A Spanish Navy vessel, the Infanta Elena, entered Gibraltar waters on Thursday.

A Royal Navy RHIB responded and escorted it out.

Local media reported that the Foreign Office says it will protest this incursion to the Spanish Government, as it does with all others.

“It says incursions are a violation of sovereignty, not a threat to it.”

Spanish actions in and around Gibraltar are frequent, a few years ago a Royal Navy vessel fired a warning flare after Spanish Guardia Civil vessel got too close to nuclear submarine HMS Talent. It is understood that HMS Talent was departing Gibraltar after having her Tomahawk missile stores replenished.

Previously, the USS Newport News, a Los Angeles class submarine, was harassed as she visited Gibraltar. Local media reported at the time that eyewitnesses said a Spanish customs boat was intercepted by a Gibraltar Defence Police vessel after it came too close to the US submarine. The report states:

“If classed as an incursion, the incident will almost certainly draw a diplomatic protest, as happens as a matter of routine with all incursions by Spanish state vessels.”

The value of Gibraltar was recently explored by one of our writers in ‘We Will Rock You – The Resilience and Importance of Gibraltar‘, which discusses why Britain, despite the complication of politics and the time, takes the cost and effort it takes to deploy and station military assets and personnel despite the damage to relations with Spain and other nations whom side with the Spanish over the issue of its sovereignty.

 

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Andrew D
Andrew D
10 days ago

That’s our Spanish NATO friends for ur 😎

Mark B
Mark B
8 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Weren’t they in charge of a British carrier a short while ago. If you are going to make an incursion surely they should have used that rather than the junk pictured. 😂

Andy P
Andy P
10 days ago

Can I be the first to cast up Ceuta and Melilla……

Cheeky rascals.

Andy P
Andy P
10 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Ha, every day’s a school day, those Spanish are bigger rascals than I thought, they’ve baggsied a few more bits of Africa that I wasn’t aware of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plazas_de_soberan%C3%ADa

This wee bit only has military in it so its not even of any real use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B1%C3%B3n_de_V%C3%A9lez_de_la_Gomera

Go figure…..

Andy P
Andy P
10 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

I added a reply to my own post about some of the other smaller ‘bits’ of North Africa that Spain were holding on to but it was ‘awaiting approval’ and now gone. There were a couple of links to wiki in it but nothing contentious I thought. I’m a bit puzzled, has this happened to anyone else ?????

Deep32
Deep32
10 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Andy, the only two posts of yours I’ve seen are the two on here above!

Andy P
Andy P
10 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Cheers for replying mate, shortly after the first one I had a nose online (as you do…) and found a bit more about the Spanish in Morocco so posted just after the first one. Don’t know if there were too many links but quick as a flash, there it was….. gone. Just wondered if anyone else had experienced similar.

John Clark
John Clark
10 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

I’m often ‘Awaiting for approval’ myself these days Andy …. I blame you, clearly a bad influence that’s led me astray….🤣🤣

Last edited 10 days ago by John Clark
Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
9 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Hi Andy, all posts containing links to outside sources are automatically set to be moderated before being posted. Thanks!

Andy P
Andy P
9 days ago

Morning Lisa, thanks for clearing that up, I’ll know from now on. 👍

dave12
dave12
8 days ago

Out of interest do you have any answers to why my comments were deleted on this thread?

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
8 days ago
Reply to  dave12

All my comments go for moderation. I thought it was HR at work intercepting them, but no.

Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
8 days ago
Reply to  dave12

Hi Dave, I can see you’ve posted 7 comments on this article, including this one to me. I don’t see any that are pending or have been removed. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]

Thanks!

Mgc1
Mgc1
9 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

I know they own a lump of Morocco opposite Gib they seem to keep quiet about! The EU never mention it either when they back Spain up …

Hispania
Hispania
8 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

I don’t know what you’re talking about

Ceuta and Melilla have been vinculated to Iberian Peninsula even before Spain existing, the were even under Al-Andalus. On the other hand, the British took a small rock in the Iberian Peninsula (legally they shouldn’t have any jurisdiction over it) taking advantage of a country’s civil war. Gibraltar was taken due to British colonialism. Ceuta and Melilla were a part of Spain. Big difference

Andy P
Andy P
9 minutes ago
Reply to  Hispania

Apologies for the (8 days) late reply Senor, I’ve just had the email prompt that you had replied. So…. if I read you right, because you’ve had it for ages and ages its should be yours, even if the locals want it back. I’m kind of struggling here to see the justification on that logic. For myself, if the people of Gibraltar wanted to be part of Spain then I’d have no problem with it returning but as it is…. 💁 Oh, thank you for introducing me to the word “vinculated” I had to look it up, every day’s a… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago

The French and German Govts called for tough measures against UK to send a message to prospective UK PM’s. Cue chaos at Dover n Calais and now Gibraltar. Coincidence.🙄

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Absolutely none.

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

👍👍

OldSchool
OldSchool
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Maybe slow UK gas exports to the EU. Sorry we just didn’t roster enough workers on for this month…..

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  OldSchool

We need to start fighting back. They’re shitting themselves about Truss getting in which is a good sign at least.

Mark
Mark
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

They really aren’t.

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Shouldn’t that be ‘we’ really aren’t. Okay slugger time will tell.

dave12
dave12
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Truss seems to be the worse option of the two , not the brightest .

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  dave12

Yep but on the plus side she pisses off Macron so swings and roundabouts.

dave12
dave12
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I don’t think its Europe we should worry about right now , don’t you think? anyway I’m quite happy to see a ethnic Indian in power , that’s is global commonwealth Britain , is that not what you Brexit sort want?

David Steeper
David Steeper
9 days ago
Reply to  dave12

You’re playing the race card ? Seriously ? I’ll take it as an admission of defeat. As a remain fan you must be used to it.

dave12
dave12
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Race card? that never came to my mind , more telling on you buddy ,I think it will be good having a ethnic Indian in power , and I’m not Woke if you are trying to pigeon hole me in that one as well.

David Steeper
David Steeper
9 days ago
Reply to  dave12

I don’t think its Europe we should worry about right now , don’t you think? anyway I’m quite happy to see a ethnic Indian in power , that’s is global commonwealth Britain , is that not what you Brexit sort want?


dave12
dave12
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Err sorry are you going reply to my comment with out repeating my comment ? I’ve made my point clear.

dave12
dave12
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Do you have a problem with a ethnic British Indian in power? your comments are telling.

Valliant76
Valliant76
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Also defo should be worried about things going on elsewhere. If all Europe don’t pull together this tyrant isn’t delt with he not going stop 🛑

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  dave12

EU, not “Europe”.

I think that depends on how they behave.

The range of fairy stories coming out of France about their failure to staff their border controls in Dover fully on the busiest weekend of the year is truly remarkable – Hans Christian Andersen would be jealous.

The latest I have seen from the French MP for Calais was “There are not enough booths”, despite the French authorities having already confirmed that they diverted staff away so there were clearly free booths.

Doormats get nothing from EuCo. That’s just the playbook, and we have to work with that system.

Last edited 9 days ago by Matt
Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Matt

Funny how Dover asked for 30 million to increase the number of booths for passport control and got 30k from Whitehall then…

David Steeper
David Steeper
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

What’s your source for that ?

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

The FT, combined the U.K. ports asked for something like 200 million for infrastructure improvements to handle increased checks, they didn’t get it.

David Steeper
David Steeper
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I should have known it would come from the FT. I’m not telling you anything you don’t know but for everyone else Google FT Brexit.
Try this one instead.
Daily Telegraph.
Gerald Darmanin: The anti-Britain, anti-Brexit minister at the centre of the Dover mayhem

Mark
Mark
6 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Well at least you didn’t use the Mail or the Express, but there’s a reason why a proven liar like Johnson was published by the Telegraph.

Jacko
Jacko
6 days ago
Reply to  Mark

How many booths would you get for 30 million then? Seems a tad excessive doesn’t it🙄

Mark
Mark
6 days ago
Reply to  Jacko

Rigging in new IT systems, new infrastructure, altering existing lanes and systems, usual procurement overheads… The reality is that now every single U.K. citizen (baring those that have EU passports) entering the Schengen Zone needs passport stamps in and out compared to before when they were waved through. That means extra time, add half a minute to each car for each ferry and it adds up, add in when Biometeric checks come in that will only increase again.

Terry B
Terry B
8 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Even the French themselves seem to be p*ssed off by Macron.

David Steeper
David Steeper
8 days ago
Reply to  Terry B

👍

DC647
DC647
9 days ago
Reply to  dave12

She be a good match for Biden imagine the conversation

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I don’t think most leaders actually care that much about British problems. Lots going on in there own countries and the EU. Are the issues at Dover caused by France? Is it not just because it’s the busiest weeks for cross channel traffic?
The eu does care about it members first and the rules/regulations that are in place as they should.
The U.K. is at the disadvantage now of being unable to blame Europe for lots of issues as all responsibilities now rest with U.K. government.
The press used to love eu bashing.

dave12
dave12
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Spot on.

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Ok so why did the French and German govts actually propose to the other EU states that they come down harder on the UK in the wake of the leadership contest ? Ahh that’s UK brexiteers playing the EU card ? So why was it reported in the French press as briefed to them by the French Govt ? If they don’t care why has France withdrawn staff since then from their customs posts at Calais ? Why after months of no incidents does the Spanish Govt start sending their warships into UK waters once more ? I understand you… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I did write I don’t think. I’ve not researched it in the slightest. I will look into what you said. I took the most obvious answer that it’s the busiest time of the year for Dover and with covid limiting channel traffic for the past 2 years the port may have not coped as well as it hoped. The man in charge at Dover said the French have been great and sent over more people to get the people through checks faster. He did also say that with the more checks now required this takes a bit more time than… Read more »

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

There has been mixed comments about some sort of disruption to the Tunnel leaving the French shortstaffed on the first day, however there’s also the report about Whitehall refusing to pay for increasing capacity in Dover for Passport control which is also an issue. A main issue I would guess is that now as Non EU citizens, every passport needs to be checked and stamped (for marking time in the Schengen area) and when you have ferry loads of families that adds up quickly. Not sure if the Bio-metric requirements have come in yet though. Basically Dover is facing the… Read more »

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Covid checks are also taking time

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  WillDbeest

That as well, but I think many underestimated how much adding a minute or two of checks to each car/bus can add up fairly quickly.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Mate of mine is /was due to fly back to this part of the world via Schiphol. Arrives at his northern UK regional airport to be told No hold baggage allowed…Hand luggage only . After a quick WTF! the national carrier that uses Schiphol explained that it cannot guarantee any luggage going into the airport will ever get out. So the current travel chaos isnt just a UK thing Its world wide. To add further to the mix the congested airspace over Germany ( ATC controller shortages/ issues and Ukr NOTAM) is backing up flights between the States and the… Read more »

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I think the French Govt is responsible for the French state employees running the French border crossing hosted in Dover since 2003 (iirc), don’t you think?

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Matt

The U.K. is responsible for them having enough infrastructure to work in though.

John
John
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Truss is as mad as a box of snakes plus her geography is shite, she’d probably send a gun boat to Grenada.

David
David
9 days ago
Reply to  John

The muppet is useless. At least the other guy can add up……

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

If she had brains, she’d be dangerous.

Deep32
Deep32
10 days ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Interesting considering we are currently sending some 3 GW of electrical power back across to France to help with their current generation issues. Don’t see too many thanks coming our way for that help!!!

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
10 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Its massively contentious issue- UK taxpayers have invested and are paying for a diverse energy market including offshore wind, new nuclear and gas power with a reserve coal fired power station still available should we absolutely need to use it. The UK sending 3GW of power to the EU- France in particular is frustrating as surely surplus supply should mean we burn less gas and/or coal and our UK citizens energy bills should come down. Its going to be hugely interesting this winter if we have a cold winter (not likely with global warming) if the EU ration gas consumption… Read more »

Bob
Bob
10 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

That will be the coal fired station we have been using most of this week.

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

It’s doing wonders with our balance of payments with France – something like 5-10bn a year of exports.

I have no problem with power exports, but we should remind Mons. Macron what a shit he is.

We should also acknowledge that our current large amount of renewables (we have around half of all offshore wind in Europe) is due to long term decisions made by Blair/Brown. The Conservatives largely sat on their butt wrt strategic planning for energy. I don’t see either Truss or Sunak fixing the need for strategy; they have not adapted.

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
8 days ago
Reply to  Matt

I don’t agree with you on the last matter Matt. I have a lifelong friend who owns a turbine installtion and commissioning company. He has never been able to get enough people to work in the job despite paying great money. His business has installed some of the largest farms out there. His business has grown year on year. Presently, they have a 200 turbine farm off the Suffolk coast. He tells me the UK industry has grown by 20% in the past 10 years. He told me the Tories dumped a lot of the smaller projects and increased the… Read more »

Terry B
Terry B
8 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I agree with everything you say, but I am expecting the EU, especially Germany, to capitulate to Putin. It’s interesting that Germany hasn’t yet committed any of the arms it promised Ukraine. One wonders, why?

Stuart Dangerfield
Stuart Dangerfield
5 days ago
Reply to  Terry B

That is just not right mate. Just yesterday Pz2000 155mm howitzers, 2 MLRS and some other gear was sent across the border from Germany and they have just restarted production of the 155mm Pz2000 Howitzer production line to build 100 all for Ukraine (they are being paid for though 1.4 billion euros)

Terry B
Terry B
5 days ago

It was correct when I posted three days ago. I picked up the comment a couple of days earlier. But nothing stands still, and so if you picked up on a later move by Germany then good. I wonder if Olaf Scholz’s earlier procrastination has changed under the reality of Russia cutting off supplies of gas, so he’s little to lose now?

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

I would presume such power transfers happen under a commercial agreement and the generating company in the U.K. is paid for its output? If that’s the case why should there be any special thanks for a commercial transaction?

Deep32
Deep32
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I would assume that you are correct on that front, but then again we don’t need to sell them any if we chose not to. After all, it’s the French that can’t generate enough electricity due to issues with their power generation from their reactors!
Personally think that it’s a tad hypocritical of them to come asking for help then giving us shit at every opportunity! Friends, I don’t think so.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Of course the U.K. could refuse to sell, not sure why a U.K. company would though and then you get into who owns the power plants etc. As for “asking for help”, again it’s a commercial relationship no different than any others.

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Yes. Interconnectors have 2 way arrangements in general.

I’d say that UK governments have perhaps not planned for a scenario of needing to apply pressure, and would be on the hook for compensating the companies.

Terry B
Terry B
8 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

C’mon, we can’t expect the EU to thank the UK for anything now. This is why we should get out fully and leave them to their own mess. And the way that the EU is heading it’s going to get worse for them and the only way this will be diverted is if Putin turns the gas back on.

Terry B
Terry B
9 days ago
Reply to  OldSchool

The EU messes up badly by relying on Russia, and good old UK goes to their aid again with gas. And what thanks do we get from those inconsiderate French? Yes, you’ve guessed, nothing.

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
8 days ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Or renewing French fishing licenses. Mind you, there’s another cross-Channel issue I would personally tie into French fishing licenses.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

No coincidence- this is project punish Britain for daring to vote Brexit- ditto the divorce bill- I see the EU and ECB are stating that the divorce bill has somehow grown from what was agreed in the separation to £45 billion (a raise of £8 billion- due to inflation- er no not sure that was agreed- I didn’t think contractually the UK had agreed to measures of the bill rising whenever the wind changes direction.) maybe their daft games would stop if one of the Spanish vessel had an accident. Get tough on the UK’s next PM- thanks EU- that’s… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Agree with every word.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Bravo.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

it really isn’t… Spain was pulling this type of thing long before Brexit and will most likely continue to do so, nothing to do with “the EU”. And yes the settlement will be affected by inflation, unless you want for example to explain to all those British people who worked for the EU institutions why their pensions are increasing inline with inflation. Blame Lord Frost and Mr. Johnson for agreeing to the deal, and the majority of Westminster voting for it, if you find it objectionable. The U.K. voted to leave and has left, it’s now being treated the same… Read more »

David
David
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Quite. Why do some people find it difficult to understand that if you leave a club, you will no longer enjoy the benefits of membership?

Jon
Jon
9 days ago
Reply to  David

Because we continue to pay for those benefits. we made a commitment to pay that is reflected in the “divorce settlement”, and the club made a commitment to give benefits. Explain why we should continue to pay but not get the benefits.

David
David
9 days ago
Reply to  Jon

Totally wrong. The payment is in respect of historic obligations, things like pension rights. It does not secure for the UK the whole gamut of benefits that flow from EU membership.

Jon
Jon
9 days ago
Reply to  David

Did I say the whole gamut? It’s not just pensions. For example, if we have to pay for Galileo because we had already commited to do so for x number of years, then it’s right that we need to pay it. But it’s wrong that we should be excluded from Galileo immediately.

The whole thing will be moot soon, as any commitments we made of this nature will come to an end, if they haven’t already.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Jon

Galileo is restricted because of the agreement when the project started, an agreement that the U.K. fully supported at the time, moreover it was only the restricted code that the U.K. would have lost access to.

As to ending the commitments the U.K. entered into, if you think the Channel disruptions are bad so far, that’s a whole other level of disruption. Not too mention breaking an international treaty within a couple of years.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Jon

That’s not what the UK signed up for, the Bill along with what became the NIP was part of the Withdrawal Agreement, then there was the extremely limited TCA (limited by the UK’s choice), but that rests on the Withdrawal Agreement being carried out. So the Bill has to be paid and the NIP that Johnson supported and used to win an election on implemented or the TCA doesn’t happen.

And even if the TCA was fully implemented, the UK’s benefits are always going to be reduced, stuff like the backups at the Ports are going to be “normal”.

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I think this will go away when the EU finually get their electronic border up and running.

Obvs France will continue to throw tantrums, but that’s like breathing with them.

Deep32
Deep32
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

You are correct in saying that Spain has been pulling these stunts for decades, nothing to do with us leaving the EU whatsoever, all to do with sovereignty issues over Gibraltar. Very hypocritical given the Spanish enclaves in N Africa, don’t see any moves to give them back do you! Yep correct we voted to leave, should have been a total clean break, and yet here we still are subject to certain EU crap including a divorce bill and EU court rulings!!! Really.! I think the boot will be firmly on the other foot when winter comes, let’s see how… Read more »

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

EU Court rulings? Do you mean the ECHR? Nothing to do with the EU and predates it, Brexit would never have changed that, suppose you could join Russia in leaving it…

Deep32
Deep32
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Yes, actually you may have a point there fella. Probably not a good idea to have a good old rant after a long tiring day at work!!!! Still, think the EU is in for a bit of a shock over the next few months, and as before the strongest (Germany/France)will come out of anything better then the rest will. Tough times ahead across the board, which has direct ramifications for NATO, and thus the UKR. A lack of strong leadership both in the EU, UK and the US will only add to the drama. Better stop now before I go… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Oh we will be leaving the ECHR don’t worry.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Good for you,have you figured out how to not break the Good Friday Agreement while doing so, since it’s part of that Agreement?

Jacko
Jacko
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Actually with the will it’s not too hard to sort out! Any goods arriving here due to go south goes through a red line for customs any due for us a green one. Of course that will require hauliers to behave but a few good license removals etc will sort out the good from the bad.

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Well, I’ve been listening to French and German MEPs pontificating about their knowledge of what needs to be done in Northern Ireland.

Of course, Ludwig from Bavaria and Francois from Marseille know all about Belfast.

In the end it will come to a modus operandi, but I think you need to remember that any EuCo claims about the interpretation of the NIP is only their version, not the canonical meaning. Stating that the current EuCo belief is what the Treaty actually says is just standard procedure.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Matt

As opposed to one of the former NI secretaries who didn’t know NI votes along sectarian lines? Or reportedly the current one that asked if he needed a passport to go to Derry?

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
9 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

The ECHR that was largely set up by the UK as it happens. Bonfire of the Human Rights – all good until you need them.

Gfor
Gfor
9 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Spanish politicians love the UK keeping Gib, it gives them a useful deflection from their own ineptitude.
Spain is a second world country masquerading as a first world. Their government focuses everything on the region of Madrid whilst leaving other areas with huge unemployment and socio-economic problems.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Gfor

Some would claim that the UK does the same in terms of focusing on London and the South more than say the North of England.

dan
dan
10 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Meanwhile Germany still funding Putin and his Orcs by buying his oil and gas…..

David Steeper
David Steeper
10 days ago
Reply to  dan

Ssh that sounds like playing into the anti EU hysteria. 😎

Richard B
Richard B
10 days ago

Is Spain still refuelling the Russian Navy?
They basically don’t give a sh*t.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago
Reply to  Richard B

I don’t think that’s happened for a few years. It was a commercial port that provided services not a naval port

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
10 days ago

Call me a hawk and an keyboard warrior and you’d be absolutely right, but I do hope someone opens up on them with a GPMG one of these days

John Clark
John Clark
10 days ago

Blimey Levi, that’s a tad strong! We are better off just ignoring them as irrelevant.

Perhaps laugh at at them over the radio, making reference to poor nav skills etc.

It will get them ‘far’ hotter under the collar, foreign minded you see….

Last edited 10 days ago by John Clark
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
9 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Pink dye mate, pink dye.

Andrew D
Andrew D
10 days ago

Now that would be fun 🤗

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
9 days ago

errr no! Bad idea.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
10 days ago

Being knocked out of the Euro’s by the Brits was too much to bear.

Nick C
Nick C
10 days ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

And the English women as well, which won’t do Spanish machismo any good at all!

Dragonwight
Dragonwight
10 days ago

Mine the perimeter.🤣

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago

Given the real international tensions ATM you would have thought that the Spanish would have been adult enough to want to show unity. But no.

This isn’t a children’s game the way the Spanish are playing it but as close as we have come to WWIII.

The only people getting succour from this disunity will be sat in the Kremlin.

Also underling the EU’s rabidly anti UK approach and rhetoric with actions isn’t going to help gain more flexibility from the UK people to bestow via the ballot box to the UK government.

Pathetic.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago

Yep, unfortunately some nations will always play games and Spain does tend to be a nation that only focuses on its immediate narrow needs no matter what is going on in the wider world.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

What I wonder is how far up the decisions to sail within the 2-3 miles that make up Gibraltar waters are made. Is it just the captain of the vessel, someone back at base or from the top of the forces or from Parliament or the leader? From what I gather the issue seems to be that Gibraltar land (apart from 800m or so) is in the treaty but water was not. I could be completely wrong tho. So silly anyway. It reminds me of making one kid sit at 1 side of the sofa and another sit at the… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Usual rules: if it is close it is a 50:50 line or historically agreed/established use.

That generally doesn’t include harbours.

Jonathan
Jonathan
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Hi monkey the sea bit is all under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the sea, 1982. So it’s not something that’s in dispute, we own it Spain just wants it back because…..
As for how high it goes, generally speaking the captain of a warship who generates an international incident only stays a captain if the powers that be support or ordered said incident…and as this keeps happening if it was not endorsed at a senior level you would imagine Spain have a lot of ex patrol boat captains.

Grizzler
Grizzler
9 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Absolutely. Of course the government know it’s not some sort of Junta running the show is it, and niave to suggest otherwise.

Jonathan
Jonathan
9 days ago
Reply to  Grizzler

Mmmm you can never be sure with Spain, it’s not exactly what you call a mature democracy.

Terry B
Terry B
8 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Became a democracy under the new Constitution in 1978. So even though Spain was in the EU it was an out and out dictatorship under Franco. Reading up on him is very enlightening re how he persecuted the peoples in certain regions. It’s no wonder that the Basques still fight for independence. And look how “democratic” Spain dealt with its leaders recently. The same with France and the Bretons. Anyone interested should try and get hold of the film “Le Cheval d’Orgeuil’ to see how France treated the Bretons to try and turn them into ” proper” French citizens, by… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
8 days ago
Reply to  Terry B

Hi Terry, yes we sometimes forget what a young thing universal suffrage actually is, for places Spain and Greece the suffered under dictatorships Within adult living memory. Even the U.K. did not have universal sufferage until 1928. We do forget that even the most mature liberal democracies are only a lifetime old, many are less than 50 years old, even Western European ones.

Steve
Steve
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

My guess fairly low down in the navy. I doubt the Spanish government would signoff on it, although they clearly turn a blind eye and don’t try and stop them.

David
David
9 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I think that’s right. There are still some unreconstructed francoites in the Spanish military. There are still people who look back on the end of the Franco regime with regret…..

Jonathan
Jonathan
9 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I would say pretty high, captains of patrol boats creating international incidents tend to end there career progression unless it’s a action supported at a senior level. Not saying their are any specific orders, but as the Spanish government insist the waters and the rock are theirs, it’s effectively endorsed from the executive of the Spanish government.

David Steeper
David Steeper
9 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

👍

Gfor
Gfor
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

When I was talking to the lads who do the interceptions a few years ago they said that they know how manybincursions they will be getting according to the time of year.
The Spanish government is so poor they run out of money from January so the boats are confined to port.

Matt
Matt
9 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I don’t understand why Gib waters have not been extended.

Exactly the same happened with Guernsey – UK/G authorities were tripping over their own feet to do things in 2018 or so they should have done a decade a go.

UK Govts are just too lackadaisical in defence of our own interests.

Caribbean
Caribbean
8 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Originally, the sea border actually enclosed part of the Spanish shoreline (the “Dry Shore”) across the bay from Gib. I think it was governed by how far the British shore batteries could reach. The British proposed, during later treaty negotiations that it be set at a point that was halfway between the shorelines. That principle was later adopted for use by UNCLOS. The same treaty (can’t remember which it was – there have been several) also re-affirmed that the land border was set along the line of old British fortifications at the head of the Isthmus (set at “two cannon-shots… Read more »

Stuart Dangerfield
Stuart Dangerfield
5 days ago

I doubt anybody tales any real notice. The Spanish have been doing things like this periodically for years. All the way through the Cold War and I fully expect they will always do it….

Steve
Steve
10 days ago

There must be a way to send a message back without escalating things too much. To somehow disable the vessel without attacking it, at least so it can’t be proved we did it, and then make a show of arresting the crew.

Clearly the crew would need to be released and sent back to Spain quickly, but would be highly embarrassing for Spain.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
10 days ago
Reply to  Steve

An EMP would likely do it but would also probably knock out all the power and telecomms in Gibs as well. I’d favour the vessel running into an underwater hazard- something like a huge fishing line that snarls up its propeller and running gear making the vessel dead in the water- than yes Gibs police turn up and arrest the Spanish crew for trespassing into their sovereign territory. It would only have to happen once for the Spanish to become absolutely epileptically angry. Which would be hilarious to see.

Steve
Steve
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Underwater cable was what I was thinking too, needs to be subtle as needs to look like an accident. It would force the Spanish government to take a position on such incursions, rather than turning a blind eye. Hopefully forcing them into a decision involving a major ally would work out for the best

Jonathan
Jonathan
9 days ago
Reply to  Steve

easy really, but its childish stuff HMR would never endorse. Cover the buggers in hot pink paint every time they cross over into our waters. That would soon put them off. Coming back to port sporting some lovey hot pink paint spats on the hull, that they would then have to paint over….

Last edited 9 days ago by Jonathan
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
9 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Mr Bell, Captain Pugwash, and myself covered that a few years ago. I’d suggested pink dye…! It was expanded to rotting chickens fired from the VLS by the captain.

I think taking the piss out of them would be fantastic. Funny for us, embarrassing for them, and nobody gets hurt.

Rather than escalating an incident, make light of it. Their antics change nothing.
That or just continue what we’re doing.

If we really want the EU pissed off with us daft ideas like sinking them will do just that.

Airborne
Airborne
10 days ago

EU muppet’s playing politics due to our current issues with Government and the lack of one!

Mark
Mark
10 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Not really, this has nothing to do with internal Tory politics.

Airborne
Airborne
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

So new incursions into Gib waters seem to correspond with the current lack of solid UK Government, an advantage not to be utilised by the Spanish? Er, ok…..

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Since it happens on a fairly regular level and achieves nothing of note other than internet posts, yeah it’s a giant nothing that has nothing to do with the Tories being the Tories, world events and foreign policies don’t have to have anything related to domestic U.K. politics.

Airborne
Airborne
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Disagree, more of an opportune moment for the Spanish! And I am aware it happens often, and of course world events can and do happen to coincide with any countries internal events! Small scale or large, effective or not it happens.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

If the Spanish took advantage of every bit of political instability in the U.K. they would have been parked in Gibraltar for the last 6 years…

Airborne
Airborne
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Fair point!

Stuart Dangerfield
Stuart Dangerfield
5 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

They happen all. The time and have done for decades

David John Bevan
David John Bevan
10 days ago

Bringing a ship that ugly so close to British Territory it probably deserves to be sunk just for aesthetic reasons. My god look at it…cant even make the funnels stand up straight.

Last edited 10 days ago by David John Bevan
Bob
Bob
10 days ago

😂

Rob N
Rob N
10 days ago

Gib was given to the UK by Spain under treaty of Utrecht – they gave it to us…. but since then the claim it is theirs. I must conclude from this that Spain does not abide by international agreements.

As a result we should fight fire with fire. If they wish to piss us off we should return the compliment…

We should permanently base an SSN there plus a frigate and destroyer. Perhaps frequent vissits by a carrier.

Trevor
Trevor
9 days ago
Reply to  Rob N

The terms of the treaty of Utrecht ceded Gib “in perpetuity” which appears to go through rubbish translation software akin to the SNP definition of “for a generation”.
Also, the same treaty ceded Sicily to Italy, but Idon’t see any Spanish naval vessels challenging that sovereignty and demanding the return of Sicily to Spain. Funny that.

Caribbean
Caribbean
8 days ago
Reply to  Trevor

But if we decide to sell it, the Spanish Crown has the right of first refusal.

Caribbean
Caribbean
8 days ago
Reply to  Rob N

The same Treaty also guaranteed the independence of the Catalans – I wonder how that’s going?

Marked
Marked
10 days ago

Wouldn’t it be a shame if an old merchant ship “inconveniently” collided with it causing millions of euros of damages…

What a shame that would be.

OldSchool
OldSchool
10 days ago

Maybe just exclude Spanish companies from bidding for UK defence contracts.

RobW
RobW
9 days ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Bang goes anything from Airbus made in Spain then…..A400M for instance. Let them play their silly games, that’s all it is.

jason
jason
10 days ago

Hard retaliation is needed to everybody who tries bully us!

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
10 days ago

Sink it – this is why all RN warships should have the NSM. Or at the very least, torpedo tubes

Mark
Mark
10 days ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Can you fit NSMs onto the Cutlass boats?

Jon
Jon
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark

LOL. We were working up our new ship and the missile just went off accidentally, coincidentally striking the only Spanish ship in Gibraltarian waters.

But seriously. Who gives a stuff? They leave when asked by a bloke on a RIB. Let’s not get this out of proportion.

Mark
Mark
10 days ago
Reply to  Jon

Oh I agree with not letting it get out of proportion, some of the other posts however…
Thank god the internet wasn’t around during the Cod Wars, who knows what would be posted then.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
10 days ago
Reply to  Mark

We would of haddock, there is no plaice for trying to show who has the biggest pollocks out of the grouper.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
10 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

We need to stop carping on about the past

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

What name are fisherman’s wives all called?
Annette

Terry B
Terry B
8 days ago
Reply to  Mark

A load of codswallop, perhaps?

David
David
9 days ago
Reply to  Jon

Yup. Treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
9 days ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Oh dear David!

Rob N
Rob N
10 days ago

The Spanish gave the UK Gib with the Treaty of Utrecht. Now they claim Gib is theirs. You cannot trust a nation that goes back on that it has promised.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Rob N

What if they claimed it was only in “Specific and Limited Ways”? I mean the UK seems happy to do that on something they just signed?

Rob N
Rob N
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I think this is a bit different… they gave us Gib outright. The NI EU deal is a trade agreement and dies not involve seventy.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Rob N

No it isn’t a Trade Agreement, the Withdrawal Agreement is a formal International Treaty, no different than any other, including the Treaty of Utrecht, and from memory some of the MPs that were against the UK policy warned of such unintended consequences.

Jacko
Jacko
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

The withdrawal agreement is not the same as the NIP that is to do with trade.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  Jacko

No the NIP is part of the Withdrawal Agreement, Trade was in the TCA that came after the WA.

David Flandry
David Flandry
9 days ago

I said it, didn’t I say it? We need a warship with 15-inch guns to deter these people.

criss whicker
criss whicker
9 days ago

just out of interest, as Theresa may gave an unconditional guaranty to defend Europe. could this, not be withdrawn and a money price be demanded from the EU for British military usage as this may be some leverage, after all what so called allies treats its friends like they treat us, i presume not to include NATO missions , just these bits that help the EU to abuse our kindness.
just an honest thought.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  criss whicker

EU outside of NATO is basically Ireland, Austria and Malta now… What exactly do you think would change?

criss whicker
criss whicker
9 days ago
Reply to  Mark

one can but try,
this simply cant continue surely.

Mark
Mark
9 days ago
Reply to  criss whicker

Why? I’m going to take a wild bet and say stuff like this has been going on since before the Internet existed, it doesn’t really affect anything day to day for Gibraltar.

Kevin Doherty
Kevin Doherty
8 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Maybe if they handed back Gibralter to it rightful owners Spain there would be no incursions.

Sandy
Sandy
9 days ago

Is this the same Spain that we’re going to be building Typhoon fighter jets for?
Yet, they’re continuously sabre rattling over Gib.
Is it wise to be arming them with something that could conceivably give them air superiority.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
8 days ago
Reply to  Sandy

Sabre rattling. It’s a lone vessel. Even if they repeat 100 times over the years what does it change?

Air superiority? They’d just drive in if they really wanted to, what’s to stop them?

Taking the rock itself is a different matter.

Caribbean
Caribbean
8 days ago

What’s to stop them? In my experience, the traffic jams!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
7 days ago
Reply to  Caribbean

😏😆 I was last there 38 years ago things must have deteriorated.

Stc
Stc
9 days ago

What shortsighted recall of history we have. Gibraltar was GIVEN to Britain by Spain and Britain in return gave up claims to Florida and left it to the Spanish to occupy. It’s an international agreement. According to our woke pro EU culture it’s not okay for the UK to change a few rules on checking goods in NI, but it’s ok for Spain to tear up completely an entire international agreement. So Spain can have Gibraltar back provided the persuade the US and Florida for Florida to leave the US and become the 5th part of the UK. Good luck… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
9 days ago
Reply to  Stc

Very interesting. I hadn’t heard that. I’ve not read the full Utrecht treaty.
Just cause Spain breaks rules it doesn’t make it ok for the uk to be the same. It’s better to be good and right than wrong and a scumbag.
The solution to the Irish EU issue is a border across Ireland. Hard/soft, barbed wire, electronic, virtual, border. Whatever will work and keep both sides happy. I can’t see any other working option. Only other option is Uk does everything the way the EU members do to allow trade to flow freely.
Both are difficult.

Paul.P
Paul.P
8 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Since by virtue of 40 years of EU membership we comply with EU standards on plants, food and pharma that agreeing to continue to mirror EU standards would take about 10 seconds and remove all barriers to trade. Why would you want lower standards? Nothing wrong with European food, except possibly Germany. And the only problem with that is that 3 days later you are hungry again 🙂

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
8 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Sounds sensible but it won’t happen. It would be like admitting defeat in brexit.
It’s funny countries outside of the eu try very hard to use there standards and rules with an eye on joining and others want to leave.
The old thinking of the grass is always greener on the other side. Which it often isn’t.
Maybe talks can start with what we can work together on to benefit all sides and what can’t be worked on.

Paul.P
Paul.P
8 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I’m all for a few symbols to reinforce our history and cultural identity; traditional beer in pints, cricket pitch etc but not at the expense of creating unnecessary bureaucracy and an entire parallel universe. What next, Whitworth spanners?