Foreign Secretary Liz Truss has expressed the UK’s support for Ukraine and stressed NATO’s role as she attended a virtual NATO Foreign Ministers’ meeting.

The above image shows British soldiers on exercise in Ukraine.

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Rob
Rob
12 days ago

Words are cheap and Putin knows it. I’d suggest the message would hit home if NATO immediately bumped defence spending upwards, across all members, by 1% of GDP. Remember we won the first Cold War by draining the Russian economy through requiring them to match NATO spending. That strategy will work again because Russia can’t hope to match NATO economically.

JohninMK
JohninMK
12 days ago
Reply to  Rob

There is no possibility of European countries upping defence spending by much let alone that much. As to outspending the Russians forcing them to match it, they seem to be resolutely refusing to do so. Back then the Russians were not top rank energy suppliers which changed everything. Instead it is the US that is under the economic cosh having to print huge amounts of $ debt to fund its bloated defence budget. They pull out of huge spends in Afghanistan and the budget goes up???

andy eeves
andy eeves
11 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

the u.s military is under the biggest restrictions budgetwise since anyone can remember its not beyond possibility that americas military influences could go the way that the brish forces went in the 1960’s

simon
simon
11 days ago
Reply to  andy eeves

USA Defence Budget 2022 is USD770 Billion vs 2021 USD725 Billion. Hardly under pressure !!

GR
GR
9 days ago
Reply to  simon

Compared to the inflation rate that’s a real term decrease.

dave12
dave12
11 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

With Russia having a economy smaller than Italy gas exports is the only thing keeping it afloat , as for military spending its a benefit for Russia to be a dictatorship to take up 15% of its budget while its peoples living standard decreases and suffers ,hence the wests much much higher living standard Ivan.

Meirion x
Meirion x
11 days ago
Reply to  dave12

Yes just like the elites in Kazakhstan have helped themselves to the wealth, the Kazai phenomenon could rear it’s ugly head in Russia any time soon.

Last edited 11 days ago by Meirion x
dave12
dave12
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

👍

Meirion x
Meirion x
11 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Just watch your back Mr Putin,
your people are going rise up against you soon! You still haven’t told us where you have hidden Russia’s money?

Last edited 11 days ago by Meirion x
Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

It’s unlikely, unfortunately it’s not in the character of the Russian people to rise up against the strong man. look how long it took them to rebel against the Imperial Russian state which was a system that had been overthrown in Western Europe 200-400 years before. nations have responsive government because of the likelihood of the population to exert pressure. The big reason England was so successful was that every leader for the mid Middle Ages knew that there was only so far they could push as the English have made it a hobby of killing off members of the… Read more »

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

As you said Jonathan, the Russian people rebelled eventually, against the old Imperial Russian state, and they most likely do so again in future against the present ‘mafia state’.

andy eeves
andy eeves
11 days ago
Reply to  Rob

the old wasaw pact failed militarily because technology wise and quality wise it couldn’t keep up with NATO and money for the military was in short supply due to the financial state of its economysurely the enforcement upon russia and china may be the wests best response to their global intentions?

Rob
Rob
11 days ago
Reply to  andy eeves

My point exactly Andy. If we can get Germany to cancel the ruddy gas pipeline and confiscate all Putin’s ill gotten gains squirreled away in the west (we should then put it in a trust fund for return to the Russian people when we can, remember they are the worst losers in all this), then Putin’s mafia regime has nowhere to go. Can the mafia state compete with NATO’s massive economy – No and never will.

Graham
Graham
10 days ago
Reply to  Rob

It was really the US under Reagan, rather than NATO, that forced the USSR into an arms race that the latter could not afford.

andy eeves
andy eeves
11 days ago

is it just me or does it look like push is coming to shove with russia and that as things stand we are close to a real flashpoint incident?

Last edited 11 days ago by andy eeves
Red Hanrahan
Red Hanrahan
11 days ago

The military equivalent of sending someone a strongly worded letter. NATO is not going to go to war with a nuclear armed state over Ukraine. The Biden administration has already signaled its unwillingness to deploy forces, and it’s insane to think the Britain would without America’s backing.

Meirion x
Meirion x
11 days ago
Reply to  Red Hanrahan

So has NATO nuclear armed states.
it just cancels out! The US could strike Russian warpons storage or nuclear warpon sites with accurate conventional warpons, they might intend to use, they would have No justification to retaliate with Nuclear weapons.
It is just the matter of Biden getting a spine!

Last edited 11 days ago by Meirion x
Red Hanrahan
Red Hanrahan
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

….and then the Russians retaliate with conventional weapons, and it escalates.

Meirion x
Meirion x
11 days ago
Reply to  Red Hanrahan

The Russians are totally out gunned by NATO/US in quantity and quality of systems.

Last edited 11 days ago by Meirion x
Gsreth
Gsreth
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

When it comes to nuclear war being “outgunned” is kind of a meaningless concept.

Jonathan
Jonathan
9 days ago
Reply to  Gsreth

Well yes and know, there is a cut of point, effectively anything over 50 low yield warheads each would Likely cause a castrophic failure of worldwide food production over around a 5-7 year period, killing a good billion or two.

Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

That’s all very well, but since attacking Russia would trigger a major European war that would involve huge numbers of casualties across all of Europe I think not if it’s ok with you. Also what would be the aim and objective, we can’t invade and overthrow or take over Russia ( france and German both tried that one). Simply destruction of Russia’s armed forces would lead to a Russia that had one aim ( rebuilding and destruction of Western Europe). Any major war with Russia is a zero sum game that will reignite an age strife and suffering for Europe… Read more »

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The aim and objective of a strike on Russian forces, would be to halt offence Russian forces inside Ukraine’s border and send them back over the border, similar to the Gulf War of 1991. At least the Ukrainians have substantial ground forces to resist invading forces, unlike unlucky Kuwait. They would still need extensive air support. A spin-off would be the overthrow of Putin.

I totally agree with your last paragraph Jonathan!

Last edited 10 days ago by Meirion x
Red Hanrahan
Red Hanrahan
10 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

…and if NATO started to make material gains, the Russians would deploy their nuclear arsenal. If you think you can win a nuclear engagement you belong back in the 1950’s.

Ulya
Ulya
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

Do you really believe what you write? This is one of the funniest comments I have read. If the US attack Russia nuclear weapons sites we would have every justification to use our nuclear weapons. Use it or lose it

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

It’s like he/she/it actually wants WW3…

Ulya
Ulya
11 days ago

Making sure you use correct pronouns?
Yes you are correct, obviously I have very different point of view to many here but some comments are just very silly.
I have been away up far north so not had chance to say happy new year to you. I pray nothing happens between our countries and we can continue to talk this year. Peace be with you

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

No. I had such a surreal, ridiculous exchange on another thread, I am actually wondering if I was talking to a bot, troll, he, she, I have no idea. Enjoy. Several happy exchanges. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/increased-presence-of-british-surveillance-aircraft-near-ukraine/ Apparently I’m actually a traitor and on your ( Russia’s ) side, for simply believing NATO going to war with Russia over Ukraine, a non NATO country, is not justifiable. Another useful idiot then says I’m defending a mafia state. If Russia attacks NATO, then yes, NATO is a defensive alliance and must defend itself against you. He/she/it has of course headed for the hills ever… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

And with you Ulya. I did post a reply explaining my words, but it is awaiting approval.

Ulya
Ulya
10 days ago

Good morning Daniele,
You do not need to explain your words, I did understand, I just made poor joke instead so am sorry if I make you feel uncomfortable. My partner being a westerner has unsuccessfully been trying to educate me about this pronoun thing that is happening but I have little interest

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
10 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

No, you have got the “wrong end of the stick” Ulya.

I was not on about pronouns either, but Trolls.

James William Fennell
James William Fennell
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

The problem with Russia is that it’s people have always been slaves, to the Czars, the Sovs and now Putin and police state of ex-KGB stooges. It serves autocrats well to focus the people’s minds on nationalist/expansionist dreams or foreign threats, real or imagined (the Argentine Junta had the same policy). The truth is that economically Russia is a minnow. We need to call Putin’s bluff and then move on to the real threat to Western values, China.

Last edited 11 days ago by James William Fennell
Ulya
Ulya
11 days ago

Blah blah, west is good, east is bad, western values. The battle cry of those with no self awareness. I love your confidence that you are capable of dealing with both Russia and China. You know where Russia is, you have moved to our borders, feel free to see if we are bluffing

James William Fennell
James William Fennell
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

You should be grateful that you are entitled to your opinion here in the West. I doubt that is the case for me in either Russia or China

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago

Precisely again!

Ulya
Ulya
10 days ago

“doubt”, why not just use highly likely or any other phase to justify your opinion is just opinion because you are ignorant of the facts?
But just for balance, older generation who grew up under CCCP are generally not comfortable expressing their opinions, my post CCCP generation you can’t make shut up. We even manage to have conversations without calling people trolls

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago

Precisely James, If only Britain had defended the Falklands properly in 1982, we would of saved lives.
The same applies to the Czech Lands in 1938, No WW2!

Last edited 10 days ago by Meirion x
Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

Yes as it’s always been an international understanding that the nuclear powers would only go after each other’s nuclear deterrents in the case of nuclear war and that to do so is the first step in a nuclear war. We do have a real problem between Russia and NATO countries around what was traditionally the Russian near abroad and is now very much a set of countries that have become more European. What is unfortunate is I think both Russia and the western democracies have a common long term geopolitical opponent in China that is a threat to both in… Read more »

Ulya
Ulya
11 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I agree both Russia and the west have our concern regarding China but we see those concerns differently, from Russia perspective it is possible loss of Siberia, but strong nuclear force and good relationship ‘hopefully’ will be enough to make them understand long term it is cheaper to pay in money than blood, we burn then so do they. From western side you want to maintain western dominance and will happily use Russia land and blood for that. I care nothing about the Wests position. I have no trust the west will operate in good faith or honour any agreement,… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

Yes Ulya it’s a deep and abiding problem. But one I think we need to work on. I agree there is little chance of Western Europe and Russia being close friends in the medium term, but that can change. You have to remember the British and french hated each other with a profound passion for around 500 years, Yet now we just sort of like to poke each other with a good natured stick in the ribs now and then. My personal view on NATO is that it’s for some reason lost its way ( it probably should have been… Read more »

Ulya
Ulya
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Such a interesting reply, thank you Jonathan, I will try to answer as much a possible. Russia/Europe relation, short and medium term there will be no change, long term it is in both our interests for things to improve based on mutual respect, right now that respect is missing. China, maybe you are right Russia is making a mistake, but right now we have friendly China and hostile west so it is only logical what direction we look, as for food/resources, I am part owner in 2 farms, 72 and 68% all go to China, we are currently looking to… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

Cheers for the reply. It’s very interesting what you are saying around where your food exports are going. The science is pretty clear that there is a real economic future for Russia in food production. The warming models suggest that the only way Northern European, Northern area of North America and Northern Asian food production is up ( more sunshine, more rain = longer growing seasons and greater yields = more crops) At the same time food production is going to drop through the floor In the USA, Southern Europe, china, India etc. Which means all that land in Russia… Read more »

Graham
Graham
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

How has NATO lost its way. It has continued to enlarge since the end of the Cold War, Article 5 was called for the first time ever due to 9/11 thus showing relevance in a new era of international terrorism, and it has operated outside its traditional areas.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Graham

Hi Graham I will give you a couple of key examples I think are a real structural problem for NATO. 1) in reality NATO was set up as solution to a single problem and that was to counter a Soviet invasion of Western Europe. 2) Article 5 is essentially pointless in regards to any activity by China as as such makes it now almost a functionally irrelevance for the biggest geopolitical problem faced by western liberal democracies. 3) however we may see it in the west Russia and its people viewed the expansion of NATO into what its classes as… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Very interesting. A lot to chew over. On balance, I would rather retain NATO though than opt for some EU equivalent (that several countries, including the UK, could not join) or a new organisation that would have to start from cold in the midst of Russian agitation. NATO has over 70 years of experience and has credibility and well-honed doctrine, governance, procedures, standing headquarters etc.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Oh I agree, we can’t look at changing Nato now, that needed to be done at the end of the Cold War. What we do need to do is think about what other alliances need to be built to start to fill in the gaps and weaknesses of NATO. First and foremost: How do we stabilise and ensure Ukraine and other Eastern European nations can be a secure safe independent buffer between Western Europe and Russia. I think this is now coming to a crunch point. I honest think there could be a very strong Eastern European self protection alliance,… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
9 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

NATO changed a huge amount at the end of the Cold War – I have always been puzzled by commentators who do not see that and think that NATO lost its way, didn’t change and was stuck in the past. NATO now includes much of central Europe and Eastern Europe. The only countries that can form a buffer between Russia and NATO are Ukraine and Moldova (forget Belarus as they are pro-Russian). Does your Eastern European self protection alliance just cover these 2 countries or are you suggesting that the eastern European NATO countries leave NATO and join your new… Read more »

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

A Gasbaged and gaslighted, all-in-one comment!

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

Just don’t strike a match 💥

George Faulds
George Faulds
11 days ago
Reply to  Ulya

You’ve clearly been playing too much “modern warfare”. War is death,desruction and hell for countless numbers of people,present and future and there are no winners.Thankfully the only button you could ever press is on your keyboard.

Ulya
Ulya
8 days ago
Reply to  George Faulds

Hello George, sorry for slow reply, nothing to do with games, simple fact that Russia is a big country with small population, despite all the media hype about Russia military it is small and we do not have reserve army like your territorial soldiers, we have lots of ex soldiers that can be called up but that takes time we probably won’t have. East and West we have 2 blocks that have bigger population, bigger military and more money, our ability to defend against this is limited, so given option of defeat for just us or going nuclear so defeat… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

I’m pretty much sure that every nuclear power has made it clear that a strike against it nuclear deterrent is the equivalent of a nuclear attack and will be responded to in that way. Its pretty much acknowledged to be definition of a stepping over the big red line and kicking of a war between nuclear powers. What is happening at present is pretty standard Geopolitics between great powers as they push to understand where the lines are, it’s happened In countries across the globe during the Cold War, nothing is really new. Its pretty shitty for the county that’s… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
11 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

A voice of sanity in a sea of Hawks looking for war.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick. A first strike against another nations “Crown Jewells” in the form of their nuclear arsenal is not speaking softly, its insanity that leads to WW3.

I’ve noticed for some time these Russia/Ukraine articles are often flooded by Hawk type posts.

Neither appeasement or full on confrontation will work in my view. There needs to be a middle ground.

Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago

Yep, listen to russia and then get them to listen to us. acknowledge that we can and would destroy each other in an all out war. Draw our red lines and be very clear where they are. Then make sure we have the military capability to enforce our red lines. Its a mistake to push NATO closer to Russia than it is. Being a member of NATO is not some form of human or sovereign right it’s a mutual defence organisation for the present members and it should not: 1) engage in any form of destabilising expansion ( that’s what… Read more »

Netking
Netking
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

This is insanity. Attacking a Russian nuclear storage facility is enough justification to almost guarantee a nuclear response coming back from Russia.

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Netking

The U.S. NPR of 2018 has provisions to counter a Russian first use of a nuclear weapon. And looked like classified provisions as well.

Last edited 10 days ago by Meirion x
Graham
Graham
10 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

The US does not want to embark on WW3 for any reason, let alone in support of Ukraine. American engagement in Europe militarily has only been as a result of western Europe being threatened.

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Graham

European enlargement, has been supported by the US, and is now threatened.

Jay R
Jay R
11 days ago

“and other services”….hhhmm. Ukraine Su-27s have been at the Air Tattoo the past few years. I wonder how much support BAE provide in keeping the Ukraine’s fleet of Flankers in the air? I bet there is nothing Russian about the electronic warfare systems in those jets.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago

I thought that Mr Putin would have gone for a Christmas or New Year offensive in the Ukraine so he could get all his pieces in position while we in the West were tripping the light fantastic on Christmas leave. But the fact that he did not seems to say he is having second thoughts or he is looking for a legitimate excuse to kick off. Now he also has Kazakhstan to play with and already they are using words like “foreign backed and trained terrorists” so we could see a clime down in the Ukraine if Russia gets more… Read more »

Jay R
Jay R
11 days ago

Kazakhstan will probably not deflect anything from the Ukraine. Seems like Russia are slowly taking the Ukraine inch by inch, simply by making a presence at the border. Waitng for an opportunity, a reason to launch an offensive. In the end, a war in europe over the Ukraine will be inevitable. There will be no winners. Ukraine will be split in two. And Cold War 2 will commence. There are millions of people in Eastern Europe who are not anti russian and pro west (Belarus, Serbia). God save the queen.

Jon
Jon
11 days ago
Reply to  Jay R

Launch an offensive? Don’t you mean quell the instability and civil war that has unfortuntely plagued the Eastern Ukraine for far too long, and help protect and give voice to the legitimate concerns of ethnic Russians in Donbass?

I think he’ll wait to take Belarus first, which he’s looking to to do bloodlessly.

Frank62
Frank62
11 days ago
Reply to  Jon

“I think he’ll wait to take Belarus first,”

Belarus is a close Putin ally, so no need to “take” it. Pity the population under repression & poverty.

Last edited 11 days ago by Frank62
Jon
Jon
10 days ago
Reply to  Frank62

He’s angling for the Union State of Russia and Belarus to become effectively a Russian Fedaration through a popular vote. A close enough union would see Belarus independance swallowed up by Russia.

Meirion x
Meirion x
11 days ago
Reply to  Jay R

“Seems like Russia are slowly taking the Ukraine inch by inch…”
Not happening!
The Russian sponsored mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine have been losing ground there lately, with the Ukrainians being supplied with better warpons, that’s why Russia is threatening to invade.

Last edited 11 days ago by Meirion x
Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago
Reply to  Jay R

Hello Jay, The new cold war has already started, and the likes of Belarus and Serbia have always been traditional allies to Russia but I just wonder how strong that friendship will be when the body bags start coming home.

Meirion x
Meirion x
11 days ago

It is Christmas Day in Russia today, in their old Julian calendar.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

But the Russian troops have not been sent home on Christmas leave

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago

It is up to the ordinary Russian squaddies to start complaining of having to comp out in the cold!

Jacko
Jacko
11 days ago

All this sabre rattling over the Ukraine and Russia is it actually going to come to Russia invading? It’s not as if the Ukraine has been sitting idle waiting for the invasion is it? They have had plenty of time to prepare for said eventuality and even IF Russia was daft enough to go ahead the casualty count is going to be very high! Would the people be prepared to except this?
Hopefully we will not have to find out.

David Steeper
David Steeper
11 days ago
Reply to  Jacko

Yep hopefully Putin doesn’t want to find out either.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago
Reply to  Jacko

They have already invaded Jacko, but we did not have the balls to do anything about the Crimea and the Eastern states of the Ukraine so I very much doubt we will do anything now apart from stop selling Jonny Walker to the Kremlin

Tams
Tams
11 days ago

The sanctions are much greater than that.

And Ukraine is still largely intact. Perhaps if ghe entirety of Ukraine is under threat, NATO might enter a war, as if Ukraine falls, some NATO members are going to get incredibly tetchy and demand large increases in military expenditure and deployment.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago
Reply to  Tams

Hello Tams, and the Crimea ? the Ukraine has lost most of its deep water harbours and ship building areas not to mention the poor excuse to occupy the eastern regions of the Ukraine. I would say it is far from “Largely intact” as you put it. I do not think the sanction are going to work and as you rightly stated the military expenditure has to increase across Nato but if we had a radical re-think and doubled our defence expenditure over night it would take 10 years at least to make up what we have lost in capability.… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
11 days ago

When you say ‘we did not have the balls to do anything about Crimea and the Eastern states’ who are you referring too – The West/Nato/The EU ? And what do you suggest should have been done to prevent it ?.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago
Reply to  Paul T

Hello Paul, All the above and militarily we can not do much, but the sanctions that are talked of now should have been put in place back in 2014 so by 2022 we would have been talking of getting the Russians out of the the Ukraine altogether and not talking of keeping the status quo with Russia occupying the Crimea for the foreseeable future.

Frank62
Frank62
11 days ago

We will defend democracy in eastern Europe and around the world.”

So we will be on hand to deter & respond to any PRC attempts to invade Taiwan I hope, rather than the usual “not our problem, too far away” some trot out.(Just found how to turn italics off!)

It is vital we stop aggressive tyrannies destabilising free democracies. It was very refreashing & heartening to watch the House of Lords debate on Russian strategic thinking on BBC Parliament. Seems people in government are finally waking up to the very real danger to western democracies by our naive weakness.

Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago
Reply to  Frank62

Hi frank, we do need to take care with the democracy bit, what about when the majority of a population don’t want a democracy? Or a totalitarian state is proving a stable fair government ?

Im all up for defending our interests and support stable moral governments, just not some Moral crusade to make the world a democracy.

Frank62
Frank62
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

What we should want is good government & reasonable freedom to live our lives. I’ve plenty of criticism for our own “democratic” government where the FPTP system disenfranchises the majority & allows all the shots to be called by a minority, albeit the largest minority, but that’s another debate. Moral crusades are all well & good depending on who’s morality is pursued. The CCP have moral crusades where the only good is wether you endorse the CCP & Chinese culture. Here in the West not everything lauded a progress is going in the right direction. God will judge.

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Frank62

I’m a firm believer in you can only really Police yourself. So as you say keep our own house in order, act responsibly on the international stage and support a very basic set of rules via international agreement and only deal closely ( the carrot) with nations that have a basic set of standards and don’t cross some set moral red lines: not using WMD or mass murder, slavery, having the rule of law ect other than that Nations and populations can be governed as they choose without getting western views shoved at them.

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
11 days ago

Germany needs to start work on one or more massive LPG terminals – that will concentrate minds in the Kremlin

Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago

While being strong and ensuring we are able to defend ourselves we do need to try and understand what drives Russia to behave in this way, Putin is not the communists party with an avowed aim of destroying the west, he’s a traditional Russian strong man leader and is acting that way ( we need to think of him more as a king that a communist party leader). We must always remember that Russia sees Western Europe as a potential existential threat to its existence. Western European’s powers have generally always been more aggressive and powerful that Russia ( not… Read more »

Last edited 11 days ago by Jonathan
Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
11 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Well apart from Napoleon and Hitler who both fell into the same trap of underestimating the Russian winters I would say the opposite is true from your statement, The Rus were originally the Vikings that travelled East and settled in areas we now know as Russia, The word Rus was original given to them by the Arab speaking countries who were plagued by there raids into their territories. In the WW11 the Russian lost more people under Starlin than they did by apposing Hitler. Then if we look at how the Eastern European countries were treated under the USSR you… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
11 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Bravo. This is my view too. I have tried expressing this opinion and understanding of Russia multiple times, but the hawks on UKDJ don’t like it one bit.

So careful you’re not branded a traitor….

Keep your friends close. And your enemies closer.

First step in that is no way give Ukraine or Georgia NATO membership.

To people remember 1962 and how the US reacted to Russian missiles on its doorstep?

Last edited 11 days ago by Daniele Mandelli
Jonathan
Jonathan
11 days ago

Yes Cuba is a very interesting case study of how the US reacts to a potential existential threat on its doorstep. There is very little difference between the behaviour of the US to Cuba or a number of Central American countries. The US has always been incredible aggressive to any geopolitical threat ( even the U.K.). We do like to dress ourselves in pretty moral clothes but as I have said a number of time nations do not have morals or ethics. geopolitics is a dance of power and influence where nations use the playbook that works best for them… Read more »

James William Fennell
James William Fennell
10 days ago

We need to avoid a War. We forget that Poland and Czech only became countries after WW1. Both Germany and the USSR wanted to recolonise them in the 1930s – which they did – leading to a world war. Imagining Ukraine or Georgia as somehow having less rights than any other nation because they were historically occupied by Russia refutes the international order. Should the UK demand that Ireland be not admitted to the EU so we can control it? Or India or Kenya be excluded from the UN? Obviously not.

Last edited 10 days ago by James William Fennell
Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Your comment is just the same, gaslighting for Putin’s Russia.
I would be dread of serving on the front line with you!

Last edited 10 days ago by Meirion x
Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

What front line are you talking about ? your world view would have caused a nuclear exchange between the major nuclear powers leading the end of all human civilisation so there would not be a front. As for your comments as to my willingness to suffer or act for the service of my nation or put myself in danger to protect my colleagues, you can in the nicest possible way “ Piss right off”. I actual try to understand what is driving the great powers and geopolitical forces, as do thank goodness most of our leaders. I will leave you… Read more »

Meirion x
Meirion x
10 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

“…you can in the nicest possible way “ Piss right off.”
The same to You, of one o’mighty of a gasbag gaslighter!!

Last edited 10 days ago by Meirion x
Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

I think I just pissed myself laughing.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
10 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

The fact is “Meirion X” or whatever or whoever you are, is that you’ve just been comprehensively taken to the cleaners on a worldwide forum by Jonathan. Intellectually, historically, tactically, strategically, and geopolitically. And all you can come up with is a piffy P off back. No wonder he is laughing. I did it on the other thread, challenging your nonsense, that people here with a differing, more balanced opinion are not Russian sympathisers, “Gaslighters”, or whatever you want to call them. But those with a differing point of view. Simple as that. You called me a “Traitor” for my… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
10 days ago

Well said Daniele, I think the funniest thing is that he called you a traitor, since it’s clear from your posts your a firm supporter of our nation’s histories, values and ensuring our nation is able to defend itself. We can all have differing views on the right way forward and discuss them, that’s always been a strength of our nation. To be honest I use this forum to test a lot of my thoughts on geopolitics with other views and like getting really well thought out challenges or new information. For instance we have Ulya who gives some really… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Jonathan
Meirion x
Meirion x
9 days ago

“And all you can come up with is a piffy P off back. No wonder he is laughing,”
It was Jonathan who first cell me that Daniele, in his reply to me!
I stated my views further up the thread. What more did you want to know about my view?

Jonathan
Jonathan
9 days ago
Reply to  Meirion x

I did say P off related to your personal comment about me, I’m happy to debate and discuss all day long, but I don’t take kindly to personal comments about my character, I’m to long in the tooth to tolerate anyone telling me what I am. Your views are your own, on geopolitics I think your views are probably over aggressive and hawkish, but at present we have no idea which position is “right and which is “ and in all likelihood we will never know, as even when looking at the history of Geopolitics causation is debated and we… Read more »

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
4 days ago

The political landscape of Europe has changed, since Russia started pumping gas. They now have their own big stick to belt Countries with. Europe is in a worse position now that ever, regarding what Russia does and does not do.