The Royal Air Force provided one of its RC-135 surveillance aircraft an escort of two Typhoons over the Black Sea today as the type monitored Russian forces in occupied Ukraine.
The deployment of British RC-135 surveillance aircraft on these missions is routine, but they are very rarely escorted by Typhoon jets.
RC-135 Rivet Joint ZZ665 as " RRR7218 " was escorted by 2 Eurofighter Typhoons ZK362 & ZK351 as " PSYCHO61 & PSYCHO62 " into the Black Sea. pic.twitter.com/xYQBu4legA
— 𝙎𝙍_𝙋𝙡𝙖𝙣𝙚𝙨𝙥𝙤𝙩𝙩𝙚𝙧 ( 𝙏𝙓 ) 🇺🇸 (@SR_Planespotter) October 18, 2022
The RC-135W Rivet Joint and its sensors are designed to undertake ‘signals intelligence’ missions. In other words, they ‘soak up’ electronic emissions from communications, radars and other systems.
This isn’t the first deployment of this type by any means, this has been ongoing for months now, but activity has increased recently due to the Russian invasion. The UK has been increasing the frequency of such flights over the last few months in order to gather intelligence. US aircraft are also present.
As we need to post this each time, here’s the usual disclaimer. This isn’t a new occurrence. In fact, it is pretty routine. The UK has long been gathering intelligence about Russian forces since long before the invasion of Ukraine, and it should be noted that these flights are designed to be visible so that the public and Russia know they’re happening. If it were a secret, I would not know. Also, for those remarking ‘this isn’t new’, that’s right, but people only know this often happens because it is reported often.
British surveillance aircraft being over the area isn’t unusual, but we are seeing a significant increase in the frequency of the flights over the last few months for obvious reasons.
What does the RC-135W do?
According to the Royal Air Force website, the RC-135W Rivet Joint is a dedicated electronic surveillance aircraft that can be employed in all theatres on strategic and tactical missions. Its sensors ‘soak up’ electronic emissions from communications, radar and other systems.
“RC-135W Rivet Joint employs multidiscipline Weapons System Officer (WSO) and Weapons System Operator (WSOp) specialists whose mission is to survey elements of the electromagnetic spectrum in order to derive intelligence for commanders.”
The Royal Air Force say that Rivet Joint has been deployed extensively for Operation Shader and on other operational taskings. It had been formally named Airseeker, but is almost universally known in service as the RC-135W Rivet Joint.
The UK operates three of these aircraft.
I’d read of a Rivet Joint used in the Baltic months ago with USAF F35As regards Kalingrad, but I’d not heard of this before, a Rivet escorted by fighters for its defence?
Daniele,
Indeed, believe this is the first time River Joint has been escorted by a two ship Typhoon flight during Black Sea ops, at least since 24 Feb 22. Several possible interpretations: 1.) training sortie; 2.) showing the flag demo over neutral territory; 3.) collective decision mission profile could become a sporting proposition if Orcs come calling. Actually, 1 or 2 could morph into 3 very quickly, depending upon behavior of any slobbering Orcs encountered.
Did you happen to note callsigns: PSYCH061 and PSYCH062? BSoneonevnay have decided to play head games w/ the Orcs. 🤔😳😂😁
Someone may…🙄
Haha psycho coming.
With regards to the numbers what is the ZK362 number and how is it used.
Also what is the psycho61 number for and how is it used.
Asking for a friendski
ZK351 and ZK362 are the tail numbers for the two aircraft apparently currently assigned to 1(F) Sqn (sorry, uncertain what the RAF 1st Fighter Squadron members refer to themselves as). Number actually appears on aft fuselage of Typhoon in photo I examined.) Tail numbers are principally used for air traffic control purposes. USAF, USMC and USN squadron nicknames are occasionally colorful. Both aircraft are coded as type FGR4; uncertain re reference. Presume either Tranche 2 or 3? Callsigns are mission specific; usually assigned by mission planners (however, RAF pilots may have input, based upon local custom/tradition). In any event, it… Read more »
Thank you. That makes sense. So if you watched the radar often you would see the same aircraft tail numbers flying different missions but the call sign would change for each mission.
Its not looked at the radar much. Last time was a few months ago when a coastguard AW189 chopper flew over my house at a few hundred feet doing 190 knots at 22.40
👍
All RAF Aircraft are assigned serial numbers, good for spotters and their hobby too 👍.
😂😁👍👍
Don’t know why but my earlier post never made it.
Pshyco is a standard callsign for Lossiemouth Typhoons.
Did not realize that; still appreciate and applaud someone’s choice; perhaps a signal to potential opponents yielding momentary pause. 🤔😁
Psycho for lossie. What’s coninsby?
Some Typhoon call signs.
Coningsby
3(F) Sqn
CHAOS
RAMPAGE
NIGHTMARE
BRUTAL
11(F) Sqn
HAVOC
RAZOR
TYRANT
NITRO
12Sqn
WOLF
VANDAL
VERMIN
DEADPOOL
29(R) Sqn
COBRA
GUNFIGHTER
ROCKSTAR
TRIPLEX
WARLORD
HORSEMAN
41(R)TES Sqn
REBEL
APOLLO
VIKING
Lossiemouth.
1 [F] Squadron
Jedi
Psycho
Tribal.
2 [AC] Squadron,
Bayonet
Blizzard
Chieftain
Spartan
Valkyrie
6 Squadron
Boxer
Cannon
Turbo
Venom
Generally, a decent selection; but VERMIN? 😂😁
Demented?
I freaking love this.
I’m sure my Ukrainian guests would appreciate the humor. 😉
Please see my post above/below.
Copied this from France 24 in the last few minutes. Probably explains why the escort.
1:09pm: UK defence minister Wallace: Russian aircraft fired missile near British plane over Black SeaA Russian aircraft on Septembre 29 released a missile near a British aircraft patrolling in international airspace over the Black Sea, defence minister Ben Wallace said on Thursday.
I’m not aware of any such capability, but how feasible is an active protection system for airborne assets such as these, either carried by the asset in question or its escorts?
Although not stated in article, would presume Typhoons we’re armed in this scenario.
…were…(this one attributed to auto correct).
Yes I understand the Typhoon’s can defend against other aircraft. What about SAMs though?
Yes. The Praetorian defensive aids sub system is designed to protect against all threats from the air and surface to air threats. The system is made up of radar warning receivers, missile aporoach warning, laser warning reciver, electronic support measures, chaff/flares, 2 x towed radar decoy, and an internal electronic countermeasures system. 👍
I read that out the 4 original Typhoon operating nations, the RAF fleet has the best DASS package. Can’t speak for the export variants though.
I also understand Praetorian is pretty effective; how much so against S300/400/500 SAMs I’m not sure.
I would love to hear from those on this forum much more educated than I, on this matter. If I was a Typhoon driver over Ukraine, should I be worried about Russian S400s if engaged?? Hypothetical of course.
Thanks everyone!
Matters pertaining to a Typhoon system’s performance and in particular the Praetorian defensive aid system (DAS). Is classified as secret. What I can say is that it has been continuously updated to meet emerging threats. The method of how it is used, has also been continuously developed from intelligence gained from ISTAR etc. I would say that a Typhoon has a better chance of survival compared to most (4th gen) aircraft and in particular Rafale. As the on-board aircraft jammer does not blank out the aircraft’s RWR when operating. Typhoon also now has deployable expendable RF active transmitting Britecloud decoys.… Read more »
Understood. Reference article states up to six ARM and/or two Paveway IV. No guarantee that they were so equipped for this particular sortie.
After re-examining your question, perceive that it may reference Rivet Joint aircraft itself, as opposed to any escort. There does not appear to be any publicly available information re defensive aids. Does not guarantee that something does not exist, but no one is advertising a capability. Presume aircraft are generally to remain out of harm’s way.
Interesting, thanks for the reply. I realise it is quite a difference application but I think there is value in developing an active protection system for these highly valued airborne assets, given the attention given by the Chinese most significantly, to their elimination by long range anti air weapon systems.
Due to the nature of what’s going on in the area the Rivet Joint is flying. The aircraft will be fully DAS’d up. DAS is defensive aid systems, that in radar warning receivers (RWR), missile approach warning system (MAWS), expendable decoys including chaff and flares. Due to the importance of the aircraft, it may also have a RF jammer fitted. It should also have a directed infrared counter measure (DIRCM). These systems will allow the aircraft to detect whether it is being tracked by a radar guided system. The MAWS will not only detect a launch, but can also track… Read more »
While ex RAF pilots are aiding the Chicom AF. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/air-platforms/latest/former-raf-pilots-found-to-be-training-chinese-counterparts
WTF are they thinking? Training a potential enemy!
No jobs with the RAF🙈 they could be on a spy mission. Seeing how effective Chinese training is etc
The way i see it,while the story seems quite horrific and even treacherous,there may be some positives.All branches of the PLA are an unknown quantity,to coin a phrase they might have ‘all the gear but no idea’.I read that the contracted ex RAF Pilots were all 50+ and not conversant in current Aircraft types,what’s stopping them from passing on skills that are not relevant to today’s Air Warfare scenarios but still taking the money (thank you very much) ?.Also they could just as easily pass back information to the west as to the skills and Operational Capabilities of the PLAAF… Read more »
They signed the Official Secrets Act and thats for life, or was. Charge a few with some conspiracy charges and passing information to potential enemies. Should stop the rest, and any going stripped of British nationality for good.
(a) You can’t strip someone of their nationally and render them stateless
(b) HMG are looking to see if they would be breaking the Official Secrets by doing this, or any non-disclosure agreements.
(a) It’s strongly advised you don’t but it can be done. Ain’t no one to stop you at the end of the day if you really want to. Oh, the UN might throw a pissy fit.
Traitors should get the boot.
I agree they’re traitors, especially if they train the Chinese aggressor squadrons on NATO tactics. But the question is whether it can be proved in law that they are…
Yes we could render them stateless* and in doing so break the international treaties that we’ve signed up to… but that kind of thing affects a country’s status in the world. It would look especially bad given they are UN treaties, an organisation that we and the other victorious 4 allies created.
* Plenty of countries that will sell them a passport for the right amount so it’s only a gesture.
Read that today, grey area here as regards to the official secrets act as the vast majority of flying training, like infantry training, isn’t secret and able to be gleaned from various sources! And 250K for a one year contract, the Chicoms know how to pay for a lot of future gains! Hard to resist! I wonder how there light infantry skills are……mmmmmm
😁
Perhaps the best way to deter this is the name them and then by association they are shamed.
It is both very interesting and depressing that the first time this appeared in US media was this evening (on BBC World News). No US TV, print or on-line coverage. US may brag about the first amendment, but if news never surfaces, just how useful is it? The Brits have evidently known about this for quite awhile. Are ex USAF, USMC, USN personnel implicated?!? No idea, no info.
First (and only) B.B.C. online report I read mentioned that pilots ‘of other nations’ had been approached without listing these. Might be useful to know what the Chinese know and through inference, do not know. However, very naughty behaviour. In the U.K. this kind of activity can be stopped pretty swiftly by a Parliamentary amendment to the regulations that would be ‘nodded through’ in a day.
A statutory instrument could perhaps also be used, wouldn’t even need to go through Parliament.
Or just name them. Paper may jump on this anyway and we could see faces and names in print soon.
Wish I could state w/ confidence that there would be a similar pathway here. Unfortunately, between the motivations of different factions in Congress and the US court system there is very little that is guaranteed, especially time-frames.
In free societies we do rather depend on people’s sense of loyalty. It hasn’t stopped everyone but most are decent types. A change in the regulations might make prosecution more likely to succeed. But ultimately it is a question of integrity. What’s it worth?
…this sounds a bit like the pre-WWII stuff with Japan, when British individuals helped modernise the Japanese navy. I wonder if this involved ex-harrier pilots who were dumped by the British Government, along with their aircraft, and that unsettled their loyalties? Anybody doing this with China must have been aware of the treasonus nature of their activities. Actually up to a few years ago the same could also be said of many UK politicians allowing China involvement in the UK or taking donations. Shame also on the UK and the world for not being able to stand up to China… Read more »
Yes, have believed that it was rightfully UK’s position to take the lead in confronting ChiComs re reneging on HK treaty. US should have backed UK w/ a diplomatic, economic and political strategy, buttressed by a large fleet/air expeditionary force somewhere over the horizon. ChiComs would have perfectly understood (5 by 5) that message.
…exactly that was a moment in history the West may come to regret. It is so hard for western democratic politicians, used to short-term thinking, that China is working to a long-term strategic plan. There should have been some consequences to China for what it has done with HK.
Yes that’s shocking. Hope they get done for treason.
At least 2 x Aussies are known to have been approached but they declined. Could be more. It really is morally unacceptable but legally grey. Flight training, flight safety training etc Vs HMG saying (i assume in many cases) sorry…services no longer required. Meanwhile private enterprise invests billions migrating engineering, manufacturing and technology etc into a lower cost manufacturing base that over time will erode Western advantage.
Could employment (and/or Pensions) be linked to MOD approval of any and all post Service international employment / contracts?
90% of the spotter’s are well aware What’s going on,as they also continually monitor the apps in reality.
Including me.
The third one is somewhere in the US. Why do our two get refuelled by a K35 over Norfolk but the US ones just fly from Mildenhall without refuelling?
We occasionally see F15s wth Air Force 1, these are effectively heat sinks, they will either lure weapons away or take the impact (nice ejection seats and all that).
The Tiffies will also have other countermeasures that the larger aircraft won’t have.
That is my bet.
Wednesday crazy scenario, an F35 is doing the same job.
The pilot ejects just before impact, but his seat is not as stealthy as his aeroplane.
Welcome to my world, lots of port.
Monitoring and surveillance of potential national security threats is very important. I hope there is an equivalent amount being directed at remoaner MP Jeremy Hunts’ links with the Chinese Communist Party.
Being someone who didn’t support brexit isn’t a bad thing.
https://youtu.be/wO2lWmgEK1Y
The FT did a great video speaking to lots of people who have experienced difficulties in business from leaving the EU. Difficulties they were told wouldn’t happen by the brexit bunch.
Basically the U.K. is doing the worst out of the G7 and will continue to decline. The deals promised haven’t come true so this effects business a lot.
The companies spoken to now have moved most distribution operations onto the continent with the jobs as well. the smaller companies that can’t do that are losing out.
Never mind picking up on his remoaner comment what about Hunts links to the CCP the poster alluded to. Im going to hazard a guess there are plenty of people in both parties that have fingers in the chinese money pie right up to their elbows.A bit like they did with Russian money until it became too hot to keep the status quo.
Do we have convincing evidence of this? AFAIK all there is is his wife sometimes working on TV programmes broadcast by a Chinese company. It all sounds like the abuse about ‘privatising the NHS’ and similar that various trolls were putting out about Hunt when he was Health Minister. The most prominent of those, one Dr Eoin Clarke (not a medical Dr, though he never admitted that on his social media feeds about the NHS), ended up issuing so many apologies when M’Learned Friends reminded him of his responsibilities not to lie about people that they could have been used… Read more »
Every business and organisation within the lands governed by the CCP. (CCP occupied China.) Must be fully accessible to the party and directly accountable to their military the PLA. ALL employees especially those living abroad, are duty bound to comply with military orders. If they do not their families suffers terribly. You should already be aware of body organs being “harvested to order” from political prisoners. Therefore ANY and ALL British/NATO government, civil service or military personnel with links to CCP china, are by definition national security risks. Fact check everything I have written for yourself. Some on here will… Read more »
Epoch Times? There’s a reliable source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times
🙄
If one wants the dirt on the CCP, it’s always a good idea to go ask those with a vested interest in digging it up. Falun Gong practitioners are among those who have had their organs harvested to order, by their ChiCom jailers. How you choose to validate that information is up to you.
Wikipedia? There’s a reliable source.
https://swprs.org/wikipedia-disinformation-operation/
🤔👍. George, very much appreciate your thinking re the scum-sucking, slimeball ChiComs! I, of course, strive mightily to maintain a totally dispassionate and unbiased view of CCP worldwide activities. 🤣😂😁😉
I know nothing about hunt and the Chinese wife or whatever so didn’t comment. I was just saying a saw a video from the FT and found it interesting
Indeed. Jeremy Hunt was introduced by others.
I’m not *that* convinced by FT branded things just because it is the FT, these days.
Their head data journalist is (to me) given too much to elephant-conclusions-on-a-toadstall-of-evidence recently, and pushes it too far.
Still a good news brand on most things, however.
Can’t say I’ve ever read the Financial Times. The video was suggested on my YouTube so gave it a watch.
I would hope that as it was made by what I presume is a reputable newspaper it would be correct. As with anything the people in the video are giving their opinion and other people may have different experiences.
As for the hunt issues I don’t really pay that much attention to people in politics that much
Go on the FT website and search Brexit. You’ll understand why the FT may not be viewed as impartial on this subject.
I worked for a company 20 years ago that was going through a knowledge/share swapping program with BAe. BAe were taking a 30% stake and there was a stake in BAe too. Closer ties, but 70% still owned by Siemens. One day a “journalist” from the FT came down saying “what’s all this about BAe taking you guys over”. We explained what was really going on and the BAe had no control whatsoever, which was true. Next day the headline read “XXXXXX taken over my BAe”. I lost a lot of faith in the FT and journalism in general after… Read more »
>Basically the U.K. is doing the worst out of the G7 and will continue to decline.
You have numbers on that? I have yet to see any evidence which has not been cherrypicked.
(Obvs there’s lots of shouting, and routinely misleading stuff put out on Social Media by the likes of Best for Britain.)
Focus on the CCP issue, ignore the obvious attempts to deflect. That was me casting the fly to see what would bite. The CCP are playing the long game and have learned from the failures of the USSR. Their exploitation of the weaknesses created by globalist billionaires, is quite brilliant. Right down to taking opportunistic advantage of US biotechnology, to initiate a global pandemic. Masterful really, solving their aging population problem at the same time. Not the first time Chinese people have been sacrificed for the good of the party. Mao must be dancing in his grave, while his 40… Read more »
🤔🤔👍. If there is any truth to this interpretation of the origin of the COVID-19 epidemic, then the ChiComs have truly surpassed themselves, in terms of duplicity and treachery. Machiavelli would certainly have bowed to their prowess.
Hi. Answered him without reading to the bottom of the thread.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02784/assets/fcb83e6c-fd88-4717-93d9-de056391e09e.png
He’s wrong.
Watch the ft video. They have lots of figures and graphs in it.
I don’t really pay loads of attention to the topic just it’s a good video with small business peoples opinions and figures in it.
Basically the U.K. is doing the worst out of the G7 and will continue to decline.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02784/assets/fcb83e6c-fd88-4717-93d9-de056391e09e.png
The UK had the fastest growing economy in the G7 last year and this.
But it’s going to be the worst now and is the only country not to be back to levels above pre covid.
https://www.icaew.com/insights/viewpoints-on-the-news/2022/apr-2022/chart-of-the-week-g7-economic-growth
I’m not an economist and stats can misleading. Who knows what will happen but the folks in the video and the few small businesses that I know that sold stuff to Europe say its much harder now. From no problem selling in Europe before brexit to big delays and problems now. Several have said they have lost business and that’s a shame.
Has anyone else heard any reports that Ben Wallis was off for emergency talks in the US along with others, there is thoughts is that it’s do to concerns Russia may be planning a nuclear test of a tactical weapon in the Black Sea.
Thats the link to the official read out from the White House, dosen’t say much.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/18/readout-of-national-security-advisor-jake-sullivans-meeting-with-united-kingdom-secretary-of-state-for-defence-ben-wallace/
I see other outlets are reporting it was discussed.
Well if that’s true, that will be turkey and every other country around the Black Sea very pissed.
Putin must of been the boy at school that just didn’t know how to make friends with people.
Official Answer in the HoC today was, and I paraphrase “we need to make sure that as the threat changes we are all on the same page, and I like to do that face to face. Russia has changed generals and there are the other Russian threats” give or take that’s what it amounted to. He was also pressed on what he would do in the face of chemical or biological attack, he was saying they would treat in the same way as theatre nukes.
There has been speculation in the open press of a low yield, airburst in proximity of Snake Island as a demonstration of “escalate to de-escalate” strategy. Signalling, a potentially dangerous sport. Anyone else hearing echoes from 1914 and 1939?
There was a time, back in the early 1960, when it was regularly flown through the Black Sea, without an escort. 51 Squadron had the honours with XK659.
Well now me know why. Russians playing dangerous games
It’s been reported that 2 Su27 flew alongside an RAF rivet joint where one fired off a missile towards the RJ. Now we know why Typhoons ourt of Akrotiri have been escorting.
To be specific, the report stated that the Su27 fired off the missile “over the horizon” but that it failed to hit the RJ. Wallace stated that the Russians claim this was due to a “technical mafunction” Whether the technical malfunction related to the missile’s failure to hit the RJ or to the actual launch remains unclear
Let’s be clear about one thing, a missile lauched at bvr in the vicinity of an intelligence gathering aircraft with a public flight plan and the Russians notified in advance in international airspace. Missiles don’t suddenly launch off the rails by themselves unless the Russians have a very big issue with training and maintenance. Nato aircraft going about its lawful business is to all intense was fired upon. If that RV had gone down it would have been seen as an act or war, Article 5. We are now in the dangerous stakes business and dealing with an unpredictable and… Read more »
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe that this was a “malfunction”. There are too many steps and safety lockouts to overcome before a missile is fired off a rail or ejected by the ram ejectors for semi-recessed missiles. As soon as the aircraft produces electrical power, the missile will be powered. However, the missile has to be selected through the mission computer to activate the seeker. To activate the motor, the master arm switch needs to be made, which then allows power to remove a detent that holds the missile on the rail. The pilot… Read more »
A show of force is an intentional act, does the Royal Air Force on QRA fire off time ex asraam everything a Russian bear approaches the UK area of interest? No we have a recognised approach to all this. We know you are there and we know you are probing here is a couple of Typhoons port and starboard.
Looks it it is to do with this ‘interaction’.
Russian fighter jet ‘released a missile in vicinity’ of RAF aircraft over Black Sea
https://www.forces.net/russia/russian-fighter-jet-released-missile-vicinity-raf-aircraft-over-black-sea-wallace-says
The Russians really are looking like they are willing to push to the point of going to war with NATO.
The fact Putin has enacted martial law and put in-place requirements for regions to prioritise support for the military suggests he’s going all in, even to the destruction of his nation.
was just tracking PSYCH061 escorting River Joint over the black sea and both dropped off flight radar at the same time. Is it normal for them to turn off their transponders during a mission?