The UK is the “leading European power” assisting Ukraine to defend itself against Russia according to an analyst giving evidence to a British parliamentary committee.
The following exchange happened earlier today as the Scottish Affairs Committee held its first evidence session as part of its inquiry, Defence in Scotland: Military Personnel and Estate.
Chairperson Pete Wishart, Member of Parliament Perth and North Perthshire, asked:
“Is the UK in any meaningful role, has any meaningful role in all of this given it’s mainly going to be the Americans and NATO? I know we’re members of NATO.”
Professor Phillips O’Brien, Professor of Strategic Studies, University of St Andrews, responded:
“Is it going to match what the US can do? No, nowhere close to that. But for a European power, clearly, the Germans don’t know what they’re doing and the French also seem torn. The UK is the leading European power that is willing to provide some support to the Ukrainians. I think that is being recognised”.
What is the UK doing?
Most notably in recent weeks, the Uk has been flying thousands of anti-tank missile systems to Ukraine after gifting the nation larger stockpiles of the NLAW weapon system.
Before that, British military assistance to Ukraine was increased significantly after 2014 and the Russian annexation of Crimea, a Parliamentary Research Briefing paper has taken a look at just what that involves.
In 2015 the UK launched Operation Orbital, a non-lethal training and capacity building operation that provides guidance and training to the Ukrainian armed forces.
“In August 2020 the MOD announced that the UK will lead a new multinational maritime training initiative that will boost the capacity of Ukraine’s Navy to act in the Black Sea. The UK and Ukraine have also launched the Naval Capabilities Enhancement Programme, which will develop Ukraine’s naval capabilities. To date, over 21,000 Ukrainian military personnel have been trained under these initiatives. The UK has also gifted £2.2 million of non-lethal military equipment.”
In June 2021 the UK, Ukraine and industry signed a Memorandum of Implementation that will push the NCEP forward. Work will now commence on:
• Ukraine’s purchase of two refurbished Royal Navy Sandown-class minehunters in a government-to-government sale
• The sale and integration of missiles on new and in-service Ukrainian Navy patrol and airborne platforms, including a training and engineering support package
• Assistance in building new naval bases in the Black Sea and Azov Sea
• The development and joint production of eight fast missile warships
• Participation in the Ukrainian project to deliver a modern frigate capability.
Additionally, British surveillance aircraft have been keeping an eye on Russian forces. Last week, a British RC-135 ‘Rivet Joint’ intelligence-gathering aircraft once again deployed to Crimea to keep an eye on Russian forces near the border with Ukraine.
Earlier, we reported that there has been an increase in the frequency of British RC-135 aircraft being deployed to the Black Sea region near Ukraine’s border with Russia. The UK has deployed an aircraft for this task every few days over the last month or so. British surveillance aircraft being over the Black Sea near Crimea isn’t unusual but we are seeing a significant increase in the frequency of the flights over the last few weeks. American assets are also present.
The British Foreign Secretary has stated that Britain is “ensuring that Ukraine has the capability to defend itself”.
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said in Parliament:
“In December, I visited British troops forming part of NATO’s enhanced forward presence at Tapa in Estonia, where allies are helping to protect the border with Russia. We are working with our NATO partners to ensure that that protection remains in place and is enhanced so that we can fulfil our commitments. With Ukraine, we are ensuring that it has the capability to defend itself. That involves training, and the UK has trained more than 20,000 troops in Ukraine. We are also supplying extra capability for naval defences as well as support in areas such as cyber-security and other services.”
On top of the above, British military forces are set to be deployed to strengthen Eastern Europe’s borders in the face of rising Russian aggression.
You can read more on that here.
The British Government is incredibly irresponsible. It simply does not have the capability to back up its public rhetoric. Sending an essentially unarmed patrol ship (and a single destroyer for that matter) to the Black Sea in the face of what the Russian navy and air force possess in that region is simply irresponsible. Since nobody in NATO is saying that the Alliance will fight for Ukraine, what, actually, is the point of this? I can see the point of starting to take measures to impose massive sanctions on Russia. But these military moves are starting, at minimum, to look… Read more »
Yes HMG is behaving as though we are a member of NATO with friendly forces around the Black sea whom we are helping and who will in turn help us in the somewhat unlikely event of Russia launching an attack on a UK warship in international waters.
I would have thought that they would have been better off with a T45, T23 or an RFA.
The RFA would have Phalanx and twin 30mm so would, to some views, be better protected.
Unless there is a capability on a River B2 that nobody knows about?
If it came to anything beyond a pointless show, the type of ship or its armament is not relevant. There is no defence against a large flock of incoming Onyx, with a couple of Kilos underneath.
Any weapon system, or platform can be defeated, by other platforms or systems. Its called warfare. The fact that there are threats out there with the ability to possibly defeat an asset of ours means we dont bother doing anything? Right? Wrong, warfare is about mitigation, training, tactics and procedures…its about intel, its about risk management and risk taking, experience and luck. No country has advantages in every sphere of operations, and that includes the Ruskies. That view you have taken John is a very civvy oriented view which only looks at the top trumps type numbers. Any operation will… Read more »
I have to agree with you. Until it actually happens war is a simulation but after that all the actualities click into place and the unexpected happens all over the place as events go against the odds. It is only then that reality is there in full force, does the S-400 actually work, is the Astute as good as we think, is stealth the game changer promised? The list goes on but it will never be as expected and we just have to hope that , if it ever happens, we have better leaders and systems than the opposition.
Airbourne wrote: That view you have taken John is a very civvy oriented view which only looks at the top trumps type numbers. It never fails to amaze me how so many people subscribe to the “Never mind the quality, feel the width” mentality. I’m a short arse and a jo dacky to boot. Yet , so many idiots see me as an easy target. The worst are those who on finding out I’m a martial artist, love to pass comment that I would only hit them once and then when I find I can’t walk away and push has come… Read more »
Spot on mate!
Where is the like button!
Well said..
Sorry i’m not getting notifications. The Def Sec and RN must have given this a lot of thought so there’ll be a reason for sending a River Batch 2. I’ll have a guess that it’s a political message to the Russians and/or our allies in the area more than a military one. For that purpose a River or a 23 or a 45 serve the same purpose.
They could both be sunk. Oops. Is there something you want to say as your NATO allies tell you to suck it up and don’t be so stupid next time?
‘Your’ ? Stupid like sailing in international waters ?
I’ve no idea. However, was a 45 not sailing in sovereign UE waters? And swarmed by 17 Russuan planes.
Swarmed ! So not sunk !
What are you wittering on about.
There is potential for a T45 to be sunk
(Future)?
A 45 was swarmed (Past).
That I believe there is a difference between being swarmed and sunk. That one is not a logical corollary to the other.
Heavens. I’ll let someone else try to help the hard of understanding, understand. Good evening.
Ok I’ll step in to help the hard of understanding: swarming a ship that is not defending itself is not the same as sinking a ship that is defending itself and almost certainly being defended by others.
Except, I would not swarm an unescorted 45, I used a sub to sink it… for the hard of thinking, I hope that clarifies things.
I must be hard of thinking because I don’t see the relevance to our situation.
It was reported thatbthe RB2 and 45 were being sent into the Black Sea unescrted by a 23
IMHO this is just putting matelots into harms for political deflection over current home affairs.
The matelots on the vessels will have titainium balls, I have no doubt.
However, it is being done for political ends and no one knows how Putin will react.
The patrol boat is not there to face of with them, it’s a Nato trip wire that says destroy us and article 5 is invoked and the gangs coming for u. We could send our entire military and it wouldn’t scare putin. Don’t fight harder, fight cleverer
Realistically that isn’t how it would play out. All would happen is we would move one step closer to war, a lot of polictical finger waging and a load of sailors would lose their life. Sending a ship that has no chance of defending itself is just dangerous.
As normally happens with such incidents, Russia would say that the ship crossed into their waters and they were forced to take action.
Wars generally take a lot more than one bullet being fired, although admittedly it can be the final straw.
Some Russian planes flew around a lot making a lot of noise. Fortunately the T45 didn’t fry their onboard electronics by switching her radars onto max power 😏
Please explain to David Steeper. I, among many others, watched the video.
However, I’m sure should things get a bit pointy, she’ll be sunk by a Rus sub… not airn
Yeah I saw the video, and the very comment about how lucky the Russians were the radar wasn’t on max was made by the captain as they filmed. Or maybe you didn’t have the sound on 🤷🏻♂️
Things get pointy… Rus sub.
Simple, you sink the tug that’s sent with the sub for when it breaks down 😆
You win, I’m laughing 😉 tw@t! 🙂
Of course I win, ad hominem attacks are always a sign your opponent is unable to defeat your argument logically 🤷🏻♂️
Mmmmm, accurate self analysis?
You won on the sub and tug. Not on David Steeper trolling me. Balance Sean, balance.
Or beam shaping the max power onto them……. But I quite agree in that circumstance Sampson would have dropped them with no munitions fired. What would be even more effective is using the exact frequency to blast at max power to fry specific electronics. Choke/coil/transformer/inductor/relay/reed switch all easy targets but even tracks on a PCB will have a critical frequency. Would be fun to just knock out one critical system so the plane was mission killed but nobody got hurt. You’d send a pretty clear message? And nobody looses any face……all anyone sees is more of the same nonsense of… Read more »
In a shooting war enemy aircraft could fire missiles from far away & it’d be questionable wether a T45 could survive a prolonged attack. A river would have no chance. I’d doubt a RFA with Phalanx could destroy 1 or 2 on a good day & if they did they could still suffer damage & casualties from debris as Phalanx has very short range. How chaff/ECM would fare I’ve no idea.
Yes Asters could have taken out many of the jets but only if they came close enough for the missiles range.
I see to recall River 2s being defined as a presence enough to be seen which is not powerful enough to pose a definite military threat.
Or that was the statement when they were being deployed to new areas.
Yep a political more than a military message to whom it may concern.
It might actually be the case here. Maybe that is the point being seen to do something without actually threatening Russia and escalating things. Although it doesn’t explain the t45.
The T45 is the escort,
River Class 2s are the new carrier battle groups.
😀
Abracadabra we have about 8 aircraft carriers.
By the time you’re relying on Phalanx it’s very last-ditch defence. I wouldn’t fancy your chances.
I agree.
Relying on one 30mm cannon would seem more limited that 2 x 30mm and 2 x Phalanx?
Rivers probably do have some EW fitted but nothing like the power of Sampson or Artesan?
Cobblers. Name one Black Sea based NATO warship with CAPTAS 4 ASW capability; meanwhile, how many T45 are ready for sea, to replace the one that is sunk?
Which T45 has sunk ?
…the one that IS sunk… future simple tense. The 45 has no effective ASW capability.
Has = past/present tense. Did I suggest a 45 should be deployed = no. Did I suggest 45 has ASW capability = no.
What are you wittering about?
😫
Yeah, Ive noticed the bloke is acting the C as well.
😆
Who are you talking about Farouk?
“Cobblers”
Hey! That’s my expletive! 😂
None are going to be sunk, because the Russians aren’t stupid enough to start a war with NATO. At least not until they have secured Ukraine and teamed up with China.
So stop panicking 🤦🏻♂️
I’m not panicking. A lot people talking up NATO… not sure all MS would be on-board.
Certainly sounds like it.
How do people “talk up” the largest and most powerful military alliance in history? 🤔
Clue, read the articles. This convo has been done so many times. An attack on a MS does not mean everyone goes to war against the belligerent. The issue is returned to respective parliaments to be debated. Personally, I feel Bluffer is attempting deflection by sending under armed/protected platforms into harms way. Personally? Copy the Canadians and keep dry the powder of the RN. Why, you can not be sure that every MS will declare all for one, one for all – Germany springs to mind. And before any more of you start, I’m not an apologist for Putin nor… Read more »
If a member nation didn’t back an invocation of article 5 that had been approved by the North Atlantic Council then it would rightly be seen as reneging on its commitment of mutual defence. We would probably then see the first expulsion from the alliance.
Nail : Head. Putin 1 : O NATO So why put our RN assets in danger? Should you have been to one of the many conferences hosted by the Latvian Institute for International Affairs, the Germans never wanted conflict with the Russians and indeed almost pleaded with NATO MS to placate Russian fears and accept their wishes. Break one State and the potential for dominoes grows; an outlier? Donald Trump comes out in favour of NATO non-aggression against a Russia acting un self-defence. That is not my panic, it is my informed opinion. The West needs far better pollies than… Read more »
The fact you use a silly name for a politician just makes you sound like a kid in the schoolyard, really makes it hard to take you seriously with that childish behaviour. The RN assets aren’t in danger, simples 🤦🏻♂️ Just like our troops in Estonia aren’t in danger. The only ones perhaps in danger are those on Operation Orbital, Training the Ukrainians. As for the rest of your random incoherent statements. Well Germany is utterly dependent on Russia for gas after the idiots shut their nuclear power stations. Russia hasn’t acted in self-defence since Hitler double-crossed Stalin. NATO is… Read more »
Its an interesting situation. If hostilities did kick off under whatever pretext and the Russians believed certain vessels were gathering and passing Intel to the Ukranians then its not beyond the relmes of possibility that the Russians would do something about it, with or without a positive ID. Look at MH flight scenario, look at US taking down Iranian jet airliner…in the heat of battle etc. With the range of AshM there is also the very real danger of a stray (either Russian or Ukranian) AshM possing a danger . Type 45 can readily deal with threat and has decoys… Read more »
RB2 is toast in any war zone. Policing the oceans, supporting coastguards, delivering aid, showing the flag ok, but cannon fodder militarily.
Of course. And yawn.
;0)
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At the risk of pouring petrol on your post, given some views on here of me, you are spot on. The US and UK are the only significant powers, excluding Poland as they have a vested interest in getting more foreigners based there, that see a risk of war in Ukraine, apart from the Russians protecting Donbas if attacked, and no-one has told us why. Even if that were to happen, given that NATO has said they will not interfere, what is the point of us spending all that money sending and keeping there an inconsequential force (effectively light infantry… Read more »
It’s actually a majority of countries in the EU that are offering strong support to Ukraine.
Germany is seriously isolated.
The people we need to be listening to are those countries under threat, rather than imagining we can convene some sort of high-falutin conversation that accepts that an emerging European democracy can be subjected to invasion by a dictatorship.
Would agree with your comment about ‘majority of powers’ but they are small. The other big one, France, seems to be on the fence.
The main country under threat as you put it is Ukraine and they seem to be asking pretty clearly for everyone to back off. We will see what happens when, by the look of it Boris and the Poles meet in Kiev tomorrow.
I partly agree. The reinforcement to NATO is about NATO taking a credible stance, which is about supporting the frontline countries – just as support in the 50s-80s was focused on the then frontline countries mainly West Germany. Ukraine there is a lot of past bad work to reverse wrt NATO – Putin having got away with Chechnya, Georgia etc. The goal in Ukraine is to help it make itself indigestible – and show that it stops here. Plus there is a side project imo to help Germany out of the hole it has dug for itself as far as… Read more »
Unfortunately climate change is affecting wind, with a projected drop in wind of over 10%, resulting in a drop in electricity produced over over 30%. So we’re going to need to increase the number of turbines just to stand still.
We need an energy mix, wind-power combines with small modular reactors until we finally learn how to harness fusion.
Why dont we just put all Politicians on a platform in the North Sea and get them to debate anything. The wind generated would be enough to cover the short fall. Just an idea
But we have our own massive forthcoming demand for electricity with the move of UK transport and heating away from gas. Also offshore wind electricity is expensive, with relatively short life blades. We need more nuclear power. Germany and indeed Europe’s problem is that Russian gas is cheap, is available in volume and whole industries are built around it, especially chemicals like fertiliser, some types of which can only be made from gas. This is not easy to replace and remain competitive especially if that same gas is being used by Russia or piped to China instead, potentially leading to… Read more »
Donbas? Oh you mean the part of Ukraine that’s already been invaded by Russia. In which case it would be a counter-attack by the Ukrainians. As for sanctions, we’ll the existing ones have put a wrecking ball through the Russian economy, increasing unemployment and making selling natural resources their only major source of income. The new sanctions sound much more precise, targeting the money Putin had looted from the Russian state and then transferred abroad. As for deploying our forces to our NATO allies in the region, it’s a symbolic reminder that were they ever threatened then we would defend… Read more »
There are somewhere around 2-3 million Ukrainian citizens living in Donbas of which somewhere over 1 million and growing also have Russian citizenship as well. In Spring 2014 as the Ukrainian Army, UA, moved south east leaving a trail of destruction and god knows what else in its wake and militias, made up primarily of Red Army veterans and anyone who could hold a gun, started being formed to protect themselves and their families against Azov and similar groups. They were fighting a rearguard action for months until they built up enough experience manpower, (including large numbers of ‘volunteers from… Read more »
Copy and paste that straight from your briefing sheet? I’m guessing Fancy Bears and GRU, because the Cozy Bears of the SVR are a lot more sophisticated in their trolling.
All that long fairy tale and not a mention of Wagner Group’s involvement, Putin’s deniable private army.
No, I wrote it from scratch this evening based on my memory of what I saw unfold at the time.
There was no mention of Wagner at the time but no doubt they were there, just as similar western operatives were on the other side.
Of course IF the Russians do attack one of HM ships that would constitute an attack on NATO with all the consequences that would entail.
Something they will be well aware of. Why put it at risk for little benefit in the first place?
Simple…. No one will tell HM Government or the Royal Navy that they are not allowed to sail in International waters…
You’re agenda is now becoming tiresome. I’m all for a question but yours has been answered repeatedly.
The primary immediate consequence would be a British ship sunk with the resulting loss of life. … after that, it’s anyone’s guess what would happen.
So do tell is ours the only NATO ship in the Black Sea at the moment?Why do you think the Russians are going to pick on a RN ship and leave all the others alone? It’s no ones guess is it? An act of war will have been committed!
And we will reply how? Oh, well, just a punch on the nose, nothing to get excited about… lands far away that we know nothing about…
I suspect that the Russians would not do anything to a British ship in international waters. But if the British government again gets the bright idea to sail through Russian claimed waters, I don’t know if they’ll get away with it a second time … and then if you are relying on the Germans or the French (or the Americans for that matter) to back you up if the Russians do something, well good luck to you.
No. There are other NATO countries that have navies on the Black Sea. Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria all have a border on the Black Sea.
Russia is not mounting an invasion of NATO countries. Any nation has freedom of navigation rights. There is a lot of commercial shipping travelling through the Black Sea. Our presence is to assure commercial operators you are safe to sail here.
And a bit of intel gathering as a side bonus.
Astute comment. The ship went down with any witnesses covered by the secrets Acts. Same as a limited nuclear war in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific.What would happen indeed?
And the majority of NATO would do what?
Turkish Phantom shot down on operations, Salisbury poisonings?
It’s known as gun boat diplomacy.
I agree with your comments, the UK does not have the military to oppose Russia.
Where did all these AT missiles come from exactly? I’m shocked to learn out stockpiles are that large
The UK also manufactures the missile.
Some things we do have quite a lot of actually. Storm Shadow being another one that was ordered in substantial volume. I would guess that we have a decent and growing inventory of Sea Ceptor as it is flavour of the month and not silly expensive. I know everyone on here assumes that RN has one missile that every ship shares according to the day of the week. A lot of that came from when Sea Dart was going out of service stocks/spares were run down to the OSD. Partly that was to do with the ISD of ASTER slipping… Read more »
I note today from the Mail that the NHS are gearing up to write off £2.6B of PPI equipment, so perhaps it shouldn’t be a surprise that there are all kinds of ‘treasure troves’ scattered around Government.
At least in this case they are off to somewhere where they might be used. Maybe not by the user intended by UKG but someone somewhere else after a cash sale, the Ukrainian military being very well known for such activity. Maybe to PPK to use against our allies the Turks or ISIS against our SF in Syria.
PPE or PPI? lol
PPE of course, I’m getting old. PPI was bad enough, a Blair/Brown con job, they got the glory and votes with new hospitals and schools etc but pushed most of the cost beyond their tenure! Same as Maggie selling off the ‘family silver’ nationalised industries, some needed it but not all, just desperate for money to spend. Mind you it didn’t matter which party they both saw the City right..
Yeah, both have become troublesome in their capacity.
PRI not PPI.
Private Finance Initiative. Payback costs are something like 300bn over 60 years iirc.
At baked in interest rates that are now unbelievably profitable. Railway rolling stock is stunning, with a life of a decade plus it is written off and replaced every 7 years.
PPE won’t become less useful just because an accountant crossed them off a ledger. If nothing else it will be good to have stocks for next time.
You and I might think that but according to the Mail (can’t see it on MailonLine) page 2 paper copy today “3.4B units identified as potential excess stock worth £2.2B……. 6.96B are not provided to frontline services…of these 1.2B deemed to be not fit for use £458M……….range of measures for surplus…..selling, recycling..extend shelf life dates.”
This is classic ‘not our money’ spending or as put by the Lib Dems “extreme negligence on an industrial scale”. No doubt most of it came from China.
We ordered more than we needed during an unprecedented pandemic. What would/did people say when we didn’t have enough. 👍
They moaned. And now, they moan!
Unless it’s the vaccine or Furlough, both successful but they can be silently ignored! Or slated by Macron and EU.
Some people are just tribal or miserable one or the other.
Daniele, a lot of material was not fit for purpose… a lot of waste.
Yes, lots. All a panic to get the stuff given the stick HMG were taking.
And, lots from China!
Hardly BJs fault given he’d been in power for 3 or 4 months, but I know we covered it here a few years back and previously HMG got rid of lots of their contingency stock. Some exercise even warned of the risk and it was ignored. Mr Bell and Jonathon covered it at length I recall.
PPE has an expiry date, that’s why they’ll be written off.
In a pandemic it’s better to have too much PPE than too little. 🤷🏻♂️
👍
Some has expiry dates & become unusable over time.
There was a report on Deutshe Welle last night that covered that, and pointed out that Germany has much the same problem in its Covid programme.
Thanks, I suspect it will be true all over the World as Covid goes out with a wimper that was not expected by PPE buyers.
“Well known” has never convicted anyone.
A conviction for theft, or most other things in Ukraine??? Not if you cross the right palms.
I believe UK ordered around 14,000 NLAWs in 2009, So we’ve given them roughly 15% of out total stock.
That many? Excellent.
Can someone remind me of that article that appeared a few days ago about how France was such a force of good and how they took on their military obligations? Can you now all see why an EU defence force would be such a joke….best for the UK to stick with our true friends which are the US, Canada, Australia and to a lesser extent New Zealand…so glad we left the EU…they are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in a crisis…
The opinion piece that did not receive much in the way of general acclaim in the comments section. Nor from the editors I would guess. It’s still available online in a perhaps less fastidious location.
Oh if one good thing has come out of this it’s shown the EU by which I mean France and Germany for the pathetic waste of space they are. Stick to wonky bananas and leave the serious stuff to the grown ups.
That is a rather ridiculous statement David to be honest. You conflate NATO with the EU, 2 different organisations with very different roles. Both France and Germany now dwarf the UK in military numbers. They both have half as many again fast jet combat aircraft and can deploy larger numbers of field brigades. Both have offered fighter jets to reinforce NATO in Romania. If NATO requests a larger military buildup, no reason to suppose they won’t comply. The fact that we have deployed a River gunboat.and T45 to the Black Sea is probably seen as a pretty useless PR exercise… Read more »
Just read the french ambassador has been kicked out of Mali:
Andrew, I think that piece must be in the fiction section……
This article lacks serious balance. Rather than parroting what is spoonfed by a morally bankrupt Govt, how about feeding context for balance… UK is building naval base opening in… UK is deploying X forces… other NATO forces have also delivered/will deliver UK have delivered Y anti armour weapons… which might leave the firer exposed and may be negated by top bar armour UK has trained Z number of Ukrainian troops… Afghan troops ran. A weeks traini g against time taken for a British soldier is… RC135s are deploying over the Ukraine… the gap in capability is covered by ABC or… Read more »
So much negativity in these recent threads and no mention of the UK’s world-beating assets like Astute. Or that it seems this massive stunt is already backfiring on Putin. Nord Stream II has been postponed. US is about to unveil stronger sanctions that they’ve ever even contemplated before, hitting every single Russian’s pension. There is a very strong bipartisan bill emerging that will do this as well as target ALL the oligarchs, plus add a new, more aggressive support package for Ukraine. This is uniting US politicians and it’s Putin’s doing.
Hello and welcome to the UK. You’ll get used to us in time. That or immune.
Well said Ron but most Negativity tends to go towards the hallowing out of the UK’s army and rightly so , and then you get Poster like JohninMK who thinks Putin and his forces can do nothing wrong in his eyes and is always willing to Sh#t on anything UK where he actually comes from is up to debate lol a very strange fellow.
Hello Dave, you rang?
It all depends on timescale and in the period that I have been actively watching, 2014 on, the Russians, not just Putin, have barely put a foot wrong. Before that is a different age for me. Its a crying shame that we have not done the same on the same timescale, what with seriously reduced budgets, equipment procurement issues, Afghanistan etc. Are you really surprised that on a balanced view over that timescale my comments are as they are?
😂
I’ve pointed out to you where in just one theatre, Russia has put multiple steps wrong. Care to correct your statement?
I’m sorry but I can’t recall you doing so, can you link it please?
It was yesterday!
I need a better hint than that please.
Well you don’t have to reply Ivan. First half of your comment just confirms what I have sad about you before totally delusional ,as for reduced Budgets etc most of that was done before Putin made military moves on the Ukraine, Putin has the luxury of being a autocracy and spending 15% of his Budget on the military while domestic Budget is reduced instead , he does not have to worry about his peoples votes. I seem to remember the first year of Obamas administration the democrats reached out to Russia to reset its relations, the Photo op with Hillary… Read more »
Sad*Said
I agree with both your points. You can’t rob Peter to pay Paul (Navy) when threats are increasing (now) across the board. But again, hopefully this helps spur positive change I have a feeling it will. As to your second point he is blatant.
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Some points Ron. Yes, the Astute is a top class asset but we only have a handful and we only have a few other top class assets. This massive stunt as you put it seems to be being driven by your leadership and their plan to kill NS2 was well underway before it started. All that has happened is that it is delayed, both pipes are full of gas and ready to go once the delayed paperwork is done, probably in the summer, unless the EU gets a really cold winter and they need it. Ironically, the increase in gas… Read more »
John wrote: “”Some points Ron. Yes, the Astute is a top class asset but we only have a handful and we only have a few other top class assets.”” Not sure if the above is about the positioning of Subs s in the black sea, the problem there is the Montreux Convention forbids NATO (other than Turkey) from sending subs through the straits. Also no more than 9 foreign (read that as NATO) can be in the Black sea at any one time and they cannot exceed 15K tonnes. “”Ironically, the increase in gas prices caused by your interference has… Read more »
Sadly Putin’s paid trolls and his useful idiots are present on this site 🤷🏻♂️
I find the more you keep the trolls talking the more and more they sound ridiculous.
Agreed, the slide down the slope of incredulity and over the edge of implausibility into the chasm of surrealism 😏
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This is exactly the same strategy the UK used against Nazi Germany – stand up for the ‘small guy’ and sensible governments will come around to your thinking.
In 2022 if Britain and the US expect NATO (with the exception of Poland) to pull its weight I believe we are in for a major disappointment, Both France and Germany are beholding to Russia and the minor states like Denmark, Belgium etc will simply follow suit. The realpolitik of today is nothing like the Cold war years. NATO is long past its sell by date many of its members dont even meet their agreed defensive level of spending. And the Greater German EU wants its own military and wants it outside of NATO C & C . Britain needs… Read more »
Denmark has sent four F16 to the Baltic States and a frigate to patrol the Baltic sea. To say the rest of NATO isn’t doing anything is not true
Seems nobody likes the Germans efforts. Not too sure what people expect from them. I heard they are sending typhoons out to Romania. It takes along time to turn the tide of the military downturn to which Germany has been suffering from. I don’t blame them. They were the front line for the Cold War and we’re due a break. Germany’s only option just now is to get gas from Russia. It doesn’t have a major gas terminal it could bring enough gas ships into to allow it to cut off Russia. If it was to build one that takes… Read more »
Putin is just a man & won’t live forever.
The political system putin has created means his way always wins. As soon as there is any kind of opposition it is snuffed out. Will Russia’s current way of doing things die with putin. Who knows. So much potential for the country if we could just get along nicely. Next time 10-20 years will be interesting as putin gets very old and a lot of Russia expensive kit just get to old to be used. The navy especially. I doubt it can afford to replace everything. Still a powerful force but I wonder where they will put the resources and… Read more »
Does anyone else find it utterly tragic that the leader of our nation cancelled a call with Putin at a time when we could be see the sparking of a general war in Europe. Not for a major crisis ( which I could accept) but Because he has to go to Parliament to defend that fact that the leadership of this nation was having parties And getting drunk when everyone else were locked in their homes for the greater good. Im sure Putin has weighed that one up in his calculations of how far he can push the west. Nations… Read more »
Johathan wrote: Does anyone else find it utterly tragic that the leader of our nation cancelled a call with Putin at a time when we could be see the sparking of a general war in Europe. He didn’t cancel it, it has been postponed as (as reported by the guardian) the Russians couldn’t change the timings due to the British PM having to answer to Parliament regards the Sue Gray report on –as mentioned- parties. but Because he has to go to Parliament to defend that fact that the leadership of this nation was having parties And getting drunk when everyone… Read more »
It wouldn’t be the first time. 1992 – 97.
Sorry Farouk, but the PM was not forced to address Parliament at that time Yesterday, he chose to. He could have priorities the call to Putin over this insanity he and the leadership of Downing Street have created As he can chose the time he addresses parliament. as for the other things you mentioned, I don’t really give a shit if junior staff act like idiots as long as it’s all transparent and the are brought to heal. senior leaders are there to lead and model integrity and honour. I personally cancelled lots of face to face contacts with my… Read more »
I TRULY DESPAIR SOMETIMES READING SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON HERE. This morning I am sat in my office overlooking a plethora of RN, USN,USCG, UAE, BDF vessels and others . All are in range of Houthi ballistic missiles or drone strikes. They are in range of strikes by Iranian missiles. Most got here by travelling through the SOH and the BAM. Most , (though not all as there is a USN AB here at the moment) are armed with 30mm guns at most. What was the Govts of those countries thinking sending lightly armed vessels into the ( Tax… Read more »
Quick ammend…Add the JDF to the list…one of their destroyers is now alongside.
We have a right multi national regatta thing going on!
Wish I had your view but not in that location.
It’s a sad state of affair. The folks in power do not have a grasp on what it takes to have an effective military. It’s always a gamble between the cost and capability.
Hopefully one day we can all just get along nicely.
Haha can’t believe I just wrote that
I feel your pain mate. Common sense goes out of the window when it comes to the comments section.
And in other news…Australia Defense apparently not happy with Hunter Class Frigates (Modified Type 26) not clear if issue is ‘the British Design’ or the Australian modiifcations to that design
Classified report reveals new fleet of warships ‘slower and unsafe’ (msn.com)
Anyone know anymore ?
Their assault ship is TU in Tonga with a power failure…Its not just a T45 thing…all ships get power issues!
yes indeed GB but the article appears to be pointing to design and functionality issues rather than reliability issue. Having said that it is also likely to be a couple of individuals with a chip on shoulder over initial selection decision. The vagueness of the text in report leaves door open to the Australian modifications potentially causing the issues. Dug out this article from May 21 saying the Australian modifications had substantially added to the overall weight of the vessel compared to the UK version with only a 3% weight allowance remaing…at that stage. Design issues weigh down $45b frigate… Read more »
If it is the modification issues that are the trigger then its similar to the ‘Ajax’ experience. Take a sound design and bastardise it to the extent it compromises the original design. Time will tell I guess.
Check out the wiki on Type 26 frigate. Compare the stated full load of the T26 vs Hunter – 8000t + vs 11000t….big difference.
And an apsi write up said a 32 VLS wasn’t enough…..
wow..big difference indeed. Whats that..about 38% heavier. Not much wonder. The press in Australia are highlighting the flawed ‘British Design’…
Cheers
Pete
I have worked on ANZAC’s. They are top heavy due to the indigenous CEAFAR radar they use( Its V heavy and needs up mast chilled water cooling) which required a shed load of ballast to be added to counter it. The T26 will be a massive step change for the better in capabilities. As to the other comments take it with a pinch of salt. The bit about floodwaters made me smile. With the issues the RN had with Southampton being hit with a tanker and various rocks around the world that Brazen, Nottingham and others hit, the RN is… Read more »
Cheers GB
This piece is a red rag to the Red Flag: the house trolls from Ivan are out in force. One can almost hear the strains of the Song of the Volga Boatmen.