Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has revealed that the Ministry of Defence is investing in the BAE shipyard in Govan, Glasgow in order to increase its capacity and productivity for future work.

The information came to light during a recent evidence-gathering session held by the Defence Committee.

Dave Doogan MP asked:

“I just have two very quick points, Secretary of State. One is on a point that you were making just a second about the productivity that you see exhibited in foreign yards. Babcock producing 31 at £250 million a unit for the floating moving vessel, ex of GFE, is an extraordinary price. Is it your understanding that is being achieved because of the investments that it has made in Rosyth and the world-leading advanced manufacturing facility that it has there?

I hear what you are saying about capacity. Are you aware fully of BAE’s exceptional ambition for the build hall at Govan and the effect that will have on its available capacity?”

Ben Wallace responded:

“Going back to my point about Rosyth and the Clyde, the Babcock leadership came along, invested in the build hall, got on with it and said, “If we can build these ships inside, we can increase our productivity. We do not have to stop when it is bad weather and everything else”. BAE, which is now doing it, first of all wanted us to pay for it. To my point about getting the management to invest in the yards, it is in their interest, as much as it is in the customer’s. I am delighted that BAE is going to put a covered build hall in place. We will be contributing to it as the MoD and the customer, but that is the sort of thing that is about the cultural shift and investing in the yard, so that when, whatever happens one day—there is not a naval contract or it wins another contract to build a civil ship—it can show that productivity.

When I went to Pendennis yard recently down in Falmouth, it was awarded a regional development grant, which it immediately spent on a new lift. In doing so, it probably saved itself a lot of money and cut production by six weeks. Because it is an entirely private yard, it knew that its superyacht customers, who are basically its customers, will go somewhere else at the drop of a hat if you do not deliver on time. There is a really pressing demand.

Investing in the yard and its capital really can make a difference. Some companies are up for that, some have to be prompted and some do not do it at all. As an enterprise, we have to really be quite direct about it.”

What’s the plan?

I recently reported that the wet basin at Govan will be drained and a covered build hall will be constructed on the site, allowing for later Type 26 frigates to be built indoors.

Here’s a video of how it might look, at least according to my terrible design skills.

After construction, according to the person I spoke to, ships will be moved onto a barge and lowered into the water.

It is hoped that Type 26 ships 4 to 8 will be built in this facility, with the first three being put together outdoors. HMS Glasgow is in build now and is shown below, she is being put together on the hard standing, adjacent to the wet basin area after she was built in sections in the existing build hall and joined together.

BAE to construct new shipbuilding facility in Glasgow

You can read more about the plans by clicking here.

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 month ago

Some on here have rightly said that the government should invest in industry, looks like they are getting their wish. Which makes a very pleasant change…

Cheers CR

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Even a broke clock is right 2x a day? 😀

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Collaborative enabling investment.

BAE are paying for most of this. First time round BAE had their begging bowl out and MOD said NO.

This time round MOD is paying a bit but BAE is being forced into doing this by Babcock and the fact that the working conditions are a joke in this day and age.

It is all about productivity.

Babcock have set a high bar and BAE are having to up their game an awful lot.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago

It’s strange that once we had a second warship producer BAE magically decided to invest in its own buildings.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

🤔🤔

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Not so strange. Government for once challenging a monopoly and deploying market forces ax the weapon. One of the great problems with UK PLC us the endless ‘it is a small market’ you hear from MBAs. This leads to allowing over consolidation and precisely this issue. The fantasy wax that ‘because we were in EU’ or ‘globalisation will sort it’ that was OK. Monopolistic behaviour is the product of a bald in smoke filled rooms but of poor/lazy thinking that is not subject to commercial pressures to do better. Hopefully, this is a case in point of things working in… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago

Lazy thinking has been the hallmark of HMG for some time, in fairness it often works out well having a laissez faire economic policy however allowing a single defence contractor who’s only revenue is government based and has its snout in the same trough as Boeing, Lockheed and Northrop was a mistake. Cost + contracts have destroyed American defence procurement and threaten to do the same to the UK. If you can’t have basic competition then it’s better to nationalise.

Expat
Expat
1 month ago

I read it a bit differently Ben is saying MoD are the yards customer so they are paying for it indirectly as they placed a order for T26s. So reinvested profits from the contract not new money. That’s my interpretation:)

Either way it’s about time.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Yes having two ship builders of complex warships for the RN does make the market work a bit better. Having a monopoly and a private company just does not work. You either nationalise or creat competition.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Have Zi read it wrong it seemed to say Go t are happy to contribute and facilitate but as Babcock have shown it is good for the builder to actually understand that investing is to their own benefit especially in terms of efficiency and cost of product a lesson to British Industry that we should have learned in the 60s instead of whinging and expecting Govt to take all the risk and supply the investment. I wonder if Bae in the US behaves in a similar fashion to its parent here in that regard, I very much doubt it tbh.… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Pretty much.

BAE were taking the Mickey as

– UK would only build warships in UK
– they were the only warship builder in the UK
– UK warships were crazy expensive
– zero exports until T31 and T26 came along…..
– the statements that some of the BAE executives came out with from time to time were crazy, crazy, in retrospect – ‘is it worth building RN warships in such tiny numbers’……remember that?

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

its also good that both companies are building large hulls as that adds to the competition. One more benefit of going large on the T31 hull, I suspect BAE would have been more relaxed if the T31 had ended up a 3000-4000t hull.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Yeh, UK industry got out of the habit of investing during WW2 and the post war rush for rebuild. They got to the 1960’s and found they were so far out of date with insufficient cash in bank that they could catch up. Come the oil crisis’ of the 70 and 80’s and, well… good bye UK industry. Obviously there was more to it than that, but it certainly didn’t help. Trouble is UK industry is still trying to work out how to invest. BAE System USA will have local managment teams because of the national security rules, so a… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

The U.K. ship building industry was a sad tale of money now over sustainability….a mixture of greed and hubris.

the_marquis
the_marquis
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

It didnt help that govt allowed too much consolidation in industry as well, eg Austin and Morris merging pretty much meant there was no internal competition, so when we joined the EEC BL fell fast! Aviation was another sector where govt encouraged too much consolidation too quickly in my opinion – obviously we werent going to support the dozens of companies that existed in the late 40s, but it would’ve been good to have a mix of a few larger companies and a second tier of firms that could work as independent suppliers to the big firms, being independent and… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Do feel that, in many instances, trying to encourage British management into investing in their own business’ future is akin to kicking a dead horse. Industrial Revolution it is not.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 month ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Yup, couldn’t agree more. UK management is often very risk adverse or perhaps they are just too focused on their bonus’s..!

Cheers CR

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Unfortunately it’s all about short term profit over long term growth and sustainability. It’s actually the fault of the financial system as short term share price and dividend payments are everything and business leaders are only interested in the viability until their stock options come up and they are free to offload on the market.

StevenW
StevenW
1 month ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

I think I am right in saying that on average when a UK industrial company is taken over by a foreign one after five years it’s productivity and it’s employment numbers are both higher than before the takeover – and have risen faster than UK owned equivalents. When the UK sells its industrial assets its economy improves. A sad indictment of British management.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 month ago
Reply to  StevenW

Reading the Times over the weekend I noticed the same requirement from Industry over their poised desire to start investing. Sure in many instances this is true, but the proviso, which at first reading sounds logical, is always the same. What the captains of industry need most is political certainty. Then you consider; we live in a democracy, as do others, where one of it’s ‘weaknesses’, compared to authoritarianism? is perhaps a ‘certain lack of certainty’ in this regard. Something that has been true of some few hundred years overall. You can argue various pros and cons on this front… Read more »

the_marquis
the_marquis
1 month ago
Reply to  StevenW

I think this is because the economy is based around the City, who make money buying into UK firms, selling them to foreign firms, and making additional money on providing the financial services to the foreign firms necessary for them to buy the company (loans, auditing, banking services, legal etc).

Then it’s rinse-repeat, no sense in a long term view in growing the company when they are going to spin it off in a few years.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

For me this is the biggie from todays articles. If we want a bigger navy whether in numbers or tonnage we need more shipbuilding capacity. If we want to reduce bottom line costs of our warships we need to export them. Which means more shipbuilding capacity even if mostly in subsystems. We’ve got a plan and the pieces are starting to be put in place. Whatever the political future brings we need to follow through on this.

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Somebody help me here, because the way i read the above, he is complaining about the cost. A bloke I should add who asks stupid questions which he as an MP could simply get the answer by contacting the relevent department directly. Questions I should which no doubt take somebody in Parliment out of way in which to find the answer.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

Surely he is asking if the competitive cost of the T31 is due to Babcocks investment in the new build sheds. Clearly a reference to the comparative high costs at Bae at present. Reasonable question even if in reality the two programs aren’t directly comparable as we know but certainly we should have answers in the round on the matter and perhaps some idea of the potential savings in cost, time and quality Bae’s new sheds will offer. Gives an opportunity to cost and judge future programmes costs surely especially as we know Bae has been known to take liberties.

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Slightly off topic , but remaining in Govan just read this story: PROTESTERS have begun occupying an arms factory in Glasgow amid anger over what they claim is the company’s involvement in drones used in the surveillance of Palestine’s people. It is the second time that Palestine Action Scotland has targeted the Thales factory in Govan – which has been evacuated since the activists entered the building and began to cause damage. The premises have been evacuated, as reports indicate the factory is not able to continue operating as usual. According to Palestine Action Scotland, the protesters climbed onto roof… Read more »

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

Facts don’t matter with those kinds of people. Like the girl who glued herself to the Haywain, damaging it, because oil bad, but didn’t feel bad about wracking up 50,000 air miles on holidays to Bali before that.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

What because Constable used Oil paints?

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

The cynic in me suspects that a) she knew it would get her in the headlines, and b) she’s a lefty nutter who probably thought destroying our cultural heritage was a good thing.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

We always had people brought in who had glued themselves to stuff. It’s generally a really selfish and self centred act as the poor fire service have to cut around whatever they are glued to and bring them into ED, we were always getting people in attached to a few feet of railings…..They did not generally feel so big and mighty after spending hours and hours in ED with their hands in bucket fulls of pipping hot water……

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

Great! Exactly what the country needs, a ‘Mini-me’ of Emma Thompson.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

Thx for Ella orating I was thinking why would Elbit use British built versions of their own original drone. Clearly these people are simply racist towards any Israeli organisation or input as the left is these days and anti arms generally clearly believing that if we simply wave a white flag like the priest in War of the Worlds the aliens will be nice to us instead of being zapped like that priest. Optimistic I suspect.

PaulW
PaulW
1 month ago

Correct if I’m wrong, but given the very real threat posed by Scotland‘s indyref2, 3, 4, …N, shouldn’t MOD be concentrating resources south of the border?

WSM
WSM
1 month ago
Reply to  PaulW

Yes Paul but if you cast your mind back to the time of the previous referendum you’ll recall the government leaning on BAe to shut down ship building in Pompey and move it lock stock and barrel north of the border as a sop – they’re obviously hoping that similar financial based incentives will win over the electorate once again (very risky game to play though !)

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  WSM

If English yards could build warships they would be doing so, The MOD ran all its tenders competitively while it could and BAE decided to focus building in Glasgow not the MOD, Babcock took the same decision with Rosyth, English surface yards shut down primarily due to high cost and bad quality (swan hunter) You need to just get over that as stop making s**t up like the government forcing BAE to shut down Portsmouth, can you show me one thing to back that up or is it just the usual hate speech.

Val
Val
29 days ago
Reply to  Martin

It was not VT’s vision in Pompey to just build warships, when it became BUT then BAE, that was the end. There were interests to buy or use the VT’s facility, instead BAE are still connected to the facility, but ripping out the steel working facilities also meant no competition. Shipping just a bow block and radar mast from one end of the Country to the other with the costs and engineering and climate differences was a big ask and BAE coupled with management from Glasgow needing accommodation to live in Pompey etc. I would like to know about the… Read more »

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  PaulW

Definitely should find work for CL and H&W but it’s catch 22, if you don’t invest in Scotland then they’ll definitely leave.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Dern

There is no referendum happening. As much as the SNP bang on about it. Without U.K. governments approval it ain’t happening. Hopefully the governments have learned how terrible an idea it is to use 1 question to cover a topic that means so many things.
The SNP have got big head syndrome. I don’t think more people want independence than last time. If I was in U.K. parliament I would set any future referendums have to have 90% participation and 65% agreement to make a change.

Ian McIntyre
Ian McIntyre
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I think the days of Westminster, the de facto. English parliament overuling devolution and ignoring the mandate of the elected officials is coming to an end. You cannot tell one party in a treaty it is an equal partner then deny them the right to proceed with its mandate. I don’t remember Westminster asking permission from the EU when it wanted to hold a referendum on leaving. The supreme Court, should it rule against the Scottish government, will blow out of the water the notion of equal partners. After removing that route to self determination using the next General election… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian McIntyre

I didn’t think they were equal partners. Westminster does the international, defence, trade stuff and local governments does the local issues, health, regional transport etc.
In my eyes Westminster has always been more important.
If they are meant to be seen as equal partners that does change the view a bit

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian McIntyre

Deluded 😆

The SNP has as much chance of forcing independence as Catalonia did…

As for the EU, they’d [email protected] Scotland over. Its economy wouldn’t meet criteria for membership, Scots would have to abandon the £ for the €, and they’d probably still have member nations vetoing its membership because they’d be afraid it would encourage independence movements in their own countries.

Scotland would be outside the U.K., the EU, NATO, and would rapidly resemble North Korea as jobs moved South of the hard-border with England.

Ian McIntyre
Ian McIntyre
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

The same old tired cliches used as facts. You mention the Scottish economy, at any given time 3 years worth of whisky is in bonded warehouses, using the current tax rates it has a value of £36 billion. When the chancellor wanted some extra cash he hit the North Sea, raised £5. 90% of the regions output is in Scottish waters, there are many more exams out there. renewable energy for one. Check how much electricity flows south over the border. The old EU veto routine, no country has ever said they would veto Scotland after a democratic vote. By… Read more »

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian McIntyre

Same old stupidity from the Scottish Nazi Party, why let facts spoil your narrative? 🤷🏻‍♂️ So Scotland’s lifeline is selling whiskey… 😂 Seriously if that is the SNPs basis for fiscal stability then you’re even more detached from reality that I thought. Until it’s sold, that whiskey only has asset value, it has zero profit and zero revenue. And that is only £12 billion a year, or trillions of whatever Mickey Mouse currency you’d have to invent to replace the £… Pretty sure the Chancellor raised more than “£5” from North Sea oil – you’re definitely not good with figures… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian McIntyre

You do actually realise that Catalonia as a nation is around 50 years older than Scotland. Catalonia also contains the 5th most populous city in the EU, has a population of near 8 million and a GDP of $350 billion Compared to Scotland’s $212 billion. Catalonia also has it’s own language, to even suggest Catalonia should not be treated the same way as Scotland is laughable. I don’t have an issue with the Scottish independent party campaigning for independent but I think they are actually actively lying around key element of their reasons why they are doing this. The reality… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian McIntyre

No one other than Nicola sturgeons has tried to make the argument that Holyrood and Westminster are equals and this is what people voted on and accepted in 2014. That being said Westminster politics is a disaster but it’s the rest of the UK primarily the north of England that suffers. Putting an English parliament in York and making London and the south east a federal territory would solve most of the problems.

A labour government in London and Edinburgh will also ease the tensions this is the main reason sturgeon is threatened.

Mark Forsyth
Mark Forsyth
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

It was the Labour Govt under Blair that brought in devolution, as they wanted to ensure that when in Govt at Westminster, they always had the Red support from Scotland and Wales under the devolved system, and when the Tories were in power in Westminster, the “Red” administrations in Wales and Scotland would be there to thwart the Tories. Don’t think the Labour thought the SNP would ever get to the stage where they ran Scotland. Another example of be careful of what you wish for.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Forsyth

Indeed. That said it seems to be working better for Wales. Andy Burnham has expressed his ideas on devolution and constitutional reform: an elected Lords / Senate where members represent regions / nations; Scotland, Wales, Mercia, Wessex etc. each of these would have a devolved assembly with tax raising powers.

RobW
RobW
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

That sounds democratic but also a very bloated system with even more politicians in the mix. It is probably the last thing we need right now. I agree about the elected Lords though, or Upper Chamber, as it should be rebadged. There needs to be far fewer of them too. Maybe 100.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

I like the Lord’s/ Senate idea. Thinning out and democratisation of the Lord’s is way overdue. The regional assemblies needs fleshing out. Wessex, Mercia etc have bigger populations than Wales or Scotland or NI for example. I think what would have to happen is drastic merging of county councils / district councils etc. That way you could keep the number of politicians and ‘local’ authority civil servants roughly the same but have a much much efficient system of governance.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Nice to see a big name sharing ideas but it Sounds like a right mess, just give England an identical parliament to Scotland in York and have a smaller parliament in London to deal with federal issues and job done like every other country in the world.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Its good to have a debate. Constitutional reform is way overdue.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Yeah by about 300 years 😀

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Thankfully Burnhams views are of no consequence. His hysteria during the pandemic lost him all credibility.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Have to say I don’t know how these things work; whether Burnham is some kind of Labour lost sheep or whether he is being used to trail what will come out of Gordon Brown’s work on devolution and constitutional reform.

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

New Labour tried to push the regional assembly agenda, held a referendum on the subject in the North East and were decisively defeated. It’s just another ploy to create positions of power that would always be held by Labour… just like the Scottish Parliament….
Oops that didn’t work well, did it Mr Blair? 🤦🏻‍♂️

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Per Martin’s post below there has been a growing sense of dissatisfaction. This culminated in Brexit, the majority buying into the proposition that the EU was a constraint on our ability to create the national future we wanted. People were even prepared to suffer short term pain in the hope of future the ‘sunlit uplands’ that Brexit would bring. Now its always better to look at yourself before you start blaming others; the covid pandemic and global warming are revealing the enduring truth that no-one is saved alone. In tough times ( as in war) solidarity and sacrifice are what… Read more »

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

And we’ve plenty of examples how the fraternité of socialism has been disastrous;- USSR, Cambodia, North Korea, Cuba, etc. Plenty of supposedly well-meaning benevolent dictators have crushed individual rights in the pursuit of the common good, but in doing so are always doom themselves to fail. It’s called “noble cause corruption”. Destroy individualism and you have no Sir Tim Berners-Lee, no Elon Musk, no Dane Sarah Gilbert. Contrary to popular belief, we have highly regulated markets, both under law and regulatory authorities. Whether all the regularity authorities use their powers are a different question. Without “growth and profit” you have… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Fraternity is not socialism much less communism. It is what binds together a people, a troop of soldiers or a ship’s crew: solidarity with subsidiarity working in adversity with individuals prepared to make sacrifices for the common good.
it takes 600 gallons of water to make a beef burger from cattle that are fed on Brazilian soya. It takes 60 gallons to make a bean burger. On our current trajectory we will run out of water in 20 years.
https://www.nestle.com/sustainability/water

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Yes that’s fraternity, but that’s not what you’re advocating. We’ve had communism rebranded as socialism, and then as progressivism, and now by you as fraternity. Same failed authoritarian state control that leads to failure. Every time. I can’t believe how disingenuous you’re being in pushing your agenda. The vast majority of feed for U.K. livestock doesn’t come soya farms created by burning Brazilian rainforests. That’s the veggies trying to hijack the climate emergency to push their own particular agenda. But if you love bean burgers so much, you can have mine, I’ll be sticking to the real thing. In “1984”,… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Sean
Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

No, it is who you are twisting definitions not I. You have correctly introduced the key difference – authoritarianism; that is to say the elimination of democracy. In the decade after WW1 we saw significant social change; universal suffrage, votes for women, a labour government. WW2 drove similar quantum changes; the NHS, universal secondary education. These changes happen because being forced to come together in adversity highlights the dignity and need for solidarity and crucially the value of human life and the dignity of the person, attributes which are eroded by consumerism. Both the above post war examples saw fraternity… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Here, here

StevenW
StevenW
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Couldn’t agree with you more Sean. Well said! The left and a the BBC believe their own made up claptrap. So much so that they get others to believe it too. They would have it that the 80’s and Margaret Thatcher de-industrialised the UK. In fact industrial production rose more in that decade than either the 60s, 70s, 90s or 2000s.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Forsyth

The campaign for Scottish devolution pre dates the Labour Party. The Scottish office was opened 100 years ago for the same reason. The UK does not work it’s that simple, England needs to sort its self out with devolution or the other three will leave eventually.

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

“The U.K. does not work…”

Seriously?!?! 🤣😂🤣😂

The U.K. built the biggest empire in history and then peacefully dismantled it: most in history collapse in bloody violence.
The U.K. and it’s empire stood up to and resisted the evil of Nazism long before the USA got involved and while the USSR was in retreat.
The U.K. is a G7 and P5 member, and in science is only second to the USA for Nobel prizes, etc, etc, etc, etc

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Yes, I think you have hit the nail on the head there. The UK worked when we could expand into a less industrially advanced world where there was no shortage of resources. Different millenium now; planet crashing, needs new politics and economics.

Cj
Cj
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

New thinking is always a good sign if thinking clearly at that time.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Cj

Indeed. I’ve always been a fan of ‘what, so what, now what’ thinking. First we need to agree whether or not we are in a hole and need to stop digging. I think the evidence is pretty clear that we are.
The ‘now what’ bit is above my pay grade so I would turn to the emerging cohort of women academics and economists. As usual it’s the men who have screwed things up.

Last edited 1 month ago by Paul.P
grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

ah as is the modern way if in doubt virtue signal – & hope others are then afraid to comment.
There are plenty of great male economists as there are many poor females ones….oh and just to be clear vice versa….good job its above your pay grade init.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  grizzler

I am not in doubt. Have a science background and am convinced we have a serious problem which can’t be solved with current behaviours. Have a great day 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by Paul.P
Cj
Cj
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Hi Martin, I have to say I’m no expert here but I’m a bit miffed with your comment, we as four nations have family arguments now and again but we’re a super combo overall, if you go online about neighbouring countries in other parts of the world nowadays most are a lot worse than us so maybe a night of controlled breathing and chill music for yourself my friend.

Cripes
Cripes
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I certainly agree that a referendum on a constitutional matter should require a 2/3rds majority to pass.. That is almost a universal rule, whether the organisation is a company, the local sports club or anything else. It means there has to be a lot of support for a change, which prevents rival factions overturning it easily at each AGM. It is a sound rule. If enough Scots want independence, they could get it if they can convince 2/3rds of their countrymen to back it. If enough people want to rejoin the EU (!) they too would need to gain the… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  PaulW

Don’t be daft people in England can’t build ships that float 😀

Nicky Salmon's shoulder chip
Nicky Salmon's shoulder chip
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Unlike those Scottish built ferries that are at the forefront of technology then ?…

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

They can do better than Fergusons 😂

Cj
Cj
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Jeez My gran could do better than Fergusons,

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Did’nt Alex ferguson work in a ship yard …but yes I wouldnt trust his son Darren

Bob.
Bob.
1 month ago

While I will not knock investment I would prefer the government to facilitate investment rather than provide it directly.

As someone said on another thread, companies relying on government investment are less likely to become efficient players on the world scene.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob.

Indeed the story of the fall of much of British Industry and yet you get companies like JCB who have invested and reaped the benefits while far too many strip out costs at every move in the name of ‘efficiency’ when in reality they are simply delaying their collapse as funds to invest and modernise fades away till it’s too late to do so.

Expat
Expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Yes their are some bad eggs but I think saying far too many is not representing the true picture. UK is 8th globally in manufacturing but per person we manufacture more than China by value. The main problem is we only see negative headlines which skues perspective. I regularly visit UK manufacturers and most are investing and optimistic about the future. 1 I visited had plans to expand 4 fold and already have a 9 digit urn turn over!!!

Cj
Cj
1 month ago

Just read royal navy negotiations for naval strike missile, anyone know what’s happening with that thanks.

DMJ
DMJ
1 month ago
Reply to  Cj

Read the article on this site dated 5 July

Cj
Cj
1 month ago
Reply to  DMJ

Thanks didn’t see that.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Cj

Sorry for the duplicate…late seeing your post…Shepherd Media

Cj
Cj
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

👍

Mac
Mac
1 month ago

BAE should have done this years ago, off their own back, instead of throwing the money down the drain on shares buyback and quarterly dividend payments to the parasitic corporate shareholders..

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
RobW
RobW
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

There is no official confirmation as nothing has been completed. The subject of Harpoon replacement did come up at the Select Committee a few days ago. One of the RN officers said that “negotiations were ongoing”. He didn’t say that there was another competition, just that they were in negotiations. It seems that is for NSM. We’ll hear when its signed I guess.

RobW
RobW
1 month ago

Off topic.

Reports are that only 2 candidates currently have enough support from Tory MPs to make the ballot. That is Sunak and Mordaunt. Lets hope the latter wins if that is true. The future of our defence would be bleak otherwise.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

Spectator poll shows she would wipe the floor with any other candidate if she makes it too last two.

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

Yeah the 8 ‘finalists’ are a pretty shit bunch of has beens and nobodies- off Sbagae pulled out today – and surely even odder theres no Gove.
I have no idea about Mourdant – but for me its anyone but Sunak …or Hunt…or Truss….so Mourdant by default then…

Rec
Rec
1 month ago

It’s surely not acceptable that it is taking so long to build the first batch of Type 26 Frigates. We do need a proper industrial strategy and a faster build rate, especially in the current context I am still convinced that an order for 5/6 SSKS to supplement the Astures . The first 3 being built in Germany or Sweeden with the next 3 being built under license here.

bill masen
bill masen
1 month ago

What I see is nearly all our eggs in one basket, and thats never a good thing. Especially as that egg basket is quite likely to become a ” Foreign” country if the SNP get their way. We are just trying to BUY Scottish votes by throwing billions at them. Either way its bad strategically.

the_marquis
the_marquis
1 month ago

Wasn’t this the plan originally if MOD ordered 10 T26s?

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago

The telegraoh are reporting tiday that Harland and Wolf have been given a £55 million contract to build the new National flagship.
Oh dear.
Can think of better things to spend £55 million on. We have a flagship already they are called HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales and I’d rather we used £55million to buy wespinry for the RN to help protect said flagships.