At the DSEI Japan exhibition in Tokyo, advanced defence electronics firms representing Japan, the UK, and Italy have announced the signing of a collaboration agreement, the next formal step towards a permanent industrial construct for the Global Combat Air Program (GCAP).
Mitsubishi Electric, representing Japan, Leonardo UK, representing the UK, and both Leonardo and Elettronica representing Italy, have agreed to forge a closer business relationship and assess appropriate commercial and international operating models, readying the partners for the next stage of the GCAP programme.
This will happen in parallel with ongoing research and development work by all partners.
The Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) is a collaborative effort involving the United Kingdom, Japan, and Italy, with the goal of creating a sixth-generation stealth fighter.
The programme’s intention is to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon used by the Royal Air Force and the Italian Air Force, as well as the Mitsubishi F-2 utilized by the Japan Air Self-Defense Force. On December 9, 2022, the governments of Japan, the United Kingdom, and Italy jointly declared their plans to develop and implement a shared fighter jet.
This decision combined their formerly independent sixth-generation projects: the United Kingdom’s BAE Systems Tempest and Japan’s Mitsubishi F-X. In late December 2022, Japan and Sweden entered into an agreement regarding potential future collaboration.
Leonardo say that the GCAP’s Integrated Sensing and Non-Kinetic Effects (ISANKE) & Integrated Communications Systems (ICS) domain aims to unite defence electronics leaders from the three participating nations.
Each of the three GCAP nations contributes a substantial amount of expertise in the ISANKE & ICS domain. Mitsubishi Electric of Japan has already been engaged in the development of advanced electronics for the country’s next-generation F-X program. In Italy, Leonardo and Elettronica have been working on the advancement of state-of-the-art future combat multi-domain technologies, including sensors, communications, and data/information fusion, as part of the Italian Defense Technology Initiative. Leonardo UK, a founding member of the UK’s Tempest project, was established in 2018 to develop sixth-generation combat air technologies.
By combining their efforts, the tri-national team will form the ISANKE & ICS domain, which will be responsible for the advanced electronics integrated into the GCAP platform. This collaboration will equip the aircrew with an information advantage and sophisticated self-protection capabilities.
You can read more on this directly from industry by clicking here.
Getting Japan involved was a positive step. With these three nations involved there should be enough will to make sure the project is completed.
Part of the “Tilt to the Pacific” that Labour seem so vehemently against?
Possibly. Ultimately, a 5th or 6th Gen fighter is such a complicated and capital intensive project that Britain will need partners and Japan is perfectly suited to it.
Saudi Arabia also seem interested: https://twitter.com/kbsalsaud/status/1630968002467201029
All that Saudi can offer is cash. They buy what they need rather than develop it. Their culture will not even recognise copyright or intellectual property, unless it’s islamic. That sounds a little harsh but anyone who understands sharia business practices will confirm and most likely expand on it. Sell them scaled down export models by all means. A 6th gen aircraft is going to need some serious high tech input. Countries like Japan, South Korea and even Taiwan, have that in abundance. Let’s be honest here. The CCP are the reason why we need a 6th Gen fighter in… Read more »
You have answered your own question, their ties to the US, indeed their very existence, is going to scupper any such thoughts. And as they are the centre of spyware creation sold to anyone willing to pay, keeping them from infiltrating and then selling the project’s secrets to the most unscrupulous of others and including the US, will be the prime engagement with them I suspect beyond any weapon systems worth incorporating.
I don’t think I asked a question. So who are you talking about? I was of the opinion the CCP and Russia were the lowest of the low when it comes to cyber espionage and spyware. Groups such as Cozy Bear are russian state operatives. Behind the 2015 attack on the Pentagon, FireEye hack (allegedly), SolarWinds hack (allegedly), COVID-19 vaccine data theft etc. Then there is Double Dragon from the CCP cyber unit. They conducted a massive global hacking campaign in 2020. You may remember it. It is a very interesting subject. If you can point me in the right… Read more »
Absolutely George – the F-35I has extra sneaky stuff on top of the stealth characteristics of the aircraft itself. One thing I’d also add is Israel’s extensive combat experience. Under the radar (no pun intended!) they have been using their F-35I’s to tremendous effect in the ongoing proxy war in Syria, against the Iranian regime. That knowledge would prove very useful in the design of Tempest. Secondly, if Labour do get it in they need to keep Tempest afloat as it needs to be remembered that the RAF/RN sacrificed F-35B numbers to help pay for Tempest (original 138 down to… Read more »
The prowess of the IDF is legendary but not exaggerated. There are important lessons to be learned by the rest of us.
The GB cutbacks and evisceration of its military cannot continue for much longer. A war is coming of that there can be no doubt. HM Armed Forces need to hold on with tooth and claw. The situation will change. Hopefully we will still have the nucleus from which to grow a competent force worthy of our history.
Hi George, I lived in Israel and understand their philosophy totally. Theirs is a very rough neighborhood and their fight is existential. They fight fire with fire and make no apologies for it. They make it clear to all in the region that if you mess with us, you’re going to regret it. The IDF are superb and the Mossad equally so. They have infiltrated the Iranian regime to an huge extent and we in the west need to be thankful that they have – especially with regard to the latter’s nuclear program. I am immensely proud to have lived… Read more »
David, I’m jealous. Israel has been on my bucket list for decades. The opportunity just never presented itself to visit. It’s the only country I would consider fighting for, other than my own. I have had the pleasure of working with Israelis but here in English slipper city accademia. The experience only reinforced my prior opinions. Real nice people and indecently, they were IDF reservists. The way successive HM Gov have stripped the British Armed Forces down to the bone is worse than disgusting. I would say treasonous. The only thing worse is the way the Royal Family and the… Read more »
Hi George again,
Politics of the region aside, Israel itself is stunningly beautiful is so many ways. It has the same land area as Wales and you can travel top to bottom by bus in 4hrs.
I lived in Western Galilee where it was greener than say the Negev further south which is very arid. The people were open and welcoming too which was always great. It was – and still is – very expensive though with a high cost of living, especially for property/housing.
I recommend a visit if you can – you won’t regret it!
George,
Hi, believe the autocorrect feature has struck again in the first paragraph of your post (indecently substituted for incidentally). Unless it was a Freudian slip, in which case the analysis could prove to be sporting indeed. 🤔😳😉
New glasses arriving tomorrow. Normal service will resume thereafter. Ho ho ho.
🤣😂😁
Israeli Zionists are vile. So it’s easy to see why right whingers everywhere love them. Corruption, disregard for the rule of law, blatant lying to their own people and parliament; all the good stuff Tories like to do, with the backing of the World’s No.1 hypocrite, the USA.
Just a matter of time before someone like you posted antisemitic comments. Congratulations. Heard it all before….. yawn, yawn…
Indeed. He even missed off some of the usual rhetoric. Must be one of the lesser Corbyn followers.
Are you related to the Corbyn family?
Primitive learning it seems.
Does not even know what Zionism means…
Yaaaaaaaawn sad sad sad chuff.
Did the used and worn Jeremy Corbyn socks arrive through the post yet? Good little earner he is on isn’t it, selling his used pants and socks to sad little bedwetting lefties like you. Did you use your dole money on them?
Having any issues with Starlink? When do you think the mud will be dry enough for any serious offensives to make progress? You did make it out there Airhostess? Don’t tell me you are still in the UK and now shilling for the despicable Israeli state…
Wow, is that really the best you can do? Interesting considering it wasn’t a post to you, or was it? Anyway very weak effort, just 2 out of 10 you must do better.
And, do you still support Putin and Russia in this invasion as you have previously stated:
Luke Rogers
13 days ago
Reply to Airborne
No fear, my moral cowardice of not agreeing with everyone and reserved occupation means I won’t have to go anyway. Not to mention that I hope they win. I’d fight for Russia before siding with Pædo Joe, the billionaire Indian in No. 10 and the fiddler of Kweef.
Yep. Unless NATO get their occupation forces out of Serbia, I’m staying consistent.
How pathetic!
Pathetic!
I get the feeling you’re never going to go there. What an absolute larper. Bet you play airsoft in full MTP.
So how is fully supporting rape of women and children going? Enjoy that? makes you feel like a man eh, got a pretend Russian uniform…..play illegal invasion and raping of Ukrainian girls in your bed-sit? Is that exciting for you?
Personally not interested in Slavs. The picture you paint sounds like Rotherham though, shame you aren’t interested in that.
Also interesting that out of the three elected politicians you don’t like, you had to use the only none white ones heritage! Wow, a racist as well as a Nazi, hand in glove though eh, as you’re a sad fan of Putin!
Whatever keeps you warm at night as you imagine being the big tough hero of Bakhmut Airsoft.
So you don’t deny supporting the rape of women and children by Russian nob jockies and you’re a racist! Nice, you must be proud!
Yawn. Get a life chickenhawk. If you are happy for people with foreign interests at heart to be in high offices of state then don’t complain on here about the dreadful state of the armed forces and government procurement. People like Sunak, Javid, Schapps, Starmer and Hunt don’t care about this country except what they can extract from it. People like you who defend their actions and push for conflict are just as guilty. Take your child rape fantasies back to your kebab shop airsoft.
Ah I see the conversation content is getting you excited! You support and would fight for Russia, you have already stated that, therefore my little Putin nonce, you support the abuse, rape, murder of Ukrainian women and children…..take your Russian army fantasy back to your next NF meeting! is it tissue time……..is that your reserved occupation, Nazi flag bearer? Sad pillock!
So many projections and exclamation marks. You seem rattled. Always back to the idea of sex with children with you, perhaps your hard drive needs looking at.
Good try, effort at deflection, but you still stated this:
Luke Rogers
13 days ago
Reply to Airborne
No fear, my moral cowardice of not agreeing with everyone and reserved occupation means I won’t have to go anyway. Not to mention that I hope they win. I’d fight for Russia before siding with Pædo Joe, the billionaire Indian in No. 10 and the fiddler of Kweef.
So, just to recap: 1. You don’t like the Jewish 2. You don’t like Slavs 3. You don’t like Indians 4. You don’t like elected politicians, certainly not foreign. You do like: 1. The Russian invasion of Ukraine 2. Putin So, your both racist and a supporter of illegal aggression, wich means you support, and will join in, as a volunteer fighter for Russia, the torture, murder and rape of females. So, instead of deflection, all this has been stated by yourself, and maybe own it, back your thought process up and stop being a coward and trying to deflect… Read more »
I said I’d fight for Russia BEFORE the current Western leaders. A preference, not a declaration of undying allegiance. Reading comprehension is not your strength. The rest of your waffle is presumptive nonsense. I don’t care if Ukraine gets wrecked by Russia, we have no defence obligations to them. The more I see you seething about it the less I care for them. Trickling in weapon systems at a rate just sufficient to keep the conflict grinding along seems unnecessarily cruel though, which is what YOU are supporting.
Oh dear, now your angry and making even less sense. Stop being scared, stop efforts at deflection, own your nonsense and calm down.
*you’re.
Another no content comment from Airsoft.
And there you go, no answer, to afraid and cowardly to own your own nonsense. But no surprise.
*too.
You can own your own drivel, I’m not obliged to. Like how I have no obligation to defend Ukraine. Call me a coward all you like, at least I served and don’t have to hide behind a larp pseudonym you illiterate cretin.
Oh dear, getting angrier and angrier! But not sure a few years NF flag bearer counts! Now calm yourself down and own your comments, stop trying to deflect! I find you amusing in a tame, sad way.
So just to recap: You don’t like UK politicians (especially Indian ones) but you like Putin, that bastion of legitimacy. You don’t like Slavs, but will side with Russia (Slavs) against Ukraine, and want them to win an illegal war, on which war crimes are verified as being carried out by the side you want to win. You don’t like Jewish people. You wouldn’t be called up as you verify you are a coward, but state due to your reserved occupation you wouldn’t be called anyway, however you don’t have a reserve liability after 5 years out, and due to… Read more »
Oh I’ve had to look up larp, funny you knew that acronym and I didn’t!
What is it, mate?
Not a unit I’m aware of!!! 🙂
He is just being a child but I’m bored now, it’s not a unit mate it’s a derogatory term meaning live action role play! Cheers 👍
I know it’s not mate!!😆 People say I’m good with the unit acronyms so was just having a laugh.
Larp!! You of all people. LOL.
I was surprised as if there’s an acronym out for the military, your ok it 👍 I should stop, but you know me like to click bait the clowns on here, as I do find their lack of nads when asked to confirm their position and previous stance, most amusing. And they don’t half gnash their teeth but pretend they’re not! 😂
Oh, are you still yelling into the void? LMAO.
Stop calling yourself a void, I’m sure you know something useful!
Here we go again. More terrorist loving antisemitic scum from the left. Keep an eye on the sky comrade, the next drone could have your name on it.
Extrajudicial drone killings are a bit terroristy to be fair.
But you’d support that action as you support Russia in this invasion, and stated you would fight for them, which means you support rape, murder of women and kids and torture! Not sure if your a troll or just a sad tearful little kid!
Yes we are providing lots of security guarantees in the pacific in return for the free trade deals we were promised.
No free trade deals yet, US delayed indefinitely, CTPP missing in action, India deal looks worse than the NZ deal )and that’s saying something), while our exports to Europe have cratered.
That’s what labour is looking at. That’s what the Tilt to Asia was designed to do.
Odd then that UK exports are up?
ESRI shows reductions in UK to EU goods trade by 16% which is attributed to the B word. Overall offset by other exports to elsewhere but latest OBR does confirm that UK appears to have become a less trade intensive economy, with trade as a share of GDP falling 12 per cent since 2019, two and a half times more than in any other G7 country. Stats can confuse but ultimately does it help us to leave, no, do people put misplaced hope in abstract ideas of freedom, yes, but that’s humans for you. Let’s make the best of a… Read more »
Are people forgetting COVID out of convenience ?
No, we are the worst in bouncing back in the G7 from Covid, so maybe not want to open that one given we have the worst inflation also and paying the most for energy also. Hoping next 2 years will see improvements on all fronts and we can stop saying things are bad all the time.
We’re not paying the most for energy
https://fullfact.org/economy/energy-prices-europe-comparison/
My bills feels like it and the chancellor is borrowing billions to ease it which we all pay a price for later including slicing back defence
So you’re complaining about your energy bill, which is being reduced by government subsidies, but complaining that the government will then have to make economies because of these subsidies 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
If you’d followed the budget on Wednesday you’d know HMG is on target to reduce borrowing while increasing Defence to 2.25% GDP.
And countries like France that are borrowing billions to subsidise their populations energy bills are in the same position. It’s just they use the money to retail price for energy, whereas the U.K. government effectively gives the money to people to help with the bills.
Sean, you are arguing for the sake of it, I don’t really disagree with what you are saying, you can see i am referring my higher bills in the context of other G7 countries and I understand the need to ease the pain by governments, but the point is that this country is running at a deficit and has been for a very long time and various decisions has made us poorer that could have been avoided or simply not done.
I’m not, I’m trying to provide the context, because it influences the sentiment of international markets, from government bonds through to debt. We saw under Truss’ 30 days of madness how the spooking of the bond market almost resulted in the bankrupting of the entire U.K. pensions industry. The reason why the U.K. panicked the bond market was we were doing something nobody else was doing, we became an outlier. Now when looking at national debt consider the following… in 2009 Greek debt to GDP reached 127%, however Italy’s debt to GDP wasn’t far off at 117% of GDP. However… Read more »
Excellent well written response Sean. Good contexts raised, i may slightly disagree on a couple of points but overall I agree on the thrust of your response.
Thanks, it’s nice to get acknowledgment when an effort is made to research the facts before posting. Though of course the effort also helps me to recheck the validity of my position and whether I’ve overlooked something previously.
Much appreciated. 😊
Thanks for the link, seems that we are in the top decile for electricity prices but median for gas. But as gas is a bigger percentage of energy use in the U.K. that puts us somewhere in the upper 6th/7th decile?
No the opposite way round, as we proportionally use more gas.
Sean you might want to read my answer!
Short answer. Yes.
You forgot to mention that EARI found that while U.K. exports to EU fell 16%, EU exports to the U.K. fell 20%. In short the UK’s net trade balance with the EU improved.
Statistics on UK-EU trade.
House of commons library
Published 21/12/2022
UK exports to EU 2006-21 54% – 42% of all exports
EU exports to UK 2002-21 58% – 45% of all imports
The EU is a declining share of UK trade and has been for decades.
I didn’t mention it because I was talking exports not imports, imports don’t generate money (bar tariffs). Yep I know the position on trade balance and you are right to state that imports from EU has reduced but in reality both dropping isn’t good, it just means both sides are finding it harder to trade. Only so much of this talk before I get rigomortice sets in….
That’s a bit like saying we both got worse but ur worse than me😂.
did the EU countries imports/exports move the same between EU countries and are there imports/exports with rest of the world better or worse than the U.K.?
What % of the mentioned 16% is impacted due to a reduction in industrial output caused directly by the pandemic/semiconductor shortage?
You are clearly very focused on the ‘B’ decision and dont like that it went ahead but sadly the figures are completely ‘B’lurred’ by the ongoing pandemic and war related issues. As much as the Labour loving press like to blame everything on us leaving the EU the reality im sorry is very different, yes it had an impact of course it did but the many other factors are also having an impact too.
I’m not focusing on Brexit, I mention it more as a drag factor amongst other things, have to say it’s you who is focussed on that as your response in all based on it, although I do like your B’lurred pun. Just to point out some stereotyping there, you don’t need to be a lefty to question leaving the most affluent trading club a few miles off our shores, it’s not an anti patriot thing, I live in Barnsley not Islington, I don’t sit reading the guardian whilst balancing falafel on my nipples.
im enjoying the exchange here thanx guys
Up and climbing.
Yeah but when you look at the stats, Asia growth in much higher then Europe’s messily 1.7% the Asia economies are powering ahead in growth terms. So it shows Tories policy is correct but badly executed where as Labours tilt back EU is just the wrong policy. Pretty much sums up why I see both parties as unfit to govern, to preoccupied at sniping at each other than doing the best thing for the British people.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-annual-growth-rate?continent=asia
Yet Germany and France are succeeding in Asia much more than we are despite being in the EU. So it’s hardly one or the other,
Just reinforces my point then. Labour want to focus on Europe, Tories more globally. Both seem incompetent and more interested in just doing the opposite of each other than the right thing.
👍
The Asian boom if you go into the numbers is high end luxury goods, Germany has high volume luxury vehicles, France is doing exceptionally well in high end luxury fashion and drinks. Im sure Switzerland will be doing very well in high end luxury watches also.
Sadly the UK is not hugely prominent in ‘high volume’ luxury goods and goodness knows which country the profits/trade volumes of Bentley/Rolls Royce is filtered through these days but these are limited in numbers and never going to be volume goods.
The U.K. is currently finalising entry terms for the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) and membership is expected to occur during the summer.
👍👍
Excellent! Perhaps a better chance of successfully negotiating a free(r) trade agreement w/ US after the current Irish-Catholic POTUS vacates WH? 🤔😉
Like many Irish Americans, it’s only part of his ancestry. Biden’s paternal line has been traced to stonemason William Biden, who was born in 1789 in Westbourne, England, and emigrated to Maryland in the United States by 1820. 😏 Given the Inflation Reduction Act’s many sweeping measures, I doubt the USA will be signing up to any new free-trade agreements any time soon. I think we’re going to see more protectionism globally, partly as a result of the discrediting of JIT delivery and the collapse of global supply chains during the pandemic, and partly due to populism. Personally I’ve always… Read more »
Believe there will be some increased three-way trade, induced, almost inevitably, through the auspices of AUKUS. May require significant lead time…
“Tilt to the Pacific” that Labour seem so vehemently against?
Maybe because the UK cannot defend it’s own back yard, so why are we sticking our ‘oar in’, far from home?
Our oar, which consists of:
2 OPV.
1 Infantry Btn, RAF Sqn, and bits and pieces in Brunei.
Naval Party in Diego Garcia.
Naval Party and JL facility in Singapore.
All of which, bar the OPVs have been there for decades. The QEC deployment is periodic, and just demonstrated our capability to do so. Reducing such meagre forces won’t increase the size of the Army.
Meanwhile, Indonesia are buying T31, Aus the SSNR via AUKUS, and Japan are involved in Tempest, so such efforts do have results.
Surely, seriously merely token presences that’s all.
Yes! Exactly. Which is why I don’t get the anti, the assets are so small their stance must be for other, more ideological reasons. The Shadow DS was linking his criticism to us having a larger army, which is utter crap. Cutting those meagre forces in the far East would achieve nothing towards a larger army.
Yup. Tiny investment, large benefits.
River B2 really earning their pay.
Believe that a relatively small military ,investment, in combination w/ soft power, has netted a significant recent gain in influence of UK in the Indo-Pacific theater. Influence will become more pronounced in late 2020’s and beyond when multiple T-31s (possibly uparmed) and an Astute class are forward deployed/based, periodic deployments of a fully equipped CBG occur, as well as joint progress on multiple AUKUS initiatives materializes. Undergirding all though, will be the deployment of the Dreadnought class, w/ increased warhead load-out. Bottom line, that is the potential existential threat the ChiComs will attend to most closely. 🤔
You’ve seen what happened to the UK’s economy when Russia invaded Ukraine. Far from home doesn’t mean consequence free and none of our business.
However it’s still token gestures, which to some, are becoming embarrassing. The armed forces, especially the army, have been hacked, slashed, chopped and ‘hollowed out’, to a point where both the US and some European Allies, have little or no faith in its ability any more. This isn’t bull on conjecture, unfortunately is is fact. Even after all this destruction and abuse the army has taken, certain Infantry regiments will be making some of their number effectively redundant by Christmas. It would seem to me, that the UK Armed forces will have a few decent ships (in due course) aircraft… Read more »
Others will join. South Korea for example ought to be courted. Australia in the wake of AUKUS.
South Korea hates Japan and is doing its own 5th gen.
Does South Korea’s “hatred” of Japan trump their national security concerns about NK and China ?
Exactly esp as when China decides to absorb Taiwan it would make strategic sense to encourage Nth Korea to take out South Kore which is the major other designer of much of the silicon chips we all use potentially taking China from well under 10% to over 90% control over such micro processors and connected tech production.
I think relations have been improving recently. Watched a news piece about it yesterday.
Hang on this week they just had their first summit meeting they may dislike each other for obvious reasons but when you have two expansionist empires in common as close by enemies plus Nth Korea I think you may find friendship at least on the surface may well enforce military and strategic cooperation. That said they aren’t going to get involved in a 6th Gen jet when they are looking to produce and export their own 5th Gen version esp as no one has really defined the true differences as yet. Might be room for some cooperation to enhance both… Read more »
Hmmm…’the enemy of my enemy is my friend (at least momentarily)? Although, some British PM once stated (to Q. Victoria?), something along the lines of:
‘GB doesn’t have friends, it has interests.’ Need to research that quote…🤔
Palmerston. “Therefore I say that it is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.” 1848 Address to the house answering a question about the implications of the 1829 Treaty of Adrianople between Russia and the Ottoman Empire (and asking government papers of the time be examined to see whether Britain had any involvement in or foreknowledge… Read more »
Thanks! Your answer provided more context than my Wiki search. 😉 Once again proving the maxim that a little knowledge can indeed prove to be a dangerous thing. 🤔😏
Maybe we could grease South Korea’s cogs if we held talks about purchasing their MBTs, SPGs and IFVs.
Possibly, and they have a very useful jet trainer too.
KAI, the Air Force and the South Korean National Institute of Science and Technology plan to develop sixth-generation technologies to address threats beyond 2035, many of which will be incorporated into the KF-21 Boramae.
LINK
https://www.asianmilitaryreview.com/wp-content/uploads/6-KAIT-50.jpg
FA-50
LINK
R.O.K T-50 Black Eagles Airshow 2023.
LINK
Just wondered what the Scandinavians could bring to the table??
Always impressed with there bang for buck ratio.
That’s an interesting question. As previously their requirements for replacing the Gripen, was that it must have a very good short take-off and landing (STOL) performance. Which normally precludes big heavy fighters in the Typhoon/F22 class. However, this may have changed. The STOL requirement was due to them being a neutral country sandwiched between NATO, Finland and Russia. Where it was likely that if a war kicked off, its airfields would be targeted. Meaning they’d have to operate their Gripens from roads etc. Now that they are joining NATO along with Finland. Do they still need an aircraft with such… Read more »
I suspect there is still mileage in the Gripen with future enhanced models. Coming into this project might a good move for Sweden as the Gripen would not compete with it. Countries might well then be tempted to buy the Gripen to give a capable airframe whith might be seen as a pathway to tempest.
Saab are part of the program as an observer. They don’t however have any commitment or contractual obligation to the program. There is still a requirement for a less stealthy and costly aircraft. The Gripen or something similar would fit the requirement of Countries not requiring an all the bells and whistles aircraft. Especially if it can still do 75% of the job, such as patrolling airspace etc. Tempest I fear is going to be a step too far for most Countries. It not only the pilot training, but also the maintenance required to keep it flying. The F35 is… Read more »
As Bae have done or tried to, as a pathway to Typhoon.
Many systems in the Gripen NG (Gripen E/F) are made by Leonardo, such as the radar.
True, the Raven is a very capable radar, that came about due to the development of Captor-E. Those marvellous people up in Edinburgh had a big hand in its development.
Yes interesting to note that Sweden/Japan cooperation agreement, hadn’t heard about that. I think that Sweden are playing a wait and see game understandably for the reasons you state regarding determining what they really need to replace Gripen. However where they will certainly be involved at the very least as a supplier is again as you state some of their tech expertise in particular their state of the art advanced digital twinning expertise that even the US exploits in its own 6th Gen and other projects. It’s simply the level they commit to that is in question especially if they… Read more »
Always thought that Saab would be part of the program officially. It is definitely in their interest now that Japan is heavily involved. I still believe there is a need for a Tempest Lite. An aircraft that uses a lot of the components, engine, avionics etc of Tempest, but in a smaller and cheaper package.
That’s an interesting possibility though could they handle the cost implications I wonder for such an expensive and complex base programme being substantially modified.
Looking ahead, I don’t see they have much choice. They definitely don’t want to be part of the FCAS program. as trying to sort out a new work share agreement will be a major problem. Similarly if you look around the World at fighter aircraft that are being developed, there are a few Countries that match the Swedish requirements. South Korea is developing the KF51 which is like a 5th Generation aircraft in data fusion etc, but won’t be a massive leap in low observability compared to a F35. As it wont have an internal weapons bay. Turkey is still… Read more »
Probably between 1&0% probability of Navy NGAD ever happening.
STOL, VSTOL or STOVL are a wise capability for any nation. even someting below F35 complexity & cost but improving on the AV 8B, when fixed airbases are so easily targeted by missile strike & we have little to ensure good air base defense. F35s are great but too expensive & lose the former flexibility Harriers had by needing specially treated take off & landing spots due to extreme et temperatures.
As much as I loved the Harrier, it has had its day. In today’s World, it would not last long when faced with a peer adversary, especially in a BVR scenario. Sadly there is no easy (cheap) solution to designing a VSTOL/STOVL aircraft. Weight is always the issue. Unless you want to use say twin engines which then necessitates and maintaining the balance between the two. You have to use a massive single engine like the F135. But even that in maximum military power cannot produce enough thrust to lift a F35 that is carrying a useful payload. As it… Read more »
Uk and Japan has to be pretty much the dream team of aircraft development, both bring budgets and technology and both are reasonable governments keen to promote a wider friendship. Both also have massive soft power in their regions that can secure exports. Compare that to the French and Germans obsessed with work share and getting back more than they put in. They see military procurement as a job making exercise rather than creating the best product for their military. The French Air Force is looking very outdated today. God knows what it will look like in 2050 when FCAS… Read more »
Agreed. I hope your lot will support it, which worries me considering the comments coming from the Shadow DS complaining about HMGs Pacific rhetoric, which is more to do with trade and defence partnerships than actual assets, which are minimal and have mostly been deployed there for decades, the 2 RB2s excluded of course.
It’s jobs for the north west of England and support for unions, they are all over it. The current rhetoric is more to deal with trade deals which are non existent and they want to move closer to Europe again hoping to fix the Brexit mess which is more of a land sentric. They are also trying to court rural and farming votes which are concerned about the **** deals NZ and Australia have forced on the UK while dangling CTPP membership that’s not happened. But the budget is safe from labour, ship building is safe and no way they… Read more »
Problem is we have a massive issue with skilled labour and there a huge amount of green infrastructure to build which Labour have pulled the target in by 5 years and are saying 400,000 new green jobs are possible by 2030. So 1 or more of 4 things are going to have to happen in 5 years. 1) Massive investment in high tech equipment and huge increase in productivity. 2) Mass migration to fill the Labour shortage (cough housing shortage, creaking infrastructure) 3) Drop other projects and refocus the workforce on green energy. (Defence? or HS2?) 4) Hand the green… Read more »
So I’m confused, What Labour really want is a big land based Army to defend Europe. Labour are only supporting Tempest deal with Japan because of the Unions, not because they think it has real military value? Same for ship building is more about union jobs than having the right ships to defend us and our interests?
Yes, it worries me.
I think one of the reasons why I am optimistic something will come out of this is that it looks like a partnership of equals, you don’t have one nation trying to take the lead and push the other nations to the sidelines. I also think that will be a reason why all nations stick to this program as they all have something to loose if they pull out compared to other programs which is dominated by one nation and the others are just on the sidelines buying the end product.
The French got seriously pissed with Germany going down the F35 route after canceling the F18 deal. Can’t understand why?
Hard to remember a time when the French weren’t pissed off.
😂👍
The joint program looks like it’s progressing nicely. All the key elements are now enabled from airframe design, engines and now avionics. Sadly Saab aren’t more officially involved. What the above piece does not say, is that the GCAP is replacing the F15s Japan uses for the air defence and long range interceptor role. The F35A is really replacing the Mitsubishi F2, which is a licensed production and evolution of the F16 as their multi-role fighter. Both Japan and the UK have the same requirements. So expect this aircraft to be big, necessary for internal weapons carriage and the large… Read more »
Not certain to whom the US will be willing/able to supply NGAD, at least initially. Australia and perhaps Canada (NZ, even w/ a defence friendly gov’t, may simply not be able to afford purchase)? 🤔
I agree, following on from the F22 experience, I doubt the US will export NGAD.
I’ve noticed that the US and China 6th gen projects are tailless, will that lead to an increase in cost due to them being more complex to design?
Minimal I’d imagine. BAE will still charge more though.
Tailless require clever software combined with either vectored thrust or ailerons that also function to control yaw to keep it stable. It’s 80’s tech & fly by wire.
It will come at the expense of a severe decline in kinetic performance but will substantially reduce Radar Cross Section especially for long wavelengths radars.
Cost is no longer a major consideration for tailless designs as computer stabilisation is much more widespread and understood.
NGAD however is more likely to be a long range mini stealth bomber type with multiple crew onboard controlling drones while Tempest is more likely to be a son of F22 Raptor combining high end kinetic performance from the Raptor with the electronics and sensor capabilities of F35.
I’m going to disagree on that one, as it depends on how you define kinetic performance? A tailless design will be by its very nature develop less drag so will be more aerodynamically efficient. Therefore it can either fly faster on the same fuel burn or maintain the same speed using less fuel. However, its one disadvantage is when it has to engage in a within visual range fight i.e. dogfighting. Without an effective tail fin/rudder it faces a severe disadvantage, especially in maintaining coordinated turns and certain manoeuvres when banked over. Could it do a stall turn for example?… Read more »
If you can’t see it, you can’t hit it. Like the US, the Tempest programme uses digits twins and makes use of the very best in AI to take the known historical data and put it to use when developing a new airframe. When it comes to the design, digital manufacturing gives the project design team the ability to have every conceivable design tested, stressed and mapped for durability and longevity before ever making something. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Tempest and US models come out looking similar. This method of development and manufacturing is supposed to cut… Read more »
For the name of the aircraft, I suggest Spitfire 2 for the RAF name and Zero 2 for the Japanese.
What about Spitfire Zero.
Royal Navy could use the name ‘Sea Spit’
Or “Zitfire”!
Well if you stay with the British storm naming convention, Japanese god of lighting is Raijin. So you could have the Raijin Tempest.
THAT! 👏🏻
I’ll take 300 !
That might even work in Scotland !
I think you are on the ball, as I spell out below as the Japanese and British both have strong histories of naming aircraft after powerful winds it would make sense as both Countries replaced their original classic fighters ie Spitfire and Zero with Powerful Wind references. I just wonder if Fury which followed on from Tempest would be more similar to Raijin. “Kestrel” became “Harrier” in the production version of that aircraft so has a historical modernist analogy .. despite the fact only Kestrels truly hover.
Tempest and the aircraft that replaced the Zero both have similar meanings in their respective languages. N1K Kyōfū “Strong Wind”, and its more applicable land derivative N1K-J Shiden “Violet Lightning” would be logical names for the Japanese version therefore, especially as the original Tempest’s own forebear the Typhoon was originally intended to replace the Spitfire by 1942, which is in part why the original order for Spits was so small, Typhoons and Whirlwinds were deemed the next true generation fighters by many in the the MoD in 1938, for different reasons neither of those did so. Zero is in fact already part of… Read more »
I fancy Huyabusa, which in English means Peregrine Falcon. A bird built for speed that hunts other birds.
Including Blackbirds, if you are into motorbikes
Yes, an absolute legend of a motorbike,
The Japanese island chain is nearly 2000 miles long so hopefully Tempest will have the legs to meet Japans need vs China which would give a big boost to the reach of the RAF.
Longer range, lots of weapons. The latest mock ups suggest a big separation between engines which suggest a big weapons bay. That could give options for newer biger weapons that the shorter F35B bays mean can’t be carried internally. Eg hypersonic.
The trouble there is you end up with horrible asymmetric thrust in the event of an engine failure. You can partly counter it with larger rudders but now you are compromising the stealth elements and you find yourself building a larger airframe, which needs more powerful engines, which exacerbates problem 1 etc.
Just interesting that it’s Leonardo UK and not BAE or both signing for the UK.
Agree. It is interesting. I suppose means a BAE specializing more in hardware/kinetik stuff (AFV, missiles etc) and Leonardo UK more for eletronic stuff (Radars, EW, coms etc)
BAe did the EWS system in the F22.
In other fighter news it looks like the F35 is going to go with the P&W engine upgrade for all 3 variants instead of GE adaptive engine projected to be ready in 2030.
One headline said block 4 delayed until 2030 but gives no details in the article.
https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/pentagon-f-35-engine-upgrade-to-be-funded-by-all-jet-customers-will-be-ready-by-fy30/
Good find 👍
Tech for the new engines for Tempest looks pretty groundbreaking. The video gives you an insight into the future. I wonder if they can be modified to fit Typhoons.
LINK
AETP is dead then. I thought they’d pursue the same adaptive engines for NGAD even if it didn’t come to the F-35 this time around, but I missed an announcement last summer that there’s a separate nearly $5bn adaptive engine program for NGAD called NGAP.
Lockheed Martin sure know how to charge. They even claim the software belongs to them and not the US government and the other partners who paid for it all.
DSEI Japan has a model of GCAP on display, obviously subject to changes. It does look like how I thought it was going to look. BAE Project Replica with the Tempest wing design (Link)
So something smaller than anything else around, faster, and crewless?
Australian company Hypersonix has received contract from the Pentagon to produce a hypersonic test plane for the US, It will be used as a test platform for sensors and communications equipment at hypersonic speeds. The Mach 7 DART AE is expected to have first flight next year and be available as a testbed in 12-18 months time.
https://www.defensenews.com/battlefield-tech/2023/03/17/pentagon-chooses-australian-firm-to-build-hypersonic-test-aircraft/
Interesting, you can see why we are keen to establish an AUKUS based relationship on hypersonics with the US and Australia. I note they are investigating flight to Space too though not read it as yet. If the Sabre engine is ever to see its true potential fulfilled eventually then programs like this are vital. Their scramjet design already uses hydrogen I note as a fuel so some overlap experience already.
Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise (or sub in Invincible, illustrious, Ark Royal, etc.), whose five year mission… Could be a while, but it will seem to be much sooner after say another 50 years. 🤔😳
Because F-35B.
Two ways to look at that answer, both relevant indeed. Yes 1) ‘the F-35B’ which will be good enough for most, or all of the carrier’s life especially as it will be serially updated including updated engines. But equally 2) the ‘F-35B’ a good aircraft, but due to having to have the VSTOL version has seriously compromised the other two.versions (especially aerodynamically affecting Supercruise) adding cost, delay and complexity that no way whatsoever would we wish to impose on Tempest. Indeed I would argue most 5th Gen fighters would be as good or better overall than a 6th Gen fighter… Read more »
It is shaping up to be a real contender to the USA 6th Gen projects. This will not please the Pentagon,
Makes you think about how they are going to sabotage the program.
Tut , tut such cynicism,
However I will confess the TSR2 did come to mind while I was writing my post. Uncle Sam did have a huge hand in its downfall.
However, that being said, given they would not sell the F22, then would the Tempest be seen as a competitor!
That’s why the more strategic partners the better. Hopefully though still doubtfully with the likes of a Trump, the US is understanding the days when it could operate alone and as it wanted are coming to an end and compromising allies technologically, politically and strategically is totally self defeating. They have rubbed too many up the wrong way already, especially in South America and the whole idea of telling the powerful and influential Europeans and Asians that they need to take more responsibility and spend more in defending themselves, but have to buy American to do so, is just not… Read more »
As long as it is not the Germans or the French. The Germans caused no end of trouble with Typhoon. Trying to pull out of the project or dumb it down.
So the French are welcome to the Germans as partners on their 6 th Gen fighter
The UK has a manufacturer that’s working on a M+6 unit. The issue all of them will have is dealing with the heat such a speeds bring.
Can you explain what an M+6 unit is.
Mach mate.
It will be cancelled sometime in the future..TRS2..Defence and Advance engineering are not priorities for the UK government
Can’t wait until we get four of these 6th Gen fighters to replace the entire Typhoon fleet. On current MOd spend trends, they might even stretch to five!
Can always rent them from the Japanese I guess.
Here’s an interesting titbit from India.
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2023/3/16/future-jet-fighter-could-be-held-together-with-glue
I’m told BAE have some experience with mixing glue and rivets. Let’s hope this is more successful.
Memories of building Airfix kits as a kid- my fingers were always more glue than skin…..to this day I still dont have finger prints….