A Merlin helicopter has become the first aircraft to land on carrier HMS Prince of Wales.

The aircraft carrier is currently on the first phase of sea trials which will look at platform stability and manoeuvrability.

At present, the ship’s company (around 600 people say the Royal Navy) are focusing on a successful spell of sea trials, having prepared for months, gradually bringing the many systems, sensors and items of machinery from the galley to the main engines into life.

They are joined for the trials by a team of 320 civilian contractors.

What will the vessel carry when in service?

The term now used for the carriers embarked squadrons is ‘Carrier Air Wing’ (CVW). The vessels are capable of deploying a variety of aircraft in large numbers, up to a maximum in the upper fifties in surge conditions but around 40 aircraft will likely be the usual maximum.

F-35Bs on HMS Queen Elizabeth.

In addition to the joint force of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy F-35Bs and their pilots, the air wing is expected to be composed of a ‘Maritime Force Protection’ package of nine anti-submarine Merlin HM2 and four or five Merlin for airborne early warning; alternatively a ‘Littoral Manoeuvre’ package could include a mix of RAF Chinooks, Army Apaches, Merlin HC4 and Wildcat HM2.

It is my understanding that vessel would still carry at least one F-35 squadron aboard in such circumstances to offer air defence as well as support to the helicopter assault activities.

The Crowsnest AEW&C aircraft will come from a number of the embarked Merlins (any of which can be fitted with the sensor package), the number again scaling with requirements.

Uniquely for a vessel of this type, it will be common to see the jump-jet F-35B appear to land conventionally. This is a process called Shipborne Rolling Vertical Landing (SRVL). It is a process designed to land jump-jet aircraft that uses both the vertical thrust from the jet engine and lift from the wings, thus maximising the payload an aircraft can return with and stopping the financial waste that comes with dropping expensive weaponry in the sea in order to land vertically.

 

 

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John Clark
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John Clark

Good to see, I would imagine the issues encountered by QE during trials should have been addressed in PoW.

Can’t wait for pictures of both ships together, a proud moment.

Jim Braid
Guest
Jim Braid

Looking out my sitting room window tonight and seeing the POW sailing up and down the Forth. Bloody hell, it’s a monster !. Looks fantastic.

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Why do I still feel these carriers are potential political footballs for our disjointed parliament?

BB85
Guest
BB85

Not sure what you mean. Do you think one will still be sold. I can’t see it happening now we have invested the time in training crew for both. If India wanted to buy one it would have been arranged a couple of years ago before they bought the Russian garbage.

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

If as some predict, the next UK Government is made up of the liberal/left, then there is a possibility that sailing around the World in nasty big ships will not fit well within their political mindsets? Appeasement will be their mantra in most fields of policy and that will include defence.

Sadly, all political parties have treated defence as a sandpit, a staging post where ministers stay momentarily before moving on into serious governance. The result has been successive cuts, most taken with little regard for the ramifications, thus leaving the country exposed and in some cases, bereft of capability.

James Fennell
Guest
James Fennell

These ships and the F-35s and Type 45s were conceived and ordered by the Blair labour government and included in the 1997 SDR. It was the Cameron government that slashed the surface and fast jet fleets, failed to order new frigates in time and withdrew the carriers, Harriers and Nimrods and almost cancelled or sold PoW (although we can place some blame on the financial crisis and the cost implications of the misguided adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan – which I was part of). We often forget that. I think Corbyn is dangerous, but I don’t trust Boris either. A… Read more »

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Blair’s labour party was a long throw from what the current leaders believe in. In many ways, Blair offered a smidgin more cream than the Conservatives but it was still Latte. We just don’t know where British politics is going, but I fear for UK defence as it could lose more influence going forward?

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

we can’t influence anything if we have little to bring to the table

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

James – To be fair to the Cameron Coalition Government the first step to a Future Frigate Replacement was started in 1998,so the Labour Government had (only) 12 years to get the order ball rolling,plus they oversaw the sale of 3 T23’s to Chile and the drawdown of the T42 and T22 fleets.

James Fennell
Guest
James Fennell

Yes they were no panacea either, cutting the Type 45s from 12 to 6 as well as selecting the godforsaken WR21 as powerplant – batch 3 Type 22s went under Cameron BTW.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

I am not sure you have to be a far right party to take defence seriously. The Lib Dems know full well how important it is. The Lib Dems were in coalition when we attacked Libya. However the Corbyn Left are a strange lot and it is hard to know what they would do. Corbyn himself is obviously anti-military but he turns on a penny depending on what votes he thinks he will get. I honestly do not think the carriers are under direct threat from any party as it would be a hot potato if they were got rid… Read more »

Ian
Guest
Ian

Can’t ever see a “Far-Right” party leading a U.K. Parliament!

As for the Lib-Dems and the subject of reneging on policies/manifestos, didn’t they promise to abolish tuition fees during the coalition, only to treble them from £3,000 to £9,000?

For me personally, the least favourable party in control of our military spending would be Lib-Dems, just as much as a Corbyn lead (Socialist) Labour Party.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

We effectively have a far right party in government right now. (Breaking the law and sacking people for not agreeing with king borris) the only saving grace is the Boris does not really believe all he is fighting for anyway, it is entirely a career move. As for the lib Dems on tuition fees. I have not been a lib dem supporter but I have to defend them on that one as I think it is unfair that they are held account for it. They were a minor partner in a coalition they did not get to force through every… Read more »

Ian
Guest
Ian

Not sure how you worked that one out.
Only 21 Lib-Dems stuck to their party manifesto/promise, with 27, including the party’s ministers – backing the change, and eight abstaining.

As for “Far Right” Boris Johnson, are you for real?

When the leader of a nation discharges his duties on behalf of a majority 17.5 million voters, that’s called democracy!

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

No, Law breaking is not democracy, it is law breaking and it actually the opposite of democracy. And yes, I would say Boris is behaving in a way that is more reminiscent of the far right. He is expelling members of his own party for not siding with him yet he himself did precisely the same thing. The Conservative party might not yet be far right but it is moving that way. He has surrounded himself with people that have extreme views (eg Reese-Mogg). Labour has been centre left and is moving further to the far left and the conservatives… Read more »

Ian
Guest
Ian

Your argument has fallen flat, have you read what you’ve just written, or am I being facetious?

I also think your personal attack on Farage is hideous, and typical of today’s splintered partisan politics.

I’m a floating voter by the way, I have absolutely no allegiance to any political party, and never have…

I also lived through the Seventies, I know exactly what “Far-Left” is, what it stands for, and who is capable of bringing this nation to its knees! That person (I believe) being Jeremy Corbyn!

Just my experienced and humble opinion…

Peace

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

I absolutely agree with you about Corbyn. Our two main political parties are becoming equally dangerous with their moves to the extremes. I have not attacked Farage I have simply stated facts about him. He is despicable if you hear how he speaks and what he says about people. He is far right and proud. That is not a personal attack as he revels in being despicable, it is his brand. I mean just look at how he talks about climate change and what he thinks of people that know it is fact!

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

you only have to look back at the pictures of the dangerous.communist,pacifist, corbyn taking tea with gerry adams and martin mcguinness to see where his politics are towards the defence of the realm as a war criminal

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Indeed. He has some very skewed morals. He mainly likes to stick it to the establishment… But then it also seems Johnson is also sticking it to the establishment… The establishment appears to be anything that stands between them and rationality… They are both dangerous in there different ways as all extreme views tend to be.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

“I mean we now have conservative MPs wanting to do deals with Farage, who is clearly far right and a obviously despicable human being” You have obviously met him and know that of course. Good God Lee1. Am I a despicable human being then Lee1? I have met Nigel Farage on two occasions, talked at length with him, liked him, and agree with him. Like him, you know nothing of me, the people I love, animals I love, charities I support. AM I despicable Lee1? No. I was remaining silent and letting Ian get on with it as I can… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Lots of Brits met Hitler before the war and thought him charming. Churchill met Mussolini in Italy during the 20’s and reported back to the British Press his admiration for the man and his achievements. Farage is an arse, even Boris, having rejected Farage’s proposal for an electoral pact…..citing that he was unfit to lead a political party….would have no truck with him! Trouble is DM…you are nice…but dim!

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Lol. I will ignore that insult Herodotus. You’re not worth it.

Herodotus
Guest

I actually think that you are a really nice guy…just naive!

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

If you think scientists and people that accept climate change is real are idiots t and if you think that Arron banks is a decent human then yes you are as despicable as he is. You may have other redeeming qualities and you may be a lovely person to speak to. I certainly agree with some things you say on here. But those are red lines for any human as no one can legitimately agree with that and not be either ignorant or purposefully vindictive. Farage has helped reinvent populism he helped Trump with this. Basically his thought is that… Read more »

Gfor
Guest
Gfor

Lee, What is your definition of populism?

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Appealing to a popular if incorrect opinion just for the fact that it is popular and therefore a vote winner. However it also then evolves into a position of the people Vs the elite. The people Vs the “establishment” in order to make the issues appear more like a war where people need to fight until the death. Messages like “if you are not with us then you are against us and therefore a traitor”. It is a powerful but dangerous tactic that divides society and pits the population against each other. Populism appeals to feelings rather than rational thought.… Read more »

Gfor
Guest
Gfor

But Lee, that definition is exactly how you have behaved in relation to the ‘baby boomers’ generation on this very site. You have disregarded reason and facts, only pushing your own narrative whilst ignoring the other side’s opinions concerning ‘older peoples pensions’ and their vote to leave the EU, (without actually knowing who voted for what and why). I’m afraid that the word populism is being thrown around by people who cannot debate and will not listen to other people’s points of view, in the same way that the racism label was used so effectively to cease discussion on immigration… Read more »

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

If you do not understand the difference between populism and democracy then I am not sure you should be voting at all! Look it up read about it and learn something! This is a major part of the Brexit issue. If people were more educated in politics then remain would have won by a country mile as people would have recognised the signs that they were being duped.

And no my attack on baby boomers is not populism. Again go and educate yourself first.

Gfor
Guest
Gfor

And there you have it.

I am at a loss about the ignorance and yet supreme arrogance of people like you.
The inability to discuss, and instead turn to insults shows to all your immaturity and mental reasoning.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

It is not an insult. My children go to school every day to educate themselves. I am not insulting them by sending them off every morning. You said yourself that you did not know so the answer is to educate yourself. It is not insulting to give advice. I can discuss things perfectly fine and have done throughout this thread.

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Remember Lee1, the liberal left is where the majority of powerful dinner party goers reside, and fighting foreign wars is just too indigestible for their ethical persuasion. In fact, the UK may not fight another war for 50 years, if ever, due to a rapidly changing mindset towards protecting the planet. If as I suspect the upsurge of ‘young eco voices’ could effectively channel military resources to no conflict deployments? A state of panic is now setting political agenda’s across the globe, as extraordinary weather events increase exponentially. Unfortunately, such good sentiments are possibly surpressed in the two most powerful… Read more »

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

“the liberal left is where the majority of powerful dinner party goers reside”

??

Who are these “liberal left” media barons, oil tycoons and banking execs then? Any names?

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Indeed, the powerful elite are rarely known for their liberalism….

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

You’re confusing power with money. It’s the comfortable professional set who have the greatest sway when it comes to so-called moderate opinion, in the halls of influence. Oil tycoons and their like, don’t give a fig about national politics. Maybe you should attend the odd dinner party, within the aforementioned circles, before being so quick to judge?

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Oil tycoons are paying huge amounts of money lobbying to make sure we keep buying oil! Of course they care about national politics, in fact it is pretty much their main business plan! Do you think trump would be suing car companies for making efficient cars if he was not getting kick backs from the oil lobby? Arron banks (funder of farage) owns diamond mines and is heavily involved in politics in a number of countries (obviously including the UK), mainly to further his business income. Music execs lobby for protection of their businesses. Power and money often go together.there… Read more »

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Power and money are inextricably linked, I said media barons, the top 5 biggest selling newspapers are the Sun, Daily Mail, Sunday times, Sunday Sun and Sunday Mail. Top 2 online newspapers by website traffic, Sun and the Mail. I think they have quite a sway on public opinion, maybe a bit more than imaginary dinner parties What you’re actually doing Maurice is confusing liberalism and the left, you said liberal left, most moderate opinion is liberal, left and right of the spectrum, you’re liberal, we all have liberal views don’t we, unless you’re against civil rights, democracy, gender rights,… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

how do i get an invite?

Sean
Guest
Sean

Alister Campbell (media), Tony Blair (media), George Soros (finance), Gina Miller (finance),…

Should I continue?

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Alistair Campbell is a washed up p**s head with hardly any influence, he has zero influence in the party he was a member for decades

Tony Blair is a washed up former PM who nobody listens to and the overwhelming majority of his own party want him tried for war crimes

George Soros has tried and failed in many countries for results to go his way

Gina Miller is a hardline remainer and her country voted to leave the EU

So those four are at dinner parties shaping public opinion then? Come on mate ffs

Sean
Guest
Sean

Alister Campbell is a p**shead, but he is also an editor of remainiac newspaper “The New European”. He also frequently appears on tv and radio, such as this morning on Radio 5, to push his anti-Brexit agenda.

As for George Soros, where do you think the funds for these legal challenges and ongoing campaign against Brexit are coming from?…

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Oh come on, the new European employs one staff member, is barely 3 years old, and has a 20k circulation But just going back to the point here, I’m not disputing that these four are doing these things, they are because that is their agenda/job/passion/belief (delete where appropriate) The exact same type of people are on the other side trying to do the exact same, you’re turning this into a Brexit thing when it’s not I said media barons, these are the type of people who can influence millions, not people on tv appearances giving opinions George soros is the… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Including me…but I generally donate £15 per month to the cause. Millions of others subscribe what they can….we don’t need, or have, shady backers.

Sean
Guest
Sean

“The New European” is only 3 years old because it was set up as a vehicle for overturning the Referendum result. And I think you’ll find it has more staff, and certainly more contributing writers than 3. As for media barons, start with the BBC. As John Humphrey’s has revealed now he’s free of the “BBC Thought Police” (his words) it has a Remainiac agenda. Then there’s Sky, etc, etc. The Vote Leave campaign shut down and ceased to exist after it won the referendum. But on the Remain side spending has continued, and indeed ramped up, helped by Soros,… Read more »

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

I’m not sure what point you’re actually trying to make, you’ve gone off again on Brexit when mine and Maurice’s debate was not about Brexit at all So from you’re last paragraph what you’re saying is that even though people have been campaigning to leave the EU for years and years, now that there has been a referendum people on either side are not allowed to campaign? The establishment is partly remain, you think JRM & Boris Johnson are not establishment? You think the Sun and Daily Mail are not establishment? You think David Cameron is “liberal left”? remain and… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Hi Sole. Your thoughts on today’s Labour Party Conference vote, in which: Immigration controls are lifted. Immigration detention centres are closed. Restrictions to NHS access for all migrants are lifted. Meaning the NHS becomes the International Health Service if all can use it without charge. The VOTE is given to all 3.6 million EU residents and all other non British nationals in Britain. ( nice fix up that re EU referendums ) I’m asking as you yourself mentioned some months ago you too see the need for sensible border controls, and at the party conference of your party they have… Read more »

Expat
Guest
Expat

That’s bonkers, anyone who has to commute around the country knows they reality is we’re at breaking point. Travel on Britain main motorways between 6 and 9am and they’re moving at a crawl completely unproductive time lost. We’re facing a revolution in automation in the workplace over the next few decades we simply won’t create enough jobs for the population we have now. Bonkers!

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

We have been at breaking point for years, but of course I’m told that it is all baby boomers fault and absolutely nothing to do with the 350000 plus we add each year in population through migration.

A bathtub, no matter how much you improve the drainage ( public services / cuts / austerity ) can only hold so much water if you keep a hose running into it.

I really cannot see why people cannot understand that.

Gfor
Guest
Gfor

They have made themselves unelectable in one stroke.
Their only saving factor is the front pages and the TV headlines have focussed on all of the other shenanigans in parliament.
Perhaps the reason why the opposition MPs have been making such a fuss over very trivial things like the ‘surrender act and humbug’ comments?.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Agree.

It needs to be broadcast from the rooftops by everyone.

From what I read it is not official party policy yet, but the membership who voted for it expect that it will be in the Manifesto. The lady who called the motion on it is Ana Oppenheim, from “Labour for Free Movement”

This country is F***** with these people in charge. I’m utterly shocked.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

The leave side always goes on about project fear without acknowledging that it spread the most fear of all. The number of people abusing the NHS from abroad is minute. Should it happen? Probably not but is it worth much effort in eliminating it? not if the cost outweighs the benefit… With regard to labour… There are other parties. I do not agree with much of what labour say either but that doesn’t mean I have to continue to vote conservative… We are not America… Also remain//leave is not a purely party political issue. There are those in Labour like… Read more »

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Hi Daniele It was a vote at conference, it’s not official party policy no matter what the headlines say, they also passed a vote in the 2016 conference to put the final deal to another referendum, that was not in the 2017 manifesto, all these votes go to the leadership and another policy forum and are then selected on the basis of will they win enough votes in all the areas they need to win seats to get into number 10 There has been votes every year at conference, hundreds over the years that never again see the light of… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Ah! Sole. Thank you. Have not read and digested your long piece yet but glad you saw my post.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

” the remain side are totally forgetting the issues that caused the country to vote leave”

BINGO! Thank you. I have been saying this for a while. Immigration and sovereignty were the main ones, with “free movement” the main one.

I myself was quite happy with the trade side of things EU wise and I think most leavers could see the undoubted benefits of Single Market access. But NOT at the price of free movement. It really is quite simple.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

“And to be even fairer to the Poles, i think they are the people that integrate the best into British life, I think Europeans are, remember immigrants are only immigrants for a generation, their kids are Brits, the media and people were saying the exact same things like “breaking point” in the 60’s about immigrants, now their children and grandchildren are British heavyweight boxing and F1 world champions”

I quite agree. I have a Polish and Romanian friend, and my father was an immigrant to the UK in 1964.

But there needs to be a limit. And that is not happening.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

And if it is not in the Manifesto? What is stopping them implementing it upon gaining power?

Labour and Tory had Leave in their 2017 Manifesto’s and many of them are doing the the reverse. Thornbury is actively campaigning to remain, as are many Tories who stood on the same position.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

I did see it yesterday mate but i was on the sauce so apologies for the late war and peace reply Yeah i think getting around that is a mutually beneficial FTA, something that is not getting done because we cannot leave properly I think we broadly agree on immigration, one thing about limits though, i’m not sure it would be beneficial to us, my idea would be a government department well funded, working with unions, education, business & industry, assessing the labor market and seeing what is needed, then accepting the visas based on what we need, with all… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Nope, MPs are representatives in our parliament, not delegates. The tradition is that they listen, but act on their own conscience. It is one of the strengths of our system that is being given away by frit MPs who don’t want to be deselected. Stuff populism…it has no conscience and at the end of the day, no one to shoulder any responsibility. Populism is nothing more than cheap politics…look at Farage!

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Vote leave simply became the Brexit party. It has the same backers the same staff and the some of the same leaders!

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Nigel farage, (finance), Donald trump (real estate), Boris Johnson (media), Arron Banks (finance, blood diamonds, corruption), Robert Mercer (finance). What is your point?

Sean
Guest
Sean

Exposing liars like yourself? Careful what you say about Mr Banks, he has a habit of suing people who make unfounded slurs against him.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

What have I lied about? And as for Banks there is plenty of proof of his activities. To sue me, I would have had to have made an unfounded slur… I have not, his activities are out there for all to scrutinise…

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Liberal democrats are a centre political party not centre left. Labour are centre left (well traditionally. They are moving further left at the moment). Let’s not get into the American style politics of accusing anyone less right than the republicans of being communist… And for what it is worth I think we need the military more than ever due to climate change. There are going to be far more conflicts kicking off as everyone competes for food and water resources and we see large scale migration from parts of the world that become practically uninhabitable. Nothing realistic is going to… Read more »

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

“Nothing realistic is going to be done about climate change quick enough as those in charge will not be affected by it as they are too old. The selfishness of our baby boomers is going to affect the world for centuries, they will be the most despised human generation to have ever existed.” The baby boomers are an easy target, they did what was asked of them and generally worked and saved and they’re reaping the rewards of that. Rather than target them as the problem you’d be better looking at why things aren’t as peachy ‘these days’. As for… Read more »

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

I don’t think they do give a toss about their own kids. My father for instance voted to leave the EU which will have virtually not affect on him but a huge affect on me and my children. He also does very little with regard to the environment as, and I quote “it does not affect him as he will not be around” Baby boomers knew about this problem back in the 60s but ignored it. They have known for decades that diesel cars cause hideous pollution and yet did nothing. The leaders we have now are doing virtually nothing… Read more »

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

I think you just mean older people, a fair whack of the ‘baby boomers’ have already retired (on their final salary pensions etc) but again I’ll point out that you’d be better asking why ‘WE’ aren’t getting the same pensions rather than just being spiteful to those that do.

You do seem to have bought into the idea that all the oldies are bastards out to screw you, they’re even “the most likely to lead unhealthy lifestyles and therefor putting more strain on the NHS”… Wow, old people generally have more things wrong with them, you just sound bitter Lee.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

You are misunderstanding the issue. It is not that older people have more issues if is that the baby boomers have huge health issues compared to other groups. Not because they are old, but because they are unhealthy. So that means the generations before and after them will have less self induced health issues that them at the same points in their lives. And there are still baby boomers that are about to retire but have not reached retirement age yet. 55 years olds are still baby boomers. We are not getting the same pensions as the baby boomers absorbed… Read more »

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

I’m not sure where you get this health stat from and it’s largely immaterial. It looks like you’ve decided the baby boomers are ‘baddies’ and if you muster enough shit to throw some of it might stick.

Does your scorn of the unhealthy extend to poor people ? They’re generally more unhealthy, die younger, need the NHS more too.

Oh and I’m not misunderstanding your ramblings, I see them for what they are, pick a side and give the ‘enemy’ as much shit as you can. Still, it lets you get it off your chest eh ?

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

The poor have excuses for being unhealthy to a point and we should be doing more to get them out of poverty. What I am talking about is people willfully and knowingly damaging the environment, putting strain on the NHS, soaking up all the wealth and then laughing their heads of at our future generations struggle.

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

Now the wicked old buggers are laughing their heads off…

You do have a vivid imagination Lee.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

You only have to look at what people like Farage say and what their supporters therefore think in order to see this in action. Look at what trump and his friends say about these things and how they laugh and insult those that want change…. Now I know not all.of these people are baby boomers but baby boomers are more likely to support these people and their views.

Sean
Guest
Sean

The patronising sentiment of socialists.

Doing stuff to ‘the poor’ because you know best, and anyway, the plebs can’t help themselves.

Well as one of the ‘the poor’, I worked hard, became the first in my family to go to university (studying a science at a real university), and proceeded to build a successful career through hard work and application.

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

You are confusing the ‘Liberal left’, with the Liberal Democrats.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

Because it was in direct reply to my post that mentioned the liberal democrats but not the liberal left…

Sean
Guest
Sean

You clearly have no idea what a “far-right” government is.
Do we’ve still have free-speech and an independent press? Not under a far-right or far-left government.
Do we have death-squads and political prisoners? We would under a far-right / far-left government.
Get a grip and stop exaggerating.

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

It is moving that way. We now have a PM breaking laws and then attacking the judiciary. We have a PM that is turning the people against the “Establishment” (whatever they actually mean by that word given that the PM himself would traditionally be thought of as part of that group), we have attacks on the press when they do not agree with the party and we now have a PM making light of death threats on his opponents and the PMs advisor is even claiming that they are enjoying that! Our PM constantly refuses to apologise for the inflaming… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

“We have a PM that is turning the people against the “Establishment”

No. It was that way long before BJ arrived in office. The Brexit vote was proof of that.

“Calling people traitors for wanting the best for their country”

What, like how Brexit people get called “racist” for wanting what is best for theirs!?

Your rose tinted glasses at only seeing what reinforces your world view are perfect!

Expat
Guest
Expat

I think it’s likely at least one will be sold possibly both and the f35 Oder cancelled. T26 could be cut. Future investment will be in support ships, T31, A400 etc. Basically strike capability will go and spending will be on peace keeping and aid delivery. Defence budgets will stay as is but will have more lumped into it. Long term we’ll no long be a credible defence partner.

Herodotus
Guest

Was this in Yellowhammer?

Expat
Guest
Expat

My interpretation of the shadow defence ministers presentation to RUSI. Really can’t see both carriers lasting a full term or a labour government. Selling a carrier could fund a few more T31s keep yards busy and unions happy and there would be an argument they have increased the size of the RN.

Sean
Guest
Sean

“Labour government”… now there’s an oxymoron…

dave12
Guest
dave12

Any bets on how long before POW carrier is sold off considering we don’t have enough escorts to cover both.

Rob
Guest
Rob

We don’t need escorts for both as only one will ever be deployed at once – we have two so that one is always available.

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

That’s how I see it too Rob, one platform at sea with a full air wing, the other either in a maintenance period, washing its hair or whatever with a duty watch onboard. Might be tricky manpower wise (hopefully not) but even if it was there would be a (threaders) crew ready to transfer over so while maybe not a one out,one in, a short handover time.

crabfat
Guest
crabfat

As I said in an earlier post, they seem to have conjured up 600 crew from somewhere for this first trip…

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

HMS Ocean I believe.

crabfat
Guest
crabfat

Thanks Daniele.

Rudeboy
Guest
Rudeboy

Principally from HMS Ocean…

LESLIE Milne
Guest
LESLIE Milne

The crew have been based in rosyth for a couple of years and as the different areas of the ship came together so did the crew compliment until the full basic crew were on board the nominal 1600 crew can only be achieved when she has her full aircraft and air crew compliment on board.

Tony
Guest
Tony

Read again. Over 300 are contractors.

crabfat
Guest
crabfat

‘At present, the ship’s company (around 600 people say the Royal Navy)’… ‘are joined for the trials by a team of 320 civilian contractors.’

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

We do have enough escorts for 2 carrier groups to be deployed at once and going forward I think the situation will improve further. There is no doubt in my mind this is a massive strategic shift for the UK and we can provide 4 T26 and 4 T23 to the carriers as well as 2 Tides to each to provide a carrier group of 7 assets. Add in a SSN and an Albion and we have 2 fully formed carrier groups the Batch 1 rivers need to keep going and the new batch 2’s need to backfill some lower… Read more »

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

You do know vessels need maintenance ??? While theoretically we might (I know, I know) have enough escorts to cycle round, assuming we were going to run 1 never mind 2 ‘Carrier Task Force’s’ the big units will need to come in for DAMPS/refits etc. I’m not sure we’ll run with one Carrier ‘group’, just the capability to run with one. We know we’ll lack the aircraft to run with two for starters and I’m not sure where we’d put our Carrier groups, right now I guess The Gulf but then those dastardly commies might get up to no good.… Read more »

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

It’s a one on one off model for the carriers and I expect the same for all assigned assets, so yes there will be maintenance etc, but we have 6 T45 and need 4 for 2 carrier groups so you can see where I am going with this. I am not saying we will have 2 CBG’s out at once, what I am saying is we can do it with a bit of initiative and some help from our allies. The FSL has already alluded to the RN moving to a strike group led force rather than individual assignments and… Read more »

Cam
Guest
Cam

One at sea at a time was always the plan!!

julian1
Guest
julian1

It’s interesting what you say “securing the Atlantic.” I thought the whole point of QE class was to be a true blue water navy and secure distant trade routes. If all we’re doing is setting out to secure the N Atlantic then all we actually needed was more SSNs, more ASW frigates and invincible-size carriers with a focus on ASW and fleet air defence. That was our role in the 1980s and we could do it fine without large fleet carriers such as QE class

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

Couldn’t agree more. I would not have ordered these at all if I was in charge. We could have had 7 more astutes and 50 more F35

This is a political decision in so many levels from jobs to allowing the USN to pivot to the Pacific etc

But now we have them we need to use them one of these loaded with ASW merlins and a full deck (Dreaming now) will be a capable asset

Where we actually need to use it is an entirely different question

James Fennell
Guest
James Fennell

The navy has fought hard and sacrificed three frigates, a Bay and Ocean to keep both carriers operating simultaneously. A lot of the talk about the re-roled Royal Marines as Littoral Strike ‘raiders’ is very much about using the carriers. I suspect the Navy wants see one with a carrier strike role and one with a littoral strike role simultaneously (maintaining the carrier strike function when one is in refit). These ships need much less downtime that older ships (when we had five strike carriers in the sixties, we were hard pressed to keep three on station at any one… Read more »

Cam
Guest
Cam

The first British carrier group will consist of HMS Queen Elizabeth two type 23s two type 45s one Astute one RFA tide tanker and RFA fort Victoria

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

That would be a perfect carrier group in my opinion, and we have the assets for 2 of these 1 on 1 off.

David
Guest
David

Just a thought and something that’s never talked about much except for Tomahawk. Do we have sufficient missile stocks to fully equip 2xT45s and 2xT23s at the same time? The reason I ask is that back in 2011 over Libya, Obama was reportedly very PO’ed at Britain and France as we had very quickly depleted our munitions and had to go cap-in-hand to the US for resupply. I know our surface ships played a very small role and we also use MBDA missiles that are not sourced from the US but the question still remains.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Not necessary. 1 in role. 1 in reserve. If both are used in a major war allies will take part and NATO ships would augment.

Hopefully T31 is increased to add to escort numbers at some point.

Phil Chadwick
Guest
Phil Chadwick

Total uneducated rubbish

Shiner
Guest
Shiner

Bet you’d be popular down the messdeck!!
Rather than just shooting down other comments and contributing zilch to the thread, why not enlighten us with your expertise.

If you can’t say anything good, don’t say anything at all. Go climb into your top rack and grab your favourite sock. Might relieve some of your ‘stress’.

Herodotus
Guest

Can I point that you have done just the same thing…recognition of irony not really a strong point on this site. Too many opinionated windbags, including me!

Ian
Guest
Ian

As The French have proven with FS Charles de Gaulle, spending more time in dry dock than on the seas. A leading navy will struggle to fulfil its role with just one carrier!
Add to that, the (compromised) procurement of 148 F35B variants, for ‘one carrier’?

Derek.wickwar@googlemail.com
Guest

Well done 820 sgd my first sea draft 1966

Lusty
Guest
Lusty

Another step on the road to a two carrier navy. It’s nice to see an aircraft from Culdrose was given this honour, as was the case with QE a couple of years ago.

Also, this happened (as shared on STRN):

https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1176213543642943490/photo/1

(Thought I’d share it as I know some have been waiting for it!)

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Great photo. When will we see British F35 on the carrier?

Lusty
Guest
Lusty

Fantastic isn’t it?

Current planning is for 7 British F35 to deploy, by the sounds of it from all squadrons (17, 207 and 617). The OCU unit was recently conducting Sea Safety Training at HMS Excellent.

I am unaware of a date, but would assume October.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

As always, thanks Lusty.

Lusty
Guest
Lusty

You’re more than welcome, Daniele.

John Stevens
Guest
John Stevens

Hey Lusty.. wondered if you had seen this video from last year. Queen Elizabeth carrier .. very cool video and music.

https://youtu.be/_eE_ahJlvtI

Lusty
Guest
Lusty

Hi John,

No, I hadn’t seen that one, many thanks! I must say, the RN is becoming superb at making such videos.

Also to your other comment, yes, USMC F35 will be involved.

This talk of fast jets is very nice and all, but I still can’t wait to see both ships together at sea. I hope they make it happen later this year!

John Stevens
Guest
John Stevens

Glad you liked the video. Totally agree, looking very much to seeing both carriers together.

John Stevens
Guest
John Stevens

I think there will be 4 united states F35’s involved with the 7 British F35’s also. Good news, positive…

Herodotus
Guest

News Alert. HM Government takes 21 inch torpedo amidships stop…ship critically damaged below waterline stop….expect abandon ship shortly stop….Captain expected to go down with his ship stop….escorts circling to depth charge survivors stop.

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

Let’s keep it defence.

Ian
Guest
Ian

Well, that’s certainly a flippant view on the death of democracy!

If parliament had discharged its duties as directed by a 17.5 million majority, we wouldn’t be in this confused state of how a democracy works.

Herodotus
Guest

Well, you have to admit, it’s all a bit of a pantomime!

Ian
Guest
Ian

Herodotus, you of all people should know how a democracy works, and its aims in stopping City States from going to war.
Tony Blair appears to have set a worrying trend since his Machiavelli style Premiership.

Hope I don’t come over as a lecturing AH.

Simply an opinion.

Herodotus
Guest

Trouble is that the word democracy is banded about as if it were the pronouncement of God himself. We are, after all, a parliamentary democracy…not a direct democracy. I understand the frustration of those that wanted a simple, straightforward outcome to this issue but, the reality is, that it was never going to be that way. Pandora’s Box, once opened, was never going to be shut that easily….and there really isn’t any point in blaming anyone for this…save of course…those with their fingerprints on the box lid!

Ian
Guest
Ian

With respect Herodotus, that’s like describing the water to a drowning man.

I personally believe that we should have left straight away, warts and all, with the option of re-applying in ten years time.

I only hope this “pantomime”, (your words not mine) doesn’t damage this nation.

Herodotus
Guest

Leaving straight away without any agreement would have, quite rightly, been seen as an act of gross betrayal. Who was asked whether they wanted a no deal Brexit? Who voted for economic hardship….nobody. Parliament took the responsible course of action; to achieve a settlement with the EU that caused as little economic pain to the UK economy as possible. It wasn’t achievable, and we are where we are. Again, there is no point blaming anyone for this …it’s all unchartered territory. Hopefully, we have learnt some serious lessons for the future of our country. No constitutional change without a 2/3rds… Read more »

Ian
Guest
Ian

Not sure how “uncharted territory” equates to “economic hardship”, isn’t that kind-of an oxymoron? but we’ll agree to leave it at that. You should also set the proposals beforehand, with anything not itemised being the responsibility of opposing parties before final ratification of what the referendum stands for, and not by shifting the goal posts at one end, after the vote! We had Leave voters from every political background, which therefore, in effect, gives a cross-party, as well as a numerical majority, to Leave. But I know what you’re saying, and if we had considerate and intelligent compromise from the… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

Trouble is, it wasn’t within the gift of the EU to give us a ‘Fab Deal’….for very obvious reasons! I think that you will find that the majority of MPs are remainers….hence the problem. Cameron never thought that he would lose the referendum, hence its very Ad Hoc nature. Mistakes galore all round…I think that this has to end in a second referendum! Oh, thanks for your courteous…well mannered replies!

Ian
Guest
Ian

You’ll also find that hundreds of MPs went against their constituency majority of leave voters.

Most leave voters I know are level headed and well informed professionals, as are some of my remain friends, more than you can say for many of the 650 career politicians, champagne socialists…

And on that note, we’ll agree to disagree.

Peace

Herodotus
Guest

The very nature of an MP’s role has been hotly debated down the centuries. Edmund Burke, the great C18th Irish parliamentarian and founder of modern Conservatism, argued that the role of the MP was to follow his conscience in all matters. He argued that the role of the MP was as a representative of his constituency, not a delegate! There is a huge difference! Many MP’s subscribe to the Burkian view…whilst they listen to their electorate, they must first act on their political conscience…this is a long tradition in our Parliament! I hope that it remains so…regardless of how inconvenient… Read more »

Ian
Guest
Ian

You can also reference that saying to Churchill, but how can anyone say that Europe is our saviour, our only way forward as a vassal of Germanic dominance. Germany Unilaterally stated (Quote) “Europe can no longer count on the U.S. to protect it and we urge the continent to “take destiny into its own hands.”. Angela Merkel So in that, we have to believe that Europe made the correct decision, in allowing Iran to break free from sanctions, allowing its Theo-Political leadership to further arm proscribed terror organisations, plant limpets on oil tankers navigating international waters, fund and arm proxy… Read more »

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

I think this is the disconnect between our parliamentarians and us prols. They can choose to vote with their conscious/as their party dictates but its really not what they’re there for. Not taking political sides but Corbyn spitting his dummy and not going to meet Trump is just bloody selfish, at the end of the day, hes the POTUS, at worst he’ll have another term, time to drop to your knees and open wide on behalf of the country, its what our unelected Head of State has to do. We seem to have put parliamentary democracy ahead of ‘real’ democracy,… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

To answer your point about putting parliamentary democracy before real democracy; we are not a direct democracy, we are a parliamentary democracy. Referenda are advisory only!
If you want to change the constitution then jolly good luck to you!

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

Yup, the referendum isn’t binding but it would be a ballsy call to have a referendum then ignore the result.

We do live in a parliamentary democracy but we pretend it’s a ‘real’ democracy. I’d love to change the constitution, we’d need to have one first though, we have these nods, winks and gentleman’s agreements holding our parliament together.

Herodotus
Guest

Yes but the dangers are that the general public may not know or even give a fig about what they are voting for. Most people don’t take an interest in the fine details…many will vote on gut instincts with a very heavy dose of personal prejudice. We must credit our politicians and their advisors with a least some expert knowledge. After all, if I am unwell, I go to my doctor…not Mrs Miggins down the pie shop…who didn’t know there was an election on. Our parliamentary system has, by and large, served us well, and long may it continue to… Read more »

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

Visiting a doctor maybe isn’t the right analogy, you’re not going to get one doctor suggesting brufin and another suggesting magic beans which is what we get with our MP’s at the moment. I’m not convinced the ‘customs’ and understandings that or parliament are based on are that fit for purpose to be honest, there’s been a fair bit of pushing boundaries going on by both sides of the Brexit debate. Then there’s our unelected Upper House, unelected Head Of State,… While I can’t see anything drastic, I would like to see parliament given the once over to remove some… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

You clearly haven’t met my doctor! The House of Commons is all part of the charm of an ancient institution…the mother of parliaments. Yes, it is very clunky and very quaint but why does it have to be like other countries. The Lords does pose some problems….I would rather see a lower number of them. I don’t think there is any point in electing a head of state…may as well keep what we have…great for tourism!

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

Each to their own mate, personally I’m not convinced our archaic patchwork approach is ideal, while I’m on my soapbox, I find the ceremony a bit much, it removes our MP’s from real life and I think they live in a bubble anyway.

I’d opt for root and branch change at the top, its not like tourists aren’t going to come , they might even get a proper shufti round the palaces if they’re not occupied….

Ain’t gonna happen any time soon so I’ll keep the torch and pitchfork in the shed for now.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Has room been allocated for the fitting of Dragonfire onboard the QE class and Arrowhead Type 31’s?

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2019/july/10/190710-mod-130m-lasers

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

Remains to be seen. The main issue being the power of the laser, that will be initially fitted. As you know lasers are horrendously inefficient, they require something like ten times the input power compared to the output power for a laser that’s designed to do damage. I’m pretty certain with the diesel upgrade the T45s are getting, they will have the spare capacity to run “a” laser. However, ships may require the mobile Rolls Royce module. This is a self contained power generator that can power a laser up to the 100KW class. I think this is the ultimate… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Many thank’s DaveyB for your informative reply, clearly this system has limits (weather) that I was unaware of! I incorrectly assumed that the radar would guide the beam onto it’s intended target no matter what the atmospheric conditions were.

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

There will be a number of ways of guiding the laser. The ship’s radar will be the first choice, followed by its electro-optical sensors. However, the Dragon fire has 3 optical windows. One is clearly the main window for the laser, the other two could be for an electro-optical sensor to make sure the laser is on the right target. The other could be a low powered laser tracker or an IR sensor. There’s very little real information on any of the teams sites (Qinetiq, MBDA etc) that describes more than the basics. From basic understanding the laser uses a… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Fingers crossed indeed!

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

Not on UKDJ but Lizzie has been progressing through her Westlant19 trials. She has been conducting day and night landings of MV-22s. As Janes reports: “Initial feedback suggested it was a positive trial and further demonstrates the interoperability between the UK and US operating to the Queen Elizabeth class [QEC] aircraft carriers,” an RN spokesperson told Jane’s . “This trial will effectively allow the MV-22 to be able to deliver cargo to QEC ships 24 hours a day, and specifically it will allow F-35 engines to be delivered to the ship any time to meet operational tasking.” What is important… Read more »

Herodotus
Guest

It would be nice to think that the MOD is considering a small number of MV-22s, but it is probably wishful thinking! However, it would make real sense if a package for cod, aew and tanking could be put together!