F-35 Lightning stealth fighters have embarked on HMS Prince of Wales as the carrier prepares to join NATO allies on its biggest exercise in decades.
For the first time, the 65,000-tonne ship will host UK Carrier Strike Group battlestaff as she takes a central role in Exercise Steadfast Defender.
A number of @thef35 Lightning stealth fighters have embarked on @HMSPWLS as the carrier prepares to join @NATO allies on its biggest exercise in decades. #SteadfastDefender2024 pic.twitter.com/8FxgTC4GUZ
— UK Defence Journal (@UKDefJournal) February 20, 2024
According to a Royal Navy statement:
“The F-35 fighter jets of joint RAF and Royal Navy 617 Squadron, ‘the Dambusters’ landed on the aircraft carrier while she was sailing in the North Sea after leaving their home base of RAF Marham, in Norfolk. The jets comprise just one element of the powerful UK Carrier Strike Group which also includes 11 helicopters deployed across the group, Royal Navy escort ships and support vessels from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary including frigate HMS Portland and tanker RFA Tidesurge.
It will lead an international task force taking part in Steadfast Defender – an exercise across multiple regions and domains from land and sea to air and space. Spanning several months and thousands of kilometres, it will see tens of thousands of personnel work together to showcase NATO’s ability to deter enemies and defend allied territory.”
Captain Colin McGannity, Carrier Air Wing and Strike Warfare Commander (better known as ‘CAG’), watched the F-35s landing. He said:
“It is always an exciting moment when F-35B Lightning join the Carrier Strike Group at sea. These fifth-generation aircraft are the main strike element of the group. Once again, we will be integrating them and the rest of the Carrier Air Wing with our NATO Allies and partners. There’s plenty of work ahead of us but I have every confidence that our talented and dedicated team will succeed. It’s winter in the North Atlantic and we will face harsh weather and freezing conditions, but we are well prepared and looking forward to demonstrating our readiness to fight, whenever and wherever we get the call.”
HMS Prince of Wales, which was deployed at short notice to replace HMS Queen Elizabeth, spent much of autumn last year working with F-35 jets off the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. However, Exercise Steadfast Defender will see the ship embark more jets than they ever have before.
Commander Martin Russell, Commander Air (also known as “Wings”) of HMS Prince of Wales has been preparing for the arrival of the aircraft. He was quoted as saying:
“I’m really excited to see the F-35B jets of 617 Squadon embark in HMS Prince of Wales, the first time we have seen this squadron onboard, and the most F-35B jets we have operated at one time. My team are keen to practise what they learnt about jets during our time on Westlant 23 last year. It’s the jets that really make us an aircraft carrier and bring the flight deck to life.”
HMS Prince of Wales and her escort ships will be operating in the North Atlantic, where temperatures are expected to drop below -10C and winds to reach upwards of 40kts – providing a real test of equipment and personnel.
So, 18? “A fighter squadron consists of 18 aircraft; all fighter squadrons are headed by a commanding officer with the rank of wing commander. Some transport squadrons and helicopter units are headed by a commanding officer with the rank of group captain.” Program Milestones 2012: UK’s first F-35 delivered from Fort Worth, TX 2014: F-35 pilot completes first UK vertical landing 2016: F-35 makes Europe/UK debut at RIAT & Farnborough 2018: F-35s arrive for permanent basing at RAF Marham 2018: UK completes weapons flight testing 2018: UK MoD declares F-35 land IOC 2018: First of Class Flight Trials on HMS… Read more »
We should be so lucky , more like six – eight at a push.
It did sound rather odd not to say exactly how many UK F-35s in the article but state how many Helicopters I must admit.
I wonder why? USMC to make up the numbers perhaps?
I hope the US do land a dozen more on her, It would at least take her to the same level as QE…. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
No..617 Sqd. has eight F35’s and remains the only operational squadron ( bar the OCU) and will be so for at least another year or two.
Cheers Geoff, It could very well be eight then.
I wish it were more. Time (?) will tell😉
No argument from me Andy. Couldn’t agree with you more. The other annoying factor is constantly being told that there is no rush. I wonder whether a lot of people have noticed the Ukraine or what’s going on with the Iranians and the Chinese.
Navy Lookout says 8 and has a video
Yes, I read two weeks back a particular article that suggested there would be around 20 aircraft including 8 F35’s. Not too many countries could do or ever have this capability, more aircraft and possible drones in the future. Great to see.. Impressive. Also have to say.. Super effort by the crew and other supporting personnel, who helped to make the Carrier deployable in a period of just 8 day’s.
Agreed – Bravo Zulu to all concerned .
Indeed well done 617 in getting 8 a/c out to POW. That squadron is being pulled in all directions.
Is this still the case?
Stealth Mode: 2 Amraam 2 Asraam, 2 Paveway IV
Wing Pylons (Non Stealth Mode) 4 Paveway IV
I’m guessing it’ll be just the 8 UK planes again…. It’s enough to not be deemed too few and just enough to hush those of us who moan !!!! 😎 Personally, I like to see a busy deck, whatever the Aircraft…..
Still, plenty for us to look forward to come the 2030s
Meteor, Spear 3 and upgraded engines. 👍🇬🇧
What’s the timeline for Typhoon ECRS Mk2 again? 🤔
What did Manuel of Fawlty Towers use to say, I know nothing 😂 IOC? FOC? providing there are no further delays that is. January 25, 2024 “Development of an upgraded software capability for the F-35 fighter aircraft is maturing but more slowly than expected and while Lockheed Martin is still aiming to deliver the third Technology Refresh (TR-3) by June, it is more likely customer acceptance will slip into the third quarter of this year, Jim Taiclet, the company’s chairman, president and CEO, said on Tuesday. “As we have said before, there continues to be risk in TR-3 deliveries due… Read more »
On a positive note it’s good to see the Horizon software designers have managed to gain new employment.
Who with?
The U.S. military sees planned engine upgrades for all the variants of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter as critical because the Pratt & Whitney F135 engines that power all of the aircraft have been “under spec since the beginning,” according to the top officer in charge of the program.30 Mar 2023
What is the state of play with the upgraded engine for the B variant.
I seem to recall reading the A & C engines were going to be upgraded but the B used a different engine which therefore wasn’t involbed in the same upgrade path.
Is that correct or have I merely mis-remembered all of that…
This is what I’ve heard. Fingers crossed they meet with the proposed timeline for the upgrades. I wonder where we sit in the queue for the engine upgrade and weapons fit? FOC when? November 29, 2023 Pentagon to give Pratt & Whitney sole-source F-35 engine upgrade work “Expect the preliminary design for the F-35’s engine upgrade within weeks and the finished product by 2029, Pratt & Whitney said as the Pentagon declared its intention to make the company the sole provider of fixes for the jets’ overheating engine. The announcement, while expected, was nevertheless a blow to GE Aerospace,… Read more »
See my reply to Grizzler above.
Tick, never happier 👌👍🙃
POW would struggle to maintain combat air patrols with just 8. with ‘0’ strike capability.
It’s an Exorcise, 8 is all we’ve managed in the 7 years of service but 8 plus the USMC will be a good test of POW and her crew….. Personally I think it’s a bit pant’s that we can’t embark a full load as Designed, bought and paid for but i’m fed up with saying it on every other thread here now so I’ve resigned myself to feeling slightly more comfy with the 8….. Hopefully Sir Kylie Stammer will re-employ Diane Abbott and get her to order the next batch of 48,000…. 😎
😂
I DONT get obsession of middle aged British men with Diane Abbott ❓🤐
Oh well, never mind….. One day when you grow up, you might just get why so many of us old folk viewed virtually everything she ever said and got so comically wrong with such obsessive behavior ….. one day my friend, one day…..🙄
It’s the Maths or if your American the Math she’s in a class of her own ( in the corner with a dunces hat )
I was going too enlighten you with a wildlife emoji but I don’t want a knock on the door from the PC brigade But I do believe who ever voted for them should be banned from having children
Yes it is an exercise, the purpose of which is to train and prepare for a real event. To do that you need to commit all the resources you actually have available and put your people through their paces under pressure to ensure they can cope and learn from your successes and failures. Just putting 8 jets aboard because it’s convenient at present makes a mockery of the whole concept. The flightdeck of an aircraft carrier is one of the most dangerous places in the world, and your people need to be able to conduct high rates of operations safely,… Read more »
Which I agree with…. too, but 8 it is and we have to accept that.
Hopefully the USMC will embark on her as well…. It’s all valuable training.
On the trip to India, there is hope we will have 24 on board and I think it would be a perfect time to add 12 American F35’s to get the full compliment….
I believe they are planning a max effort for the 2025 deployment…the problem is that we don’t have the mass to do a max effort in 2024 and then regenerate for another max effort in 2025…which is why we really need 4 squadrons of 35b so we can do a max effort each year without degrading force availability.
Morning Frank. Exorcise? Diane Abbot..??😆
Yes, She has to do a one yard Marathon followed by 84 million Press Ups and ten years in the Sauna… It only takes her 1 hour out of her 64 minute day.
I too would like to see 30+ very expensive 5th Gen fighters sitting on deck in -10 degree temperatures with 40 knot winds for a training exercise. Would be really good to know how long those stealth coating will last in the North Atlantic Ocean and subject our entire fleet to those conditions just to find out.
But if 8 is enough for the training mission then 8 is what should be onboard.
On the flip side, It would also be more comforting to see the full load that she was designed to carry as and when required…… so far after 7 years of service, we are a hell of a way short of achieving anywhere near this figure/capability….. Apparently a max of 30 is all that can be achieved ATM….. lets not forget that these were also going to replace the Tornado’s as well, of which 385 were built,not to mention the Harriers……
Indeed we really do need 4 squadrons of f35b. That would allow regular yearly exercises with 2 squadrons and the odd deployment of 3 to practice max deployments. It’s would also mean in wartime the carrier could have its full 3 squadrons and the RAF could have a land based squadron…if we also happened to have the second carrier at readiness we could generate a second air wing at true max effort.
Amen bro’
I take it that although only 8 planes POW has embarked all pilots from FAA Squadrons as well as RAF so more pilots get too take part in this e exercise not just 8 pilots
Another post. Confirming you know sod all.
Ha… I know Sod All too…… but it’s still nice to learn from those who do…….
We ‘little people’ do need to be educated don’tcha know old boy.
Every day is indeed, a school day !
But you have character. Unlike Mr Collins. 😆
But Mr Collins has a Dictionary named after him….. All I got is a bit part in “Some mothers do have them”…. (Frank Spencer) 😂
😆
I’m just part of an experiment if I don’t put a post into UKDJ thread I get an electric shock well that’s what I’ve been told by my handler Frank
Do tell, AC or DC…right nut or left nut..details man we want details….Also that would mean they have a control…do they just get shocked every day whatever…🤔🤔🤔
Can’t say Johnathan at this present time Mr milgram has his finger on the buzzzzzzzzzzzer ouch 😀
How do you get to 18 ? Does 617 Squadron have 18 F35B that it can deploy onboard ?
More like 8 or 10 !
“Does 617 Squadron have 18 F35B that it can deploy onboard?”
That’s a very good question, Flagship for Opt Steadfast Defender, so no doubt we will make every F-35B available in order to put on a good show. 👍🇬🇧⚓
Putting on a good show? Is that how you think these exercises work? Massive fail again Nigel.
But where do you get 18 from as a number to suggest ? I’m just wondering how you get to that number 🤔
My first post on here at the top of this thread.
“A fighter squadron consists of 18 aircraft; all fighter squadrons are headed by a commanding officer with the rank of wing commander. Some transport squadrons and helicopter units are headed by a commanding officer with the rank of group captain.”
Yeh Nigel I know it can be confusing, when branch, Corp, unit assignations aren’t applied. So here’s a hand, RN_Royal Navy, RM _Royal Marines, Army(British military Regiments) RAF_Royal Air Force, RFA_Royal Fleet Auxiliary,…. USMC_United States Marine Corp, etc. These are normally applied after the Officers name and rank, ie, Commander Name RN. Only a few selections, but you get the jist. Glad to help. 👍😶
Cheers!
Well squadrons are different sizes to be honest..there is no recognised this is the number of aircraft in a squadron.
It will be interesting to see what the final tally is and what other countries, if any, will be onboard with their F-35Bs.
I believe the focus of numbers will be very much around the CBG 2025..I would imagine they will keep the numbers low as this is in really a ship which is working up…it was amazing the fact they got this ship off the wall so quickly…but it’s going to need time to work the crew up…and in that I would imaging at the beginning less is more. I have heard they have all the squadrons pilots on board…which will mean the whole squadron get to practice… Also as it’s going into the high north I would imaging they don’t want… Read more »
Pilot training and ground crew training is also something that needs to have a grip as ell.
Slightly off Topic but, the Spanish Ship Patino has just docked next to QE…. A 14 Patino is a Military Ops Ship, apparently….. looks not too dissimilar to a Fort from a distance….
She is an old Replenishment Tanker and nearly 30 years old so same vintage. But she can’t be anything like Fort Victoria as she actually works.
Cheers frank & ABC Rodney, that clears up that one from earlier on Tuesday when I checked the Warrior cam out.
Did you also spot the T45 being moved ? I reckon it’s HMS Daring, She’s now alongside the Jetty….. You can see her quite clearly and another to the Right, which might be Defender ?
I noticed that one had shifted near the North end of the base, looking like one either coming in for dock work or leaving it. But I just had one fairly quick visit to the cam before getting on being occupied with other things the rest of the day.
Hi Andy. No, not at all. The cam is on a timer & rotates every c20 secs to a different view. The ones showing HMNB are just after the two of the Gosport side with all the yacht marina masts. If you’re in a hurry you can just slide the cursor at the bottom of the screen to a view of the dockside where the QEs are berthed, when in port. Takes a bit of practice & I often just notice something interesting just as the view changes away! But you can pause the coverage too. Don’t knock the ropes(HMS… Read more »
Maayybe, the Italians will cross deck?? 😳
Apparently they only have the 5 F35b’s but oh how I would love to see a few “Matadors” ….. failing that, a few USMC AV8B’s……. Maybe “call me Dave” Cameron could be Bat Man…… Hopefully their might just be a missile malfunction that resulted in a direct hit up his “jet pipe”……
They still have Harriers
Plus “the 5 F35’s”……
Garibaldi is only operating helicopters. Here is a good quality video in Portsmouth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjhfEssE3FA
Interestingly they still have torpedo tubes.
To be fair mate, She was “pressed” into service and had to take on Weapons in the “Clyde”…. ( Actually Glenmallan is in Loch Long but I read on here it had moved 😉!)
That post is not only a completely wrong you actually contradict yourself ! So the US do actually leave port without any on board and then join once at sea like us and most other operator’s do 🤔 In fact most don’t even embark Helicopters in port unless they need to. FYI There are reasons why Aircraft don’t take off or Land when in Port it’s called Safety, it’s the most dangerous operation any aircraft routinely does. Its also the reason the escorts don’t get form up too close these days when conducting flight operations. Sometimes accidents do happen and… Read more »
Good point
America carrier aircraft can’t land in port because the ship has to be moving at 30knots.
This is generally not considered a good idea in a port 😀
Harriers and F35B can be embarked in port and often are. It’s another major advantage.
😂
When has this been done?
An F35B flew off a carrier in Pompey, once, when it has unserviceable when other aircraft left before berthing.
Yes it has been done before but very very rarely and in that particular case they really didn’t have any sensible option ! They are way to big to crane off and truck through the streets on Pompey.
God can you imagine the press headlines. 🥴
I was not aware Harriers had been landed on or launched in Pompey, everyday is a school day.
F35s have not landed on in port.
As stated a single F35 was launched once following a complex safety assessment.
They will normally embark and disembark at sea.
The original statement that ‘Harriers and F35B can be embarked in port and often are’ was incorrect.
👍
Shouldn’t the ships be underway when aircraft take off or land? When researching the Sunliners and Black Aces on Nimitz or Carl Vinson they regularly mentioned how they flew on or off to or from their home base. Do some stay aboard?
Generally speaking Spyinthesky, you’re correct. There does need to be a flow of wind over the flight deck to cause lift with the aircraft wing (modern airframes are heavy). Unserviceable aircraft(“Christmas trees, spares) can be craned to shore alongside. (Carolina’s a hoofing great Naval base) it’s unnerving seeing a fighter in your rear view mirror. VStol aircraft are the only I’ve witnessed operating in harbour. 👍
The Sunliners used to be based at NAS Oceana, Not sure if that has changed or not but it is metaphorically just around the corner from Norfolk Naval Station. As to the rest I believe you are correct. When a ship is embarking their air wing it is a carefully choreographed ballet to get everything on or below decks such that aircraft can still land and take off. As such it is much safer to do this with 25+ knots of wind over the deck. Generally this sort of thing only happens at the start and end of a deployment… Read more »
Not even enough airframes to protect itself.
Against what …the Russian navel air strike capability is not great and profoundly old..it would be cut apart by a flight of 5th generation aircraft.
You assume the enemy will be a Russian belly button force. I think we need to think on a wider and more dynamic possible battlefield and foe. Never assume that greater technology will win the battle. For instance the key aircraft in the Falklands war were Argentinas obsolete Neptune’s. Acting as Command and control. In the Gulf we see the Houthis tying down a naval force bristling with technology, with old kit supplied by Iran. In Afghanistan if we are brutally honest, firstly the Russians then the UK and US got their respective backsides handed to them by a force… Read more »
But what difference would more airframes make against asymmetrical threat…the fifth generation jets role is one of taking on peer enemies…so what threat can one squadron of f35s not deal with that would need 2 squadrons to deal with it…your statement was that it did not have enough airframes to defend Itself not that there were other asymmetrical threats….
Okay if you accept the principle you need a CAP that is you baseline. Given no Squadron has achieved higher than above 55% availability of airframes for the F35. If your shipboard complement is 8 that gives you 5 available for tasking. Launch two for CAP bring two more to readiness probably Alert 3 or 4 depending on tactical situation. That leaves you one available for tasking. Move on and rotate your CAP launch your second pair and recover the first. Bearing in mind the two jets that are recovered the moment they hit the deck are automatically deemed unserviceable… Read more »
Hi royal the USN does not us a constant CAP. It modifies its sorties depending on: 1) risk, 2) strike/mission requirements, 3) qualification requirements. At present a U.S. carrier air wing consists of the following strike fighters: 1) 3 squadrons of 10 to 12 f18 2) 1 squadron of 10 f35C and two squadrons of 10 to 12 f18. so a U.S. carrier has a total of 30-36 strike aircraft. the simple fact is we are regenerating our carrier air wing and this is an exercise so 8 is fine….the 2025 will see two squadrons of F35Bs so around 24… Read more »
At no point did I ever say US carriers fly a constant CAP. The limitation is deck crew fatigue. The deck of a US carrier is the most intense, dangerous place I have ever seen. It is also poetry in motion. A CAP is only flown if there is a perceived threat. On occasions only a Hawkeye will be up. The deck crews can then relax. Now to CVW. The Ford deployed with CVW 8. The teeth of which were. VFA 37, VFA87, VFA31, VFA 213, VAQ142. All Hornets. All Squadrons deployed 12 airframes bar one which deployed 14. IKE… Read more »
The USN is now dropping down to 3 VFA squadrons for its air wings from 4 …the VAQ squadron’s are not strike squadrons and are equipped with growlers for EW and have self protection only ( a pair of AA missiles ). The final strike wing configuration for all US carriers will be 2 F18 squadrons and 1 F35C squadrons.
My current format of the CVW is correct one F35C squadron not two as you first touted. The reduction in VFA numbers was touted but is not being pursued by the Navy. The Growlers are mission capable in all roles but routinely fly with air to air and anti radar munitions. They never fly interdiction. The same as USMC fly the F35B with air to air self protection. They don’t fly interdiction. Yet we intend to. The only changes imminent and by that I mean next three years that navy are pursuing are Stingrays, Osprey, Hawkeye to 5 from 4.… Read more »
The next two CVW to deploy and this is a punt on my behalf. Are 7 and 9 with predominantly F18.
From memory 9 has a squadron of 35C. It is a VFMA squadron.
When did I say 2 squadrons of f35C I never said that ?
I believe the current US Navy plan for deploying the F35 is one Squadron per CVW with 14 not ten aircraft. They will be a mix if USMC and Navy. All the C variant. That was the last evidence they gave to Congress.It would also appear to be the case with current deployments. Can you reveal your source of two squadrons of ten.
I don’t believe the USN have got to the 14 tails as yet..it was a stated ambition as they moved to a 3 squadron strike wing from 4 squadrons ( the original plan was a strike wing of 2 squadrons of 10 F35C and 2 squadrons of f18, but they are now only having three squadrons total) and I know the USMC is clear it’s going to 10 tails for all its f35 squadrons..so I’m not sure how that will work when a USMC squadron is part of a strike wing…the USN and USMC is having as much problem getting… Read more »
As of today all Air wings have five squadrons and the next two to deploy to Asia will have the same. The wing to replace IKEA is at an advanced stage of preparedness with five. The ultimate navy aim is 16 per 35 squadron 14 in the medium term 10 for now. As for the USMC they are obligated to provide 4 35C squadrons for air wings. USMC and USN each will have more 35C squadrons than is needed to provide for carrier air wings. The talk is of 35C squadrons not being constant fixtures to any airwing and deploying… Read more »
But they were profoundly limited and would simply have no hope against a 5 generation aircraft…even an f18 which is a vastly better fixed wing strike jet than a harrier has little to no hope against an f35.
Yeah but it was encouraging to see the jets arrived fully bombed up with ASRAAM at least and we don’t know if they had anything inside the bays ..,
“A number”. 6. 8. 10++??
The Americans take about 6 months to work up a carrier air wing before deployment, is that what you’re asking for? and they rarely cross the oceans from US bases with a full set of escorts , they meet most of them in forward deployed fleets like 7th and 5th. Being able to deploy a carrier in 8 days and have the air wing fly out to meet the ship is exactly what the CVF concept was all about. Being able to have every RAF pilot flying an F35 able to operate on and off a Queen Elizabeth as well… Read more »
Indeed..most people miss the difference in qualification..US carriers have to have a full deck..they need constant flying ops to maintain the carrier qualifications of their air wing….an F35B carrier does not need such an extensive and costly set of flying ops to maintain carrier qualification..it’s not quite fly on and play..but it’s far far less intensive that a CATOBAR air wing.
I think you have not quite got the operating of a US carrier right. There is no requirement to have a full deck as you say. It is there operating model however to deploy with a full carrier wing. Normally at the moment they are operating 5 F18. One squadron is designated as cap, one as EW. Leaving three for tasking. Then of course there are SAR COD AEW and the like. Even US carriers have a limited time that they can sustain flight deck operations. Especially at high volume launches and recovery. There peak hours in Afghan and Gulf… Read more »
Don’t worry, the Norwegian F35’s will provide CAP 😂
So how many f35s will PoW be carrying , is she going to have 36 for example to really put her through her paces
This exercise, 8 again. Next year is supposed to be 24, so we might see a build up exercise towards the end of the year with a number between 8 and 24. As much as I’d love to see 36, it’s not going to happen before 2027 at the abosulte earliest, and they won’t all be British if it does happen.
This exercise, 8 again (although I suppose it’s not again for HMS Prince of Wales). Next year is supposed to be 24, so we might see a build up exercise towards the end of the year with a number between 8 and 24. As much as I’d love to see 36, it’s not going to happen before 2027 at the earliest, and they won’t all be British if it does happen.
Italian marines invade Britain from amphibious ship!! 😀
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPNcFDMH7cU
Great that she is taking jets on-board.
I struggled to learn SOPs moving from the SLR to the SMEG… I actually wanted an SLR in the RMP, Browning High Powers were equally as shoite as the SMEGs.
Imagine having 8 F35Bs on board!; good luck, safe seas and no dramas.
(And please check all the F35B coverings!).
We now seem to be in a position of more Squadron Leaders in the RAF (200) than active frontline aircraft (not 200 afaics).
And more great news…… The Trident Missile test ended in Failure for a second time in a row…… HMS Vanguard launched a missile that failed and landed nearby……. apparently.
Let’s hope that the numerous snagt to where is have been sorted! So far, Both have been dogged with a few major issues. As ex- R.N. matelot I am hoping that we can reestablish our Navy .