The composite mast for second Type 26 Frigate HMS Cardiff has arrived in Glasgow from specialist supplier Umoe Mandal in Norway.
Below you can see images of the mast taken this morning.
Spot something new in these images? No? Ok, the composite mast for Type 26 Frigate HMS Cardiff has arrived by ship at the @BAES_Maritime yard in Govan, Glasgow. pic.twitter.com/nRiyKKXADQ
— George Allison (@geoallison) November 12, 2022
In 2020, Umoe Mandal was awarded a contract for three shipsets of composite mast and SCOT Sponsons structures for the Royal Navy’s first batch of Type 26 Frigates, designed and manufactured by BAE Systems.
Recently, work started to prepare HMS Glasgow for being moved onto a barge ahead of float-off.
The Type 26 represents the future backbone of the Royal Navy and eight of the class are planned, starting with HMS Glasgow. The eight ships will replace the eight dedicated anti-submarine Type 23 frigates which will reach the end of their active lives by the mid 2030s.
In addition to the Clyde built Type 26, five Rosyth built Type 31 general purpose frigates are intended to replace the general-purpose Type 23s currently in service and also coming towards the end of their long careers.
Sorry George – composite mast? Assume it’s that box-like thing and made of composite materials. Apologies for my ignorance but what does this mast do?
The tall mast has the primary radar sitting on top. It is very tall in order to give the longest low level detection of surface/sea skimming targets
It is made of composites in order to save weight, and reduce radar reflections thus contributing to stealth.
The Type 45 has a similar tall mast although It is steel, for much the same reason re. Low level detection. Also one of the reasons the Sampson radar goes round, to make a smaller/lighter radar head verses flat plates.
Good write up on the Sampson on “navy lookout”.
AA
“ The Type 45 has a similar tall mast although It is steel, for much the same reason re. Low level detection”
T45 has a steel base and then a steel frame, like an electricity pylon, that is clad in composite to reduce RCS. The composite is special for RCS purposes.
Sampson is very heavy and when spinning the forces are very, very large.
The masts were made by the same guys as the T26. I’ve posted the links before.
Righto. Thanks for the correction. AA
Really interesting when you start to consider the centrifugal force the mast has to be able to take….all at the same time as managing the dynamic forces on a ship at sea…centrifugal force mixed with dynamic pitching, rolling, surging, swaying, yawing and heaving….bugger doing the calculations for that.
Fixed panels may have more top weight… but there are less forces on the mast itself.
It will have been done for very, very good reasons based on the technology available.
Fixed labels do have limitations too!
There is good reason why T45 is best in AAW class.
The reason the T45 is Simply The Best is the SAMPSON RADAR. All the sums relating to 6.25Tonne “above the slew” rotating at 20r.p.m. were very carefully done. Lots of top-notch tech up there. B clever getting power and signals across the slew. Even more amazing clever tech “below the slew”. To this day there is unexplored latent capability in this beastie.
I’m confident the sums were more than carefully done and well checked to leave plenty of margin.
One of the joys of specialist ships is that they can be built without compromise to their specialism.
That is what people fail to understand when proposing to turn everything into a Swiss Army knife: like the Hunter class…the compromises start to affect the central focus.
Sorry, but that’s quite wrong. The Type 45 masts were built in steel by BVT in Portsmouth. I worked on them. You may be thinking of the mast fitted to one of the carriers, I think HMS Illustrious, which did have a steel frame and composite panels.
No they weren’t. What gives you that idea?
Thx for the navy lookout heads-up it was a very interesting read which demonstrates just how good that radar is while also demonstrating the problem this country (though not exclusively mind) faces in producing best in class but implications in cost and sales potential sadly.
It’s a very tall order….I like what you did there.
Thanks for the info, AA
Cheers
OT but not unexpected
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/11/11/rishi-sunak-cut-defence-spending-real-terms-despite-tough-stance/
Cutting defence spending to tackle an issue largely caused by a lack of defence spending. Love the logic.
Sure makes the Cons tough on defence…
Interesting piece on Newsnight last night about ‘austerity.’
Does sound like someone over-egging the cake to some extent.
What this Country needs is a wholesale clear out of public service accountants, lawyers and management; that’ll bring the public debt down.
Let’s start with ‘delay attribution minutes’ between Govt owned railway companies and Network Rail – also Govt owned.
We all know similar levels of waste; of course identifying such waste and getting rid of such people would hurt the Cons electorally.
Yes, I think there is some over egging going on so it won’t seem so bad when it comes. Overall the world seems to be turning a corner. Kherson retaken, bullies in government being called out, Trump being taken down a peg or two, immigrant deal between UK and FR, prospect of resolution of NI protocol issue. Fingers crossed for a warm winter?
Yes, the Russians have acted tactically – is that worrying?
Migrants / refugees / NI border, no, that has a long way to go before resolution, however, I admire your optimism!
As to the warm winter, can anyone explain why electric prices are linked to gas prices??? Seems like self inflicted pain.
DB: why electric prices are linked to gas prices?
Greed. They don’t mind & we don’t matter.
The explanation is simply because a lot of our Electricity generation capacity is Gas powered hence the link to the price of gas. It was at the time a cheaper and less polluting option than Coal. Nuclear generated Electricity is pretty constant (you just can’t switch it off and on). Wind is weather dependant and yes sometimes on very windy days during the summer it can provide most of the rest required. But Gas, Coal and Diesel generated are the back up and surge capacity (in that order). What is really daft is that to encourage the private investment required… Read more »
Yup! One RR mini nuke per 100k population, distributed according to population density; precise locations would be not spaffed all over the meedja
ABC beat me to it. We generate a lot of our electricity from gas turbines. They can be quickly run up to cope with peak demand. From the point of view of thermodynamic efficiency it’s better to generate electricity from renewables and use the gas for heating and cooking….give or take the CO2 of course
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/sep/electricity-prices-dictated-gas-producers-who-provide-less-half-uk-electricity
Not so fast. Gas producers are setting the price of electricity in Europe.
Now, all hail the Brexit fiasco and why are UK prices still linked to Europe?
Ahh the delights of being impacted by the club but not being around the table.
We should have stayed at the table… they’ll be passing the Port and laughing themselves stupid at the moment… New meaning to Les… Ros… Beefs, where the market is roasting and we are the beef.
Probably. Hopefully in the next 2-20 years we can work out if brexit has had a positive or negative effect on the uk. So far it appears mostly negative impacts. I really hope the brexit experiment has a positive impact on the uk and it’s citizens.
At the moment we are exporting huge amounts of electricity, plus huge amounts of gas which comes in via our LBG terminals – of which we have around 20% of European capacity. Very good for the balance of payments (to be frank we need everything we can get on that front), jobs, gives extra use of (ie helps pay for) capacity we need to backup fluctuations in renewables and so on. In Q2 the run rate of electricity exports was about £500m per month net (8% of production out, 3% in). Being in the market is a benefit to everyone… Read more »
Thank you Matt. I’m torn, on the one hand, I take your points about profits. On the other hand, price inflation means a single mother and her toddler are walking around indoors wearing hats and Parkas and dear old Rish! gave a get out of jail free card on the windfall tax to those companies making truly astounding profits. Now, we are moving into Project Doom and Gloom and talk of blackholes in the budget. The only positive note is the fightback… even the Daily Fail are putting some kicks in which make the Cons look incapable of running a… Read more »
Perhaps there will be an opportunity to revisit funding profile upon end of recession. 🤞
Recession is an opportunity to focus on essentials, figure out where you have been going wrong and do things smarter. A few lucky breaks would be nice; Putin retiring, Ajax working, a re-think on Brexit….and a realization that Adam Smith is just one input, not the entire f**ing computer program.
100%
Hello all, just a quick question if the government decided that the pace of building the t26 needed to be increased, could it be done as things stand.
Theoretically yes, although with projects of this size and complexity the availability of what is known as ‘long lead items’, such as Engines,Gearboxes and other major systems have a major effect on build times,the delivery of the Gearboxes were for instance delayed on Glasgow which meant they had to be fitted when the Ship was moved outside through holes cut in the Hull which is far from ideal.
Thank you Paul,
Off topic, how can Elon Musk get away with anything he does? I thought they were going to charge $8/month for identity verification, as the charge to a bank account in your name would be a way to verify your identity. Regardless of the fact that charging people $96/year for nothing of real value is preposterous, they didn’t even do that. It was a fraud free-for-all. Anybody could sign up in any person’s or company’s name as long as you paid. It’s already wreaked havoc for some companies. His proposition was the opposite of what identity verification is: it was… Read more »
The $8 a month is optional and any account “impersonating” will be suspended. The sooner the far left cry babies stop acting like children, the better.
Complete bull**it. Nobody ever said it was mandatory, I’m certainly not a far lefty, and the whole program has been suspended because of the rampant fraud:
https://fortune.com/2022/11/11/twitter-blue-checkmarks-offline-unavailable-elon-musk-8-dollars/
Your apartheid-era, South African, Chicom agent hero is about to have as many legal problems as his chaos agent, role model Donald Dump.
Elon is a business man, he’s went in to a company that doesn’t make any money and had a discussion about how to change that. Idea let’s charge for blue tick. Great idea make it happen by Friday. Some ideas work some don’t. If you see how he works across his empire it’s often a try it method and see what works.
You definitely didn’t go to business school and I doubt you’d endorse the, “throw spaghetti against the wall until a strand sticks”, in any other single professional sphere including militarily. If you don’t believe me now, wait until you find out his software comes from China.
Well if you don’t want to pay $8 a month then don’t pay $8 a month. It’s called the marketplace. Musk made a bad investment, on impulse I think, and only realized it when he looked at the books. But even a cursory examination would have discovered that Twitter has only made a profit twice in the past ten years. Only 21 billion of the 44 billion Musk paid is his personal money. The rest is financed.
How the social media companies get so valued is crazy. Anything they do can be replicated by another company.
As Elon said when he room Twitter “we will make changes, some will work and will be kept, some will fail and disappear”.
Musk exists to monetise the unaware self-obsessed, instant-gratification generation. Hilarious! Next purchase? Instawonk, where people seem obsessed with taking pictures of their prosaic dining options
Nice video on Ukraine from Andres puck neilson. https://youtu.be/2fAQ7h5tX2M
As usual he makes a great facts based video. For people that have been saying it frees up 20,000 extra troops, he makes the point probably 60,000 Ukrainian troops are now freed up.
Also I had a look at maps on what the land is like across the river and it’s Very open, flat and part of it is known Ukraine’s desert due to all the Sandy area. Not a very nice place to wait out winter.
Starting to see the spoils of war left behind also.
Come on BREXIT guys how can France and Italy economies are growing when the UK economy is in recession? , I must admit I’m a bit baffled by the situation guys.
EU members are still buying Putin’s blood oil and gas, perhaps that is helping them.
They don’t buy enough to make a substantial difference to their economies compared to the uk. It’s getting less as time goes on.
An Assumption by some that a economic hit from brexit would be Instant has lead some to believe we were fine. Now the uk is suffering more than other developed economies. I mean it’s really simple. Leave the largest and nearest trading bloc making it more complicated to do trade with that bloc and for them to do trade with the uk is going to have a negative effect. Then the argument of we are taking back control is also falling on its arse as we have literal boat loads of people coming. All it did was put of hard… Read more »
Warning. Actual facts and statistics might be harmful to your cause.
I don’t have a cause. I get your stats but why is everyone saying the uk is in a recession?
A recession is likely next year caused by the hike in gas prices in the first half of the year caused by Russias invasion of Ukraine. If Brexit had anything to do with it the EU would not be suffering at least as badly as the UK.
Most countries are suffering due to energy costs. It makes the case for using other energy sources more appealing. My main thing I see and hear is that doing trade with Europe has become more difficult. As other markets have not replaced what has been lost due to this it’s inevitable the economy will suffer. I really hope that it doesn’t have a big impact. As time goes on some companies that do business with the uk aren’t renewing contracts and are sourcing what they require else where inside the trading bloc. We were told there would be a impact… Read more »
Your answer seems the most likely , just waiting for a decent excuse from the BREXIT lot not seen one yet , doubt I will , unless its the excuse of growing pains and all that lol !!!!
🙄🤔😎
Morning MS. As a fence sitter on the issue, my intuition tells me now that Brexit was a mistake. Time perhaps to consider some half way house by negotiating some form of closer relationship with the EU? I had always believed that neither side tried hard enough to reach middle ground before the Referendum and in this regard the EU side were less accomodating in the negotiation perhaps because they rightly or wrongly felt they held most of the cards? The other aspect that saddens me is the strain it has put on the Union with starkly pro EU portions… Read more »
It was always a toxic issue the uk in the EU for a lot of people. We are where we are now and hopefully the uk can grasp opportunities from being outside the EU with both hands moving forward, I will be delighted if the uk economy does better than others. The EU was never going to give the uk fantastic offer in negotiations due to the impact it could have on other countries views. As a Scot I really hope there is not another referendum. It was once in a generation. If for some reason there is one soon… Read more »
Thanks MS
Latest GDP growth Q3 2022
Italy 2.5%
UK 2.4%
France 1.0%
Gross domestic product (GDP) is estimated to have fallen by 0.6% in September 2022, after a fall of 0.1% in August 2022 (revised from a fall of 0.3% in our previous publication) driven by a fall in the services sector.
Looking at the quarterly picture, GDP fell by 0.2% in the three months to September 2022 compared with the three months to June 2022.
This was just released yesterday.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/september2022
This is from the commons library. It shows the uk gdp is going down by 0.2% in the last quarter and most other countries are going up.
But you don’t mention the year on year data ? Which do you consider more important having the fastest growing economy over the next 12 months or the next 3 ? We all have personal beliefs through which we view facts. I do and you do. What matters is accepting the ones which disprove our beliefs as well as those which don’t.
I think most interesting will be what happens in the next 12 months from now with the uk economy versus other economies. Fingers crossed we all do well.
Year on year data is important and so is month to month, quarter to quarter. I really hope the PM and chancellor get the economy right in the coming months.
Without taking sides in this scrap I would think that the Truss trauma might have influenced the figures for the last quarter? As with any financial report, viewing one segment in isolation is often misleading. The time frames are artificial and figures at the close of February 28 for example are more often than not manipulated to suit tax and other factors.
Yep. Plus revisions to estimates.
Definition: recession is 2 consecutive Q’s of -ve GDP. 1 more Q -ve then UK is in recession. Not much prospect of upturn in *this* Q. Look at downgrades of UK by ratings agencies Fitch and Moody’s. BofE predicting 2Y recession; 8 consecutive Q’s.
Hunt said on the tv this morning we are in a recession and will all have to pay a bit more tax and cut public spending to make the recession as shallow and short as possible.
Geez from tax cuts and spending galore to tax rises and spending cuts in a few months🙈 I hope he is right that it’s short and shallow.
https://youtu.be/Npmjlue23TA
Hunt explicitly said: ” … this recession that we *may* be in … I hope to makes this as short and shallow as I can”. Deluded on 2 counts
Not deluded just watching the video while dealing with the kids so may have missed bits. I would not knowingly make stuff up. Thank you for pointing my mistake out.
Hunts brain must be on auto correct. On the sky news he says I want to make sure this recession if we’re in a recession is as short and shallow…..
Those stats are wrong buddy , the UK is at 0.2 Italy is 1.8 , France 1.6
Of course they are.
Sorry buddy but you are in denial , I’d love to be wrong but its not the case .
Wrong stats but stats are stats and any stats can be found to support a viewpoint! In fact Brussels stated today the Eurozone will be in recession very soon! Good news? No not at all but then again I’m not using random stats to try to gloat over a lost democratic argument!
Hi Airborne-again not taking sides but democracy has its limits. We assume that the majority vote in favour of Leave consisted of a bloc of individuals whose aggregate knowledge of subject and reasoning skills were at the top end whereas the reality is that a large segment voted Leave because they loved Boris’s blond hair or the lads down at the Pub all had similar views on ‘bleedin foreigners’. Then there was the complacency nurtured by the view that a Remain vote was a certainty so Farages gang were fired up but the Remainers thought they had it in the… Read more »
PS ..and I get the argument about endless Referenda until you get the result you want. On the other hand I wondered how and why a vote on the return of the Death Penalty was always denied even when there was a clear majority in favour. The reasoning behind that refusal was both patronising and insulting to the British electorate
Personally I would be against it. There is always the miscarriage of justice element. Another point being for some it’s a relief to get killed rather than stay in a prison cell for the rest of your life. Also someone has to carry out the sentence so in effect are then a state sponsored murderer. I have more support for the assisted suicide where someone chooses they want to end there life. If a prisoner wants to that I guess that would be ok. Again though ending someone’s life by hands off medical means seems to be tricky. The Americans… Read more »
Disagree mate, as your using presumption and guess work to confirm your thought process. However to an extent you are probably correct, but the numbers would be smaller and the reasons would be vast and varied, but it isn’t quite as simple as it seems! Every vote/election uses promises/opinions/hopes/fears to garner support and this one was no different. Would we have a re-election 6 months after a general, if the numbers were close and the elected government were pretty wank? No mate we wouldn’t would we. Cheers.
Stats a very subjective especially when one type are compared against another. One thing we hopefully all agree on is that we want the economy to do well and our lives to improve across the uk and allies.
For sure mate, the one constant I think the vast majority of sensible people want is for a decent government, strong economy and a fair and free life for our families, community and country. We just have different views of the way to get there 👍
Thanks Airborne and MS. Really enjoy discussing these weighty items with you guys.😉
Is there an open walkway around the side of the warship? Interesting, because that would depart from contemporary reduced radar signature designs.
One of the modifications the US Navy made on the FREMM design for the new Constellation frigates was to ditch the composite mast for a traditional mast. In addition, the Flight II San Antonio class LPDs will switch from a composite mast to a traditional mast. Could someone explain what the US Navy has against composite masts? Technical? Cost? Both?
I’ve wondered the same thing and I think the the USN just decided that composite masts aren’t worth the effort. The USN certainly has plenty of experience with them already, the first 11 Flight I San Antonio class LPDs have two composite masts apiece and the first two of the three Zumwalt class destroyers have full or partial composite masts, so they know all about them by now. Supposedly the company that made the masts is out of business, but if the USN was willing to pay for more I’d bet that there are other composites companies here in the… Read more »
The US closed mast manufacturer went bust. I don’t recall its name.
Besides USN is very conservative in certain things.
If the US Navy thought composite masts were essential for their ships they have the funds and the industrial base to get them built. They built 13 San Antonio class LPDs with them so I don’t think it’s a matter of conservatism. It appears they decided they didn’t want composite masts anymore. I am just trying to find out the reason.
The manufacturer that made the San Antonio masts was closed.. from USNI Among the capabilities stripped out of the LPD design is the four-connector well deck, which is reduced to size to two connectors, and the radar cross section-reducing Advanced Enclosed Mast Lyons mentioned. The change from the enclosed mast to a traditional stick mast, however, is due to changes in the industrial base. Huntington Ingalls Industries owned a Gulfport Composite Center of Excellence in Mississippi that produced composite materials for shipbuilding, but the company announced it would close the center in 2013 due to a reduction in the DDG-1000… Read more »
Naval industry in US have a surprisingly small depth for the country size.
Besides the shipyards that serve the USN/Coast Guard there are no major shipbuilding industry.
And the only Western(USA,Canada, Europe) shipbuilding company in 10 World First is Fincantieri.
I hope this mast can get fixed flat panels in the future, because RN seems really obsolescent in radar systems for T26, T31.
Hope George is able to capture video re transfer of HMS Glasgow to the submersible barge. Realize it will be an organized, professional op., but must admit to being intrigued by the mechanics of such a transfer nonetheless. 🤔
I guess ‘composite materials’ have moved on from carbon fibre?