Hull of Type 26 Frigate HMS Glasgow taking shape

Morning Ulya.

I am not one to judge warships, we have plenty of experts here for that with the relevant experience.

To my ignorant eye they look good, typically well armed for a Russian vessel, but only 2500 tonnes with 4,000 range?
T31 bigger I think?

$150 million per ship? Pheew.

Good afternoon Daniele, yes, I think the type 31 will be bigger, and the range will be better, it suits UK needs better, armament will be about the same as 20385, UK ships always seem under armed to me but I am not sure expert in ships. Looking forward to see what design is picked

Just for the record Ulya, It’s not me downvoting your posts.

All those who just -10’d you Cam. Hi guys!

Trolls, Probably a multi Account holder or holders. They tend to be Passive Aggressive types with attention seeking mental disorders. Having the downvote facility makes them feel good.

Your -11 score is particularly odd though as you don’t appear to be argumentative or Controversial so I’d just Ignore it.

It’s new and the kids love playing games, hopefully they will eventually get bored… Though not just yet as you can/will see.

Nurse training colleges isn’t a bad idea but at the same time there are lots of institutions already offering nursing training and as far as I’m aware (happy to be proved wrong) there isn’t a shortage of training places but an issue with retention. Which better pay may help so agree with you on pay.

On immigration don’t necessarily think they’re the ones putting burden on public services, immigrants typically, not always, tend to be younger and therefore on average are less of a burden on public services like NHS. Ageing population is a bigger burden on NHS. Yes immigration has impact on housing but this is also an issue of a broken housing policy from governments for the last 30 years, older generations who benefitted from cheap houses when they were younger but have now helped drive the price of housing up leaving current younger generation unable to afford to buy first home (speaking for personal experience of starting to look to buy my first place and seeing how difficult it is to do so). OBR report in 2013 (yes older but whilst figures while differ base principals will have changed less so), concluded higher migration could be seen as delaying some of the fiscal challenges of an ageing population, but not as a way resolving them permanently. So migration short term helps with our ageing challenge, but would suggest government policy needs to change long term to address ageing population.

Perhaps older generations who got a lot more free things in the past (tution etc.) – and arguably have more responsibility for political situation of recent history – not putting cost burden on younger generations who have not received same benefits.

Morning Robert

Thank you. Happy to discuss.

My suggestion of Nurse Training colleges was along the lines of Corbyn’s suggestion of a national education service. I concede I know nothing on where or how our nurses are trained.
I am aware plenty come from abroad, as migrants. So why can we not train more of our own, pay them well to attract, in formal, regional centres? That was my thinking.

As I have conceded many times, yes an ageing population is also a major issue, migration is only adding to it.

“immigrants typically, not always, tend to be younger and therefore on average are less of a burden on public services”

Yes, until they are then allowed to bring their extended families with them. And then? One becomes 4, 5, 6, 7?
When they themselves are then elderly and in pensionable age in 50 years time, what will be the pension situation then?

Housing? I’m not on about costs, I’m on about their physical presence. They cannot all be built on Brown field sites.
The Green belt around London is inexorably vanishing, slowly but surely. I don’t want to live in a land of concrete. An exaggeration on my part yes, as the countryside will not totally vanish.
Costs wise for young people yes I agree and happily concede your points, I was fortunate to be younger at a better time.

Added to the house is then the sewage system, the road linking it, the cars on that road, the utilities, the extra transport links required, the new jobs, the factories, the shops, the greater consumption of food, water, pollution, and on and on and on.

Where is the money and resources for this?

And before any one thinks it, no I’m not one of those environmentalists in London causing trouble. But what they are saying is broadly correct.

So when we add 1.2 million people or thereabouts for the next 50 years, assuming that figure remains the same, where does it end?

80 million? 90 million?

In a country the size of the UK?

You’re happy with that? I’m not. The roads are gridlocked as it is here in the South East.

Politicians will just kick the can down the road, as always, for another to sort out, or make even worse.

Cheers.

Definitely needs to be a change in pay for nurses.

In terms of immigrants bringing family the rules in place by government are reasonably stringent. One of principle being have to be financially able to support self with reliance on public services. (see as a parent section: https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/parent).

Housing wise I agree not enough built, and I feel part of that requires a culturally change. Even excluding immigration are population is growing, as disappointing as it is, its no longer sustainable for everyone to expect a semi-detached with a garden etc. We need to accept more people will need to live in apartments (more people pee sq metre of land), and builders should be encouraged to focus on well designed modern family apartments, rather than ever tinier poorly designed semis.

Infrastructure wise Britain has dropped the ball since the 60s. Just need to look at difference in rail infrastructure between us and the continent. I’ve travelled on nicer, more modern, quicker trains in the former eastern bloc. Again (and this maybe due to fundamentally different politically views) I see growing population (through both immigration and birth vs death rate) as highlighting years and years of lack of investment in infrastructure as opposed to being the cause of it being overwhelmed.

My view? Absolute minimal investment in roads, invest more in rail, so better service and lower fairs. Push freight between major population hubs onto expanded rail network. Edge of city freight centres where rail freight can be transferred to smallish electric lorries (short intracity journeys so no need for petrol). Reduces air pollution, less traffic on out of city roads, smaller goods vehicles in cities doing more trageted deliveries rather than massive artics doing multiple stops. I drive to work every day but if the train were affordable I would always get train as far less stress.

The UK is in my opinion not full or close to it as some politicians like to say. Better land use, actually investing in infrastructure and cultural change (we physically can’t all have big houses with big gardens in the suburbs even without immigration). As we face global warming and challenge of CO2 people need to be encouraged to live closer to work and if that happens to be in a big city then we need builders to think about ways to make city family living more attractive.

As I say it could be purely due to I suspect our differing political views but I believe immigration highlights rather than causes the problem. We need to stop doing half hearted infrastructure investment projects one at a time and rather push for big change. Yes it’ll cost a hell of a lot but would have longterm benefits.

As for funding, for a start lets cut the salaries of MPs who are earning £100,000s on the side from family money, investment funds and newspapers columns. MPs are in the role primarily to serve the public and should focus on that rather than being agony aunts for the telegraph, guardian etc. There’s no way the company I work would accept me being paid by a paper to write a weekly column slagging them off. Irregular media interviews to inform the public sure. A weekly rant for mega money, go be a fulltime journalist and let someone else who’s more invested be MP.

Sorry final paragraph was a personal gripe but hopefully understand my viewpoint. Based on experience working as engineer in variety of sectors in my albeiy short career.

Thank you Robert1

It is thoroughly refreshing to discuss an issue where we stand on differing political viewpoints and not let things descend into a slanging mach which often happens elsewhere due to lack of respect of another’s view. Thank you.

Could not agree more concerning your paragraph on MP’s side expenses, fiddling second homes, and all the rest.

I myself work on the railways and I find your comments on railways and freight common sense, and totally beneficial to our roads and the environment! In days past most town stations had a freight yard, now most have had industrial estates built on them.

The removal of many of the overnight mail sorting trains and the demise of Mail Rail in London in favour of lorries adding to the traffic are just two sad examples.

If the expanding population is to accommodated closer to cities, I guess the only ways are up or down.
I recently saw an idea on local news where apartments will be built over the railway line, using otherwise redundant space.

So when will we be full who will decide that ?

Define full? We’ve certainly got shit loads of land left. Infrastructure see my discussion about chronic under investment by government in it.

Your rubbish is why I rarely bother to post on here. Spurious statements, rambling bile and no substance.

“Shitloads of land left” so where do you want to build The Yorkshire Dales, the Lake District,Dartmoor how about the Cotswolds,do you really want to live in a country paved over with concrete and bloody poxy shoddily built housing estates as for high rise apartments you really mean tower blocks ever lived in a tower block you know one built by the council in the sixties and seventies which degenerated into hell hoies within a few years ,lifts not working ,druggies next door,stinking piss stains in the stairwell i’ve seen it lived it thank Christ i worked hard enough and made enough to live in my own home in a lovely quiet part of Cornwall unfortunately that won’t last the county council want to build 400 crap houses less than a mile away from me they haven’t even thought through the consequences of this stupid nonsensical decision just build them to hell with the fact the infrastructure isn’t there and won’t be that is not in their damned plan and btw i work on those damned heaps of crap known as Her Majesty’s Ships they are junk pure and utter junk shoddily built, shoddily equipped,shoddily maintained (mostly foreign labour btw earning a pittance)and dare i say it shoddily manned, i feel a deep sense of shame that the higher echelons of the Navy and the MOD has allowed this to happen but their pensions seem to be more important than the Service.

I was being facetious in saying shit loads of land after being slightly hacked off at being called a cheeky wee prick.

No I don’t propose concreting over national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty. However, there do of course need to be affordable houses/flats built in these areas so young local people don’t feel pushed out by house prices driven up by more wealthy people moving in/2nd homes.

However, there is still lots of land which could be utilised for sensible modern affordable housing. I grew up in the North of England and was surrounded by disused mills and brownfield sites. Encourage the economy outside of the south more people will leave in these areas, and build on the former mill sites etc as a start.

I agree that 60s/70s tower blocks are appalling which is why I said we need well designed apartment buildings.

As for the Navy I’m not in the senior service so couldn’t comment though have worked on navy vessels as a civvie engineer and don’t think the modern vessels are all doom and gloom, issues yes but also some world leading designs.

Others don’t seem to agree but I actually think this is a very valid question we need to be asking despite the fact it is not PC to do so as in all reality anything else environmentally is simply tinkering with symptoms an delaying the inevitable destruction of this planet. I was told when at school in the 60s this country could fully probably support about 40 odd million people in a relative self sufficient to manner. Today despite all the advancements I would estimate that figure has increased in all honesty not a lot. So we are already well over a third over populated. We can’t produce remotely enough food despite imported food that will inevitably decline in future decades. We Are even within this sub optimal food supply wiping out our wildlife on a massive scale and most land suitable for food production is equally the best suited for building upon. A predominantly vegetarian diet is a must for us simply to survive ignoring population growth.

The greens when they were the Ecology Party and for some time thereafter had a stable population as their prime
Policy, sadly long sold out on that one but without it all the good intensions of the demonstrators in London are but delaying tactics to the inevitable outcome because the planet and resources are finite that is fact. As I say it’s simply not considered acceptable to state that damn obvious mathmatical fact but it needs to be the prime discussion while we play for time by reducing our carbon emissions and other destructive activities. So yes you were brave to ask that question and it needs to be answered because I can assure everyone if they think technology, or worse still some nebulous God is going to do it for us they are naive beyond imagination.

I think Spy’s comment is correct. Stuff the PC! It is a valid question to ask how many more people a country the size of the United Kingdom can take and all the infrastructure requirements and social consequences that brings.

In this PC world these valid questions are shouted down. Well, they need answering.

Until they are the problem will not go away. My prediction?
Can kicked down road by any government in power who never have the BALLS to say enough is enough.

Could you give me a time when i should present myself to Dignitas i am 56 what would you suggest maybe 67 then the government won’t have to pay for my old age pension which i have contributed to for the last 40 bloody years you cheeky little prick.

Did I once say present yourself to dignitas? Did I once say you shouldn’t have your pension?

You didn’t refute any arguments, present evidence, make suggestions, and resorted to “cheeky little prick”. Bravo, reckon you should just retire now, you’ve got the grumpy old git persona down to a tee.

As for your global warming and CO2 BS were you one of those adults with the brainwashed muppet schoolkids that were in Plymouth city centre the other day if you were hope you got my message loud and clear.

Hello Daniele and Robert. Nice to meet you. I cannot comment about transport and housing however when it’s comes to nursing I do have a few opinions? I don’t believe nursing educational centres are needed, the university system is very good at producing well educated and knowledgeable nurses. They need experience but so do most professions when first started. I remember those days well. If the nursing crisis is to be remedied the big issue is money. Pay newly qualified nurses the same as newly qualified teachers (it’s about a considerable difference, not in the nurses favour) and offer nursing students the same welcome bonuses and free training teachers are offered. Medicine can be pretty miserable, 0300 Saturday morning, sat there usually covered in some unmentionables, it’s not fun. It’s hard work and should be well paid. It’s laughable that people are willing to pay nurses less an hour than they do their gardens. Have a happy Easter.

Hi James. Thank you.

Ok, allow me to start by saying that nurses are NOT overpaid, however, your argument is somewhat simplistic. Nurses have a highly structured career pathway which has several years of incremental pay rises at each new level in addition to the annual national pay rise. (Most nurses thus receive 2 pay rises per year and if they are ambitious and successful this equates to a highly financially beneficial career as there are a multitude of opportunities for promotion throughout the NHS) If, however, you stay forever in one place as a staff nurse, you will not benefit from the incremental system for more than perhaps 5 years but you will benefit from ‘time and a third’ for Saturdays and night shifts and ‘time and two thirds’ for working Sundays and Bank Holidays (called the Whitley Scale) which teachers never see. The starting salary is not a reflection on potential earnings for the average ward Nurse on shifts as compared to the average teacher. As a nurse, married to a nurse and brother-in-law to a practicing teacher, I speak with some authority on the matter and a simple comparison of starting salaries does not pass muster.

On the matter of Nursing Colleges some hospitals are considering re-opening their own training schools to return to training their own nurses and moving away from international recruitment drives, which can be very hit and miss due to reliance on outsourced recruitment companies. Derby is one that has already done so but I am not sure on the success value at this stage.

The Royal College of Nursing is campaigning for a return of Bursaries to train nurses at Universities which have seen a dramatic drop since the student loan debacle and free training places are at a minimum now, hence the need for foreign recruitment.

Hello Detek. Thank you for your comments. To be honest I think the comments about pay increases being twice a year are incorrect. Nurses were hit by salary hold put in place by the previous government. Admittedly we were some of the first to get a pay increase after they lifted the freeze but if you look at salaries for nurses they actually fell in real terms from an already low base. Also I work for the NHS (I am on duty today, on a break) and I don’t get any additional money for nights, weekends or bank holidays. We supposedly get time in leu but no one every takes it back because we are short staffed most days. The facts are that we are going to be 70,000 nurses “short” in the next few years. The situation is not going to improve unless there is a real determination on the part of governments to change the pay and conditions. There have been too many wonderful words from politicians with no action to back it up.

Biggest error was making nursing an exclusively degree led occupation. Training needs flexibility to match the job itself who seriously wants to put in the time, cost and effort to gain a degree and then be expected to sort bedpans.

You need to cater for various levels of nursing from basic support to highly qualified and thus a flexible intake with opportunities for those wanting to specialise and progress as well as those who are happy to stay at a more basic level.

Trouble in this country we far too often prefer to impose certification, ticks and banners in place of actual valid assessments and flexible managerial decisions on the job, a total lack of trust in the people by out of touch politicians who think they can control everything by strict regulation and forget the human element. A nation of button pushers and box tickers is the result while you allow others to do the training and then cherry pick their output which ultimately and ironically gets around the strict regulatory expectations inherent in your own training processes far too often.

Married to a community nurse sister (soon to be a District nurse), she has students who now receive no bursary, there is no longer a diploma option, (often taken up by many mature students) only a degree route, the degree course is horrendous the placement workload along with the course work mean that it is almost impossible to take a part time job like many students, placements can often be miles away from home which again adds to costs, we are screaming out for nurses yet it has been made way harder to get into nursing than even 10 years ago. I can honestly say my wife’s nursing degree course was infinitely harder than my MEng degree and even at comparable levels within our industries i earn x3 what she does, where is the incentive for any aspiring nurse? I know this is a little off piste but its the same mindset that has left our armed forces in the state it is today, and for all those that think the state of the NHS is down to Tory policy how misguided are you, ask any nurse at the sharp end and they will tell you, Labour, Tory no different same BS just different fertilizer!

Nurses do not need degrees.

Marc, sorry but anyone going into nursing now needs a nursing degree FACT. The traditional 2 route Diploma or degree disappeared about 12 months ago. You can become a carer, HCA or even an associate nurse but to be a RN you must now have a degree, the nursing Diploma disappeared along with the bursary system, i have spent more years than i care to remember surrounded by nurses trust me on this one if want to be an RN you now need a nursing degree

Spot on. Degrees are considered the answer to everything because the political classes judge themselves as the epitome of what’s right and successful in this world and the days when a real mix of people entered Parliament is long gone. Thus their answers are generally one dimensional and often out of touch with the realities of life and work. The Brexit debate has shone a real light on this failure and society becomes a reflection of that failure. New and better ideas will rarely come out of that building and environment so intwined with tradition for its own sake, privilege, adversarial structures and control. It sucks the air out of true change and innovative ideas whatever the good intensions upon entry.

My first post here, regular reader of the site. Hello to all.

Unfortunately nurse retention is an issue but so is the cost of training now. I am a nurse and there is no way I would have spent £50k training (the approx cost of tuition fees and accommodation now) knowing that I would earn less than £20k a year in my first post. The government (both this and previous governments) have been told for years of the shortage of nurses and have done nothing to reverse the trend. Asking nurses to work in difficult conditions and unsocial hours while paying stupidly low rates was never going to be sustainable. It’s going to get worse post Brexit as the NHS is completely dependent on overseas nurses, carers and domestic staff. Trust me, I work in an A+E and we have lost a fair few staff already.

Our daughter seems to be a real sucker for punishment she is considering going into nursing but has applied to the RN for their student nurse program

I admire anyone going into either profession, your daughter is doing them both. Hats off.

Thanks James coming from a family with a proud Military and NHS background we are really proud of her, her great grandfather who she adored served on HMS Warspite and Colossus and her mother and auntie are both RN’s

I worked abroad for years with no problems as long as i did the paperwork there was no problem what will be the problem post Brexit.(if it happens)

For the past 40 years, I’ve heard the same arguments, Makes me wonder why anyone would want to be a Nurse.

Or put another way, The various Governments of the last 40 years have just Ignored the amazing contributions and sacrifices that Nurses have made.

Same as those who are willing to lay down their lives.

Hello Captain W. I agree completely, service personnel should be paid more, what they do adds to safety and security of the UK massively. And it’s about time the government stopped penny pinching equipment wise. Various recent governments sent them to war woefully ill equipped. Snatch Land Rovers that were useless against IEDs. SA80A1’s that regularly jammed and broke. The proposal to remove the cannon from the Eurofighter. Type 45 missing their 12 VLS Strike launchers. The list goes on. As Brexit has shown governments do what’s good for them. Rant over ?

How the hell can someone mark you down for that common sense post. Beyond comprehension.

Flaws aside a fantastic feat of manufacturing