It was claimed today that a Russian ship fired warning shots at HMS Defender off Crimea and a Russian jet has dropped bombs near the Type 45 Destroyer.

UPDATE ā€“ This article has been updated to include a denial from the British Ministry of Defence that this happened. You can read more about the denial here.

UK denies Russian ships fired warning shots at British ship

Russia had claimed that the vessel violated its borders however British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said in a statement that HMS Defender was carrying out a “routine transit” and entered an internationally recognised traffic corridor.

“As is routine, Russian vessels shadowed her passage and she was made aware of training exercises in her wider vicinity,” he said.

The Ministry of Defence also said that the Russians were carrying out a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided prior warning.

“No warning shots have been fired at HMS Defender. The Royal Navy ship is conducting innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters in accordance with international law.

We believe the Russians were undertaking a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided the maritime community with prior-warning of their activity.

No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognise the claim that bombs were dropped in her path.”

Local media claimed that according to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, today at 11:52 am HMS Defender crossed the Russian state border in the northwestern part of the Black Sea.

“He entered the territorial waters for three kilometers, in the area of ā€‹ā€‹Cape Fiolent.Ā Previously warned about the use of weapons in the event of a border violation, the British ship did not react to this.Ā At 12:06 and 12:08 a Russian border patrol ship fired warning shots.Ā At 12:19 pm, the Su-24M aircraft of the Black Sea Fleet performed preventive bombing, dropping 4 OFAB-250 bombs along the path of the destroyer. At 12:23 pm, the destroyer Defender left the borders of the territorial sea of ā€‹ā€‹the Russian Federation by joint actions of the Black Sea Fleet and the Border Service of the FSB of Russia.”

The event is being closely monitored by Liveuamap, a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to open source reporting.

The Russian Ministry of Defence had previously claimed that FSB Border Guard ships fired warning shots at the Royal Navy’s HMS Defender and Su-24M bombers dropped 4 OFAB-250 bombs in front of the destroyer after it “entered Russian territorial waters near Crimea”.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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129 COMMENTS

  1. Now, that is upping the ante; the Russians need putting back in their box.

    Next time paint the plane with Defender’s radar and see what happens next.

    • Errr… That’s how Sampson works…. It always paints the aircraft. There is no separate illumination tracker needed on a T45. The first thing you will know that you have been fired on is when your ESM Warner screams that a Viper homing head has locked on at around 3Km away.
      At that distance it’s time to fly by Martin Baker

      • Presumably Sampson will operate at different frequencies, power outputs and waveforms in peace time?

        • You never go onto wartime frequencies or operating perameters.
          Even in GW 1 & 2 we stayed on the standard frequencies and PRFs because the threat was not significant enough to justify going fully agile.
          HMS London did go fully agile on 967 for a very short time before the TG EW commander told them to cease and desist. They rapidly went back to the standard 3 frequencies . Numpties.

  3. Live ammo? I wonder how Russians will feel if the favour is returned next time they venture near Scotland

  4. Most probably Russiaā€™s petulant response to the recent signing of the U.K. and Ukraine naval agreement aboard HMS Defender.

  5. HMS Defender has shown great restraint and professionalism .
    I am sure if they had to defend themselves the Russians would be down one ship and one plane.

    • One British ship is 2,000+ miles from the UK. Russian shore-based missiles alone cover the entire Black Sea. These deployments have to remain peaceful since there is simply no “use of force option” for the UK in the Black Sea other than a very bad outcome.

      • Not sure thatā€™s true. Defender would have to high tail it back to the Bosporus before the Russianā€™s could scramble their Black Sea fleet which seems eminently doable

        • The Russians don’t need to “scramble” their fleet. The entire sea is covered by shore-based SSMs.There is no option for any hostile ship to enter the Black Sea as long as those systems are active. The thing about these Black Sea deployments is that they only work in peacetime.

      • She’s in company with HMNLS Eversen and USS Laboon I believe. Not alone.

        Another point of course is that Crimea’s waters, irrespective of whether Defender entered them or not, belong to Ukraine, not Russia.

        • Gareth wrote:

          Sheā€™s in company with HMNLS Eversen and USS Laboon I believe. Not alone

          Correct, here is a picture from the Daily Mail. The ship in the distance is the shadowing Russian ship:
          ļ»æ

        • Believe that is the internationally recognised position that these waters are not Russiaā€™s but Russia obviously disputed that . Remember they tried to keep ships out of the Black Sea to trade with Ukraine . Still seeking overlordship of the former USSR territories it seems .

      • There’s a CSG operating off Israel with 18 F35bs and tankers available from Cyprus plus the typhoons pretty sure defender is not alone. Also there are our NATO allies in Turkey who will no doubt be watching the peskey Russians.

      • It would be a costly engagement for both sides. Russia would likely have lost several border patrol ships and a warship or 2. Not to mention all 20 of the jets that were buzzing it if things went hot.
        Defender is a full sized warship. She is a capable platform. As to there is “no force option” for NATO in the black sea and Defender being 2000 miles from home. That is not entirely true. HMS QE and no doubt Charles De Gaulle alongside a USN Nimitz class were in Eastern Med. They could have deployed a large combat air patrol force over and around Defender if needed within a 1-2 hour period whilst NATO countries around the Black Sea would also be duty bound to offer military assistance under article 5. So Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria.
        Russia would rapidly find itself in a large regional conflict all because they wanted to take a shot at a NATO warship.
        Most unwise and unprofessional.
        Besides which those waters aren’t Russian. They are Ukranian and Russia has no right to claiming territory stolen under military occupation.

        • “A costly engagement”?? You are talking about confronting a nuclear-armed state that has total force dominance in that region. Total! Nothing of NATO’s currently forward deployed in the Black Sea is going to survive something like that. As for Queen Elizabeth and Charles de Gaulle, they might as well be on the moon for all the good they would do in the Black Sea. If one is actually talking about forces outside the theatre becoming engaged, then we are in a massive confrontation that is almost certainly uncontrollable. The panic in NATO, should that start to happen, would be massive. Most NATO states have absolutely no interest in that and would almost certainly and desperately try to pull back at any hint of that. I would not be surprised if UK ships deploying to the Black Sea have strict instructions, not only never to fire without direct sign off from No 10 but to keep weapon systems completely inert at all times. There is a lot of bluffing and pretending going on, but I would hope that the adults in the room know what one is potentially dealing with. If not, we are all in trouble.

          • okay ur over estimating the russian yea they got nukes. but worst they could do regionally is a slava class. and maybe some su30s or su 34s. nothing new. as for the nukes i am sure the russians aren’t stupid enough to go for an all out war.

          • Mutually assured destruction is why nukes aren’t in play, the RN can go wherever they please and will return whenever they want regardless of any Russian bluffing.

          • So I guess the same applies to the Russians then when they sail through the Irish Sea or park right off the Thames … if anyone can go anywhere they want and there are no consequences to anything then I guess none of us have to worry.

          • So why did you bring up nukes for a well planned and executed sailing through disputed waters designed to embarrass the Russians who illegally occupied part of a neighbouring country?

          • If the purpose is to “embarass” it’s a pretty silly objective and a waste of scarce resources because the Russians are not embarrassed. They don’t see the world the way the UK does when it comes to Crimea. One has to take the emotion out of international strategic analysis. Emotive policy making (“we will embarrass those bastards”) doesn’t get you anywhere and when it comes to confronting a nuclear power, it’s dangerous.

          • Obviously they were embarrassed or they wouldn’t have made up the dropping of bombs along their path story doing nothing is the last thing NATO should do with the continued Russian aggression in other parts of the Ukraine.

          • Well you could argue that by occupying the Crimea – and China the Spratleys – the Russians and Chinese already started this game, so should not be suprised when it comes back to bite them on the arse.

      • There is CSG21 close by with F-35s and TacTom cruise missiles and RAF Typhoons with Storm Shadow in Romania and Cyprus, RAF tankers and ISTAR in Cyprus and Kosovo. Also 32 NATO vessels assembling in Black Sea now for an exercise.

        • And what is waiting in the Southern Military District?

          What is actually the end game here? What is it that we would like Russia to actually do? Because it is never leaving Crimea and it will not tolerate either Ukraine or Georgia in NATO. So knowing that, what is the objective?

          • The end game is to re-establish NATO and the West’s red lines. There is an excellent Chatham House article on this. The purpose is to re-establish a rules-based international system, and prevent any more privateer annexations by autocratic regimes. The way to do that is to establish that Russia and China cannot continue to bully and annex the likes of Estonia, Ukraine, Georgia, Malaysia and the Phillipines with impunity.

          • Sure. But it’s not the autocratic regimes themselves that are the problem it is what they do and whether it impacts your vital interests. In that sense one should not conflate China and Russia. They are not the same and what they are doing is not the same. The last thing the West wants is to push the Russians and the Chinese together. Arguably, the Chinese are a very serious threat because of what they are doing in the South China Sea, and vis-a-vis Taiwan, which directly threatens Japan’s sea lines of communication.

            What the Russians have already done in Crimea is not in the same category. For one, it’s over. Crimea is not going back to Ukraine. Two, Crimea and the Black Sea are peripheral. So in my view, the policies to address what is happening there need to be different. Tilting at windmills is not going to solve anything.

          • Its precisely the autocratic regimes – who else governs these places? Secondly we know what autocracies do – history tells us – read Arendt on Totalitarianism. Western democracies need to defend their values – liberalism with a small ‘l’ (freedom – if you want another word for it). Thirdly Crimea is not over – Russia is threatening Ukraine all the time – look at the huge manouvres last month. Such ideas are rose-tinted nonsense at best, treasonous at worse. Russian territorial ambitions, like those of China, have to be challenged and curtailed.

          • You condemn autocratic regimes and then a few sentences later you label someone who disagrees with you as potentially “treasonous”. Is that not somewhat totalitarian? Lenin would certainly have said the same thing – “if you disagree, it’s treason!”

            Your approach to foreign policy downplays the national interest in favor of a values driven policy. But that suggests that everywhere values are threatened necessitates engagement. But it is simply impossible for a Europe that is internally divided (and it is massively divided) and doesn’t spend enough on defence to sustain such a strategy credibly.

        • Don’t believe anything on AIS that involves warships from any nation.
          Unless you are sailing right next to a vessel to confirm the info, an AIS report can be made to say and read anything you want it to.

        • wait hold up why does something like this exists!? oh ye let me let my enemies know exactly where i am and where i am heading and my speed and stuff. might as well give everyone my ip and bank account details while i am at it!

          • Your photo of the three vessels together is from last Friday. The reason you would broadcast is in peactime under Freedom of Navigation on an allegedly goodwill voyage to Georgia there is no reason to do anything else. In time of conflict or during an exercise switch off…same process as applies to military aircraft. People on this site quick to deem russians unprofessional when they switch off the transponders on their aircraft

    • I hope you realise it wasn’t just one plane, They had a dozen upwards buzzing Defender.

      If I was a betting man and it went hot the Royal Navy would be down 1 destroyer.

      • Yes I think if it went hot the RN would be down 1 ship, but more importantly NATO would be 3 ships down ($3bn), and Russia might also be perhaps 30 aircraft down ($3bn???). The rest of the subsequent war won’t go well for Russia.

  6. Having lived in Riga with a majority 56% Russian pop. for 7 years, I feel Russians respect one thing: force. They need a good kicking.

    Now, about the need for AshM on UK warships…

    • They already have them they are called Harpoon and are fitted to T23 & T45. Unless you meant to say ā€œnewā€ ashm on U.K. warships?

      šŸ“󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁓ó æ šŸ‡¬šŸ‡§

  7. Su-24 etc not a threat. A T45 can easily deal with junk like that, and went where it wanted when it wanted. No need to illuminate with Sampson radar (if on), if it is on the AAW screen, that’s it. Probably doing ELINT ‘trials’ though šŸ˜‰

    • Bad idea. Do you actually want WW3?

      Being above it and ignoring these actions is the greater, but harder thing to do. I assume Defender continued on her planned route.

      If they actually attacked that is a different story.

      • Look, there is no option to “shoot down” Russian aircraft that doesn’t result in the loss of HMS Defender.

        • Yes Roy, saw your post about shore ASM higher up. And I didn’t suggest shooting the aircraft down unless in self defence. If the aircraft had actually looked to get its bombs on target what’s the ship to do?

          If they fire the ASM from shore after Defender would try to shoot those down to.

          • I was actually responding to Andrew on the shoot down proposal. But I agree if it escalates to that point one has to defend oneself but the end result is unlikely to be a good one. That is why you avoid initiating. The Black Sea is Russian dominated. That is just the way it is. They have massive power in that region and that is not going to change. It would be the same if a Russian ship, instead of transitting the channel, actually sailed into the Irish Sea and transitted close or into to UK territorial waters.They are unlikely to do that because it’s not a winning hand for them. It’s the same thing for the UK off Crimea.

          • Yes I guessed and was a tad surprised.

            I’m with you on this one. All for FON, but don’t antagonize the bear outside it’s cave and expect it to end well, every time.

          • We have nothing like the Russian shore defence AShM batteries nor airborne AShMs either & what shipborne missile we have are very old spec obsolete ones. Barring ECM & decoys, a Russian warship would have excellent chances of shooting down anything we could launch at it, apart from submarine torpedoes, possibly-if one of our tiny number of subs were available.
            But better to protest diplomatically in peacetime so long as there’s no real risk. WW3 is highly overated!

          • The Black Sea is a Russian dominated sea because of Russian shore capabilities, a diverse surface fleet and its submarines. The air defence network is extensive and multi-layered. NATO submarines, belonging to non-Black Sea states, are not permitted to enter the Black Sea so a sub-surface capability there is not an option.

      • Fully agree Daniele, the best approach to this sort of action is to be cool calm and collective and typical British reaction. I’m sure if there was a real danger to life & limb, the Royal Navy would meet the challenge with ease.
        Cheers
        George

  10. As we don’t recognise the occupation of the Ukraine’s Crimea these waters are contested.Seems to me the use of weapons, even as a warning is a severe escalation on the part of the Russian Navy. Seems to me that NATO needs to urgently review our strategy in these waters. Sending a single ship puts it very much in harms way. Other options include sending a task group, sending drones or sending nobody at all whilst vigorously contesting the occupation through diplomatic means. We do need to ask ourselves is this worth a shooting war?

    • …exactly. No point in situations like this if only sending a single ship. It needs back-up, so the Roooskies know that something else even bigger will come along if they kick off. Maybe re-tasking of carrier group may be needed….gulp!

      • The Montreux Convention prevents military vessels larger than 15,000 tons from transiting the Bosporus so aircraft carriers wouldn’t be able to enter the Black Sea without contravening international convention.
        In the event of a shooting war NATO might perhaps consider breaking the convention, but even then I’m not so sure we’d want to risk a CSG in the relatively confined waters?

        • ….i know it’s hard to get nuance in text, but I did have my tongue-in-cheek with my comment Chris.

          Seriously, anything like that would require assets to stand-off in the Med, as that whole Bleack Sea area is a geographic turkey-shoot for the Roooskies if we put those sorts of assets in there undefended.

        • Plenty of nearby allied air & naval bases to support any task gorup in the Black sea, so CSGs in the Black sea are innecessary.

        • There are F-35s on CSG21, Artful with TacTom, Typhoons in Romania and Cyprus with Storm Shadow, Reapers in Kosovo, Voyager and ISTAR in Cyprus and most importantly 32 NATO warships forming up under the US 6th Fleet in the Black Sea for an exercise right now – including a US Amphib Group. US and NATO forces in Romania are formidible (including B52s with cruise missiles) and protected by a USAF ABM system. Putin would have a big problem and most likely loose his Black Sea fleet if he started a shooting war.

      • That’s exactly what our CSG is to be doing in the SCS. All need cool heads & hope the PRC high command don’t believe their own properganda.

        • Yes hope heads keep very cool all around.

          I never believe MoD propaganda either. Though I can see why they are trying to down-play it.

    • LOL… I m just passed that line in the sand… Anyway I do more good out here fixing and repairing them than manning them

      • I’ve tried being in the mob and I’ve tried being a civvy, I know which one I prefer and it doesn’t involve a ‘blue suit’. Or fighting the goddamn commies. ļ»æ šŸ˜‰ ļ»æ

        • Not sure that the only commie country of note isn’t Vietnam, pretty much a friend – tradgicomic though that seems through the lens of time. All the others are, and in effect were, either dictatorships (in it’s worst definition) or oligarchies. The some who are more equal than others.

          • Um, thanks for the lesson mate, not sure its needed by any or many on here. Calling the Russians “commies” is like saying the UK is a democracy while we have an unelected (and hereditary) Head of State and getting governments with large majorities on 40 odd percent of the vote.

            You may have noticed that none of it was particularly serious. Maybe not.

          • Not a lesson, AP. Most on here is just chat, as you indicate. And I was rude how?! Exclamation to show still not serious.
            Regards

  12. Ops Room will be a tad busy, EW’s blowing whistles and shouting out threat bearings etc… (if they still do that), wonder if they are just in defence watches or closed up for action, good luck to them though, hope it doesn’t get too much more serious for anyone.

  13. There is that. They could have routed further west when headed South from Odessa.
    Whether in international waters or not. The Russians are like a springed coil, why antagonize?

    • Be it in the Black Sea or the SCS you have a right under international law to undertake FON.
      The RN was doing that
      Even the Chinese have not been daft enough to do something this extreme in the SCS.

      • The Chinese have bombed the streamers of commercial seismic vessels operating in contested waters under licence from legitimate custodians. Last incident I was aware of was in area disputed with Vietnam. Think it was a French vessel…but could be wrong on that.

      • Of course we can. There is also common sense GB.

        Will we sail as close again I wonder? At what point do people die? Who backs down first? Do we test Putin to drop for real next time?

        So I have the right to swim in the sea, despite a great white shark living in it. Doesnt mean I will.

        I can walk right up to the cave of a bear, who is sleeping inside. Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do just because I’m allowed.

        Russia could be seen as a monster. If you tip toe by while its asleep it might lift one eyelid and sniff at you. But if you awaken it……

        Hope people remember this incident the next time the Bears and Blackjacks are in international airspace within the UKADR and posters are jumping up and down at those petulant russkies.

        There is no difference other than we are professional and don’t rise to the bait, the bait being HMS Defender a few miles off a states border with someone like Putin at the helm.

        How do you see this progressing? Is there any precedent?

        • You go again.
          If you back down once that’s it you lose all credability and will never ever get it back.
          You stick to the UN law of the sea and undertake the transit under FON.

          As it is its now being reported as a GUNEX 3 miles away and the Russians are putting out disinformation.

          • Yes, I’d read the new posts.

            Backing down, yes it’s a fair point. I agree i don’t want Putin emboldened by apparent weakness but at the same time I’m really not surprised of this sort of incident given the nature of the beast.

            IMO there is FON, sailing to Romania, sailing to Georgia, visiting Odessa, and then there is pushing it considering how touchy they are about Crimea especially.

            So looks like we won this round. šŸ˜Š

            Glad it’s not HMS Echo, or was it Enterprise last time.

  15. If this incident has actually occurred it will be interesting how it plays out at NATO and EU levels (not that I expect much support from either). Its certainly an escalation and the best the T45 can do is ignore it as best as able. The air threat is a concern but given the T45’s spartan ASW capability (ok I know Merlin is good – but it can’t be up 24/7) I’m more worried about sub-surface threats. Anyway lets hope that’s as far as it goes.

  18. Not quite. UK MOD are saying it was a routine Russian gunnery exercise in international waters whilst the Russian’s are saying they were warning shots in Russian waters. So there were shots just the interpretation from the two sides is very different. Anyway it seems Defender is returning to the same location just to make the point.

  19. The MOD has released a press statement saying no warning shots or bombs where dropped in the vicinity of HMS Defender. A live fire gunnery exercise was taking place in the Black Sea, and the RN had been notified from the Russians.

  20. CAM BBC seem to be quoting defence secretary who is coming out with a different story suggesting no warning shots just a navel exercise going on nearby.

    I’m having difficulty understanding why the Government would want to underplay this.

      • A comment talking about patrolling with a shotgun breaches our comment moderation policy.

        • If you see anything that goes against our comment policy, we would encourage you to flag it. Like you say, there are a lot of comments, and we’re doing this in our spare time. The comment you were replying to went against our policy and was flagged, so we removed it.

        • Cam was flagged yesterday for calling “Palestine” a terrorist organization but it is still up. I mean, if that is not going to be removed George I don’t know what is.

          • Hi, this has now been looked into. A comment has to be flagged several times for it to be brought to our attention. Please feel free to e-mail me if you feel like comments in breach of our policy haven’t been dealt with appropriately in future. Thanks!

          • To be brutally honest the West Bank is controlled by Hamas. This organization has been officially branded a terrorist organization by the UN. In Gaza there is a joint ā€œunityā€ run government which is formed by Hamas and what was the PLO. So Camā€™s comment is valid.

        • You said you still hadn’t received an answer, so I was trying to help as from your posts it’s clear you’re unhappy about this.
          I don’t understand why you would bring it up if you don’t want to try and resolve the issue? We’re always willing to help if needed. Feel free to e-mail us with any issues or concerns in future.

  22. Of course they have, new information came to light. Why wouldn’t we change it to reflect that? If you have any concerns about this I’d encourage you to e-mail George.

    • Sorry, I’m not too sure how this relates to comment moderation. If you have any issues with the content of the articles, please get in touch with our editor. Thank you.

    • Well I can see that mate…… I guess you don’t value posters with 3000 contributions over the years one little bit……… Christ mate, If you’re going to play big brother then just get on with it…… or, you could just ask me to help out ļ»æ šŸ˜„ ļ»æ

    • Iā€™d like the T45s to be missile muscled up. If put some CAMM silos down both sides of the Aster silo it could make it even easier to handle a really big and intense swarm mix of threats in an environment like this and some canister ASMs would complement the main gun.

      • I’ve wondered why the space in between the two rows of SYLVER can’t be used for CAMM. There’s probably enough room for sixteen cells and the French and Italians have theirs packed close together so it can be done. If ever the Mk41 was added That would be one hell of a load.

  25. Mostly bluster for Russian domestic audience. Thankfully the stand off was much less dramatic posturing. Disinformation is well weaponised by the Russians & PRC.
    Glad both RN & Russians all safe. Russian & PRC neo-colonialism is alive & well, hence the need to assert international legality.

    While if this went “hot” & unrestrained(just theoretically here) Defender could eliminate many aircraft, she’d probably be overwhelmed by air & missile attack or torpedoed by submarine.

    • She could be clearly defensive with regard to weapons during an innocent transit so that aggression, accidental or otherwise, comes from the dancing partners. We have Typhoon in Romania, last I heard, and maybe other assets if needed. But they won’t be.
      Regards

  26. The sky over the Highlands is busy this afternoon, by busy mean fast jets.

    On Tuesday a Typoon passed very low over Rogart, low enough to see the pilot if my eyes could keep up. Given that whoever was flying was doing some fancy turns it may well have been a show for the Icelandic chap, or at least on his was back.

  27. Another piece of willy waving false propaganda by the Russians. I’m sure they made a fuss and will continue to do so, but there is a line and they know not to cross it. To deliberately strike Defender would be to commit an act of war against NATO…..

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