A collection of videos and photographs show the current state of HMS Glasgow as the Type 26 Frigate is being built by BAE Systems on the River Clyde in Glasgow.
HMS GLASGOW is the first in a new generation of cutting-edge Type 26 frigates, designed and built in the ship’s namesake city.
The Type 26 frigate is an advanced anti-submarine warship, which will deliver critical protection of the Royal Navy’s ‘Continuous At Sea Deterrent’ and Carrier Strike Groups. The ships will replace the UK’s Type 23 frigates, with the first set to enter service in the mid-2020s.
According to BAE:
“Each Type 26 will be equipped with a range of systems including the Sea Ceptor missile defence system, a 5-inch medium calibre gun, flexible mission bay, Artisan 997 Medium Range Radar, and towed array sonars. The flight deck will be able to accommodate helicopters up to the size of a Chinook, while the mission bay can quickly adapt to house and deploy vessels, vehicles and containers.”
The forward and stern sections of HMS Glasgow were rolled out in April and were joined together at the yard last year, work has advanced rapidly since then with the mast and other components fitted as you’ll see in the video.
Actually, rather than me going on about the ship, here’s the video…
Here are the photos, just click to enlarge them.
What next for the frigate?
The vessel will be moved onto a submersible barge towards the end of this year, the barge will then travel down the Clyde to Glen Mallan in the Firth of Clyde where the barge will be lowered into the deep water.
The frigate will then be towed back up the Clyde to Scotstoun where she will be fitted out before undertaking sea trials over the next few years.
Hi folks hope all is well.
Great to see, hope the progress can keep pace! Magnificent to see the UK on track with such warship building!
Cheers
George
Thanks for sharing George most appreciated – can’t wait to see her in the water
Is it me or do frigates look better than any other British class of modern ship
Impressive No longer HMS Polo the Ship with a hole sorry that was the last Glasgow What I am amazed with is the size of the Sheds and the tight confines of the whole yard time BAE,reinvested into larger Sheds
In all fairness to BAE they have applied for planning permission to do just that.
👍👍👍Thanks SB shame it’s not the Tyne or Weir though
I can’t wait for her launching god she’s a old big lump. A Cruiser in all but name. The day she’s commisioned she’ll be the finest ASW warship on the planet. Thank god I don’t think we’ll be hearing a lot of ‘how unarmed our warships look compared to the Russians’ Might have to wait 6 months to hear that again.
The finest ASW warship with no on-board ASW weapons…
Apart from world beating and comprehensive noise reduction for engines. Towed array sonar and Merlin helicopter. That was the shortest 6 months ever. LOL.
What if the merlin is unserviceable? The ships then as much use as a row boat.
All the eggs in one basket is asking for trouble. It’s too easy to see what could go wrong.
Are they not looking at putting some kind of anti sub weapon in the VLS ??
I’ll believe it when I see it…
Ever heard of VECTAC or MATCH?
When you are in a TG with other units or there is an ASW aircraft overhead you would use them to drop on your contact.
Failing that other units land on, bomb up and fly off.
I was about to invoke your name XD
Was it GMT or SNP time for the six months they do vary greatly 🤔
😂😂
The thing about ship based ASW weapons is that the ship is probably dead before it would ever deploy them. Getting with a few miles off an SSN that will know your there and that wants to kill you is not where any surface vessels would want to be.
Also these beasts can carry two merlins.
thirdly they do have Mk 41 cells so they can have whatever load out the RN decides in its “ best ASW force in the world” wisdom.
Agree with every word. 👍
I really enjoy your posts but, may I take issue with Glasgow or any of her sisters deploying with 2 Merlins?
We simply do not have enough aviation assets for use across the fleet.
FAA has 30 x Mk2 ‘Sub Hunters’. Is that not enough? The whole fleet is never going to sail together. Might be 2 or 3 frigates in a CSG, plus some Mk2s on the carrier. 20 should be enough.
Hi Graham I don’t think David is off the mark, not sure what cab availability is with the MK2 merlins, but if you say 10 available for deployment with four needed for radar work as well as a couple more for ASW on the carrier that give you 4 for small flight work. But wildcat can still drop torpedoes If paired with something that can vector it to a contact ( T23/26). But we have effectively lost the equivalent of 12 cabs to keep up the AEW ( always having four deployed will take 12) so we should be looking… Read more »
Hi Barry
i don’t disagree small flight availability can be an issue, but they could also have a merlin, wildcat or wildcat wildcat mix. And although wildcats cannot detect, they can drop after vectoring by the T26.
But agree small flights need to be looked at. Maybe providing some wildcats with a dipping sonar and shifting over the army wildcats to the RN. Then just lovebomb the army with a lovely new medium rotor to make up for it.
Yes, it’s thoughtful combination especially if we could snaffle from rotors from the ROKs.
But room in the hangar for a Chinook
Room on the flight deck for a Chinook, not in the hangar, I believe
Okeedokee unless she embarks the Seabourne Cavalry (marines) why a Chinook ? Or are they just stating that the size of deck could handle a Chinook MR
It seams every escort now needs to be able to land a chinook. All the best escorts love a chinook.
Is not due to the ‘new’ role the Royal are taking on with littoral raiding?
Not sure there are enough Royal or T26 platforms available 😉 , but, hey ho.
Cruiser? She’s smaller than a Constellation class frigate.
I think the 5in gun and the Chinook capable flight deck justify the cruiser epithet.
Half inch matters when talking size of weapon !!!!!!!! Yeah bigger magazine
She doesn’t have the dual cannon like we had in the old days though. 😉 Always loved the twin 4.5″.
Dec 10th 1981 HMS London fired all four from A and B turrets In what may have been the Navy’s last Broadside Single barrel only good for smoke rings Lusty
Oh yes. If I remember the quote…
“Billiards again tonight” (something like that) – 1982.
When the Type 31’s come online with 3 guns they might just manage a small broadside.
Yes they are going to be nasty for small boats ( Iranian small boat swarms would not work so well with a T31 gun armament, it’s one of the reasons I really warmed to the concept, it really looked thought through when you get down to it).
when i was on the old blake and she fired the 6 inch gun the whole ship shuddered….brilliant.
But bigger than a Dredger, you know what they say “Dredgers can’t be Cruisers”
Her weight is comparable to WWII cruisers
Not according to the wiki. She is 8k tonnes fully loaded. A metre shorter but a metre wider in the beam.
Shortish and fatish. Similar to Boris.
🙂
Lol… HMS Boris! 😁
😄
Really? T26 is 8000 t as opposed to 7921 t for Constellation (both fully loaded). Length 149 m against 151 m, beam 20.8 m v 19.8 m so pretty much the same or arguably T26 slightly bigger by most measures. I agree mind that neither are cruisers by modern or traditional standards (Belfast is 11000 t as a comparison or a Ticonderoga class cruiser 9800 full load while the Moskva was 1140 t when it was afloat) but certainly large ships by any standard esp for a Frigate, even a destroyer, for example it’s 8500 t and 152.4m for a… Read more »
I thought the constellation was aroid. 2-2.5k tonnes. A Leander class cruiser was around 7.4k tonnes at standard load which is comparable to a Type 26.
Numerically largest class of British light cruiser in WW2 seems to have been the Dido class… displacement 5,450 BRT.
That’s a very good point, not all that much heavier than a Type 22
But then the Topaz class of Protected cruisers where about 3,000t.
Which is why I always hate it when people use Belfast as a comparison, it’s very arbitrary.
Historically Cruisers had 6 inch guns, and Heavy Cruisers had 8 inch. As mentioned the Dido’s were 5500 tons. Destroyers were 2000 tons with 4 or 5 inch guns.
Today Frigates are ASW, Destroyers are AAW and the gun size is not the distinction. I think all warships should have a bit of everything or be easily configurable as you don’t always know what ships will be available.
No. In the Inter-war period and WW2 they had 6 inch guns. “Heavy Cruisers” where not even a thing until the Washington Naval Treaty. Don’t fall into the trap of using a narrow 28 year period to base your view of history on. As I said, it’s arbitrary. Same goes for Destroyers: Fleet escort destroyers of the 2nd World War where around 2,000 tonnes. Yes, but again this is a narrow definition. “Historically” a lot of destroyers came in under 1,000t displacement, some as small as 300t. (Oh and btw in WW2 Frigates were also ASW, the RN divided it’s… Read more »
You can disappear up your own arse on the nomenclature, its pretty irrelevant. The roles and capabilities of modern ships compared to their forebears has vastly changed. Using the metre of the old named classes is pointless, you could use the metre of how many aircraft they carry so pretty much everything from an OPV upwards would be a small aircraft carrier. They have to call them ‘something’ so have stuck with the old names for classes of vessels but none of them are much like their predecessors. Even aircraft carriers (the proper ones with gazillions of planes as opposed… Read more »
I mean yeah, that’s pretty much my point. Just with the angle that even in WW2 (which people fixate on as some kind of standard for what ships classes are) the roles and capabilites had vastly changed from their fore bearers.
The Darings with their 6 x4.5″ guns were the epitomy of classic destroyers in RN. Even then people were muttering about them being cruisers. 2750 tons or thereabouts.
Agreed, but I’m probably thinking of a different Daring class…😃
Ummm no a type 26 is a bit less longer ( by about 8 feet) but has a wider beam and has a greater tonnage.
But a constipation class is still cruiser sized. Frigate and destroyer designations have very little bearing of the size of a ship.
“constipation” class….? Lol… 😂Thank you for the extra lol…
It was an auto correct, but it made me laugh so much I kept it in.
Uhm…..
Constellation class
Deep load: 7,500t
Length:151m
Width: 20m
City class:
Deep load: 8,000t
Length: 149m
Width: 21m
Odd definition of “smaller.” Shorter? Yes. But wider and displacing more.
Never let the facts get in they way of a good rant.
No, she’s not. Type 26s will displace about 1,000 tons more. Length will be about the same, Type 26s will be 3 feet wider.
i hope she can do all it says on the tin, and that the curse of fitted for but not with doesn’t happen like it seems with everything else.
Would be great to see the T31 later in the build also. Babcock are saying the T31 can be built in their new sheds without scaffolding. Looking at these photos that would be a considerable saving in time and cost 🙂
Hi Expat. I was just thinking about that! The scaffold gives complete and constant cover but must be hugely expensive. Cherry pickers and cradles could handle some of the work. In the sheds I presume they would have some fixed platforms or levels or pits with permanent access points or how do they do it? In the building industry we use all three. A big problem in accessing the side elevations in ships though is the change in profile at different heights. Cherry pickers can handle this but swings are another matter although one can rein them in to accommodate… Read more »
Extendable side platforms from the sides of the sheds with walkways and proper stairs to access them?
I’m not entirely sure how Babcock will execute the build to remove or reduce the need for scaffolding. As you suggest so flexible platforms or gantries. They may be trying to have more complete blocks and thus reduce the need to have scaffolding. Would be great if Babcock produced a short video to show how they plan to build. I know Babcock worked with OMT who are specialist in ship yard optimization so I assume they have contributed to improving productivity and removing unnecessary steps or task that don’t add to the build. I’ve worked in manufacturing and we always… Read more »
Exactly the right thought process.
I work in construction and it is an uphill task to get everyone on the same page about efficiency…..
It’s everywhere mate, the skill it’s finding a way to get them all sort of lined up and arguing about the same thing at least.
I also work in construction SB and the other big factor in access issues is the truly stupid designs that some architects come up with(some of my best friends are, however architects 😃) It is as though their brief is to make the building almost impossible to access for maintenance!
On subject, HMS Glasgow is really starting to look like a warship! Will be great to get a proper look when they strip the scaffold
Did anyone see how they did it at Harland and Wolf during the Olympic class builds that was shown in the Building of the Titanic programme last week. Amazing bit of gantry technology with lifts and everything and only dismantled in the 60s.
Hopefully if BAE get their planning through for Bigger Sheds Sheets and scaffolding will be a thing ticked off the expenditure list for good
Now that would be a big step forward Tommo
Expat looking at the Photos I did wonder if Glasgow had incorporated the new Kevlar sail rig curtesy of the SNP Green party wing
Geez the scaffolding looks I suspect not unfamiliar to a ship builder at Thames Ironworks in the 1890s from pics I have seen.
Why don’t BAE systems invest in a new shed? It doesn’t make sense in the long run not to do the investment. I know that eight are planned but that means we’ll be spread very thin. I know the UK’s finances are shot to pieces but perhaps we could have afforded at least 12? It’s only another £4billion and in the grand scheme of things not much of a hit to the public finances…We could also seek to up the numbers of type 31 as well so say 12 as well. That way we at least have a decent number… Read more »
Certainly now matter how you cut it, 30 escorts is the minimum sensible level, it should never have gone below…. Alas Blair and Cameron thought differently!
The Tories appear to be tight lipped about any increase in defence spending, Labour have of course said they would increase it …. Easy when you’re not in power to say what you like (or nowhere near being in power) to promise of course!
John I would agree with everything you say. The other thing that worries me is that no one in government seems concerned about value for money (VFM) in anything these days from defence, police, education, NHS, overseas aid, housing, benefits etc. We have loads of metrics but nothing that really deals with VFM. If our Victorian ancestors could see us now….Oh how the mighty have fallen. They always sought to get best VFM from each shilling spent but both the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems are all fiscally incontinent on things we don’t need and then tighten the belt on… Read more »
Plenty of examples of Victorian wastage and poorly executed projects.
Same goes for the supposedly uber-efficient Germans.
I’ll have you know that pamerstons Follies have stood the test of time Great VFM have stood up longer than The TRICORN if your from Portsmouth your know and also so many holiday makers to Southsea beach want too know about the 3 forts in the solent are and do people live on them Our Victorian Ancestors knew a thing or two about building to Last shame the French didn’t have a go oh well at least a lot of Brickies had jobs
Agree Maus super tank anyone? Or Thor the monster mortars or Schwer Gustav. Ludicrous expenditure of resources and industrial output/ man power. So much for German efficiency. Would have been better building nothing by Panthers in their thousands and FW fighter bombers. Stick to a few weapons that work.
Translated to modern day Britain that means Boxer, Eurofighter, F35B, Type 26/31/83 in adequate numbers and a follow on batch of astute class subs.
What do they say about rose tinted glasses…..
I don’t think it is rose tinted. If you think the police, education and NHS are good value for money then we definitely disagree. I think the MoD overall is actually one of the more efficient areas of government compared to the rest. We really need to focus more on value for money metrics rather than some of the other metrics people are using.
Millions died in India and Ireland because of famine exasperated by the decision of Victorian governments. It was also the era that oversaw the Crimean War that exposed the structural issues in the army, the great stink in London where members of parliament almost feinted and the sinking of HMS Captain which demonstrated that even at the height of Britain’s sea power the Navy could make some monumental mistakes. But apart from the above and the outbreaks of cholera and the high infant mortality rate the Victorian era was fantastic!
Yes and we have the shutdown of the whole economy for something that had the mortality figures of a common cold….We also had vast swathes of the NHS sitting on their backsides…and I say this as someones cousin who was in the NHS that didn’t work because she was fat and smoked but was proud to have the jab before other more worthy elderly (I feel personally ashamed she did this)…We can all be selective about things but the Victorians invented the modern world. You talk about cholera but it was the Victorian’s that worked out why it was caused… Read more »
First, you are spreading untrue information about COVID mortality being comparable to the comman cold. Please provide some peer reviewed journal articles that support your opinion. I’m not denying the contribution the Victorians made to the modern world which was immense. What I was disagreeing with was the implication arising from your statement ‘if only the Victorians could see is now’. I instead disagree with your pessimistic view and believe we have progressed considerably across so many metrics. Take infant mortality which now is four per thousand deaths but in 1900 was 228.08 per thousand, or 57 times worse. I… Read more »
If you look at the rates of “deaths involving” flu/Pneumonia and those associated with covid-19 they are broadly similar. Check our the ONS statistics and the table below https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/mortalityratesinvolvingfludeathsandcovid19deathsin2021 Yes I note the differences in “death involving” and “deaths due”. However, both diseases require that the host has some underlying disease which means they are more vulnerable than the normal population and pre-existing issues that may pre-dispose them to increase mortality. Therefore, one expect that the deaths involving will be broadly comparable. Now given that covid-19 patients experience more severe symptoms this has probably significantly skewed the “deaths due”. Analysing… Read more »
If you don’t think there was rampant corruption and abuse of working people in the “good old days” I don’t think you’ve met too many people. People don’t change in the short term. Systems do.
Hi Something Different Many Victorians thought they were living at the pinnacle of human achievement – where science and engineering could solve all their problems. They definitely had the self-confidence (or hubris!) to embrace big, ambitious infrastructure projects. We’re still using some of it today! Central government though was small, believed in laissez-faire economics, and localism. Indeed men such as Charles Trevelyan argued that problems like famine were the responsibility of local civic-society – not Whitehall. Interestingly, the Highlands of Scotland were also affected by the same potato-blight, but the relief measures more successful. (Maybe more reading needed on that… Read more »
I’m not denying the progress made during the Victorian era but the only reason that the Highlands did not succumb to wide spread famine was because the government stepped away from their laissez-faire dogma because of the lessons learned from a million dead Irish people.
Agreed. laissez-faire is great if you’re at the top of the pile….
Hi Alan The famine was a very interesting case and not many people actually understand the route causes. The Irish tend to blame the English, but they actually blame them for the wrong crime. The reason the potato famine was so devastating in Ireland goes all the way back to the 1703 Property act. Now this is a piece of legislation that would today becalmed pure ethnic cleansing. It basically creates different inheritance rules for catholic and Protestant. The Protestant could leave all his land to the elders son so farms could stay whole and productive. Catholic’s had to divide… Read more »
In fairness to the senior service HMS Captain was not a Navy mistake, it was designed by a private citizen and the navy attempted to reject it because they KNEW it was unstable. Basically parliament had taken Cole’s side (the guy who designed and built it) over the Navy’s, and the Navy has to toe the line. After it’s sinking the Navy used the even to say “NO!” to any private individual designing a ship for them.
People only focus on the defence procurement cock-ups, not on the majority of the projects that go well.
Well I would agree we don’t have nearly sufficient numbers for policing purposes but what do you define as value for money? The problems I found were insufficient numbers for patrol purposes (hence the overuse of “single crewing”) and a top heavy command structure….. (i could go on….) but I will say that the vast majority of patrol officers are doing their best with what they’re given. I suspect it is the same in the NHS and the armed forces as regards the front line staff.
Beware of greenfly?
But it does look like all that Russian money coincides with decades of nonsensical defence decisions. We can pat ourselves on the backj that Russia isn’t the terror we feared in terms of operational & technical ability, but we need to wake up before they correct their errors. So far our conventuional deterrent has failed. China is coming-fast, hence the far east arms race & a PLAN fleet build program to directly challange the USN. Funny how austerity, cuts & efficiency savings never hit MPs pay. Looks strange not having HMS Glasgow on a slipway. If anything goes wrong shifting… Read more »
The Far East arms race is definitely a real thing. The like of Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, Australia etc are spending massive amounts of money & on really high end gear. None of them can match China on quantity & quantity matters. So does quality. If you can’t do one, do the other.
Not sure I agree there. As I understand things the Treasury tests departmental spending plans for VFM. So for example a 3 lane motorway is value for money…until it isn’t. An open plan hospital design is value for money…until it isn’t. PFI is value for money …until it isn’t. Selling off UK nuclear generation patents are value for money …until it isn’t . Small armed forces are VFM until they aren’t. And so on. The problem with VFM is that it too often leads to short term financial justification for poor decisions you wouldn’t have taken if you followed a… Read more »
Coherent, long term & value for money should not be in the same political sentence as they are not compatible with vote grubbing.
The electorate is complicit in allowing itself to be deceived.
Agreed!
It’s how public finance works its all based on in year balancing and not long term sustainability or efficiency. Most in year savings cost a packet later but they just don’t care. starve social services now cost billions on the nhs later. Don’t fund public health, created an overweight diabetic population that costs the budget of a small country for the next 40 years… don’t build any nuclear power stations….pay out the noise for fossil fuels a decade later. Dont have the money but want it now, pay on tick and spend a decade paying of interest. Its the ultimate… Read more »
The problem is short termism Andrew. ALL the parties are only worried about what happens ‘on their watch’. To be fair that’s not just political parties, its the way a lot of organisations are run.
If Labour get in then God forbid us if Sir Keir makes Comrade Corbynski Defence Secretary
Corbyn doesn’t have the Whip so that’s unlikely he’s going to get a place anywhere near a Starmer’s cabinet. I think a more pronounced security concern is the prospect of having a far right (I don’t buy her detoxification efforts) pro Putin leader in charge just 20 miles over the channel. Vichy Mk II anyone?
I don’t buy it, the liberal set in Europe are having kittens about the electorial prospects in France and slinging as much mud as possible to derail her prospects…
There’s certainly more ‘Putin’ in the Liberal pro EU organisations that would attempt to ensure a totally legal democratic process is subverted in France.
Always the way of things, liberal values are only ‘liberal’ if you fully agree with them, if you don’t, you get cancelled …. Just look at the shocking way certain forces joined in an attempt to derail Brexit, a solid democratic, voted for mandate.
Le Pen’s party appears to have received large amounts of cash from Russia and her immediate predecessor in her party is a holocaust denier.
Perhaps so, but at least she doesn’t wear a cheap syrup like Macron …. Never trust a man who wears a syrup, they always have something to hide, the hairpiece is probably paid for by the EU too…..
In all seriousness, the pro European brigade are absolutely having kittens as she looks like she’s getting within reach of power…. Certainly closer than she’s got before…..
Her policies are decidedly center left to be honest, but that doesn’t play to the hysteria Macrons lot want, so it’s all Putin slurrs and implied Fascist sympathy….
Same old, same old ….
derail Brexit, a solid democratic, voted for mandate.
Could we at least agree on the need for more T26?
Absolutely David, 12 would be sensible….
Not to mention a new Trump or Trump apologist Govt across the pond. Left and right are pretty much indistinguishable apart from whether they wear red shirts and blue shorts or blue shirts and red shirts, it’s democratic v extremist that’s the difference these days and even that isn’t always clear sadly.
SD I don’t wish no know about his Bedroom antics ,sorry I Realise hes returned too the back benches and will no longer make a laughing stock of the Labour Party at weds PM question time with his great introduction of “I have an Email from Mrs C” everyweek. And across the Channel Le Penn is just a carbon copy of her Father but unfortunately France have 2 choices at this present time Of which neither has shown a outright show of French flare on issues that is affecting European cohesion With the crisis in the East they are both… Read more »
Well said.
I pray every day Corbin will just sort of fuck off and shut up. He makes a traditional workers party labour man like me cringe in despair.
Well as he doesn’t even have the whip at the moment that is highly unlikely.
That’s not going to happe. Now, please settle down dear and have some more cocoa, there, there.
I’ll have you know I’m quite partial too a generous mug of Ki , As I have just received an email from Mr C of Islington who asks Can he have his Whip back
Ooh, that was nasty. I think even Daniele will appreciate this Labour Party’s approach to defence when we come to power. Let’s face it, our current PM is a fantastic piece of advertising, long may he remain in power until the next election!
Iirc, was it not 32 escorts as a minimum?
Plus 12 SSNs and a full fat air mobile Royal Bde equipped with M777, and I’m on board.
I’m all for booting out Boris David, he’s an utter embarrassment ….
The Tories need a new leader asap.
I’m afraid you will have a long wait for the next Labour government mate, they will probably close the gap ( it’s an electoral chasm to close) , but it’s going to take more than a slick leader … It will take believable and fully costed policies, not just criticism.
Re the numbers, fully with you mate……
Quit frankly at this point my main political ambitions for this country are for Boris and the rest of the ministers of state to find some Small shred of honour and decency and all sod off stage left. I would like to see a senior Tory with integrity ( Hunt ect) get a cabinet that at least has a grasp of the moral fibre to govern.
For me it’s Boris, he absolutely has to go, he’s crossed the line and become a liability, as they all eventually do, Thatcher, Blair etc….
That said, Boris had his use, he put his shoulder into Brexit and got it sorted, May was a wet weekend and just capitulated….
Boris probably handled the worst of Covid and organised a world leading vacation campaign very well.
I don’t buy blaming him for the lack of PPE, after all he had just come into power, blame that one on Cameron’s dangerous cuts…
Completely agree on the PPE, that was Cameron and Osbourne all the way. What was sad is it was the cuts that cost us so much as we needed to panic buy PPE as the strategic pandemic stocks had been left to rot. One of the very good decisions of the last labour government was a full review of how the nation could manage a pandemic ( it was a 25 on the national risk registering and has been since swine flue. 25 means: 5 for likelihood, it’s going to happen soon and 5 for outcome, it’s going to be… Read more »
Can’t argue with that Jonathan…. One of my main bugbears with that odious man Blair was his Champaign glass self congratulations on ‘saving the NHS’ , in reality it was mainly smoke and mirrors, Hospitals built with PPI money, that were a perfect storm of financial trouble coming down the road! And Labour blames the Tories for ‘ privatisation of the NHS’ talk about people in glass houses… Worst of the lot was Cameron, his cuts were wildly dangerous and reckless in so many areas, his defence cuts, crisis management cuts ( PPE, mothballed decontamination units in fire stations etc,… Read more »
It was reported a few months ago that BAE have put in a planning application to increase the size of the sheds
Try this for information taken from https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=54877&p=0 It is open source and you need no login detail to have a look. Reference: 21/02755/PAN Community Cnl: Govan Address: Shipyard 1048 Govan Road Glasgow Proposal: Erection of extension to ship block and outfit hall, demolition of buildings to accommodate extension and associated works Additional Consultations Required Date Received: 31.08.2021 Earliest Date for Planning Application: 16.11.2021 Prospective Applicant: BAE Systems Naval Ships Agent Details Arch Henderson LLP George Bowie 142 St Vincent Street Glasgow [email protected] Contact details for prospective applicant: Arch Henderson LLP George Bowie 142 St Vincent Street Glasgow [email protected] Ward: Govan… Read more »
they have but it inludes demolishing a listed building (supposedly the best of it’s type in the UK). Plenty of cleared land at Scotstoun, though
…
Hi Andrew. 11 extra escorts is a very nice ambition, but the cost is a big hit to the defence budget. The purchase price on paper might not seem that earth shattering, but the operating costs over 25-30 years adds up to a very big bill. And the biggest problem is getting the manning in place to crew these extra vessels. The plan to increase the escort fleet to 24 is a sensible one looking at the budget levels expected and the difficulties in recruitment and retention. Not saying it can’t be done. But realistically, it would take a very… Read more »
and there is the issue with all the posts that we could buy so and so and it would only cost this much. Until very recently we had ship tied up because we had no crews for them
Perhaps it isn’t a big hit if we factor in the following: scale reduces price of each asset and it’s maintenance we need to buy ships anyway, moving from one type to another can offset the cost between the 2 classes (ie: replace a hunt class with a T31) the threat environment has changed and the need for more ASW assets is now clear. more efficient ships require less crew so no real uptick in overall RN numbers. all of this happens over a long period of time and is therefore negligible over an annual period, circa £400m pa of… Read more »
Yes on costs are always interesting. 200 crew with say an average wage of 30k would cost 8 million a year…. in wages, pension and taxes. That’s not including training and all the development needs.
24 escorts would be a brilliant place to be:
6 AAW
8 ASW
10 GP and autonomous mother ships
especially with the 5 rivers to cover more mundane tasking.
Its clear that space is premium at the BAe yard. But its still difficult to understand how Babcock with a 1.25 billion order for 5 ships are investing in modern facilities and BAe with 3.7 billion order for 3 hulls and guaranteed follow on order for 5 more are investing far less.
When is she due to be floated?
Looking at the photos I would say BAE needs a bigger site/fabrication sheds if they are going to build more of these.
BAE planning to expand Glasgow shipyard (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)
Floating is towards the end of 2022.
are you forgetting that fitting out will be done at Scotstoun rather than Govan?
Nope, what makes you say that ? I am asking when she is expected to be floated ( before being towed to Scotstoun).
No I am starting to see some of the time restrains in the construction time. I always took the time line to be down to the Treasury slowing the build down due to finance. It appears to me that it is also due to space. If as said in the article that the Glasgow will be ready to go in the water at the end of the year it looks like that will be the earlest time that Cardiff can have the two halves joined together. The space in the sheds seem to indicate that Belfast is moving quite slow… Read more »
Yes it does not look like a drumbeat of more that one every 18 months is not possible. But if the keep that up that’s 10 hulls every 15 years or 25 hulls over the life expectancy of 25 years, which is more than the Navy will ever need. The issue is always that pause in drumbeat of years, especially the last pause of 8 years. With a T26 hull ever 18 months and a T31/32 hull every year that 25 hulls in 15 years ( which would allow for either expansion or moving to a policy of keep for… Read more »
The build time for Glasgow is alarmingly high, I thought she was supposed to be in the water early this year, not the end of the year? Let’s hope and pray we actually have some weapons including ASW and Anti-ship to put on her soon……
Great pictures, great news.keep ’em coming.
I’m waiting for HMS Sarfend to come on line.
HMS Isle of Dogs would be a nice nod to history.
HMS BOGNOR the last resort has a jolly ring to it Or what about HMS Littlehampton” but Jack would call her HMS Small,Dick I’ll get my coat
I think HMS Barrow Island should get a mention…
What I find amazing about these pictures is the Inefficient layout of the yard for such a large vessel, Surely the basin to the right of the main sheds needs to become the main covered build area with the 2 current main buildings extended forward and across to create a massive fully covered construction hall. The current slipway would need to be moved as well, perhaps at the far right of the current basin so you could have 4 or 5 ships in build at any one time moving them right each stage until they are on the new slipway… Read more »
Excuse the ignorance but do we know if the weapons spec includes torpedoes or not? Is that just old-school thinking now? If so, when a sub is found what means will there be for taking one out? Just the Merlin or will the VLS be equipped with some form of anti-sub missile?
I believe they will be fitted with ASRoc
Nice one Levi, thanks. Doing some internet searching it looks like ASRoc has its origins as far back as the 1950s! Tried and tested then!
That is very doubtful in the short term, the medium term and possibly always.
Dp Being an old timer as well shipbourne Antisub Torps went when Ikara was retired so unfortunately I would assume any Sub found is dealt with helobourne weapons
Asroc or a USV or UAV delivered weaponry launched from the mission bay. A heavy lift drone could carry a 100lb payload 100+ miles away from the ship. Thats plenty to trouble a SSN or SSK loitering too near.
I think future ASW will be drone dominated rather than helos and missiles from a VLS. Although a VLS missile like ASROC gets to target very quickly.
Yes very true around the drones, but a good old medium rotor will still be in the mix making sure there is a well trained mind on site. ship borne ASW weapons are effectively useless against an SSN, it will either kill the surface vessel before its in range or if that’s not the mission evade away from the surface vessel. ASW ships are there to sneak about listening not trying to charge towards and SSN to get into the range of its lightweight torpedoes….the SSN is faster and has heavyweight torpedos ( sneaking up on it with a rotor… Read more »
Asroc hope you don’t mean those which the yanks had in the 60ts ?
In a highly significant development, Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby today confirmed that Ukraine has received fighter warplanes, spare parts and technical assisance from unspecified eastern european NATO members.
“Other nations who have experience with those kinds of aircraft have been able to help them (Ukraine) get more aircraft up and running,” Kirby added. As for the US role, he only specified assistance given in the shipment of some parts, but that the US has not transported whole aircraft.
“Each Type 26 will be equipped with a range of systems including the Sea Ceptor missile defence system, a 5-inch medium calibre gun, flexible mission bay, Artisan 997 Medium Range Radar, and towed array sonars. The flight deck will be able to accommodate helicopters up to the size of a Chinook, while the mission bay can quickly adapt to house and deploy vessels, vehicles and containers.”
Unimpressive fot a ship costing over £1bn.
That just shows you don’t know very much about T26.
Yes, the load out of Mk41 plus the costs in the quietness of the vessel in its very specialised ASW role which is ignored.
Rather than go for the cheap insult why not explain?
Your a big boy, read about it.
Why is that unimpressive please, what else would you put on the most advanced ASW ship on the planet ?
How has that statement of capability come across to you as unimpressive?
She will also have VLS for future ASuMs, 2 x 30mm, 2 x Phalanx CIWS, 2 x miniguns – plus assorted weaponry on 2 x embarked Wildcat helos.
And also a barrage of Harsh words
Never underestimate the power of a well timed “fuck off”.
😄
What a weak ship for the size and expense.
A drone can be from 30km distance lobbing missiles at it and can’t do anything. Not even CAMM-ER it has.
What drone mounted missile has a 30km range?
Today, Spike NLOS. You can be sure enemy countries (Iran, China etc) are also developing their equivalents.
I think what AlexS would like is for T26 to be bristling with twin Bofors 40mm out of a museum somewhere so he can try manually firing them at supersonic jets and missiles.
According to AlexS these are the real deal: wall of lead style.
Others involved in naval gunnery and ships defensive design and testing have disagreed. So throwing lead randomly is clearly the way to go as all scientific testing should be swept aside in favour of such superior knowledge!
Those 40mm/76mm were for the British ships sunk in Falklands. They had worse AAW in 1981 then Royal Navy destroyers in late WW2.
Type 26 should at least get CAMM ER and 360 fixed panel radars in 2 bands. Ideally should get Aster 30.
40/60s
Honest question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdwjcayPuag
Is something like that no good then ????
Yes and no. It is a cheap way of providing a wall of lead (tungsten in this case), that the threat has to pass through. The problem is that if the threat makes erratic manoeuvres designed to counter radar tracking etc. You will expend a shed load of ammunition trying to predict where the threat will be. Therefore you will need a very large magazine for the higher number of shells needed. A better but more expensive option are guided rounds, that incorporate an impact and proximity fuse. Less rounds are needed to home in on to the threat. Such… Read more »
Sorry Alex we are going to go with the RN planners and designers who have years of experience, knowledge and skills in this field, who know how to design, equip and fight modern warships, as opposed to a guy who is from Portugal who likes to slag off capabilities his own military could only ever dream of! Cheers.
So you want to close ukdefencejournal and defer to “RN planners and designers who have years of experience, knowledge and skills in this field”…?
40/60’s…..Oh Yeh, I remember them, hehe, bang…. click. Ah well, back to sleep. Gun Ex, RustyB, 2E mess deck. Lol.
Why can’t it fire Sea Ceptor at the drone?
It is at 30km distance. Sea Ceptor(CAMM not ER version) is said to be 25km range.
Actually, this ship will have more firepower than any current frigate in the RN, why would you say it is weak? I am sure seaceptor can engage and take out drone missiles much more easily than a sophisticated OTH Ashm.
Drone missiles of this range 30-40km are smaller so more difficult to detect, they are also cheaper so more of them can be build.
Is there not a better way to employ the sailors operating the DS30M, miniguns and GPMGs on this ship? Wouldn’t they be better off operating 4 to 5 modern stabilised turrets with larger cannon and machines guns coaxial to them. Perhaps even radar guided for fast and high manoeuvring targets. Feel free to shoot me down if I am talking nonsense. My expertise is land based.
The 30mm will be controlled from the CMS.
Although I suspect they might morph into 40mm for the programmable extended range rounds.
Yes, the mini guns and GPMG will be manual but that is sometimes still needed. Although these will likely be gyro stabilised.
That and… honestly why get a radar guided system for 7.62? The cost benefit for that would be insane!
I meant coaxially mounted to the main gun similar to most land platforms. I certainly would not radar guide a GPMG.
…Why would you mount it coaxially to a main gun? In a land platform a chaingun is mounted but that’s because a land platform has a lot more limited space and it’s main gun has a 360 field of fire. It would also be controlled very differently to the 4.5/5in (remember in a MBT/IFV the gunner sits right next to the gun, while in a ship it’s controlled from the CIC). Much simpler (and cheaper) for such a basic capability to be mounted on a rail and use the sighting system already installed on it.
I would certainly bot mount an MG next to the main gun. My point was more to do with getting the most out of the sailors manning the unstablised GPMGs and Minigus on these ships. If they were in independent turrets with 30, 40 or 57mm armed and stabilised cannon with a coaxially mounted GPMG or chain guns you would get more capability out of that sailor. More cost yes, better capability definitely. It just seems a waste to give them a MG.
Still doesn’t really solve the issues. GPMG’s and Miniguns don’t really need stabilisation as they are for very niche roles (basically supporting boarding actions or policing duties as). First of all you’ll need to change the mounts out to allow greater depression on the 30’s (on a 57mm on a Type 31 which is the main gun, no mount alteration will enable depression to engage a small craft alongside). Next the Sailors manning the GPMG’s aren’t permanently assigned to it, in fact most of the time it’ll be in the ships armoury, only brought out on deck when the situation… Read more »
Got it, thank you for taking the time to explain. I am very aware of the maintenance needed for GPMGs (and cannons) and I am sure sea air does not help the issue. I note the T31 will receive a mixture of medium calibre guns and it is these sort of systems I would expect to see more of. That said more guns means more maintenance and a larger crew. I would just hate to see a warship of size and cost go down through any lack of defensive armaments. I’m sure those that sail on her will do there… Read more »
Never let exorbitant cost get in the way of a bad idea. It’s been the number one policy of every sitting government since…….someone first uttered the words “I’m the King”.
A bit off topic, but I had to post this, one russia oligarch lost his shit and went on an anti war rant at Putin on social media. I did love the:
“Waking up with a hangover, the generals realised that they have a shit army.
“And how will the army be good, if everything else in the country is shitty and mired in nepotism, sycophancy and servility?”
Even many of the oligarchs actually thin Putins russia is a fucked up shit pile.
What an antiquated build method , why are these not being built indoors using a building dock and the finished ships floated out , clearly No foresight in investment , these ships would be built more efficiently in modern facilities not old slips or load out berths , no wonder uk shipbuilding can’t compete with foreign yards
That was what killed british ship building in the last century the ship building company’s just sat back and sucked on the the cash cow that was the RN and merchant navy. The rest of the world invested money in tooling and infrastructure, the British industry in shareholder dividends. They woke up one day to a world they could not compete in with little national demand.
The same shipbuilding industry that recently built two 65k aircraft carriers. Can build world beating nuclear submarines which are the most complex machines ever built by mankind. And the T26 will be among the finest ASW Frigates in the world. Shed or no shed.
Hi Robert I think johns comment was more about wider ship building, there is no question we have maintained the skills to build first class warships of all types. But the reality is that we only have the capacity it build for the limited number of ships the RN needs and no more. As an example even as late as 1976 ( well into it decline) the U.K. ship building industries launched 130+ hull at almost 1.50 million tons. By 2013 U.K. ship builders launched four hulls. The decline of the U.K. ship building is a national tragedy, we were… Read more »
I certainly agree that we can build amazing bits of kit, but I also support the argument for investment. BAE have dragged their heels for far too long over this particular facility, and while it’s encouraging to see plans to expand the sheds shown here, it does fall short of the original plans. I bet it will be delayed as well due to the demolition of a listed building, although I’m happy to be corrected if the plans have proceeded. Babcock’s investment (the shed and the retention of the rather impressive crane) is welcome, and will put the yard in… Read more »
Look at Fincantieri,their methods look even more outdated – the FREMM and PPA are pretty much assembled completely outside but they can still build efficiently.
I am shocked as to how cramped that site is. No wonder we could only have 8 Type 26 Frigates and at a Glacial rate too. Lest we forget; before Brown sold 3 to Chile, we had 15 Type 23 Frigates. Everything has been half cock. 6 Type 45’s relacing 12 Type 42’s. I reckon we will be lucky to get 3 Type 81’s whatever they are and 3 Type 26’s at this rate. I blame BAE for any failure. Their yard is way to small and a nonsense of inefficiency. They should have used the money from the Rivers… Read more »
I think the blame really has to go to successive governments since the end of the Cold War Jonno, orders always behind the curve, drip fed finance and limited numbers…
All these things make it hard for a company to invest in expanded facilities…
I understand what you are saying, however a few years ago BAE had the privilege of a monopoly of Escort ship construction and a very good deal of assured minimum orders. I’m so disappointed that with so large a responsibility of the nations security in their hands they didn’t invest in a new yard because at the time we were still talking about 13 Type 26’s. Really annoys me that. I’m sure we could have had 9 for the same price with a more efficient yard!
these ships are far more suited to the designation of destroyer than a frigate.
how come modern frigates look like destroyers, do they have to be so big, i remember the sizes of the blackwood and russell class’ they weren’t the same size as other nations cruisers, but were very good at what they were designed to do. maybe we are overegging the job such a sized warship with modern systems e.t.c miht be a good starting place for a t32 design