Drone imagery shows the progress of a massive new ‘frigate factory’ in Glasgow.

The massive facility at Govan represents a huge boost in capability for UK naval shipbuilding.

The new ‘frigate factory’ will consist of more than 6,000 tonnes of steel and 20,000m3 of concrete. It will be able to fit two Type 26 Frigates side by side.

For the avoidance of doubt, the drone footage was obtained legally by a qualified person in adherence to UK drone legislation and guidance. In addition, the drone is insured, and a flight plan was submitted using drone safety software.

Below is how the site looked last year.

I previously reported that planning permission had been granted for a huge new shipbuilding hall at the BAE Systems site in Govan, with work on the first ship to be built in the facility starting soon.

Huge Glasgow ‘frigate factory’ planning permission granted

It is hoped that Type 26 ships 3 to 8 will be assembled in this facility, with the first two being assembled outdoors. HMS Glasgow is shown below when she was being put together on the hard standing, adjacent to the wet basin area after she was built in sections in the existing build hall and joined together.

Image George Allison

The new build hall would allow ships to be built indoors, protecting them against the elements and would form part of an effort to modernise the yard.

In terms of dimensions, the shipbuilding hall will be approximately 81 metres wide, 170 metres long and 49 metres high to the building ridge line. This represents a massive expansion of capabilities and capacity at the yard, as let’s not forget, the original build hall will still be available for use.

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George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Frank
Frank
1 month ago

yes…. ok…. we know about the Drone now thanks ….. 😂…. Seriously though…. This is great coverage and It’s also great to see the progress…. Will the 13000 ton T83’s fit in there though ?

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Frank

13000 ton type 83….in your dreams Frank…we will be lucky to get something at 10,000 tones…I’m betting a modest 8000 tones.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The difference in cost between 10,000 and 14,000 tons hull is peanuts.

Hulls are cheap and systems expensive.

The issue is what the load out is and how long the tubes are etc. If it needs loads of 7+m strike tubes then it will be huge. That works in favour of a big high mounted radar.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Since when has “not penny pinching” ever been a thing supportive…the RN got its way with bigger for the T26..but it effectively battled for a decade and got them built a decade to late to win that one…chances are…..t31 another win..but now the navy is stacking them with capabilities…( just like they planned)…not sure the treasury will give in next time.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The new BAE plates line should help get costs down as there is less expensive labour involved.

The irony would have been that RAN T26 would have been modern build methods compared to RN….

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Reduce the F-35 order and invite Saudi Arabia to join Tempest and you have more money to play with.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I’m not sure it’s wise to b reducing any present programmes for what is essentially jam in 2 decades..the unfortunate truth is we are not fighting the next major war with tempest and T83 we will likely instead be fighting a world war with F35 and T45.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago

Internal Volume needed for VLS tubes is a massive drive on ships size and displacement They take up valuable internal space/volume over multiple decks usually down the centre line in the places where you really want to be able to put other stuff.

The USN recognised the issue with ABs and went for MK 57 down the outside edge of the vessel on its Zumwalt’s. A future RN destroyer may consider this as well.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Indeed.

But not all flavours of missile go into Mk57?

Sea Ceptor etc are shorter so can fill the void volume to the sides of strike VLS.

Although it will make the passageway layouts rather hard!

Lee John fursman
Lee John fursman
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

We should seriously start looking at history… Big is not sinonimous of better…
We used bloody grain ships to defeat the u. boats.. I would prefer less tonnage but more ships as we call ourselves a global power.

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago

Bigger ships is better for the modern navy, for one its better for the crew, larger accommodations with more facilities are vital.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

And survivability as well as reloads…

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Frank

What makes you think that by the time we get round to it, technology will not have moved on ? The US is getting massively into distributed capabilities and system of systems. Build big and we can afford fewer ships and even with increased automation you need a bigger crew, also one big target. Whereas a ship like the T45 has the space and power to control other assets distributed around other smaller nodal vessels. One great regret the RN must have is cancelling CEC compatibility for the T45, I know a lot can be done via the link systems… Read more »

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Seems unlikely. With the few hull numbers we have we need full warships capable of doing more than just their combat role.
Plus autonomous combat platforms are still a long way off, the US Navy has pushed their project back.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

It’s a real two fold problem. Firstly Ai is progressing at such a rate that it is practically impossible to design a platform now that will still be strictly relevant within the decade it will take to launch whatever decisions one sets in steel now. Fact is we are at the point Turing predicted would actually happen by 2000 in that Ai can write code superior to humans and thus ultimately can create a next version superior to itself. Presently no one knows the implications of this and what pushback will occur. AGI is now being predicted to be announced… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Aren’t battle carriers the up and coming thing? Why not convert QEC 🙂

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

Who mentioned Autonomous ? I didn’t and in Blue Water Surface ships I don’t see it happening. Lean manning is necessary for Maintenance, RAS, ship handling, DC etc etc. But imagine this a T45 sized ship, networked to 4/6 ships of 3/3.5 K tons all centrally controlled but heavily armed. For example if you look at the LCS2 design but without the hanger or flight deck, just think how many VLS could be accommodated in the area occupied by the Mission bay. As for crew comfort it operates with a crew of just 40. The US has parked its Autonomous… Read more »

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

You’re saying the arsenal vessels would have a crew? But anyway, the problem is even if these hulls skipped on sensors and larger crews and focused on just carrying weapons and equipment around, they’re still going to cost as much as a small frigate, while not being able to do anything other than follow the lead destroyer around, and the number of lead destroyers will inevitably be reduced

The fact the program is called T83 suggests more investment into a large do all platform than a distributed platform

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

CEC was in a lot of ways a way for the USN to use its then semi active homing SM2s of which it has a metric S**t tonne to engage and be controlled by other units. The RN going for Active homing missiles reduced the need for it. Compare a T45 to a block 3 AB…no trackers required on a T45. New Link systems such as L16 and especially L22 give any ship a massive situational awareness. L22 is a massive step up for the old L11. It uses better waveforms and bandwidth, auto corelation (Thank God!) super mesh networks… Read more »

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Completely agree and yep the US CEC was a product of the US and their obsession with the SM missile series. In fact once the dust settles I’d love to see the KIll ratio of SM2, ESSM, Aster and CAMM (we can all dream). But they aren’t the only folks with a CEC in operational use, have a look at India theirs uses the BARAK 8 active homing missile. I do think that Netcentric is the way to go, distributed weapons over multiple platforms and systems has a lot of advantages over the “one big Cruiser” some seem fixated on.… Read more »

Netking
Netking
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

I’d love to see the KIll ratio of SM2, ESSM, Aster and CAMM (we can all dream).”

Some of the more jingoistic type might be disappointed if we ever saw those figures and hopefully the tired myth of a one shot/one kill missile might finally die. Look at the video released by the mod of the hms Richmond taking out the houthie drones and although the video is a little confusing, it does appear that multiple interceptors are fired per target, as is the practice of the usn that is often derided on these boards.

Netking
Netking
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

I had this same discussion with Supportive Bloke about CEC a few weeks ago and the way you all are describing it as little more than a data link is simply not the case. There is a great publicly available document from the John Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory that goes into great detail about data fusion and all the other things that it does. Think of it in terms of the much heralded data fusion of the sensors on the F-35 and then think of it across multiple dispersed platforms on the surface, air and even on land and you… Read more »

Frank
Frank
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

“What makes you think that by the time we get round to it, technology will not have moved on” ? How the Dickens did you come up with that after reading what I wrote ? Seriously mate, you create arguments out of thin air…… My actual comment was based on the history of RN ships being designed larger than their Predecessors….. It’s also based upon the current trend in Navy’s all around the World… China’s Type 055 is an example….11-13000 tns, 180 metres long. It’s also based on the fact the Frigate Factory is just long enough for the 5… Read more »

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Frank

Firstly its not my argument nore one I made up out of “out of thin air” ! It’s based on the work presently being done be the “Royal Navy Development Directorate” who are working on “The Navy after Next”. The present RN build strategy for the Next Navy is mature and in build, but given those advances in tech they are thinking 15/20 years ahead. And its precisely Technology moving on that is driving their thought processes to think Out of the Box. Unlike yours which just assumes that because we have been building bigger for the last 30 years… Read more »

frank
frank
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

TLDR….. You certainly like to create an argument out of thin air though… I feel your pain, it must be horrible carrying the weight of your Ego on just the one chipped Shoulder. 🙄…. Loving this place today, more Karens than you can shake a stick at….

ChrisJ
ChrisJ
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Forgive my ignorance, whats CEC?

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

So in theory once the new shed is open the site could be building 4 ships at a time…..so there could be a few years shaved off the commission time of the second order batch of T26 frigates…if HMG really wanted to speed things up a bit.

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Its really inefficient building them in the current sheds, plus you’d have to massively expand the work force which wouldn’t be worth it when the smaller T83 order comes up.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

Indeed in normal times that would be the case..but our enemies have moved their economies to or close to wartime production ( china may well be putting close to 20% of its very large GDP into defence…Russia we know is in the 40% mark)…at some point the western democracies may just open their eyes and realise they are being out produced by states that consider us to be the enemy and decide that crash programmes are in-fact needed and that some time in 3035 is not really useful if your enemy may decide to go to war with you on… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

We can’t permanently go round on a war footing economy or industry scaled for war time production. The Soviets tried this, did not work out well for them.

Also really f**ks up places like Glasgow and Belfast if their principal industrial sector keeps going boom and bust.

Naval strategy is build strategy. War time construction is negligible outside of minor war vesells.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Ummm …er…it may depend on the type of conflict. Orcs are in transition to wartime production; if UKR conflict lasts, may observe significant naval construction. Of course, if a conventional conflict escalates…

Jim
Jim
1 month ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Yes but Orcs can’t build ships 😀 Orcs war time economy is likely to be fairly pathetic as well in terms of anything outside of artillery and very basic weapon systems. They are reduced to making most complicated systems like aircraft by hand. It’s just hard to see them ever having a capability to ramp anything up compared to western economies. Chin Comms are a different story, however China is about to find out what happens when you quickly ramp up a navy from nothing. The maintenance bill will soon be coming for their new fleet and it’s likely to… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

The Red Army (and state) were universally derided for performance during the initial phases of Operation Barbarossa; it was absolutely not the case during the seige of Berlin. To summarize: Orcs (and Velociraptors) learn (and adapt).

Believe it is a corollary of Murphy’s Law of War: Always dangerous to underestimate an adversary, until completely vanquished.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Not so sure about that one, China seems to be adopting the Japanese build, use, replace strategy with a life of 15/20 years. It avoids the cost of expensive upgrades, refits or Lifex and keeps the industrial base churning them out. It’s exactly what the RN wanted to do with the T23, built for just an 18 year life and then to be replaced, difference is they actually do it. Small fact each T23 cost £130 million to build, but all the refits, Lifex, upgrades etc all add up to 3 to 4 times that amount. Japan has a superb… Read more »

Frank
Frank
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

All very true.

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

I think China is still learning (stealing IP) so by having shorter service life they can have newer designed coming in sooner.

Frank
Frank
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

History shows what the Russians can achieve…. you might want to read up about it.🤔

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Not sure the UK isnt one of those Powers btw. Two Worlds Wars in short time was bad news but the losses in skilled manpower was very bad nationally.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

It sort of depends….the Chinese are planning out a long term..long war conflict approach..and we are going to be the recipients of that love… Simply put if we know it’s coming at some point we have to react…the question is very much when…is it: 1) well before the war to try and build a massive level of deterrence using the paradigm it does not matter how much we spend if we can stop a world war before it starts.. as a world wars going to cost us everything and even if we win it will be a pyrrhic victory that… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Jonathan
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

You certainly have a point, Germany as Russia is now supported its economy through massive armament production but that was unsustainable so the only answer was to use it to acquire new territories it could milk while keeping potential discontent in its population drowned in nationalistic fervour. China is a little less predictable as its economy though travelling away from its former reliance is still very reliant on Western consumer demand for growth and economic prosperity. It’s why its actions with Russia are despite the ‘unlimited’ alliance is very careful not to get directly involved. But yes conflict still seems… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

China’s compete lack of natural resources and inability to feed itself without massive imports also being a big issue for them. If China goes to war with the USA 600 million Chinese will be dead of starvation with in 1 year.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

China has been stockpiling vast amounts of food including 69% of the globe’s corn reserves, 60% of its rice, and 51% of its wheat. It can feed its population for a few years….once you get down to what china is doing you realise it’s going through every possible weakness and mitigating that as a route of attack….

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Really ? They have the vast majority of the planets Rare Earth Minerals in China, without those modern electronics can’t be manufactured. The West is busily trying to locate their own supplies.

Frank
Frank
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Is there a special Comic book you get delivered weekly, that contains all this info you share on here ?

This one statement has no factual basis whatsoever…. “No Natural Resources” Really ? Seriously ?

600 million Chinese will be dead of starvation within 1 year ????

I so much look forward to reading your stuff, 😂

Jim
Jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Anyone spending 20% of GDP on defence will very quickly bankrupt themselves communist state or not.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Yes they will but it would take a significant number of years….that’s what happened to the USSR but it took decades…the third Reich had massively increased spending of 10%-20% GDP on defence from 1936…china could quite easily maintain spending at that level for a good number of years….but generally nations that do this either have a plan and road towards war or fall over….betting that china will go bankrupt before it goes to war…is not a great gamble..it is after all a vast economy.

Finney
Finney
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Nazi Germany would have gone bankrupt in 1939 or 1940 though if they hadn’t annexed and seized various territories and gold reserves such as Austria’s and Czechslovakia’s in ’38/’39, more than 10% in unsustainable and will quickly lead to relative economic decline.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Finney

the Soviet Union spent an average of 17% gdp for 2 decades before hitting bankruptcy….but to contain that the west was spending an average of 6.5% and its political will was lazer focused on conflict with not an inch of give…to the extent even when the soviets had military advantage they backed away from conflict…we are now trying to contain a nation with a far higher GDP than the soviets, a far better and healthier economy, with world wide access to markets that we no longer control in the same way, with us spend of only 2% GDP and showing… Read more »

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

There’s no way we can spend that much without a massive shake up. 53% of the population get more out of the system than they put in and thats increasing. You tax the rich more yep but most of them don’t make money from the UK, they make it globally and even with a sniff of war breaking out those funds will dry up. Even if we could solve the financial part, we don’t have enough engineers or skilled workers. The ones we do have we want to throw at net zero projects. We don’t have enough houses, schools hospitals… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  expat

In reality I think there is scope for significant increases defence spending..in reality you can use it as a fiscal stimulus…at least short to medium term ( the Nazis used it that way) long term it will create drag as you move from capital investment to ongoing costs ( as happened to the Soviet Union)..id there was a will we could find an extra 20billion..it would hurt but we could find it..after all the winter fuel allowance is 2.1billion and child benfits cost 15.5 billion..just those two universal benefits would pay for a 3.5% defence budge…( I hate universal benefits..benefits… Read more »

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Our politicos are all non-starters on defence it seems. The terrible duo of Sunak and Hunt worry me in their complacency. I haven’t even dared think what Labour might do.

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

To an extent it doesn’t matter how much you have going into a conflict, if the other side believes it can out match you in production then the deterrence won’t work. Germany had masses of equipment but never actually recovered from tank losses early in the war. US had almost no credible tanks but with the UK was soon out producing Germany with its outdated manufacturing techniques Ultimately the US and Europe with countries like Japan and South Korea combined can still out produce China, Russia, NK and Iran. But there’s alarm bells, we’re abandoning allies like Saudi/UAE who are… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  expat

re deterrent… it’s multi faceted, but most serous analysts believe that a big part of why china thinks it can win is will..it thinks we have essentially already lost the will to fight a long global conflict….if the west can show appsolute commitment to fighting and winning a war..it’s very possible china may back away..you can only show will by massive investment in all facets of a future conflict…that includes a commitment to putting hulls in the water quickly…the sad truth is 2035 is probably completely irrelevant if our navies and economies are shattered in war in the 2027-2030 period..unfortunately… Read more »

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Dont agree with war production being minor warships. Agreed we pulled production of battleships but we were churning out Colossus class 14000t and Africa 35000t carriers etc right to the end. Also most of the Colony and Dido class cruisers were war or emergency pre war build.
We do need another yard in England though for lighter craft.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

…”some time in 3035″… Commentary on pace of government action, or keystroke error? If the former, hilarious, yet simultaneously, poignantly saddening. 🤔😂😱

Lee John fursman
Lee John fursman
1 month ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I remember someone saying “in times of peace prepare for war ‘…. Never understood it though 😁

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago

Can’t prepare for war in times of war can you.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 month ago

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. 👍

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

If you build big fleets or volumes of any military kit you have to pay the up keep. What we need is the ability to ramp up, so factories that can switch from a commercial product to a defence product. And I agree with Jim, best to build slow and have something in production for equipment that can’t come from switching commercial production. Its easier to build more of something that’s in production than start fresh. Although there are historic examples like liberty ships which do buck that trend, but we are devoid of the industrial titan mindset in the… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

I do t think so.

Sub blocks on the new plate lines.

Block built into mega blocks in the existing build sheds

Mega blocks put together in the new build sheds.

The new automated plate lines will mean the previous skills are used where needed.

Also BAE are launching a skills academy – must be training for something?

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago

No yeh they’ll probably still use them for some work. But they won’t be building 2 in the main shed and doing the same halfsies construction in the old ones.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago

I think you may find that is more to do with the Demographics of the ageing workforce, than future projects in the pipeline.
Its the same at BAe up at Barrow and here on Raynesway in Derby, it wasn’t only capabilities that were lost (Heavy AFV & Guns etc) but few or no Apprentices were recruited or trained.
All those delayed, reduced or cancelled Defence projects in the 00’s ripped an entire generation of skilled workers out of the workforce. Whats left is getting old, retiring or just not as fast thay used to be (I’m one of retired ones).

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Could well be demographics as well.

Also the lack of any skilled and qualified recruits from any parallel industry…..

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Well that sort of depends on how you define “the site could be building” ! Sorry to pedantic but in the broadest sense of the word if building starts with the 1st steel being officially cut then at present there are 3 being built at Govan. The problem is that if you accelerate the build process without further orders you run out of work.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

the running out of work would be true normally but the reality of our escort fleet is that we have a deficit so we can afford to accelerate and then go to a steady state…the problem we have had is that the fleet has not been in a steady state..it was declining..which lead to a massive decrease in capacity…but it did not decline to a steady state it declined below what we needed for peacetime…we are now in a pre war time and so actually need a very significant number of hulls build to get to a steady state…we in… Read more »

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago

George is there any chance of reposting the 1:200/250 elevation plans from the original Feb 23 post. They just appear as blanks, they give a better perspective of layout etc.

Pretty Please 😉

Matt
Matt
1 month ago

Brilliant! Hope the efficiency gains mean UK ships can be done more cheaply and exports can be done in future.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 month ago

Good. Moving ahead.

Tom
Tom
1 month ago

That’s a huge ‘dance floor’.

Lee John fursman
Lee John fursman
1 month ago
Reply to  Tom

It looks a bit like a basket with all our eggs together if you ask me.. The yanks had this idea at pearl Harbour.

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago

We would see the enemy coming along longer before they could get into range

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago

More ships were sunk at Darwin than Pearl Harbour.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago

You ever been to Newport News ?

DaveyB.
DaveyB.
1 month ago

Does make you wonder, what would the situation be like, if the Government hadn’t been dithering 10 years ago? Whereby BAe would then have decided to build the Frigate factory earlier. Would we have seen the T26 being built earlier, perhaps coming into service earlier and then standing a chance to compete in the USN future frigate competition won by the FREMM?

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 month ago
Reply to  DaveyB.

Hindsight is generally 20/20. HMG ‘shell shocked’ by the events of 2008, which resulted in the disastrous 2010 SDR. However, believe you are correct that T-26 would have prevailed in an open competition. History, replete w/ missed opportunities. ☹️

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I wouldn’t call T26 winning a certainty, especially with Fincatieri already having an established US shipyard

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

Unfortunately, we will never know. (Have always been an advocate of full and open competition, whenever and wherever possible.)

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

Yes but it’s product was the LCS1 😫

AlexS
AlexS
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

LCS was no Fincantieri creation, it only bought the Marinette shipyard after.

Jim
Jim
1 month ago
Reply to  DaveyB.

BAE wanted the government to pay for its frigate factory. Then Babcock started building frigates in a frigate factory it built its self and BAE miraculously found the money to build its own.

Giving BAE a monopoly on UK ship building was a disaster, we are in a much better place now.

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Tbf what was the incentive to build a factory with a small and low order. Though the competition with babcock helps.

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

The order value for the first 3 T26 was much higher than 5 T31. So really we must ask why did it take BAe so long to commit when a competitor did it off of an order with a fraction of the value.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim

Heard various stories around this, another view being that Bae wanted orders to want to commit to the factory, the delays and unpredictability scuppering it. I suspect as usual it’s somewhere between the two. Either way cost us seriously now.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Absolutely true ! BAe felt completely and repeatedly shafted by MOD and wasn’t prepared to invest in the Frigate Factory at Scotstoun based on a firm order of only 3 ships.
Astute 12 to 8 and only 7 ordered.
T45 12 to 8 and only 6 ordered.
T26 13 down to 8 but only 3 ordered. (Thats when they snapped).

Who the hell would invest £££ based on that track record ?

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Yet Babcock did on an order of far lower value than 3 T26.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  expat

I think Babcock just felt the love emanating from the MOD 🙂

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Indeed the Ministry wanted competition. And if I remember there were hints of Babcock actually struggling around that time. To get themselves back onto a productive future I think Management decided that they needed to supplement their operational and support competences far and wide with far greater ability to build warships to promote, strengthen and tie in those activities and generally expand their competences and ability at greater depth to gain more self generating wide ranging business World wide. So it suited both parties while putting Babcock on a more sustainable path to ongoing prosperity. Does look like it’s working… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

All will be well; all manner of things will be well. Julian of Norwich. 🙂

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  DaveyB.

The Connies are going to be late by a couple of years and the latest informed cost projection has them costing around 800mil USD that’s T26 first of class territory! With the changes required by the USN to the internal systems and external hull and structure the first of class trials will be interesting. They are going to be looking rather embarrassed if they get it to sea and , for the same cost its performance is less than a T26!

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

M8 That will be nothing compared to when they see the Canadian version (though it is a bit OTT).

AlexS
AlexS
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Well T26 have an old radar when Connies have a much better and modern radar, long range AAW capability etc.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  AlexS

Old?
Define old.
If your definition is a radar with no upgrades done to it since it was fitted then yes it’s old.

However it’s had a lot of upgrades done to it. That’s the Perks of it being a software controlled radar. Update the software and new capabilities are revealed.
Its also got a decent range and a few other tricks up it’s sleeve.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago

Is this supposed to be finished later this year? Lot of work to do if so.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Not really, once the ground work is all done and they start on the steel work, these things go up in weeks. Its like a massive prefabricated Meccano set. Where I used to work, we were having a new storage warehouse built it was one year of piledriving and then concrete laying. I went on Holiday for 3 weeks and it was just bare concrete, came back it was all up, they were white lining the newly laid car park and allocating spots.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Thanks for that I can’t help being stuck somewhere between balancng watching a shopping development in Hertford I visit regularly progressing at a snails pace taking 3 years to bring to (near) fruition and Space X building a Mega Bay in around 3 months.

Mark Ayscough
Mark Ayscough
1 month ago

I would be very interested to know the total build capacity of the UK with the new factory. Obviously China is leaps and bounds above everyone in terms of how many ships they can poop out of their shipyards, but comparing the UK to a similar nation like Japan, the Japanese announced late last year they were building 12 (!) “New FFM” frigates on top of their existing 12 (!!) build for the Mogami class. And when do they expect them to be complete? 2028. You can argue that Japan is rightly scared of Chinese build up and is hitting… Read more »

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Ayscough

Japan has a larger economy, and the threat to them is much closer to home, which helps with military investment

Mark Ayscough
Mark Ayscough
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugo

I can understand that sentiment as an excuse to ignore the build-ups our Polish, German, Australian and Japanese allies, but they are exactly that, our allies, and one would hope that we will back up our commitments as allies with actual investment. Maybe I am too optimistic, but I am a UK expat living in Japan since 2015, so I missed most of the horror of the last 9 years.

Hugo
Hugo
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Ayscough

I agree, it’s just said excuse is exactly why the politicians don’t care and the public have no intrest.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Ayscough

What an odd question and I doubt if anyone can give you a definitive answer. What we are seeing on the Clyde and at Barrow is a slow, peacetime build process governed by the annual contractual scheduled payments to the builders. But what we do know is that the combined BAe Govan and Scotstoun sites are capable of building complex modern Warships at a far higher pace the this. And they did so using old fashioned slipways with some Mega Blocks shipped in from Portsmouth and CL. And to honest the buld rate was impressive 6 T45s delivered in just… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Interesting reflection on the T45 build rate. Can’t help but think that while this frigate factory investment is meant to ensure on time delivery of T26 as T23 replacements, it also positions BAE for an increase in frigate and destroyer numbers.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Ayscough

I don’t know without checking each class but my understanding their latest frigates are massively well armed in numbers and capability that put even US destroyers to shame. Indeed there was even talk in Congress arguing the US should allow Japan to build some ships for them to both expand the US fleet quickly and improve upon their individual lethality. It will be interesting to see how the FREMM based frigates will work out but I will be surprised if they get close to the capabilities of the modern Japanese or South Korean equivalents.

expat
expat
1 month ago

I was wondering how they would get large block from the current build halls to the new one. The answer is they won’t, the build will still be in blocks but smaller blocks and keel up. This is similar to how the T31 is being constructed and when you watch video’s from others yards the way block builds are done by the world leading yards. We’ve done large blocks and joined for a couple of reasons in the past 1) Carriers distributed build 2) not a big enough build hall, so large blocks are built inside then joined.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  expat

Interesting a similar question to one I posed here some time back. So everything will be built in the new halls? Or are you saying smaller blocks than present will be constructed in the present halls and shifted to the new one? I assume the latter.

Expat
Expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Yes the latter. Google ‘the crazy process of building the world’s largest cruise ship’. The first video shows how its done. Keel up with blocks, no large sub blocks.