The new Type 32 Frigate will be built in addition to the Type 26 and Type 31 Frigates in the hopes of bringing the escort fleet up to 24 vessels from its current 19.

This comes after Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced what the Ministry of Defence have called “the biggest investment in the UK’s Armed Forces since the end of the Cold War”, confirming an injection of £16.5 billion over four years.

Referring to his promise to “restore Britain’s position as the foremost naval power in Europe”, the Prime Minister added:

“If there was one policy which strengthens the UK in every possible sense, it is building more ships for the Royal Navy.”

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said today:

“We’re going to commit to the next generation of frigate the Type 32. We’re going to commit to bringing online the Type 31 and Type 26 Frigates in Scotland.”

According to a press release from the Government:

“The £16.5 billion investment confirms our order of 8 Type 26 and 5 Type 31 frigates, commits us to the next generation Type 32, and supports the future solid support ships that will supply our Carrier Strike Group.

Whilst this is reassuring news for the defence industry, Defence will not overlook the challenges that are ahead, to continue addressing the savings still required and the efficiencies we need to make.”

Discussing this news, respected defence journalist Xavier Vavasseur at NavalNews said:

“While the 8 Type 26 frigates (also known as the City-class) and 5 Type 31 frigates were already planned to be procured, the real surprise in today’s announcement is the mention for the first time of the “Type 32”. Early rumors associated the term with an export variant of Type 31, T4X (Type 45 destroyer replacement), the Littoral Strike Ship project (which appears to be abandoned) or even a typo. 

Naval News learned from a reliable UK source that this is in fact some sort of ‘pre program’ put in place for budgetary reasons in anticipation of a future potential ‘Type 31 Batch 2’. The source added that this potential ‘Type 31 Batch 2’ may not necessarily be based on the Type 31 design.”

Additionally, outlining how the cash would be spent, Johnson said that the funding would help “spur a renaissance of British shipbuilding across the UK – in Glasgow and Rosyth, Belfast, Appledore and Birkenhead”.

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Rob
Rob
6 months ago

Just hearing rumour of the Type 32 Frigate. Sounds like a second batch of the T31 but with bells and whistles (i.e. a 5inch gun, more Sea Ceptor and anti-ship missiles). Sounds good as the T31s will be a stop gap then sold on and the drumbeat of hulls continued at Rosyth. The ambition has to be to get up around 30 escorts to maintain the fleet at sea and not in port. Other than that this announcement probably means the rest of the MOD’s programmes being funded properly with the bolt on of cyber and some very ‘joint’ Anglo-US… Read more »

Paul
Paul
6 months ago

Overall, this is a good news. The potential for more escorts is really fantastic news in terms of maintaining a credible Carrier Strike capability.

At the expense of what though? The considerable budget hike is again, great news but it won’t fulfil everything on everyone’s wish lists. With the seeming cancellation of the Littoral Strike Ships, what does that mean for the successors to Albion, Bulwark and Ocean…?

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul

Hopefully It will be at the expense of the large portion of Foreign Aid that gets diverted. We all know this and we all see this.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Quote from the BBC website:-

Labour MP Sarah Champion, chairwoman of the international development committee, asked Mr Johnson to “quash rumours and confirm his manifesto commitment” of spending 0.7% of national income on overseas aid, “now and going forwards”.

The PM responded by telling the Commons: “I think we can all be proud of our record on overseas aid and that will continue.”

I take that as good news, as a properly coordinated Defence / Overseas Aid effort could really push the UK’s reputation and interests globally. Of course the key word is “Coordinated”…

Cheers CR

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Sarah who…? Still, apart from Keir lamely stating what’s the strategy – there will be one – Labour are on the same page, as usual with UK defence. Now, how about the SNP? Apart from (never enough) jobs for Scotland in pursuit of Indy, there’ll be no defence strategy discernable from them, CR

David
David
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Read elsewhere the intention is to reduce Foreign Aid from 0.7% of GDP to 0.5%.

Paul
Paul
6 months ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Good point and very sensible but that alone won’t pay for the cost of the pandemic, unfortunately. Every department will be feeling the pressure, luckily the supposedly “integrated” review should play into MoD’s hands when it comes to priorities.

Lee1
Lee1
6 months ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

The aid budget is highly important and should not be decreased. It could be spent better but it should not be got rid of.

BB85
BB85
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

I think we need to do a better job of diverting money out of it to fund deployments to the carribean over hurricane season and pay for a lot of Helecopters and disaster relief equipment used by the RN. Also it should pay for our QRA aircraft that track Russian bombers over Ireland. At least a squadrons worth

Andy
Andy
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

Why not use foreign aid budget to pay for mod time and resources when they do disaster recovery abroad? Would allow them to help defence but military cash could be spent on what’s meant to defending realm

Geo
Geo
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

Of course it should. Spend money if any disasters but borrowing money to send abroad is stupid

AlexS
AlexS
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

“The aid budget is highly important and should not be decreased.”

Because it is in fact a subsidy to British companies?

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

I said ” the large portion that gets diverted ” not the whole amount. Diverted to places other than intended or needed. India doesn’t even want it !

Pacman27
Pacman27
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

I agree lee what people need are clean water, medicines, food and shelter. All something the UK are world leaders in. We have worked with the Gates foundation for years on water solutions – long may it continue. we should start providing sewerage and waterless toilet systems that are built in Britain to countries that need them. Same with Power we can and should be producing solar and wind power kit for distribution uptown 50% of the UK root crop is Neve “lifted”, this is a massive waste when we could pay our farmers a fair price, turn these crops… Read more »

Sjb1968
Sjb1968
6 months ago
Reply to  Pacman27

The reputation of foreign aid has been badly tarnished despite the good work it has done. This could be improved by disqualification of any nation receiving aid if they: Have nuclear weapons or a development project. Have a space programme. Spend more on defence as a proportion of their GDP than the U.K. Are a dictatorship. Are undertaking aggressive acts towards neighbouring countries. All easy to legislate and we could allow emergency aid in the event of a natural disaster. To the man in street struggling on minimum wage that would be a good start. To be more cynical include… Read more »

Michael Dickinson
Michael Dickinson
6 months ago
Reply to  Lee1

Get shut altogether, as India has a very successful space programme, they don’t need aid, same with Pakistan, and others on the aid gravy train.

David Broome
David Broome
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul

The best replacements for the LPDs are LHDs capable of cross decking a flash ght of F35Bs allowing the RN/RM to progress expeditionary warfare

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago

Great news today, and a much welcome boost to defence. Unexpected i must say with the hit to the economy due to COVID-19. But any increase is most welcome, still be some tough choices to make in the defence review to balance the books, and out with some of the old to fund the new. But this is a very good news day for UK defence ???

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Hi Robert,

I agree. I thought we would see the axe fall at least in part on Defence given some of the comments coming out of Westminster about balancing the books recently.

Given HS2, spending on the Green Revolution and now Defence it seems this government is aiming for a New Deal approach to get the economy out of the Covid hole. I am seriously surprised they are taking this approach, finger crossed it works.

Cheers CR

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I hope it does not go down the old New Deal road. That did not work. In the end the American economy got going through war and good old rearmament and scrapping Democrat beaurocracy. Likewise our rearmament got us out of the depression in the late thirties.

Callum
Callum
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

It actually makes a lot of sense. The last recession showed that austerity and cuts during an economic downturn are the worst thing to do. The government is the only entity that can safely spend money, so it makes sense to splash out on domestic industries to boost the economy.

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago
Reply to  Callum

Currently interest rates are low so investment is not a bad idea. It’s just making sure the investment earns a return. Plus we need to get people working who would rather be on benefits. The problem we have had in our country, and others I guess, is that growing the economy seemed to be all about us all selling cups of coffee to each other.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

It’s fantastic news Robert.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Agree. Let’s stay positive.

I’m still curious what they think is suddenly not relevant.

Lots of detail to come.

Paul H
Paul H
6 months ago

Minesweepers have to be in the firing line.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul H

Agree.
Though they will be replaced by a smaller number of multi role mother Ships operating the autonomous stuff.

Ukraine, Gulf war, Afghan showed armour and artillery are also relevant, so I’m intrigued to see how they spin it.

All bring said, I’m ecstatic at the moment.

Paul
6 months ago

Interesting to see how they play it come the Review. Surely they won’t bin them all at once? Can the T26 carry autonomous gear? Assuming 31s can.

David Barry
David Barry
6 months ago

Sorry, did I miss a paid for uplift in RN manning?

Oh, no, more cuts to manpower,

Hmm – that’ll work well then.

Someone is not going to be here much longer and is just blowing smoke up the back ends of people.

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago
Reply to  David Barry

Yes, Putin’s agent H!!

David Barry
David Barry
6 months ago
Reply to  Meirion X

I’m certainly not an agent of Putin and would love to see the Army cut by the under recruited PIDs and said PIDs transferred to the Royal and RN.

7000 is an awful lot of manpower the those branches are lacking and would flesh them out nicely.

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago
Reply to  David Barry

Hi David, I do apologise if you thought I ment you.
I did Not mean you, ment it for another guy whom posts on here with name beginning with H.

Callum
Callum
6 months ago

Honestly had to check the date, I thought you’d jumped the gun on April Fools

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago
Reply to  Callum

No the news first broke last night on the BBC website…

Stunning, if delivered on.

All we need is for MoD to make proper use of the money and not p**** it up the wall a la the Arm’s £5.6b AFV programme that has delivered 0 (ZERO) vehicles!

Keeping me fingers crossed.

CR

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Indeed, I’m very cross with the army.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago
Reply to  Callum

We’ve seen at least 30 years of April Fools jokes/cuts truth be known. This is just brilliant news.

Jack
Jack
6 months ago
Reply to  Callum

I dont blame you, he is already busting out the “tracking flights from the North Pole” material 🙂

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago

Ello stranger! Where have you been? ?

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago

I was Banned mate……. Banned on an Impartial site lol.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Oh! Has no idea. Welcome back.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago

Thank you mate, I’ve not been away though, Still been a ble to see every post. I must say that you are an absolute Star to be able to take all the Crap on here and still continue to post such great stuff despite all the “In coming ” .

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

? Never give in or stay quiet.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago

It will be interesting to see what T32 looks like. It would make sense if it was the already rumoured follow on from the T31 but built with all the bells and whistles on it. I would also bet that the T31’s are up specced with some canister kit as part of this as well as the T45’s getting a surface to surface capability – which has been on and off the cards for a while now. But I think we will now see this being implemented on the fast track. Interesting titbit on the RN Twitter feed that 2x… Read more »

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago

Hi Supportive Bloke,

I agree that the T32 is most likely a T31 B2 with added kit. Whilst I would like to see the T31’s get more kit I would rather they don’t start to fiddle with the programme now that the design is fixed and contracted for.

Get them built and upgrade them later would be my preferred approach.

Interesting, point about the 2x Rivers OPV watching a Russian sub..!

Which OPV are they?

Cheers CR

Paul42
Paul42
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I think there has been a typo, and it probably means Type 31 batch 2. Babcock are investing a lot in their Frigate building factory – able to build two vessels side by side on the basis of follow on Type 31 orders. A UK Type 31 kitted out with bells and whistles would be a bonus and something we badly need! Plus of course we can still upgrade the batch 1s.

Expat
Expat
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul42

Babcock are targeting exports also. And real hope nothing gets in the way of that. It would be great to have yard maxed out on export orders.

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago
Reply to  Expat

Was not the national plan to just keep building them and bring them into service and when we don’t want the first ones, we sell them off for export. ??

Paul42
Paul42
6 months ago
Reply to  Expat

Specially if those orders were for the RN…..

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I don’t think RN will fiddle with the T31 program, as getting T31 in the water on time and on budget is critical to getting T32 approved.

I believe T31 will be up armed post acceptance. It if FFBNW a range of things so it is designed for that.

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Maybe Type 31 like with electric drive powered by Hydrogen.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago

First sentence on the MoD website pertaining to this annoucement.

Combined with the manifesto commitment of a 0.5% uplift, the total increase for Defence is a substantial £24.1 billion.

My calculations suggest this includes inflation uplift as well.

Cheers CR

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Also a couple of paragraphs down this,

An additional £1.5 billion will be poured into military research – including for the Future Combat Air System.

I take this to be related to Tempest, possibly loyal wingman component? Vague, but encouraging that we will continue to push forward with this programme.

Cheers CR

Last edited 6 months ago by ChariotRider
Rob
Rob
6 months ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Tempest is a very interesting point. It seems £billions are being sunk into this project already. Remember Typhoon? 10 years late and double the budget then we only get 5 squadrons (initially). Now things can change but we really need to ask ourselves ‘is this a project that a sovereign nation of our side can deliver?’ Because if not we need to get real before it is too late.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Yep, sanity requires we work with significant partners. We have the skills, but we need the next generation a/c to be cost-effective on numbers.

Rob
Rob
6 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Agree. I think we have Sweden on board as a research partner but nothing beyond that. So there are three options all of whom are building a 6th gen fighter:

  1. USA
  2. Germany & France
  3. Japan

I’d go for Japan this time but we really need to make our minds up before the £ billions we sink into the project become wasted once we decide to work with others.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Hi Rob,

Japan has already annouced that it intends to go it alone.

I read somewhere recently that the Tempest programme may be a way for the UK to establish itself as a serious player in 6th generation fighter development. This could be used to give us a way into the US programme, although the American Congress do not seem too keen on lettring other countries on to their latest programme.

Cheers CR

Longtime
Longtime
6 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Hi Rob
Having Sweden/Saab on board is probably more use than anyone else, US will want full control and Germany and France are are large part of Typhoon being late, financially probably wasn’t so much their fault. I was under the impression Japan have already been given the opportunity to join and wanted to go alone on their 6th gen.

Jack
Jack
6 months ago
Reply to  Longtime

And Germany would also prevent exports to certain countries that we like to deal with.

john melling
john melling
6 months ago
Reply to  Longtime

Think we need to stay away from the US for the Tempest!

Steve R
Steve R
6 months ago
Reply to  Rob

I thought Italy was joining it as well, or is that just Leonardo?

Expat
Expat
6 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

I was reading Japan is now back in the frame. MHI are prime but they’re looking for a partner.

Jack
Jack
6 months ago
Reply to  Expat

I think the Japanese are open to foreign companies sharing their expertise but don’t want a multi-nation project.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
6 months ago
Reply to  Rob

I think that is balanced against what happens with Bae if we don’t. If it loses interest in substantially being committed to this Country the effects are incalculable on the Country’s technological, employment, educational and many others aspects direct and indirect. The company recently made reference to these sort of effects on Britain by not committing to Tempest so I suspect for the foreseeable it will be supported with hopes of programme sharing easing the potential costs.

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Yes, but it started with the French who left and this slowed development I think. And if you look at the French they ended up late with the Rafale. And cut back on initial numbers.

James Fennell
James Fennell
6 months ago

Good news. I imagine no-one has worked out what design the extra frigates will be just yet, except that we need more of them. Type 32 suggests they are budgeted in the same ballpark as the Type 31s rather than the Type 26s.

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago
Reply to  James Fennell

18 inch main armament apparently.

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago
Reply to  Captain P Wash

Triples or Quads…?

Ron
Ron
6 months ago
Reply to  James Fennell

When I thought about this Type 32 frigate I looked at the issues of what is a new type or what is a new batch. A new batch is where an existing design is altered either in weapons or electronics, a new type is when there is either a completly new concept or the powerplant has been changed. With the T31s a new hull design and ship concept it would not make any sense to get a third hull design. So the T32 could be a mis speak for a batch 2 uparmed T31, or a T31 with a gas… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago

We can rely on the RN continuing to spend their allotment coherently. Probably also the RAF, though they have a tendency to want the next toy before we’ve finished contracting their last model (rather like iPhones), which I put down to impressionable youth. One can only hope that the General Staff don’t splurge their proportion with nothing to show for it this time around.

Jack
Jack
6 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

The army so rarely get the chance at ordering new equipment they make a complete hash of it up when they get the chance.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago

Just make them a T31 with extras and get them building.

As it stood, the announcements so far were just maintaining the already below minimum, despite the spin.

With a T32 on top, that helps with the loss of the 3 T23 in 2004 and the 2010 cuts of the T22 B3s.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago

We’ll take the good news for now, Daniele, though re-armament is always a double-edged sword. It’s at least an admission that world events are pushing the requirement rather than us trying to milk the peace dividend for ever, hesitant steps or otherwise.

John Clark
John Clark
6 months ago

Excellent news Daniele, as you say, let’s not waste money on yet another design, make the T32 a property tooled up ’31’.

Perhaps this increase will come in time to up gun batch 1 T31?

Excellent news and quite the surprise…

A few vailed threats to ‘obsolete capabilities’ though by the defence Secretary, so Bulwark/Albion and Challenger 2, arn’t out of the danger zone yet….

T.S
T.S
6 months ago

Fantastic and totally unexpected! Now we can play fantasy fleets with the knowledge that some of it may actually happen!
I do hope all this money means some extra merlins as well as uparming the rest of the fleet.

Ron
Ron
6 months ago

Well some good news for a change, as for T32 thats new, where was that under the belt. I suspect if it was not a type error then the T32 would be a re-engined, beefed up T31 with a 5 inch gun, extra Sea Ceptors and possibly some Mk41s or A-50s. If it was just a beefed up T31 then that would be a T31 Batch 2, but with a new power plant such as a gas Turbine and two Diesels that would be seen as a new type. However, I sometimes wonder if it would be better for the… Read more »

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago
Reply to  Ron

We need to be bolder with the Type 32 frigate concept!

Driven by a electric drive, powered by Hydrogen.

Joe16
Joe16
6 months ago

All good news, but I’m a little concerned/confused. We’re getting an uplift in the budget, which will go towards cyber and AI and all that stuff and (I believe) stand up some kind of new department to head it up. Also, apparently, the RN is getting very nearly everything on its wish list and the conservatives seem to be wanting to implement the NSS as if it’s the Bible. But what about Tempest, CR2 LEP, Warrior upgrade, Strike, fires? The RN was already arguably the best resourced of the branches, and now they are getting what must be the vast… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago
Reply to  Joe16

Joe. IDSR is delayed as the army is still deciding what’s going to happen on their side of things. It has not been ignored, and most details of IDSR are still to emerge. We will, I feel, see plenty of pluses and some minus for all services. As for WCSP, last I heard is that it might well be halved. We might end up with 1 big armoured brigade. For the army, this review needs to arm Strike correctly and put renewed emphasis on ISTAR, artillery, and air defence. For all the negative press about QEC from anti navy types,… Read more »

TrevorH
TrevorH
6 months ago

Correct I feel.

John Clark
John Clark
6 months ago

To add to Daniele’s comment. The 2020’s and 30’s will see a huge hike in demand on the Royal Navy with our world wide pivot away from Europe.

The need to expand the RN is arguably the most pressing requirement facing the MOD.

Hopefully an increase in F35 numbers and Helicopters to ramp up Carrier capability will be part of equation.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago

Agreed.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
6 months ago
Reply to  Joe16

From whats been said there is a budget hole of £12bn over 10 years, the new money £16.5bn over four years leaves £7bn not committed to new programmes, so thats £7bn possibly towards the shortfall leaving required to find another £5bn in the following 6 years.

Sjb1968
Sjb1968
6 months ago
Reply to  Joe16

Joe, perhaps someone in the MOD has looked at a map of the world and realised the U.K. is actually an island and that a real challenge to the Anglo Saxons domination of the worlds oceans that has been in place for over 200 years is coming from the east. He who dominates the sea, dominates the land. In the 20th century you could add to that the air and in the 21st, space and cyber will be critical. The U.K. is a maritime power and worldwide trading nation, not a small European focused country. From a historical perspective our… Read more »

David Bevan
David Bevan
6 months ago
Reply to  Sjb1968

Spot on. An island nation has many strategic advantages which can be exploited with a navy. A navy can protect the land and also project itself into places a large land army cannot go. I also think a strong navy is a very useful tool in a geopolitical way if your intention is to change your foreign policy from one fixated on Europe to one which is more global and likely to be more CANZUK orientated. Australia is concerned about China. A RN carrier group is a very valuable asset for them and might help us achieve greater economic, political… Read more »

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
6 months ago

This is great news but a few questions. When will it actually be true that we return to a 24 ship escort fleet? Sometime in 2040 which is not going to resolve the current perilous state of affairs. The RN needs those hull numbers now. Can the type 26 and type 31 programmes be accelerated? What of the submarine fleet. 7 SSNs is nowhere near enough despite the astute class being formidable and the Trafalgar class soldiering on. I would liked to have heard news that a batch 2 astute order perhaps with VLS for cruise missiles was being explored.… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Disagree on Aid budget. Reduce so far due to Covid, but only temporarily. It’s contribution to Soft Power is too important.

Soft, hard power and diplomacy, go hand in hand. It is how aid is spent that could be improved, not the concept.

On SSN, even if the money was there, is there capacity with Dreadnaught ramping up and the remaining Austutes? Pity, as yes more are needed.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago

Agree on keeping the aid budget as it is. Our soft power gives this country far more influence around the world than a extra couple of Frigates could. But an escort fleet of 24 would be very nice ?

RichardB
RichardB
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I’m not sure that Barrow has the capacity to build any more SSN’s until the Dreadnought program starts to ramp down in decade’s time. We would also need to carefully consider if the near £2 bn and 8 both Astute would cost would be better spent on the surface fleet. Unless T23 decommissioning dates shift right and T26 & T31 construction speeds up, the escort force will actually start to drop in numbers again soon, not increase. And there is notably no mention of any new amphib ships (LSS or otherwise) – the RNs reluctant contribution to the bonfire of… Read more »

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
6 months ago
Reply to  RichardB

The 8th astute is probably worth it on the basis that it delays the need for a successor programme to replace the Astutes by another 3 or 4 years.

Paul C
6 months ago
Reply to  RichardB

My guess is that the LPDs will not be replaced like-for-like and LSS quietly dropped. This does not mean that we will not have amphibious shipping, maybe some type of multi-role support ship to replace both the Albions and Bays.

Longtime
Longtime
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Mr Bell, Totally agree on the sub front but I do wonder if a the RN is excepting a 2 tier frigate fleet, whether we should go for a 2tier SSN fleet and have a smaller type more dedicated to intel gathering and Special forces work to free up the astutes. My preference would be to use the O boat names again. I don’t agree with hospital ships as their use is so limited, so personally I’d like to see an enlarged Argus with minimum 650 ward beds and 40-50 intensive care beds and similer levels of aviation facilities. Like… Read more »

T.S
T.S
6 months ago
Reply to  Longtime

If we get a T32, which is likely an up armed t31, then we may be looking at a three tier escort structure. More than happy for T31 to stay as a patrol frigate and not unarmed if this is the case.

Paul42
Paul42
6 months ago
Reply to  T.S

The T32 is an upgraded Type 31. When you consider that we haven’t even laid down the first Type 31, why not just build 10 x Type 32?

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

It’s far from a 14BN giveaway, soft power is equally important as hard power, and our soft power capabilities gives us real influence around the world. and it’s only 0.7% of GDP. Astute class can already fire TLAM, so no real benefit for adding VLS, apart from even more cost.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

There were hints emanating from the States at inception that, with the common missile compartment, the Columbia and Dreadnought classes would be more flexible weapon systems than current SSBN, should a need for such flexibility materialise in future.

Peter S.
Peter S.
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

It is a giveaway by a country with >£2trillion debt and rising. I would love to hear specific examples of what this expenditure does for Britain- exactly what crucial influence does so called soft power deliver? Hard coin, military capability and genuinely shared long term interests are what matter.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago
Reply to  Peter S.

Less money spent on aid means more money needs to be spent on bullets. You can look up the DFID and what it does, and where the money goes. Soft power goes hand in hand with diplomacy, and aid, so you don’t have to use the hard power option.

Peter S.
Peter S.
6 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

So no actual examples of the benefits of soft power,just as I thought. Aid spending is just post colonial conscience salving. Read Paul Theroux for a clear eyed view of the effect of aid in Africa.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
6 months ago
Reply to  Peter S.

I don’t have to provide examples, I’m sure you can use Google. Not spending on foreign aid is just another short sited view, and greatly reduces Britain’s influence around the world as a force for good.

Paul42
Paul42
6 months ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Biggest problem with ordering further Astutes is whether or not the capacity is actually there to physically build them? We still have 3 building, plus the Dreadnought and subsequent sister boats. The 4th Astute is still not in full service and has been plagued by delays and problems…….

Matt
Matt
6 months ago

OMG I remember you! Welcome back! Always enjoyed reading your posts.
[email protected]

captain p wash
6 months ago
Reply to  Matt

Thanks Matt. I’ll try to behave now i’m allowed back !

John Hampson
John Hampson
6 months ago

Now divert money wasted on the Foreign Aid budget to build, in the UK, a couple of dual purpose hospital/relief ships that could also support military operations. And fund their future manning and operations with money from the FA budget.

stephen hoyle
stephen hoyle
6 months ago

good news about the extra ships, but who’s going to crew them? no mention of more sailors? and not got enough to crew the ships we have now? so i hope a increase in defence spending, also means a increase in service personal!

Steve
Steve
6 months ago

Interesting news, i guess we have to wait to see what it actually means.

It could even be a replacement for the t31, after all the development/procurement stages are taking longer and longer, so maybe starting before the previous one has been actually created is the way forward.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
6 months ago

Absolutely bloody fantastic news and about time we started investing properly in our forces. Despite the waste of spaces our political masters have proven this time at least they have made a solid decision that the era of a thousand cuts is over.

???????????

Robert Stevenson
Robert Stevenson
6 months ago

Great news, my only concern is we don’t have enough crew and engineers for our current fleet, we have at least 1 x 23 & 1 x 45 cannot be manned due to staffing levels?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 months ago

I’d read RN manning levels are improving.

May be they will go for less RM Cdo for more sailors.

David Broome
David Broome
6 months ago

Crewing levels for the Type-26/Type-31 and Type-4XX will be far less than the Type-23/Type-45 due to automation. That allows for more hulls without crewing costs.

Andy
Andy
6 months ago

Think talking about t32 is silly with howling takes uk to make decisions and build anything I think it’s just commitment of few million to an early design project for next generation let’s not get carried away with some crazy fantasy fleet 30 frigate squadron armed with 96 missles each!

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
6 months ago

Waiting for the catch; we’ve had a decade of bad news, I can’t remember the last time news was indisputably good as this appear to be

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 months ago

Who knew, BJ is a secret “Borrow and build yourself out of recession” Keynesian. Im betting that’s why the king ( maker) has left the building. building warship now is both needed from: 1)a security point of view ( economic, resource and global warming Stressors are going to turn the next 50 years into a last alliance standing sort of geopolitical shitstorm. What’s never mentioned in the media is most of the compressive risk assessments on global warming put warfare up there with no water and food as one of the big killers as places like China will need to… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 months ago

Type 32 does sound like a batch 2 T31. But the BAE Leander hull at 110m might also be a contender. I reckon the design is oven ready – a stretched River 2 just sitting on the computer – and at 110m it could be built even in Appledore I think. Might make more sense to make the T32 the light patrol frigate and upgrade T31 to carry the 5in, more Sea Ceptors and NSM missiles. Also I recall Leander had a diesel electric drive so it might make a better ASW asset. Then the RN would have achieved its… Read more »

David Broome
David Broome
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I cannot see Leander (unless as the class name). Another hull means more logistics and training whereas the RN with Type -31 and an enhanced version as Type-32 will have three major platforms. The cost difference in a 110m v 130m vessel is just the steel but size invokes weight margins over the vessel’s life.

rec
rec
6 months ago

On second thoughts could it be a venator type or a completely new design?? Although up spec t31still more likely.

Steve R
Steve R
6 months ago
Reply to  rec

Type 31 but with a lot more bells and whistles is far more likely, yeah.

Also means that if we’re building 10 Type 31s rather than 5 then it makes them cheaper and more efficient to build. Makes export sales a lot more likely, too.

Min armament should be 5″ gun, 24 Sea Ceptors and 8 anti ship missiles, to make it a credible escort for a carrier group. Ideally a few more Merlins or Wildcats added to the fleet, too.

Rob
Rob
6 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

Agreed. Also a containerised towed array sonar would make it a top class escort.

Meirion X
Meirion X
6 months ago

The RN are also going to need a follow on to the Sampson radar. How about a triangular array of AESA panels? Each panel giving a 120 degree field of view, to be fixed to the top of a ships mask.

Geoff
Geoff
6 months ago

About time.
Let’s get on with.
Having only half-a-dozen poorly-armed active Major Surface Combatants is a joke for a sea-faring / island nation. Especially with a fishing war brewing.

Andy P
Andy P
6 months ago

Great news on another 5 frigates. Much needed of course and us lot get to speculate on what a T32 will be exactly. I’m betting it still won’t have enough guns and missiles for some on here but that’s life. 😉

While I can’t see it, it would be great if we could get a few more submarines, doesn’t have to be that big, or nuclear, in fact big and nuclear aren’t the best for doing the sneaky stuff. It would let the A boats do the deep water stuff too.

Andrew dyson
Andrew dyson
6 months ago
Reply to  Andy P

It would be good for the UK shipbuilding resilience if the new ships were built in the North East of England.

I totally agree with you about the A boats, a fleet of 10 for example would be achievable and prelude to the new class.

Upholder type 3 is also a possibility

David Broome
David Broome
6 months ago
Reply to  Andy P

BAE has the monopoly on boats and although I like the idea of conventional (AiP), armed UUAVs will be way of the future in the littoral. It also is a means to increase hulls too.

Andrew r
Andrew r
6 months ago

Hopefully they will be built in either England or Northern Ireland. Too many ships being built in Scotland at the expense of other ship yards in the uk. If the Scots get their way and get independence the ruk is screwed when it comes to ship building.

James
James
6 months ago

If we can’t crew them then there is no point in having them. I’m all in favour of extra ships but only if we can crew them.

stephen hoyle
stephen hoyle
6 months ago
Reply to  James

here! here!

Andy
Andy
6 months ago

Absolutely brilliant. It’s about time we went back to being the best navy in the world. The only way to defend against the socialist.

Roy Carey
Roy Carey
6 months ago

About time, this investment is long overdue

David Broome
David Broome
6 months ago

Welcome news but when will there be a lot 2 order for 48 F35Bs? Yet the claim that the Type-32 “will not necessarily be based on the Type 31 design” is farcical and needs to be called out. The capital settlement is four years to bridges a fiscal black hole on current procurement. The cost of a cleansheet frigate to in service would add huge cost, delay and more logistics. If the Type-31 comes in on budget , the MoD has £750m in the kitty to bring them into service that could see more GFE. Hopefully, upgraded Harpoon with Block… Read more »

Captain P Wash
Captain P Wash
6 months ago
Reply to  David Broome

To be fair though any claim relating to Type 32 is pure speculation as none of us knows anything yet.

Robert Stevenson
Robert Stevenson
6 months ago
Reply to  David Broome

Hi David I’d like the current mcmv fleet to be replaced with something more like Belgian & Dutch MCM Motherships and there armed with Bofors 40Mk4

Richard Owens
Richard Owens
6 months ago

Having been part of the build process for both T45 and T26 propulsion motors this could be welcoming news to an industry that was practically on its knees 18 months ago.

Richard Owens
Richard Owens
6 months ago

To add to earlier post about T26 and T45, forgot to mention the two aircraft carriers as well, LOTS of work done in Rugby on all these vessels.

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
6 months ago

It’s good news, but not enough. We need a wholesale rethink of funding, how and under what circumstances we give our taxpayers cash away! We either have to face facts as a nation or live within our means. The tax base has reduced from 2004 with each government wanting to show you can earn ever more amounts of cash without being taxed, if you are from the section of society that has children and are at the level where you don’t pay tax then it’s bingo! We need to stop this giveaway, live here and pay nothing outlook, if you… Read more »

Kevin Garrigan
Kevin Garrigan
5 months ago

it is Fantastic News this is the only PM who has look after the Navy. have been saying this for few years when the cold finish 1990 we should of not cut our navy we are a small country not like the 2 Supper powers who could cut they navy down we should of keep a Strong navy cos over the years we cut and cut un till we could cut no more in my eyes the cold war is back on well not that it stop Russians China USA they all Re building yes in no we will never… Read more »