HMS Anson is £1.3bn of both naval stealth and striking power say the Royal Navy – able to gather vital intelligence, protect other Royal Navy vessels from threats above and below the waves and destroy enemy military infrastructure with pinpoint accuracy.
The latest Astute class submarine to be built by BAE Systems, HMS Anson, was officially commissioned into the Royal Navy during a ceremony at BAE Systems’ site in Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria, today.
It has taken more than 11 years – and some 20 million hours’ work by an estimated 10,000 people from 400 firms and organisations across the UK – for the 7,800-tonne boat to be ready for action. At 97 metres long and with a displacement of 7,800 tonnes, the nuclear-powered submarine is the fifth of seven in the Astute class. The Astute submarines are recognised as the most technologically advanced attack submarines ever operated by the Royal Navy.
The traditional naval ceremony was attended by a number of dignitaries, including the submarine’s Lady Sponsor, Mrs Julie Weale, the Australian Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles and the UK Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace, who said:
“Today is a significant milestone in the UK and Australia’s preparation to confront growing threats to the liberal democratic order, especially in the Indo Pacific. Not only have we progressed our defence planning but Minister Marles participated in the commissioning of our latest attack submarine, on which Royal Australian Navy submariners will be embarked as we develop our shared capabilities in the years ahead.
Built in a UK shipyard, HMS Anson demonstrates the very best of British industry, sustaining our world-leading sub-surface capabilities and underlining the UK’s readiness to contribute them to shared security, especially with our closest allies Australia and the United States under the AUKUS initiative.”
BAE Systems Chief Executive, Charles Woodburn, said:
“The Astute class submarines are among the finest engineering accomplishments in the world. As the custodian of the UK’s submarine design and build capability, we’re incredibly proud of the role we play in the delivery of this strategic national endeavour.”
The boat’s first Commanding Officer, Commander David Crosby, said that given the effort, skill and enterprise invested in constructing the submarine – made more challenging over the past two and a half years by the restrictions imposed by the pandemic – “HMS Anson would go on to be the best Astute-class submarine yet”.
“Among tough competition, that is a bold claim, but I fully believe it; she will be successful on operations for years to come and be envied by nations across the globe. The good fortune to be commanding officer of the most advanced and capable attack submarine ever built in the UK on her commissioning day is the greatest honour of my submarine career.”
BAE Systems already employs more than 10,000 people in its Submarines business – and that number is set to grow. More than 500 apprentices are due to join later this year, up from 321 in 2021, to support the delivery of these major programmes. This year, BAE Systems say they will be recruiting more than 1,000 new engineers, designers, welders, supply chain managers and many other roles across the company’s Maritime and Land sector UK businesses.
Looking at both happy snaps would I be correct to presume that the entire platform (first picture) lowers itself into the water (Queue appropriate sound track)
Yes, ship lift.
When is the next boat due to be launched?
Maybe add a few more to the build program. 3% GDP might appear soon. Just a thought.
With the Dreadnought program spinning up is there capacity within the yard for more SSNs alongside the SSBNs?
In a word, No.
There will be. I know
Allowing for the recession we are entering and inflation by some forecasts heading to 20% + and thd paying for a lot of kit and all fuel in dollars, that might just keep defence spending level in real terms.
If they’ve got some spare shed space somewhere…
There won’t be any more Astutes. Rolls Royce delayed building the PWR-3 refuelling centre for several years so it could handle refuelling Vanguard’s PWR-2. They can only cope with one reactor size at a time. So now they’ve moved on to PW-3 for Dreadnought, going back to PWR-2 would need totally new facilities. I can’t see that happening without Australia throwing unnecessary money into UK infrastructure. As Astutes aren’t big enough to house PWR-3, the only way to move forward would be to build oversized Astutes, or Dreadnoughts cut down to attack class size. In effect that would be an… Read more »
The problem for the Government here in Australia (with a decision due in March 2023), is which design to choose, there are plus and minus with both. Astute is probably about the right size, and crew size, but the PWR2 reactor is out of production and reportedly the PWR3 is too big to fit, added to that is the UK boat doesn’t have the desired combat system or weapons too. On the other hand Virginia Blk IV is probably too large, and a large crew requirement too, but does have the required combat and weapons systems. If Astute was chosen,… Read more »
Or really bite the bullet and go for a latest generation, large AIP design, which is what they should have always aimed for. Going nuclear is just nuts. If they started an AIP new build now it would be ready before any nuclear programme
A conventional sub doesn’t cut, AIP or not, in fact I don’t know that AIP was part of the Attack class design, nothing official either way, and further to that they left it out of Collins, for good reason I was told. The problem for the RAN is both transit speed and transit distance from the bases on the south western coast of Oz to the far northern operational areas, and that’s before the question of time on station too. There simply is no conventional off the shelf solution. Regardless, both sides of politics here in Oz support the plan… Read more »
Doesn’t cut the mustard in the pacific against improving nuclear attack subs, especially bearing in mind Australia will always be put numbered by China so they need technology edge. The distances are huge and there will be no place to refuel
Dont forget the Indian Ocean either.
Oz is surrounded by big oceans and I agree Conventional Submarines dont cut it any more unless they are just for coastal defence of the home base and the narrow seas around the islands to the north, which would mean a one way trip to Valhalla.
Of concern is the slide politically of the USA which may make them an unreliable partner in a relatively few years time. Lets hope that isn’t true of the UK too.
For the Pacific and Australian needs a nuclear boat is the best option. Even the lastest AIP boats will not have the same strategic mobility as an nuclear boat. Nuclear boats Effective cruising speed is their flank speed..that’s what makes them a strategic weapon system and not an area denial weapon like a conventional boat. when your area of operations is potentially 638000,000Square miles strategic mobility is everything. The best AIP can go three weeks without snorkelling, but they are still only cruising at around 8 knots to get At best around 8000-10,000 mile ranges ( if they go to… Read more »
I think it’s worth checking out the joint press conference given by the UK/AUS Ministers of Defence, particularly the last paragraph. Here’s how Ben Wallace finished up.
So Wallace is looking to a UK/US/AUS shared design with boats hitting the water for all three countries in the mid-2030s.
Jon, I hope thats true. I like the idea of a collaborive design possibly of a SSN and a stretched SSN with MMP modules. It looks like the RR-PWR-3 is based on the US S9G reactor. So the powerplant is a shared platform, some of the weapons fit is shared tech so the only major thing to collaborate on is the combat information system. Collaboration should bring the cost down.
Maybe a new class of more smaller, cheaper, conventional AIP subs is needed to add numbers & availability to the sub arm? An all nuclear sub fleet is the most expensive option, limiting the numbers.
We need numbers and need to keep pace with the Communist axis, so a tri-national (or 5 including Canada and Japan) AIP would be a good plan.
AIP for the U.K. would be pointless if your looking at global deployment. They would spend there lives in transit plodding along at 8 knots.
I was thinking of their limited use as coastal blocks rather than strategic players. Have to remember the surface speed of the Oberons was at least 15kn.
The problem is with Electric boats that top speed of say 15kns on the surface or 20kns sup surface is not their cruising speed used to get any distance, most electric boats cruise speed is around 8 knots. As an example an Oberon would take around 2 and a half months (75 ish days) to get from the U.K. to Australia ( a journey of around 8 thousand miles). A nuclear boat can crack on at 700-800 miles in 24 hours so your talking 7 times faster in regards to deployment at distances and that means a lot in the… Read more »
XLUUV is the way to go, I’m pretty sure the navy’s still got an open tender on that program and seems a bit quiet from the Bae front. They better get there butts in gear as Boeing seem to be leading the field ATM but it’s like most of the UK industry seems like there isn’t much in the form of unmanned vehicles across the board under development
I thought Manta was leading the way on that for the UK, which is from MSubs.
Given the effectiveness of these submarines, the limited manning requirements and affordable cost, it’s kind of beyond me why we don’t jack up production and have many more. Realistically the UK could easily sustain production of one or two a year with the reopening of Cammell Laird for SSN production. The UK operating a couple of dozen SSN’s would be the best contribution we could make to Allie’s in the US, Australia or Europe. This is especially true given chinas naval build up and the difficulty the USN has in maintain SSN numbers.
Twelve SSN,s about equals two carriers and aircraft and before I get attacked I’m just making a comparison.
Twelve SSN crews is the same as two of our carriers minus the air group. 24 SSN crews equals around 2,400 personnel which is less than 2% of HM Forces. Not a lot for a super power sized capability.
I think there’s a lot to be said for the idea but it would take some doing.
FYI 24 SSN crews is closer to 2900-3000 personnel then 2400.
Crews run at about 115-120 per boat, they just don’t take everyone to sea when they sail.
The problem isn’t overall manning or future budgets the problem is getting people to join and stay in the submarine service, historically been one of the most difficult for crew retention
12 Astute’s = £17bn
2 QE Carriers = £7.6bn
74 x F35B = £6.5bn
That’s just CAPEX, excluding munitions and stores, and not taking OPEX into account.
The personnel and sustainment cost for 2 QE and 74 F35B are massively higher than for 12 SSN and arguably 12 SSN would be a far superior military force atleast at sea although they would also be pretty effective in land attack. In addition the 2 QE will need 4 T45, 4 T26 and 2 SSN plus 4 support ships to sustain then otherwise they are not much more than targets. The SSN needs no escort. For 0.054% of GDP per annum you could build one SSN per annum and have a fleet of 30 and you could crew it… Read more »
That doesn’t include total manning {crew x2 or 3} torpedoes. missiles. maintenance or operating cost.
You don’t factor in two things which would increase the cost of SSNs
• weapons – TLAMs are expensive and their replacements more so
• nuclear decommissioning costs
Why would we be going to war, on our own, against a superpower?! 😳
How about the running costs of this fabulous fleet of 30 SSN’s? Recruitment? Basing? It’s easy to pluck random figure’s out of thin air. Just to get back up to 10 SSN’s would take many years to achieve.
I was going to suggest recruitment is going to be the main concern with manning 30 SSN’s in addition to the rest of the fleet.
Still needs air cover as the Germans discovered to their cost after 1942/3.
Sounds right. I was roughly working on new Astute’s not costing £1.3 billion each. OPEX would probably be less?
Well the quoted cost for Anson is £1.4bn. Ordinarily if an order for another batch was placed you’d expect price to drop further, with development cost spread across more boats and the bulk ordering of items.
But I suspect inflation would probably wipe these savings out.
yes. Fair comment, especially where costs are going at the moment. Perhaps we ought to plug the nukes into the mains.😗
Funny enough, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Small Modular Reactors (SMR) being developed by Rolls Royce have a degree of similarity to those they build for the submarines…
There’s also the cost of decommissioning at the end of the submarine’s service which, for SSNs, is usually quite eye-watering as well.
Which part of £1.3 billion is not understood? The equipment budget was already broken and that is before Putin trashed the energy market. Talk of 3% of GDP is pie in the sky. Hospitals will always come first, whilst the UK defense industry has been run down to the point where it will take 10 years to build back up. Just saying.
Ummm, why are you responding to me?😀
Music that is. See it would make more strategic sense and would not be sunk with just one hypersonic SSM. Also it keeps people guessing where they are. Still, some people like big lumps of steel floating around eh? 😉
Add the VPM systems from our American cousins and we would be talking serious fire power. However, we have the carriers and we need to get them into service properly. I’m coming more and more to the conclusion that we should be looking at them as “hybrid” ships with strike, commando insertion and maybe even surface attack drones or missiles.
Too bloody right Geoff. I’ve always maintained the two carriers were a vanity project. 12 SSNs would be much more effective and feared by our enemies. Currently, on a good day we can have 3 boats at sea. That does not constitute and effective force. With 12, we could generate probably 6 fully operational boats. Now that begins to be something to cause anyone to sit up and take note.
We are always trying to do everything but never quite finish the product. There are so many parts of our armed forces where it seems to me that we should be saying. “Nice roast, where’s the gravy”
You cant ignore aircover and cede it to the opposition or you condemn yourself to being the hunted not the hunter. Long Range Drones may be the answer to supplement P8.
The original intent in 1998, when the commitment was made to a two carrier navy, was to have 32 destroyers and frigates and 10 SSNs. That was a number deemed minimal to support and complement a two-carrier fleet. And that was at a time when the international threat environment was considerably more stable.
Today, the fleet is what it is – despite a much more threatening global environment – because there is simply no money and no national will to have anything else.
Agree, it’s simply a lack of political will and also an unwillingness on the part of the MOD and the military to build anything other than a broad spectrum force preserving as many sacred cows as possible. SSN’s much like dreadnoughts pre 1914 are a rare example of a platform that’s hard to build but can dominate in major power conflict on the worlds oceans and in turn control any countries ability to fight a war. It’s very much the strategy Britain followed in the 19th and early 20th century. But moving to 24 or 30 SSN’s would cost next… Read more »
The new SSN costs £1.3bn. Moving from 8 to 24 or 30 boats would cost ‘next to nothing’ if other parts of MoD did not increase????
The army will certainly not increase in size – it is set to lose about 10,000 posts and 80 tanks as a minimum.
How does the maths and the above logic work out. Does it mean each Carrier Strike (or Task) Group needs 16 British DD/FF and 5 SSNs? Surely not.
Surely a Carrier Group needs about 4 DD/FF and they need not all be British – and a single SSN.
Not all escorts or SSNs can be operational at any given time. So to meet the commitments as of 1998, those were the minimal numbers deemed acceptable. The 32 destroyers/frigates have since become 18 and 10 SSNs have become 5, Anson seeming far from operational. … and the international threat environment is not what it was in 1998. There are now two peer adversaries for the West; there were none in 1998. Arguing that “the allies can pick up the slack” assumes that there are no specifically British national interests, only allied ones. That was proven wrong in the Falklands… Read more »
Those numbers of 32 escorts and 10 SSN was not just to escort 2 carriers. It’s for all roles. It was the numbers at the time that was viewed as the smallest fleet size to maintain Royal Navy presence as it viewed in 1998. Obviously times change and someone forgot to order enough ships and keep enough crew for 32 escorts and 10ssn. Also it could be viewed that this was the figure the size of the fleet would be after the 1998 defence review. 16 type 23 frigates 4 type 22 batch 3 frigates 12 type 42 destroyers Subs… Read more »
Morning MS I think the rot set in with the Labour defence “review”(aka cuts) in in 2003. The RN was reduced to 24 surface warships. Spot on re the reduction of 12 Type 45’s to 6. They instantly removed unrealised capital costs. I’m no expert on this, but the general theme post cold war was that Western defence capability was likely to be about half of what it was. So on that basis about 24 surfaces warships seems about right. Off course, that would be with the RN maintaining OPV’s S such as the Rivers- so one small glimmer of… Read more »
Spot on mate. Down to 12 by 2010 before the Tories added to the cuts.
Morning DM- a state of affairs. Anyhow, hope all is well in your world.
A nice reassuring vision, but wouldn’t anticipate fulfillment, short of actual wartime conditions.
The issues with navy’s in general and SSN’s in particular is that they take so long to build that any war is likely to be long over before anything new can hit the water. Australia has all the money in the world and it won’t see an SSN for 20 years. It’s one of the reason that the UK having a very large fleet of them would be a good idea. It’s not the kind of thing that many countries can have and it’s probably the ultimate super power conventional weapon that the US can wield over any other power… Read more »
Understood, simply positing the concept that production at that rate would require industrial mobilization on a scale generally associated w/ wartime. Really didn’t intend to imply a cap on possible production capability; UK GDP and workforce could produce a very large number of SSNs.
With the advances in hydrogen submarines I wonder if they could be a cheaper option for the deterrent, we could set up a new facility for hydrogen boats and barrow can focus purely on ssn(r) in the future. With barrow workload currently split 50/50 between attack and bombers we could gain efficiency buy having a single type over 20 years vs two allowing for 14-21 boats at a cheaper per unit price. As has been stated by other comments the asute is incredibly manpower efficient for its impact on a potential conflict, especially in the indo Pacific region, ssnr will… Read more »
Unfortunately Martin, that’s not the case.
CL isn’t set up to produce SSNs, no nuclear license or nuclear infrastructure. There is a serious lack of skilled personnel to start a second construction yard for SSNs, and we also have a shortage of people to man these ‘extra’ SSNs, which we are not going to overcome anytime soon.
For what I understand we’ll complete the Dreadnought then start production of the next class which could be collaborative design under AUKUS. Australia may be the first to build the new design with assistance from UK and US. A collaborative design will likely have better land attack and hypersonic launch capabilities as the US not going to forego these. If anything I’d we rather have the new design sooner than increase the number of Astutes.
We’ll have to see what Truss/Sunak do with the next defence budget and hope for some nice surprises. If this sub is so good and the RN want 1-2 more it will have to be squeezed in some how and if Australia is eyeing up the Astute or a derivative design for themselves the UK sure wouldn’t want to lose a golden opportunity like this following on from the T26 Frigate success. Any extra RN Astutes will be a real asset for CSG deployments and general ocean patrol/deep sea cable monitoring duties and in support of our allies and the… Read more »
I would t have faith in trunks of sunak. They were both part of the government for the duration. One had the purse strings and the other did nothing useful. More chance sunak gives a tax break to people with private pools due to heating costs than do anything for defence. Or some vague promise of bringing boris’s promise of increase from 2030 to 2028. (If 2028 is after the next election). Truss is already promising to undo the national insurance rise so that’s her billions in the hole before even getting in the door. If the defence sec can… Read more »
We’re a bit disconnected from UK politics down here in Australia but do hope the UK gets the best man/women available. Looks like it’s more like “strong wo-man” Truss than Sunak at the moment? I do love Boris’s sense of humour though. God, it’s goid to have a leader that can be spontaneous and make you laugh.How many on the world’s stage can do that? We’ll miss that. Plus slightly scruffy but always joviale. I guess he made one too many big mistakes and had one too drinkies. But you don’t ever see much sense of humour ever emanating from… Read more »
Forget to add, you don’t need massive increases, just incremental. I think everyone on this site has an opinion where all the current short falls are. Like the Aukus cooperation, crea sharing etc, on the subs and as others have said I hope this also translates into a few more SSN/R subs, and even a small fleet of diesel subs and UUVs for the UK.
*crea… crew
Perhaps to revert to John Notts eg Thatcher era defense sec who wanted to convert the RAF to a totally missile equiped force and the Navy to a totally submarine force radical what
I’m not advocating that just simply massively increasing one strategic capability while holding the rest steady. In the context of ww3 Knox was right, he was wrong in the context of the falklands. However SSN’s won the sea war before it started and a single SSN in the south Atlantic would have stopped the conflict before it started.
Has construction started on the new SSBN fleet yet (keel laid in Barrow as it were) or is this programmed to follow on, after the last Astute?
Construction has started yes, i think it was over a year ago.
Thanks Paul T
Hi folks hope all is well.
Great to see and once again the UK has demonstrated the high end capabilities of magnificent military technology.
Just hope the Navy don’t break this one like HNS PoW. Joking
Cheers
George
Sorry, HMS PoW!
*HMS PWLS.
**HMS PMSL (puts on tin hat and retires 100 yards 😉)
LOL
King, Queen and Prince of Wales: KERPOW!
The article fails to justify why this is more advanced than other Astutes other than the claim by the captain. All captains are biased.
It also fails to justify why the astute is the most advanced submarine in the world. It could be true but it looks like wishful thinking
As the Astute class progresses through build into service incremental improvements can and have been made .HMS Audacious was in effect the first of a batch 2 improved Astute,so logically Anson might even have improvements over that.
And if the captain had given more details people on here would rightly whinge about military secrecy being compromised. Not every thing can be broadcast over the internet.
The point is professional journalists should not headline a best in the world claim solely on the word of the captain whose job is to be biased. My mother claims that her grandchild is the best swimmer in the world.
To be the best it has to be the best in most of : weapons, sensors stealth and performance. Being the best in one or two of this is simply not good enough to justify the headline.
There is enough in the public domain to make this case
You are being unnecessarily critical of an excellent site that George runs in addition to his day job in the NHS
Exactly.
Primarily it’s due to sonar 2076, In addition it has acoustic angling that other SSN’s like Virginia lack. New Columbia class will incorporate this.
Beyond Sad we sold off the designers and builders of 2076 Sonar.
Look closely at all the flank arrays on Astute vs Virginia and you will see. Virginia has better land attack capability that astute though for sure.
For double the price I’d expect the Virginias to be better at something.
A Virginia Block III does not cost twice that of an Astute in 2022 dollars/pounds and it does have advantages over the Astute to include carrying twice as many weapons.
The Virginia Block that is the contemporary of the Astute is Block V – the last of the Block III entered service 4 years ago.
Cost of a Block V with VPM, $3.45bn
Cost of Anson, £1.45bn
Unfortunately it fits a pattern of putting rhetoric first. There is no way to know with any certainty whether Anson is superior of inferior to other SSNs out there.
I am sure similar things were said about the Queen Elizabeth class and the sad reality is that Prince of Wales sits where she sits. That speaks louder than any rhetoric.
Ridiculous comment about Prince of Wales. Brand new carrier so not surprising there’s teething troubles.
If you think it’s so bad you should cast a eye at the USNs recent vessels.
Is PoW moving? Was this a long heralded deployment that ended only a few minutes outside of Portsmouth harbour?
Has the Type 45-class progressed brilliantly since commissioning?
Is Astute production on schedule?
Is the F-35 delivery schedule progressing well? …
Was there a timely replacement of anti-ship missiles in the RN?
Something is seriously wrong with UK defence and there is no point is sticking ones head in the sand about it.
Zumwalt, Littoral Combat Ship, Seawolf submarine, EMALS, etc etc. Pretty much every nation has issues with some military procurement projects. If you think the QE class have issues you’ve clearly not been following the development of the Ford class carriers. The T45 have a bad intercooler, aside from that they’re a great ship and it’s sad an American part undermined the performance of a great air-defence destroyer. Yes the F35 delivery is on schedule, because the people buying them knew better than to blow all the cash on first versions which would be expensive to upgrade. Not to mention year… Read more »
Come on man! … as Joe Biden might say.
Because there are an increasing number of disasters elsewhere, that means there is no British incompetence … or it excuses it?
I believe if Churchill were alive, he would start by firing a lot of people. But alas, there is no Churchill these days.
Churchill? He would have laughed at you, probably listed all the defects and issues that troubled the Nelson class battleships – many of which were never and could never be resolved … and he would then point out it was HMS Rodney that took the apart piece by piece the pride of the Germany Navy, Bismark.
Fact is is there are f*ck ups and blunders made around the world in both public and private sector. It’s only the nutters that see corruption or conspiracies behind them. They’ll continue as long as humans are involved.
Churchill would have been OK with today’s Britain and with the state of UK defence? … I assume that you are likely rather young and have not read very much. But I hope that you will learn as you grow …
I assume you’re a patronising old codger who will complain about Britain today and how things were better in your day no matter what the facts.
ps: I notice you couldn’t fault my argument about comparing Prince of Wales with Rodney, so you went for the man instead. Essentially you admitted defeat by doing so 😆
pps: you’re wrong on my age too.
Gentlemen – please , you both raise valid points.
Churchill would not have been ok with a navy of only 18 escorts, an air force of 124 combat aircraft and an army that cannot deploy a division. More importantly he would have been sickened with the lack of spares and weapons.
In the past when a ship or aircraft type failed there were at least 4 other types in the pipeline.
Now when it fails we are naked.
You know it was Churchill that kept the ten year rule in place long after the point it should have been removed. Before 1940 the man’s political career was a long list of bad decisions.
I agree with you about Zumwalt and LCS being a huge waste of money. I’m not sure why you keep having a pop at the Seawolf SSN’s though as they are outstanding pieces of kit which are still world class after two decades in service. The US went for what were planned to be cheaper SSN’s in the Virginia class because they thought that the collapse of the Russian military no longer required a submarine as sophisticated and costly as the Seawolf but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the capability of the boats
She actually is moving under her own power.
Fantastic.
Agreed. Ships have problems from time to time often due to human error.
Astute class already proved their superiority over Chinas latest subs in SCS incident last year. Clearly that’s a Low bar. We also have accounts of superiority in sonar against the USS New Mexico. If you take a detailed look at an Astute externally compared to a Virginia class you can see some advanced features that Virginias don’t have.
That being said not knocking the Virginia as I am sure they have many superior qualities and we know they are better in the land attack role than Astute.
Well, she will be superior in one thing, her crew; along with the other British silent service platforms, they should be the creme de la creme, with a fighting elan that most foreign navies back away from. That deserved reputation, puts us right up there with the USN.
It cost £300m more so must have a bit more kit on board!
Spending money is not a measure of effectiveness.
Results from exercises and real world operations would confirm that statement is correct. Astute is designed to operate on its own, it is very stealthy, it’s 2076 sonar and combat management systems and weapon load out make it deadly. The price tag reflects the capability. These machines are the most complex engineering projects man kind has ever built. Including anything we have put into space.
Good news. I like good news! Welcome to service the latest HMS Anson.
I’m particularly pleased to see there will be Aussies on board.
And yet there’s still some on here that will find cause to moan and gripe… 🤷🏻♂️
Absolutely outstanding asset but 11 years is a ludicrously long build time
11 years is when they started the astute class boats this is number 5 so one every 2years
Unlike HMS Adulterer lets hope they remember to grease the propeller shafts 🙂
With the Aussies on board they will have to fit a BBQ on the deck 🙂
Congratulations are due to the RN upon the commissioning of the fifth Astute class SSN!
🎉 Certain that USN will be pleased w/ addition to “the thin blue line.” Wonder whether any inferences can be drawn re RAN selection decision of future SSN class, from the presence of the Australian Deputy PM at the commissioning ceremony? 🤔
Yes, that’s a good question! Not sure if true, but have read some comments from US saying that they would be hard pushed to take on building SSNs for AUS given what the US needs to do for itself!
Can’t see it being much different over here either, so will be interesting to see how we (UK/US) square the circle and provide AUS with SSNs in the next 10-15 yrs?
Production lines for Astute and Virginia will be ended before Australia is in a position to build anything domestically. No matter what solution they choose it’s probably going to have to be the successor vessels to Astute and Virginia. Neither the UK or the US have any domestic production capacity to turn over to Australia.
Perhaps, or Aussies may choose to develop a preplanned split SSN fleet utilizing an existing design for X subs, to be followed by a successor design for remainder. Tooling for Aussie domestic production of Astute class conceivably available post 2026? An expensive option, but perhaps the fastest turnaround time.
The UK is desperate to sell Australia SSN’s and the USN is desperate to not sell SSN’s to Australia due to lack of production to meet their own needs. I think that’s what your seeing with these moves. It’s clearly better for America for the UK and Australia to co develop a large fleet that can support the USN. However Australia was hoping for the quick and easy path of buying a couple of Virginias from a hot US production line.
There are multiple potential paths possible going forward; the big reveal is currently slated for March 2023. Co-development of SSN(R) w/ multiple choices of CMS, sensors, weapons, etc., is certainly one plausible alternative. Believe there are at least a dozen conceivable variations on the theme. If we really wished to make this intervening period of speculation interesting, we could organize a betting pool; perhaps George A. would be willing to hold the stakes. If the pot grows large enough, would have to ensure any AUKUS associated ringers would be excluded from participating. 😁
Yeah, the main things is for all 3 AUKUS partners to get bigger and better SSN fleets and maintain an over match against china even if china is able to push beyond USN numbers on its own. The USA and UK could not to that against the USSR in the Cold War but hopefully AUKUS can do it now.
The USN is desperate not to sell SSNs to Australia? Do you have proof of that? What does the US Government have to say? The plan currently by the Government here in Australia is to build all eight of the SSNs locally. (Actually they’ve said ‘at least eight’). But there were also suggestions by the former Def Min that Australia could potentially have access to two Virginia subs by 2030. The suggestion is not that there is ‘additional’ or ‘spare’ capacity in US shipyards, but rather that the USN gives up two production slots, and tacks those subs on later… Read more »
The decision by the Government here in Australia is due in six months time, eg, March 2023. The problem for the Government here in Australia, is which design to choose, there are plus and minus with both. Astute is probably about the right size, and crew size, but the PWR2 reactor is out of production and reportedly the PWR3 is too big to fit, added to that is the UK boat doesn’t have the desired combat system or weapons too. On the other hand Virginia Blk IV is probably too large, and a large crew requirement too, but does have… Read more »
Love how you guys always say “world’s most advanced submarine” or something similar all the time. It is a top tier sub no doubt but is behind others from America and even Russia in certain aspects like weapons capacity, speed, ect.
Yes,as we’ve seen in the Black Sea and Ukraine, Russian weapons are cutting edge…. 😂🤣😂🤣
I think he is talking about their power point weapons which are very impressive 😀
Well almost every year they show off scale models of new aircraft carriers and destroyers… that they never actually get round to building… 😆
On most of it we’ll never know
Evidence please?
Or are you just assuming that if it’s not made in Murica, it can’t be the most advanced?
Well it is truth, UK is the only country that tags almost every own weapons system as the “worlds best” or “Europe best”
I see many other nations do the same there Yuri , the Ukraine war does not stop Russia’s boast even though it turns most of their equipment is shite like their armed forces .
Russia boasts they can destroy the world, basically doomsday talking.
Putin does it all the time. At the start of the invasion of Ukraine he was boasting about how his many fantasy missile systems are far ahead of anyone else. Reality has now bit hard and the world can see how good their weapons are. Shame for India and others that have bought these weapons. our american friends constantly mention how their systems are the worlds best. I personally think we need to do it more and ‘big-up’ our military as we are a nation of sceptics and ‘glass half full’ types.
Yes, I’d wish they’d not use language like that too. I thought the British thing was to always underplay it? And if it’s so bloody good how about increasing the numbers of them a wee tad!
It’s decades beyond the latest Russian subs. The Russian’s barley have pump jets that we had in the 80’s.
“Certain aspects” yes, no doubt.
And yet overall yes it probably is, especially in sensors and ASW tech.
Astute had the Americans taken aback, I assume at AUTEC, so this one will be better still as the class develops.
Hey, being an American you do realise America cannot and is not top trumps for absolutely everything?
What kind of fire power will be on this submarine and what is the range of such weapons?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Anson_(S124)
Let me preface my comment by saying I am by no means a naval expert but I love this forum and enjoy reading the opinions of those who are much, much more educated than I. That said, here’s my thought/question. If the defence budget were to increase and funds made available for another Astute boat, would it not make more sense to have 3 or 4 super quiet, modern diesel electric boats instead? I’m not sure their cost but assuming 4 electrics for 1 Astute (humour me), these would could be used for some taskings that would allow us to… Read more »
Hi David, I’m in the same lane as you, love it if money and resources are there, for 1 more Astute and 4 diesel subs for more coastal, regional patrols. Not all subs will available at the one time.
It’s more like 1 for 2 than 1 for 4 especially given the cost of a separate fleet. Given the mission sets of the RN, SSN’s are just much more useful. If I could get 1 to 4 I would take 4 SSk’s. at 1 to 2 I would take an SSN.
I couldn’t agree more with Quentin if I had said that myself. In my opinion in an ideal world we would have an 8th Astute and base it in Australia so they can train and help crew it. But it baffles me why we are just fixated with SSN’s, Australia ditched the French conventional subs as every scenario they face is in Deep Oceans and require endurance. However the U.K faces 2 combat scenarios and operating in the North Sea, Baltic or the Med isn’t the same. Big fish in a small pond comes to mind ! Modern AIP /… Read more »
For pure aesthetically reasons i like very much the edged design forms of RN submarines.
Makes them more menacing than motherly form of USN and other submarines…
Meanwhile USS Constellation starts being build.
Slightly off topic, could anyone explain why the publicity surrounding the propellor and driveshaft issues with the Prince of Wales have generated so much extreme criticism and comment in the press and social media particularly from BRITISH people, whilst virtually no one in America casts aspersions on any of the companies or organisations involved with the Artemis project and the launch delay due to engine problems? Phew-forgive long sentence! It would seem that a lot of people in the UK delight in maligning our Armed forces and equipment. Do people in France slag off the French Navy evey time the… Read more »
Yes, it’s a disease we have,sadly, always putting ourselves down.
Journalists and the usual suspects from the 5th columnist brigade desperate to see the UK fail are the main suspects in my view.
I try to ignore them.
Oh, and here he/she/ it is posting below, right on time!
Good Morning Daniele. Yes the 5th Brigade is very active in the comments column and most are so obviously Russian stooges.
10 degrees in Durban now as I sit at my desk top 5.40 SAST. Warms up nicely later though.
Cheers my friend
Geoff
I’ve just read some really poorly written and researched articles in main stream media with accompanying comments on how our subs will be crewed by US and Australian personnel. No doubt these headline will be shared on social media as sound bites, very sad.
That makes it one boat for each ocean/My,I feel a lot safer now!
🐒💩
A Moore may I suggest you comment on the Mail online rather than a serious site such as this. I would not know what to say about your comment nor I suspect would any of the other regulars on this site
Getting there with the Astutes, at last.
One billion’ish…not bad for an advanced piece of kit that can cause mayhem just by rumour alone. Imagine one less QE class gin palace and six more of these? Now that is bangs for bucks 😆 ( Puts on Mk4 lid and awaits shit shower )
I’m sort of with you John, taking into account your views on carriers.😉 The SSM for me has always been the main Ace in our pack.
For me, they are 2 of the key pillars a blue water navy needs. Carriers and SSN, both for sea denial.
Supporting them are the other 2 pillars, amphibious capability and a well resourced RFA.
Escorts, MCM, all the rest secondary to support those 4.
Imagine chinning of Ajax and getting another Astute? Even better!
Excellent choice of ship name HMS Ajax. I couldn’t think of a better name for an “8th” Astute – wishful thinking on my part.
Howsit Klonkie. A depressing article recently suggesting that the SAAF’s Gripens may NEVER fly again due to lack of maintenance/spares! The ANC’s incompetence and lack of shame is beyond equal in the world today.
PS also Achilles and from my Ulster roots-Antrim! 🙂
Hiya Geoff a big thumbs up on both suggested name. In particular Achilles was crewed by Kiwis, so kinda appropriate for me. I did read about the SAAF Grippen woes , a sad state of affairs. Seems all the services are suffering given the continued backward investment in defence.
Achilles-Battle of the River Plate! Saw the movie twice and read the book. Epic stuff.
Cheers Klonkie
Maybe tag on another two or three?
As pointed out many times, I don’t think that is possible given the capacity at Barrow with regards to space and workforce, plus the fact they are building the Dreadnaughts now.
Hopefully the SNN (R) follow on increases from 7 to 8 or 9.
“Western World’s most advanced” shouldn’t it say? Awhile back there was a new Russian sub that took everyone by surprise…
Glad to see Australia involved, we need a couple of these to help defend us from the chinese threat, as soon as possible.
Welcome to the fleet. I do have one major concern that no-one seems to have noticed as yet, the follow on subs once the Astute’s have been built. With limited yard capability in Barrow and the building time frame of the Dreadnought class it looks like the first steel for a new SSN will not be possible until 2035. With a build time of about 10 years that is 2045 in the fleet. That means HMS Astute will be 35 years old however, her reactor has a fuel span of 25 years. What this means is that either we start… Read more »