New data from the Ministry of Defence (MOD) reveals that the timeline for the New Medium Helicopter programme has been extended by three years, while the project’s whole-life cost has also seen a notable increase.
The data, extracted from the MOD’s annual report on major projects for the financial year 22/23-Q4, highlights the challenges and revisions encountered in the project’s journey.
In the MOD’s latest update, it was disclosed that “compared to financial year 21/22-Q4, the project’s end-date at 22/23-Q4 increased from 2028-07-07 to 2031-09-30.” The primary reason for this extension is “further analysis on the programme schedule” and amendments made during the Ministry of Defence’s Annual Budget Cycle 2022.
Simultaneously, the Whole Life Cost, compared to the previous financial year, has seen a substantial uptick from £1,172 million to £1,329 million. The MOD cited this increase was mainly “due to the programme receiving an uplift to safeguard the capabilities that the New Medium Helicopter programme plans to deliver.”
The Infrastructure and Projects Authority’s Delivery Confidence Assessment rating for the programme, however, remains at Amber. This rating is primarily linked to “the delay in securing the Outline Business Case approval.”
Despite this delay, the MOD states that “significant work is ongoing to secure approval which will enable the main part of the New Medium Helicopter competition to proceed.”
The New Medium Helicopter programme aims to rationalise five rotary wing requirements through the procurement of a single new medium lift helicopter, a move that is expected to * “maximise commonality allowing improvements in efficiency and operational flexibility.”*
Has somebody changed the spec or is it just the fact they have no money?
“” The primary reason for this extension is “further analysis on the programme schedule””” Well that’s a new way to define, passing the buck onto the next government, allowing the Tory party to slag off the new government for not equipping the military with the kit it needs. What makes this even more damning is this present government dithered in the first place and extended the life of the Puma, when it should have been replaced. (Not only that but due to a loss of capability we sent them to Romania to be upgraded) Looking forward, I feel that whoever wins the… Read more »
Precisely.
I am afraid this is the same crap that happened to FRES: A miraculous AFV that can go into C-130 and replace tanks.
For me it is clear that the ideologues of futurism in MoD want a V-22/V280 type so they are dragging their feet. But as with FRES reality is always stronger than futurist fiction.
But the heavy costs of that non choice remain.
Not sure why you slag of the logical choice of the V280, which beats any rival platform on every available metric, such as; range, speed, load capacity, fuel consumption etc.
There is nothing logical about it.
Price, cost use, too big size, maintenance, altitude limitations, not operational plus the certain American complexification.
V280 is a better bet than a V22 as they are never going to purchase V22 as £-per unit over £-per mile is higher than a C130s, RAF have no desire on V22 and neither does the RN, Looking at what the USA replaces the BlackHawk, if you didnt you would have to be stupid.
Although the v280 is very good and a capability that would be great to have it’s not really in the traditional sense a medium lift rotor and cannot and does not fulfill the same requirements that a lot of the platforms it would be replacing need to undertake ( some of these are relatively small 12,000Ib fully load rotor as the small end of medium lift) as a few of these are not very large rotors. I would like to see the V280 taking over the role of the Merlin’s in the future, after all it’s got a 30,000+In take… Read more »
Not only can’t we wait, we can’t risk what happened to the multi-role vehicle (protected) programme, where around 2016, we were going to piggy back on the US JLTV order, getting a great price. Until six years later when we weren’t, leading to yet more delays and indecision.
There’s a good chance we wouldn’t get V-280s for the army until the early 2040s, making them the candidate to replace HMH if we get a move on and buy those now.
JLTV was not light though. It was the size and weight of a 20 foot iso container.
Nor is V-280 medium weight. What’s now a corvette would have been a frigate 20 years ago. Times change. I’d be willing to stick a tenner down on the Oshkosh making a Boxerlike comeback,
V280 is medium lift ? Merlin is Heavy Lift based on what’s available now. and that Merlin fleet only has 7 more years. you need to have covered your bases
Hi Jon, no anything below 50,000Ibs is considered medium lift anything below the 12,000ibs mark is intermediate and light. Heavy lift is 50,000Ibs and above.
Price? Availability?
We need numbers, not 5 Gucci platforms with 20% availability.
People keep repeating this nonsense. All navies in developed countries are smaller than they were during the post war era, when are people going to stop living in the past!
Wait until all the helicopters go out of service and then there’s no need for a replacement
Sounds like a real plan.
You’ve been reading internal treasury memos, haven’t you
Well there’s a surprise. An MOD procurement project delayed and over budget.
Sheezus when will these guys learn. Set a budget, set a project plan and deliver.
It comes as no great surprise, as the projected internal costs for an exquisite, all singing, all dancing bespoke gold plated UK built batch of 40 Helicopters becomes unaffordable within the projected budget, it becomes 25, the reduced numbers procured puts the unit price through the roof and the whole lot gets binned with a small additional order of Chinook to replace them and a continuation of the lease contracts for twin Hueys….
Same old sh*it, different day chaps …
We called it. How much is….shhhhh BH?!
We certainly did mate, unfortunately what the RAF and Army actually want isn’t of the slightest importance!
No BH, just spin and BS Daniele, followed by sweet FA!
This reminds me of the French FREMM procurement disaster.
Reduced from 17 to 8 to cut costs, the 8 FREMMs ended up costing about the same as the 17…
They should learn that such cost-cutting is rarely a good choice.
I think that continuing to buy and then sell them is a better plan…
Wait, I thought only the UK suffered from such problems, the BBC and our Mexican/ Russian trolls told me😀
There are “funny” things going on with supply in armies around the world, and probably with everyone.
Is that true??
I’m sorry for you, as I believe you’re our French contributor here? Apologies if I have that wrong.
But on the other hand, I’m delighted! It is not just us!!!
Yes, it’s even worse, since the contract for 17 FREMMs was 6.5B€ and ended up at 7B€ for 8, unit costs having doubled after the cancellation of the other units.
Initially, the contract was for a ship costing less than 300M€, and it skyrocketed to 670M€ because of the government, not the industrial… (at least, not only).
It’s one of the most disastrous programs, even though the ship is good.
Don’t tell people what’s going on in France, this can only happen in the U.K. Everything everywhere else must be better. You’ll have people having heart attacks, it must be better in France!
More nonsense…..how does our rotor force compare with our peers. Not interested in actual facts.
Emm, what’s the question, what’s nonsense?
Easy to say when very few of us understand the complexity of procurement. And that the vast majority of MOD projects are delivered on time, and within budget. But we don’t hear about those, because good news doesn’t generate comments.
Hi Robert, I take issue with this, we post both the negative and the positive. It is not my aim to “generate comments”.
Firstly – keep up the great work George.
Secondly – It genuinely would be a benefit to persuading the British public that MOD isn’t just flushing their cash down the toilets if an article tabulating the procurement successes (NLAW, CAMM and loads of small but essential projects) could be produced?
I dare say the MOD press office would be very happy to assist?
It would also assist the (mostly) good people at Abbey Wood who were very unjustly blamed for some very silly political decisions (can down the road type) by the Defence Select Committee.
Exactly. Some keep blaming the DES staff, just trying to do their jobs.
Hi DM, I wonder how these costs might play out with a bog standard “off the shelf” Backhawk buy? Surely there must be some economies of scale piggy backing off the Americans?
Not a chance mate! Westlands jobs remember. Maybe they could be built there under licence like what was planned in the 80s.
That the military need around 40, and that they have wanted, for years, Blackhawk, is of not the slightest importance to politicians.
aah yes – well said , Westland jobs. I see your point.
yes but Westland dont have a work force of capacity to manufacture these in the UK. unless parts are shipped from the cheapest Italian run factory in Asia
Problem is it is sometimes very difficult to buy a purely off the shelf platform. If you have to, for eg, bolt on a uk radio to allow it to talk to the uk army or a widget (which the US may insist on a military exemption for) that is officially required to fly in euro civvie airspace etc, it is no longer off the shelf. Even a small hardware change like this may mean you have to modify core software, databus messages and re-certify safety critical bits. At this point it may be significantly more expensive than the brochure… Read more »
Hi Dave – thanks for the detailed reply, good insights. I should have clarified I was referring to the airframe, engines and primary control suite. Totally accept there will be a need for customisation re local requirements.
👍
But the bad news does set the comments section alight.
Keep up the good work George,
Most of the mainstream media ( not uk defence journal) and especially left leaning US and UK publications in conjunction with Russia, Indian, Chinese propagandists constantly jump on any negative UK news story.
The public narrative is that we spend £50 billion a year on forces incapable of fighting or whipping their back side without US involvement. This narrative is a threat to national security now and needs to be challenged.
“incapable of…whipping their back side without US involvement.”
Whatever floats their boat as long as everyone consents.
👍
The issue is that things are reported without “context” and taken to be representative. So, we never hear of comparative failures of other programs and commentators assume there are none and that ours most be the worst and most incompetent.
Whilst this site is better than most, the lack of contextual comparisons does leave a void, which is often filled by nonsense.
Hi Robert. I imagine much of the increase for this project is attributed to inflationary pressure. I don’t think the MOD can be hold to blame for this. The sad reality is we are likely to see more of this in the future. I am concerned how this will play out under a Labour governments.
Agree procurement of complex stuff is not easy and sometimes it’s better to delay and get it right that order a 15,000ton monster destroyed that you only ever build 10% of the planned number..because they were just to expensive and not what you needed.
This issue come with the political delays…this costs money and time..but the government alway manage to plop the political delays onto the laps of the civil service.
Or it’s because Major Projects is where most of the delays lie, and when a Major Projects report comes out, the slew of bad news hits us in a lump. Mechanised Infantry (Boxer, I think) has moved out of green into amber as has Defence Infrastructure, so we could be getting stories on those too. I count 2 out of 48 non-exempt Major Projects for the MOD in the green, Martlet and the Fleet Solid Support ships. This means to me either something is very wrong with the procurement or the reporting or both. Probably both. Given the current position… Read more »
Bunch of clowns. “Let’s replace soldiers with AI ” 🤡
“due to the programme receiving an uplift to safeguard the capabilities that the New Medium Helicopter programme plans to deliver.”
This sounds like the MOD is taking out some kind of insurance policy. I would be interested to know what capabilities are at risk of not being available when we want to incorporate them into the helicopters. Are we paying for some company which would otherwise cease production to stay in business until we decide to start building these machines?
GOLD PLATING REQUIREMENTS = DELAY = INFLATION = FEWER AIRCRAFT.
Sorry for shouting but how can Poland decide to fairly quickly decide to buy the AW149 and AW101 and we can’t do likewise. BW said it last week 80% is good enough.
When you look at what they are replacing this isn’t exactly rocket science.
Inward investment wherever possible actually helps to grow the economy and when our defence budget is based on a % of GDP that is a double whammy.
Yes and no,
Inward investment helps grow the economy, yes
Does that actually help the ring fenced pool of money that’s the defence budget, no.
Is the job of the Ministry of Defence to support the economy or actually procure equipment to defend the nation??
The teeth of the dog should be at the sharp end of procument, but it’s the wagging tail calling the shots!
Well accept in certain circumstances and if we can build an equivalent product here and at a reasonably comparable cost the answer has to be yes wherever practicable. The MODs job is to ensure the Defence of the Realm and the economy is what provides its budget. If there is one key lesson from the Ukrainian war it is that we as a Nation have to be able to provide the majority of our own equipment to avoid ITAR issues. France actually has a strong buy French policy and 90% of their kit is sourced in France. If you want… Read more »
I agree to a point, i.e Ships and Subs and especially Tempest. But you have to admit ( using your example) if the UK developed and manufactured an MBT and ordered 148 of them, the unit cost would be absolutely astronomical! Our Helicopter industry is really smoke and mirrors jingoistic spin in the shape of a AW149 in a Union flag wrap! In reality, somone left the gate open and that horse dissapeard years ago, probably in a Romanian Horse meat factory by now… Wildcat was the last throw of the dice for UK helicopter design, it was poorly conceived… Read more »
“maritime deployable” AW 149 is in service as Mistral LHD helicopter for Egypt Navy. AW189(civil version) is in use in UK Coast Guard and in service in Falklands.
It is, but there’s a world of difference between operating a helicopter from a deck in a relitivly benign environment, to operating genuinely maritime capable helicopter, physically designed for the environment I will guarantee the Egyptian Navy only operate by day, in extremely benign sea states. Take a look at the 149, its centre of gravity appears relitivly high, that makes it dangerous on a pitching deck. Same reason that the Puma only operates from flight decks in emergencies only. The Mod prohibit its use from flight decks, because it’s top heavy design is actually considered dangerous in most sea… Read more »
Puma H225 top of main rotor 4,60m,
S-70i 3,76m
AW149 4.04m
no one shoots @ the Coastguard. Show Pony related to a VIP air taxi. like taking a Ferrari into a ploughed field
Isn’t the RWUAS three ton drone for the Navy being designed at Yeovil? I don’t think the parrot is quite dead yet.
Possibly. But Westland always had limited design capability.
Wessex, Sea King were all Sikorski designs. Lynx is maybe the only helicopter fully designed by Westland.
That’s interesting Jon, so still a glimmer of life perhaps, is it being designed in Italy though?
I’m under the understanding that Yeovils design department is no more?
The announcement states it’s UK, also it’s the third phase of the programme which has been UK led. While the earlier phases adapted the Italian Solo, this was described as being a clean sheet design. I’m inclined to take it at face value as a UK led and designed project.
In 2021, Leonardo kicked this off alone (as I recall it). It later partnered with Northrop Grumman who make the Fire Scout. Then in 2022, the MOD finally kicked in funding for phase 3 of the RWUAS programme.
That’s good, lets hope its cheap enough to be an exportable commodity then…
If it forms the basis of the Fire Scout D, which is unlikely but not impossible, the dead parrot will become a blazing phoenix. I won’t hold my breath over it, just cradle a tiny seed of hope.
The most damning aspect of this all is the MOD and RAF had concluded that the Puma was coming to end of life and needed to be replaced in the mid 1980s! This leading to Westlands to getting a license production deal for the Blackhawk from Sikorsky…the Peace dividend and Options for change put paid to any idea of replacing the Puma in the 1990s as should have been done (with Blackhawk). On a side note another thorn in the side of any attempt to getting a Medium helicopter replacement was the EH101 a type that many ill informed people… Read more »
What a missed opportunity that was, had we started manufacturing Blackhawk in the 1990’s, then Westlands would have had a good steady flow of work, builds, repair, overhaul and upgrades of a huge fleet of international customers as a regional hub. The RAF would likely have replaced their first gen models with new build M’s. Poland have lifted that prize and good for them quite frankly. It’s interesting re the Melin, again excellent Naval helicopter, but wanting as a tactical transport for the RAF, not particularly wanted and forced on them by the government. History sort of repeated itself with… Read more »
Didn’t Tarzan resign over all that?!
I believe he did mate….
OMG, are we still in the death throes of the Westland Affair? How long does the stench of a screwed up decision linger?
I’m afraid so, the carcass is still on life support Jon, in an Italian Hospital!
AW159 Wildcat is not exactly doing well on the export market, I always felt it should have been a larger clean sheet design than a warmed over Sea Lynx. The Lynx made sense when countries were replacing tiny helicopters like the Wasp and frigate/destroyer flight decks and hangers were tiny. These days when a country buys a new frigate or destroyer and even some Corvette/OPV they put a flight deck and hanger on it big enough for Seahawk or NH90. When your ship has that amount of room why bother with Wildcat?! MH-60R is currently getting the lions share of… Read more »
It amazes me how blinkered folks are regarding transport helicopters, the Merlin was certainly found wanting in Afghanistan, far to fragile due to its composite construction, and excessive maintenance requirements.
Frequently grounded awaiting repairs.
Chinook and Black Hawk flew into a hail of bullets again and again, got patched up and straight back into the fight!
The AW149 is no different from the merlin in this respect, an overly complex, fragile composite helicopter….
AW 149 overly complex haha. It is in heavy use in civilian market and it is derived from 1000 sold AW139. Do you think a civilian helicopter for oil platforms, SAR etc is “overly complex” ? From General Eletric November 18, 2021 LYNN, Mass. – A Bel Air Aviation AW189 helicopter has surpassed 5,000 engine flight hours operating with GE’s CT7-2E1 engine. Since entering service in November 2014, this AW189 has had zero engine shop visits and stands as the AW189/CT7 fleet leader in total engine flight hours. “Reaching 5,000 engine flight hours with zero shop visits is an amazing illustration… Read more »
Be sure to point out the UK spec AW149’s that are developed and with a proven track record🤔 I’ve looked, odd thing is I can’t find any….. If an oil and gas platform rocked and rolled like the pitching deck of of a frigate, you might need to be resurrecting Red Adare and his asbestos mittens, you can obviously see the difference there Alex, i.e an absolute world of difference! So you would build 25 ‘extremely’ expensive helicopters that can’t be deployed to sea when needed? Fragile helicopters that get grounded with bullet holes and require specialist repairs? Why not,… Read more »
Is that an argument to cancel Tempest? And you don’t know what is fragile or pricey or require specialist repairs. Only a field comparison will show the advantages ties and disavantages. “The deadly helicopter crash that killed three members of the Idaho National Guard last week was just the latest fatal aviation mishap involving a UH-60 Black Hawk to strike the U.S. military in recent months. In the last year and a half, five Black Hawk crashes across the United States have resulted in the deaths of 12 U.S. service members, according to aviation mishap data reviewed by Task &… Read more »
“Is that an argument to cancel Tempest?” Emm, ok, I didn’t think I have to draw a line between Tempest and a medium support helicopter, but go on Alex I enjoy a laugh…. So,for you to draw the conclusion that Tempest is relevant to this discussion you have to make a couple of deductions. A, it will have a cargo hold and ramp B, will be capable of vertical landing and will in fact land in the heart of a fire fight to load/ unload troops and undertake medevac missions as well as deep strike and air defence, plus electronic… Read more »
Agree with you completely John. Alex you mentioned that “the Black Hawk manufacturer knew that some of the aircraft’s components were “unfit, unsafe, unairworthy and defective”. Does it explain why these components were in the state that they were and what did the manufacturer do about it? Over the many years that I have spent in aviation we have regularly identified aircraft components/systems that were unfit, unsafe and defective, resulting in an unairworthy platform. None of those platforms were BH. The maintain regime was in place to identify issues in most cases, sadly not all. It has to also be… Read more »
Absolutely spot on mate (said way better than I could), exactly what my mates say, their universal option of Merlin was its a fragile piece of sh*t and not up to the rigors of operational use in a harsh hostile climate. Merlin was envisaged as a Military helicopter, but primarily a naval type, a task for which its ably suited and adapted for. The modified tactical transport variant has 100% been found wanting, as many a QRF force could attest to in Afghanistan, as they ran up the ramp of a patched up Chinook or jumped into a US Army… Read more »
There were numerous occasions when I and a few other lads would be sitting on the HLS at our PB waiting for a pick up, either to head back to Bastion or to another FOB or PB. A Merlin would rock up and 1 or 2 of us wouldn’t be able to get on. The thing was practically empty but because of the amount of additional armour that had been added it didn’t have the performance to take much in the way of a load, the very reason that they were almost never used during any Heliborne assaults. As you… Read more »
Merlin see NH90 and weak arsed European design cultures from the late 90s
Comet/Concorde/737 Max all had issues at some point
ok will answer this with a simple comparison. Sea King v Merlin in AEW format. Sea King a rushed development costing £250.00 and box of tea. Over Crowsnest. the strain on the original location of the bag on the Merlin led to failures on the Carbon built airframe. Which need main facility repairs, “Yeovil” Merlin battle damage in Afghanistan need main factory support to bond a patch repair or panel replacement. Accidents happen that’s life, do you work in MOD procurement as you must make some crap choices daily, i guess the choice over lucky charms and sugar puffs is… Read more »
Again no fucker shoots at it, does your dad work in Yeovil ????
This needs cutting and pasting for future deployment.
Sums it all up.
MAKES THE MOST SENSE, but i fear someone in Yeovil would like to waste more taxpayers money buy there kit, rather than one assembled in Poland. the feedback from the forces they want a proven platform, not a show pony with lipstick. Battlefield helicopters get shot at, repairing carbon fibre n glass in field didn’t work with Merlin. Black Hawk would lead you to replace Merlin with BH.
A better balance between Quality and Quantity. I’ve been suggesting it for years and will continue to do so. Just buy something that won’t fall out the sky and is “good enough”
Totally, they can’t help gold plating everything….
Am I missing something here ? Firstly I mentioned the AW139 and AW149 and you have completely fixated on the AW149 (which is probably too big). Secondly none of the designs being considered are optimised for regular deployment on a ship.Yes the Black Hawk S70 can be marinised using features of the SH60 such folding rotors and tails, which the Army don’t really need. In fact adding that little nugget is the definition of Gold Plating a requirement when it is to replace the Puma as a land based workhorse. You seem to concentrate on the Sikorski Black Hawk which… Read more »
People are probably fixating on the 149 because that is what Leonardo have put forward for NMH, 139 isn’t even in the running for NMH.
Read this regarding the 4 bidders. One of which is the MH-139 Grey Wolf.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britains-new-medium-helicopter-project-continuing/
Or this from Boeing.
https://www.boeing.com/defense/mh-139a/
How the hell that works as Boeings offering is beyond me.
ABCRodney, thanks for this, I wasn’t aware, I thought they had either withdrawn or had been dropped, very interesting.
AW 139 do not have the crash protection and military specs of AW 149. Albeit it sold more than 1000 for civilian and military market, and as you said defeated the Blackhawk and Bell proposals for USAF nuclear missiles services.
I don’t think Aw 149 is too big it is the ideal size for a squad. it is a bit shorter than Blackhawk but the cabin is better designed so can take more troops. It has also a small cargo compartment.
Or we could build V-280 under licence.
Exactly Daniele, never heard of one crashing!
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/60/28/f660282ed75260abc1bee62848bf9cc0–christmas-pics-father-christmas.jpg
😀! Though that looks like it only carries 4 dismounts!
But very accurate in delivering its payload down chimmnys!
agreed lets buy a proven platform, a workhorse and not a show pony
Looking forward, Poland is just currently selecting what is the best option available now. and face replacing there old systems anything is better. Look around in the Medium lift and its the next 30 plus years. and combining 5 existing platforms into one. Merlin out of service 7 years, maybe one platform sat in the middle of the 2 could be better. AW101 doesn’t fit when you have Chinook. was why RAF pushed them out to RN.
AW101 was totally the wrong size fit for the Army but as an ASW platform they are the optimum size. The Airbus NH90 was an attempt to build an adequate ASW platform but smaller than the Merlin and how is that going ? IMHO they should be speaking to the other AW101 customers about a 2nd generation of new builds.
But also go for a Medium Helicopter with as much commonality as possible hence a AW139 / 149
Look on the bright side. At least we haven’t capability gapped them yet.
The crystal ball tells me an additional order for 10 Chinook plus a continuation of twin Huey contracts,
another dependable old workhorse that just works!
That’s what I expect to happen now, the money isn’t there for the wanted gold plated solution, so they no doubt wave the magic wand and make the problem dissapear!
The Bells are already gone mate, replaced by Puma.
There are 14 ER Chinook that were deferred a few years back on cost grounds but they are for SF, not a suitable MH replacement.
Gotcha, trust us to get shot of perfectly capable asset!
Hi DM
Any insight on how many of the Chinooks are currently operational? I imagine a fair few are in storage.
I understand, and I may be wrong, that of a fleet of 60, 38 are in the “forward” fleet, that is assigned to the Squadrons – 7,18,27, the OEU, 22 Sqn, and the Joint Puma/Chinook OCU, 28 Sqn. Some of the older types are being retired, or have already, like the legendary BN, reducing the fleet to 50. There are also the14 ER examples, no doubt for JSFAW ( 7 Sqn ) which we deferred due to budget issues, and there are also, reportedly, problems at the Americans end in Philadelphia. I’d expect them to also replace like for like… Read more »
Thanks for the insight DM. I had a rough working number around 40 units, so your insights tally up nicley.
Bells are no more. Temporarily replaced by Puma in Brunei, as have the Griffons in Cyprus.
Cheers Sky blue one, I missed that one!
👍
A medium lift transport helicopter like the NMH is a pretty straightforward development. The MOD seems to be making particularly heavy weather of setting out its requirements. None of the 3 contenders will be built from scratch in the UK, they will at most be assembled here. I cannot see Leonardo setting up a full production line at Yeovil for 25 cabs, it would make them prodigious expensive. It is primarily a battlefield helicopter and needs to be robust enough to take some damage. The BH is well-proven in this respect, the AW149, with its composite material fuselage, has a… Read more »
Makes perfect sense, a competitive fly off, unfortunately while UH-60M exists and could rock up for a competition tomorrow, the AW149 ( as UK configured) is still a paper design.
The Mod still have to gold plate it and add all singing all dancing bespoke mods.
Every one is still a paper design by that definition or do you think there will not be a UK spec for the UH-60
It doy SEM to be a problem for our Chinook orders Alex, in they roll…
UH-60M ticks all the boxes as a Puma replacement as is and deliveries could start next year.
149, is years away…
During a catch up with some mates about 6 weeks ago (one works for Leonardos and the other at DE&S Helicopters), I was told that the NMH program was currently delayed. This didn’t come as a surprise as I have quite a few friends who are at Benson on the NMH Transition team. However what was interesting is that one of them told me that the Leonardos proposal hadn’t quite met (being a slightly conservative there) the requirement. Now I would have expected that at this stage of the competition they would have been filtered out meaning that the program… Read more »
Are you suggesting that sometimes procurement competitions are prejudged? Surely it’s always a totally objective match against requirement criteria. Please don’t diss Santa and the tooth fairy as well. I don’t think I could take it.
Jon I wouldn’t suggest anything of the sort.
Nothing to see here, move along folks, nothing to see!
And as for Santa and the tooth fairy, I’m a firm believer. My little one would disown me if i suggested otherwise.
Procurement is a paper exercise to answer the question asked cheapest will win, but its how they hide the true cost in that answer
So the summary of all these conversations and comments is the Leonardo AW149 isn’t ready, can’t fulfill the requirement and would need expensive tinkering and redesign aka gold patting to fulfill the requirement. The Black Hawk was a helicopter type we should have adopted in the 1990s when we knew Puma was going to be leaving service instead of upgrading the Puma fleet. Now nearly 30 years later we are looking at the Black Hawk again but can’t bear to try to revisit the concept of a UK built BH. Surely the answer is go to Sikorsky dust off the… Read more »
Don’t I recall a second-hand refurbished Blackhawk option? I quite like that as an interim stopgap if we really want the V-280s in mid 2030s.
Jon, yes by Acehawk Aerospace based at Teeside airport. They were offering an ML-70 option (UK version of the Acedeck VL-60) built using previously used platforms. From what I remember the price per platform was considerably lower than all other options. They are UK based, in the north east of England, the proposal was very good (exactly what we needed) with room for a level of growth that would have easily carried us forward towards any future rotary solution. For some reason they either dropped out or they’re proposal was dropped. I think it was the latter.
At the time, Sikorsky were big share holder in Westland.
Cannot argue with a single thing you have said, nail on the head!
The Word is that Leo have been a little guarded, on there information as they quote will be Manufactured in the UK. From Assembled parts. that statement goes against the requirement, A/B state a similar statement. B/O and S/K dont hide they will be made outside the UK but will build support for the platforms in the UK. for the life of the programme creating the same levels of workforce.
So what’s costing the extra 157million?
Buy the best platform available now, or maybe secure and refurbish a currently platform,
while the true winning and replacement for B/H is developed. Buy a workhorse not some flash European show pony.
NH90 rest my case move along people move along, forget 26 jobs in Yeovil for ex Quick fit fitters