Boris, this is not a back down. We have an effective and perfectly acceptable set-up to review and inspect Huawei equipment that will be used in our comms infrastructure via the NCSC (attached to GCHQ). It is their expert opinion that assured and recommended to government that it was OK to put higher risk products within our network in the way that we were going to do it (edge devices, limited share, etc.). The US kicked up a stink, especially with the 5 Eyes and F-35 ridiculousness and the government stood firm, because their expert analysis… Read more »

Ron5
Ron5
2 months ago

About time.

Cam
Cam
2 months ago

Why the hell do we allow china to gobble up the west’s big businesses! Money I know but security’s worth more!. They aren’t buying them to help us out!!

And I wonder how much this is going to cost us now, with China supposedly pissed and will be bombarding the UK with lots more cyber attacks And viruses Of the computer kind this time! China really sucks. We should start producing Far more of what we need in Europe, but sadly China’s buying up so many european industry and big businesses it’ll be impossible to not deal with them!

Crabfat
Crabfat
2 months ago
Reply to  Cam

I think it was Mao Tse Deng who said, “the west will buy the rope China uses to hang them…”

Ron5
Ron5
2 months ago
Reply to  Crabfat

He didn’t. On the other hand Lenin said “The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.”

HF
HF
2 months ago
Reply to  Ron5

And Khruschev said ‘We will bury you’…..

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  HF

Nah…that was Sting!

Crabfat
Crabfat
2 months ago
Reply to  Ron5

Thanks Ron – same message, different dictator. .

Crabfat
Crabfat
2 months ago
Reply to  Ron5
Tim
Tim
2 months ago
Reply to  Cam

And we will cyber attack them as well

Cam
Cam
2 months ago

And With China a leader in Cyber atacks I sure hope we give them as good as we get…

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Cam

Are they now? What basis do you have to state they are leaders in cyber attacks? China has a very large population and there are for sure a lot of privacy hackers there, just like there are a load in the UK or anywhere else. Plus its not like we are also not into the state hacking game either. If GCHQ stated that the risk can be managed, then i tend to believe them over US politicians etc. This is purely a political decision, rather than a security one. The question is where will the new equipment come from, i… Read more »

Tim
Tim
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Why wouldn’t you want equipment from the USA

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Tim

Because unlike China the US has a proven history of spying on people of the UK and passing it onto our government in breach of UK law.

I have no problems with governments having the ability to spy on its people, but that has to be done following a court order with justification, not just because they don’t like what someone is saying about them.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

And the UK spies on US citizens in return Steve, passing the data to NSA. See “Columbia Annex” The DG of the SS and others have stated many times about the rise of both Chinese and Russian cyber and espionage activities. I don’t think the US or HMG give a monkeys about what is being said about them. They, and the intelligence agencies, do care though about the need to find out who might be a threat. Otherwise, how do they know who to target with more in depth investigation/surveillance via a court order? How to do that with billions… Read more »

Steve
Steve
2 months ago

Its about rule of law. The law in the UK requires that for wire taps or home searches you need a court order, the same should be true with internet usage etc. If you allow states to monitor their citizens without checks and balances you are on a slippery slope. Could say the PM order the secret services to investigate a journalist that was investing them and who’s investigation could damage their politician aims or could the PM use it to damage the opposition party. Could the government use the powers to victimize a whistleblower etc etc. We need to… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

“Its about rule of law. The law in the UK requires that for wire taps or home searches you need a court order,” They do get court orders, via requests by the Home and Foreign secretaries. ONCE an issue has been identified. To identify that issue quickly you need surveillance. “the same should be true with internet usage etc.” How? The real world is not like that. The Docklands bombings, as one example, were not stopped due to delay while the red tape of indecision went round and round. You cannot always wait for some judge to rule. How long… Read more »

Steve
Steve
2 months ago

Except what you state is the theory and its been proven by snowden etc to not be happening in relaity.

The examples i gave are ones that have happened in the US under Trump, and could easily happen here if we do not make sure there are checks and balances.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

“Except what you state is the theory and its been proven by snowden etc to not be happening in relaity.” Course its happening in reality, you think GSOC is a theory? The mass surveillance I described but briefly is exactly what Snowden exposed. What has he “proved?” Mass surveillance was exposed to the public by Duncan Campbell in the 90’s, not Snowden, though most researchers knew of it anyway. Snowden is just another whistle blower who will sit on his hands once other nations and groups react to his “revelations” making it harder to combat them. The issues I described… Read more »

Steve
Steve
2 months ago

and this is why we should be worried about the US having backdoors into our systems, as our own government and secret services are exploiting it to get around UK law, its a major problem.

Cam
Cam
2 months ago
Reply to  Tim

Exactly USA has some of the best and top tech company’s on earth and looks to be a huge player for future tech. USA is a melting pot of all worlds best brains all in one nation.

Just like it was a Brit at Apple who developed/ designed the apple iPad, iPod, iMac, and iPhone, lots of American creations are by foreign brains, they couldn’t have gone to space so quick without europeans. And the British had a large Part in the Manhattan project.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 months ago
Reply to  Cam

“gone to space so quick without europeans.”

Without a Nazi, no less. Operation Paperclip spirited many of them to New Mexico.

And the UK and Russia were at it too. They were useful, their genocidal links ignored.

Cam
Cam
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

China are “a” leader meaning one of multiple leaders and are by many accounts the leaders in cyber hacking/ atacks along with

– USA second
-Turkey third
-Russia fourth

I quote-

“ Number 1 is China. By quite a significant margin, China houses the largest number of hackers on Earth. During the last quarter of 2012, the world’s most populous country accounted for 41 percent of the world’s hacking traffic.”

End of quote

Sceptical Richard
Sceptical Richard
2 months ago

Inevitable but i think ultimately the right decision. Brace yourselves now for Chinese retaliation in various forms and also time for Ericsson and Nokia to put their prices up.

Dan
Dan
2 months ago

In light of recent events in Hong Kong, I guess it’s right to re-evaluate our relationship with China and Chinese companies, but this decision is going to cost the UK dear. Huawei isn’t just a supplier of 5G technology, its products are already widely used in all the UK networks. Getting rid of Huawei means spending time and hundreds of millions of pounds in ripping out and replacing existing kit instead of investing in new infrastructure.

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Dan

I can’t help wondering if the 2027 date was chosen as it was not an election or build up to an election year, meaning that it might be not a completely solid deadline.

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Its also really hard to know how to deal with China. For sure we have concerns about their government and human rights record, but also the majority of electronic etc stuff we buy is build there and it is the worlds 2nd largest economy meaning it will be a major buyer of UK goods.

Does isolating a country with sanctions actually work, i am not sure there has really been any modern examples of it working beyond just hitting the average person whilst the rich of the country just take more from them.

Jason Holmes
Jason Holmes
2 months ago
Reply to  Dan

I’d still pay higher taxes to remove their equipment, its worth it

fearlesstunafish
fearlesstunafish
2 months ago

personally by 2027 i fully expect to get my broadband via starlink satellite anywhere on the planet….. at that point i won’t really care about 5g 🙂

Julian
Julian
2 months ago

Probably not if you are in an urban area. Even Musk himself, with his huge vested interest in promoting the technology, often points out in interviews that the technology is primarily targeted at relatively sparsely populated areas and isn’t really applicable to serving large numbers of users in densely populated urban areas because the contention on the limited bandwidth from the satellites, even with Starlink’s planned huge number of satellites, would drop individual data rates too low if too many people in a single area are signed up. Personally I don’t care much about 5g either right now. At home… Read more »

dave12
dave12
2 months ago

LOL this is a typical Boris cock up

Ron5
Ron5
2 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Pretty sure it was Theresa that let the dogs in against all advice.

dave12
dave12
2 months ago
Reply to  Ron5

Well he had the chance to stop it in January.

HF
HF
2 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Like the masks… and everything else he touches

DRS
DRS
2 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Actually this has a bit of playing off both side to get what we want. Either a strike of genius or blind luck. 🙂 See one web post above.

HF
HF
2 months ago

Allowing a totalitarian state to kept deeply involved in this was always a bad idea.

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  HF

Which totalitarian state is that ?

HF
HF
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Now you’re just being silly !

dan
dan
2 months ago

It’s amazing that after all the Chicoms have done and continue to do to the West and even their own people that we still buy anything from them. They can never be trusted. Nice to see the Brits’ finally waking up to that fact. Also anyone who thinks that this pandemic started by just some old lady/man eating an infected bat is crazy. The Chicoms were most probably messing around with this virus in their labs and it got out. Interesting that the Chicoms have at least 1 bio facility in the same location this all started in……. Btw, I… Read more »

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  dan

Haha Dan…..except that the scientific viewpoint is that this is not a man engineered virus. But then, what do these scientists know…..they still think that NASA got men to the moon and back…haha…haha 🤪

Citizen
Citizen
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

It doesn’t have to have been manmade for the pandemic to have spread from a biolab. They work with all kinds of nasty, naturally-occurring stuff there.

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Citizen

Either way, the assertion that this was being tinkered with in a Lab is without any proof whatsoever. These sorts of allegations are put out there by reactionary xenophobes without a shred of evidence! Porton Down is near Salisbury…I suppose we should accept that the Salisbury poisonings was down to rogue technicians?

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Not just spread by xenophobes, also spread by Trump. In his case its to appeal to his supporters, and win political points and has very little to do with xenophobe.

Russia spread the story that Salisbury poisoning was linked to Porton Down, again to further their political aims.

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

p.s. A lot of people in the US will believe it because their president told them it was the case and not because of xenophober

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Thanks Steve…but I would argue that Trump is a reactionary xenophobe…..amongst other things! We are caught between the economic bullying of both the US and China; and this latest episode is an example of what Britain has to look forward to. Having rejected the economic powerbase of the EU in favour of paddling our own canoe, we are now being shown up for what we really are: a badly led country that has done its best to destroy its own manufacturing capability. The idea that we are going to bestride the world as a great power again is as laughable… Read more »

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Maybe not. No doubt Churchill was a good war leader, but he was not a good PM, which is why he got voted out so fast. He was a drunk, a racist and had no idea how to lead the country in peacetime and we paid heavily as a country for it afterwards. No question Churchhill was the person we needed during the war, but same can be said with Boris, he was the person we needed to get us through the political brexit mess by spinning everything, but his not the person to handle the reality of the exit… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Morning H. Except, that comment “bestride the world as a great power” only ever exists in the minds of folk such as your good self!

I, and many others voted for independence and greater immigration controls, not world domination. The Empire is long gone. Even if the UK is weaker for it. That, considering the UK is in the G8 of economic nations and not Mozambique, is in our hands.

Herodotus
2 months ago

Yes, perhaps you did? But that doesn’t alter the situation we find ourselves in. There seems to be a level of denial about the economic future of our country. Leading industrialists and economics experts have argued against the direction we have taken. But who cares, it is more important to have greater control over immigration. I don’t see the number of illegals crossing the channel reducing and Britain’s offer to 3million Hong Kong Chinese kind of mitigates against the concept of planned immigration. And who is rubbing their hands together at our new found freedom? Well, there won’t be many… Read more »

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

A bit too late to worry about brexit, its happened and we take the positive or negative consequences of it.

What is now important is that we do not band over backwards to every country in the world just to get a trade deal with them, we need to ensure that our interests are taken into account rather than signing whatever the other country offers so we can say we have trade deals.

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

If we bail out of Europe without a deal, this country will be at the mercy of the carpet-baggers…we are very close to being up shit creek, without a paddle!

Steve
Steve
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Worst case is we have WTO rules, yes it will mean a significant hit to the GDP, but after Covid i doubt anyone will be able to split the two and its not the end of the world scenario. As always Boris will spin it and blame the EU/rest of the world for not playing fair in the negotiations and blame Covid etc rather than taking any ownership for failing to get deals done. If we don’t get good trade deals, financially for sure the country will be worse off than before Brexit, but the country has spoken and they… Read more »

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Thanks for that Steve….I largely agree with your observations. I think the impact of the Huawei ‘about turn’ is both humiliating for Britain and signals the sort of bully-boy relationship we will have with the US going forwards. This is extremely embarrassing …. not quite on the scale of Suez in 1956, but not far off it. Our credibility as a post-Brexit independent state has been dealt a sizable blow. I suspect that there will be a good few bureaucrats in Brussels having a good snigger at this one. And who could blame them.

OldSchool
OldSchool
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Ah. Good ol’ europe. Do you mean the same bunch of countries who have sponged off the USA and the UK for the last hundred years ??
Just for starters France and Italy have never paid their WW1 debts to UK – in todays terms using price of gold France woould owe UK roughly 250 bn sterling….and to USA even more….

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  OldSchool

The debate is about Britain and its future, not Europe 100 years ago.

OldSchool
OldSchool
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

Money is still owed mate. And by those who insist the UK must pay …its called hypocrisy.

julian1
julian1
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

of course the great irony is that Brexit may well lead to greater levels of immigration not less. Many of those people will be allowed residence because they have sought-after skills. Their own, poor, native countries will be denied those skills and the investments made in them…

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  julian1

I agree, but then this has been a poorly thought out issue to start with. The scenario that you illustrate is already being played out! Plebiscites are a load of tosh when it comes to complex issues!

julian1
julian1
2 months ago
Reply to  Herodotus

agreed. better for town/council level only.

Reaper
Reaper
2 months ago

Ok. Result…But what about the other Chinese tech? Chinese involvement in other core infrastructure runs deep. Very deep. I seem to be the only person in the uk that remembers the revelation that the UK signed a huge 3 or 4g contract with huawei without consulting Whitehall first. There was uproar. For all of 5 minutes before China got upset. Certain people have sold the UK out for a quick buck. Our PM and his family are held firmly by the balls by Jinping Independent Traders. The only person who has had the balls to call them out for what… Read more »

Herodotus
2 months ago
Reply to  Reaper

And your point is?

Frank62
Frank62
2 months ago

Best news since we restored carrier capability. PRC assuances are worthless. Their actions speak far louder than their propaganda. We were nuts to have entertained it for so long.

john melling
2 months ago

As of today-

Wonder if this is true

The British government asked Japan to help build its 5G wireless networks without Huawei Technologies

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/uk-asks-japan-for-huawei-alternatives-in-5g-networks-nikkei/ar-BB16UECE?ocid=msedgntp