The UK will enhance Poland’s military capability, following the signing of two major defence equipment agreements.
The UK Government have confirmed the following key points.
- Defence Ministers sign agreement to work closely on Air Defence Complex Weapons
- UK confirms long-term support for Poland’s rapid air defence modernisation programme following the first delivery of Narew
- Nations agreed to collaborate on Poland’s procurement of three Arrowhead-140 frigates
According to a statement:
“At the Zamość Military Base in Poland today, UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace and Poland’s Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of National Defence Mariusz Błaszczak signed an Air Defence Complex Weapons Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).
This enables the UK and Poland to cooperate in the development and manufacture of current and future complex weapons, further strengthening the relationship built through the Defence and Security Cooperation Treaty (2017) and deepening the interoperability of our Armed Forces.”
The Ministers also signed the Arrowhead-140 Statement of Intent which provides a framework for the UK Government and The Government of Poland to collaborate on the procurement and operation of three Arrowhead-140 frigates. The Polish Frigates will be a variant of the Arrowhead-140, known in UK service as the Type 31 Frigate.
Rosyth-based shipbuilding firm secures design contract with Poland
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace was quoted as saying:
“I’m delighted to be in Zamosc today with my friend and close defence partner Marius Balszczak. We have had a close defence alliance with Poland for over 150 years and as we face the threat from Russia, we need the equipment and the capabilities to safeguard our people and preserve European stability. Our new agreements demonstrate that commitment and the UK’s support for Poland’s defence modernisation plans.”
You can read more here.
I wonder if the new long range CAMM missile will be deployed from the T31 and T26.
It might to reassuring to know, if push came to shove, how much kit could be successfully incorporated onto these platforms & what combinations might be possible.Probably wouldn’t hurt the sales opportunities either.
I suppose much will depend on the size and what can be cold gas ejected on a warship although Mk41 VLS may open up options for it to be hot launched if it’s a much larger missile.
You don’t need a “long-Range” SAM on an ASW frigate. Look if things kick off, then aside from carrier and littoral groups there would hunter killer groups of AAW, ASuW & ASW. The former, our 45s, the latter our 26s & Astute’s. CAMM is fine, its range is certainly more than 25km. Remember the west especially, MBDA quote the MIN kill range. The CCP’s bureaus quote the MAX paper kill range. So did the CCP & even now PutinVille.
FIRES support needs longer range?
The point I made last week to general scepticism about an extended range CAMM with a programmable warhead.
It sounds like Poland is the peacetime market to be outside of the usual French, the UK, German and the US, with the purchasing of new vehicles for land forces, fighters, and ships.
Hmmm… beginning to wonder whether this may become the true initiation of a Global Britain.’ Many bantam to middle-weight countries, sensing shift from uni-polar to multi-polar geopolitical environment, may be interested in closer cooperation w/ UK in the development of naval and aerospace systems. Poland could prove the prototype for similar arrangements w/ multiple eastern European countries, motivated by a war on their border, to circumvent EU bureaucracy and regulations. Bonafides established, especially if T-26 and Tempest prove to be successful programs. Could envision pattern replicated selectively in ME, Indo-Pacific and SA. Free trade agreements to follow in due course, almost as though preplanned. Defense procurement diplomacy; who’d a thunk of that in the 21st century? Blokes down at the Foreign Office and MoD earning their pay packets?!? Huh…
Or maybe they just looked across the Channel to see how the French have been doing it for years. Now we are willing to provide IP in ways we wouldn’t before and oops all those closed doors start to open. Not sure that such IP transfer would be appropriate for some of those you mention mind, with Poland you can get a lot back in exchange and you have a higher level of trust.
CAMM is more than fine for anti Orc actions. Just as NLAWS Is fine for tank disposal….
it will shoot down all the Russian junk and I am sure the Ukrainians will have, made sure we and the Poles can test CAMM against S300/400 which is the best that they have anyway.
I can’t bring myself to describe them as Russians……
CAMM is fine for an OPV, corvette or light frigate. Way better range than than RAM. There is a huge gap though between CAMM & the likes of Aster 30 & SM2 type missiles. CAMM-ER & ESSM are two obvious candidates & still can be quad packed in VLS like mk41 & SYLVER or closer packed singles. If you are limited on your load out, ESSM or CAMM-ER gives you the range to keep aircraft armed with smaller shorter ranged missiles away. Big long range ASHM, requires big aircraft &/or small load out. It’s a case of trying to take out the arrow or the shooter. When it comes to supersonic or hypersonic ASHM, range give you time for a second or third try when trying for the arrow. A shooter that you can’t hit, if they have the magazine depth, will eventually bleed you dry.
Poland has always been a friend of the uk. The uk could benefit in getting in on the Korean/polish tank, artillery that will be developed among other projects.
If America goes all raptor in regards to exports of 6th gen aircraft that may well work out well for the tempest program also.
Believe F/A XX and NGAD will become available for purchase by Tier 1 allies. Will be very interested to learn whether B-21 is promoted to RAF. After recovering from the coronary inducing pricetag ($500+M/copy), RAF may contemplate purchase of a few. Would have to develop very long range delivery systems; can’t envision any Air Marshall allowing flight beyond the pattern of RAF (fill in the blank).😁 But by comparison, price of everything else will seem trivial (e.g., D-83, SSNR, Tempest, etc.); place orders by the Gross–volune discounts offered! 🤣😂😁
…volume…🙄
Tempest at this point is a very fervent wish…
Who’d even a THOUGHT of that Former USAF? Love the colourful variations of the English language that come out of the US of A! 🙂
Also consider Biden and his interference in our domestic politics re NI. Many are frankly sick of being an American poodle. Buying American gear, as with the F35 always comes with restrictions. UK Inc is actually a pretty good innovator. Partnership with other like minded countries is a good idea, Poland for one, Japan and South Korea, even India spring to mind. Not anti American, just anti American military complex. These other albeit smaller countries also have infrastructure, coal, steel, shipbuilding and aircraft production etc. Some of the hardware S Korea is producing is showing amazing performance. The old relationships in a new world are altering. I for one think it is a good thing.
We are already working significantly with Japan, and I’d certainly be wanting to work with India on EM carrier catapults. We have some experience, and India would otherwise have to go down the billion dollar US route.
From experience, the beurocracy surrounding trying to do anything with India is a nightmare- leave them to the French.
Japan, S Korea, Poland, Ukraine (surprised no one has mentioned them- we’ve got all kinds of defence-related MoUs with them!), Sweden, the Baltics, Australia, USA. That’s where we want to be looking for partners in my opinion.
I mention USA from the perspective of nuclear cooperation- submarine propulsion and ICBMs. Most other things would be a case of us buying their stuff and saying thank you, which I’d rather avoid where it’s possible to build domestically and export.
I would also give India a wide berth. Perhaps a few specific projects or selling developed items but it always seems a big drama dealing with them.
Well America is the main contributor to the nato etc. America also put work into achieving peace in Northern Ireland and as the world’s nominated policemen have an interest in keeping it that way. I’m more than happy for america to lead as the alternatives are China/Russia. EU is the only block that can hold any real power to America and they don’t really use it much.
I don’t see a British B21 as great as that would be. It would have to be a minimum of 12 bought and I just can’t see the funds as good as it would be to see.
If nimrod had worked out and the 21 had been bought it would of been the uk bomb truck. F35/typhoon/tempest to kick the door in and nimrod launching numerous cruise missiles and providing overwatch. Now we have the reaper drones etc to do the loitering.
Really sad about the constant bigotry you show towards the United States. There are other available options please go do I’m sure it will work out great. Or just develop your own kit as they say. Not anti-American my ass. Where does your nuclear submarines and nuclear deterrent come from. Just remember where your bread is buttered.
Well, that was a little rant wasn’t it? Not bigotry at all. Just sick of the American military complex and its bought politicians. Last time I looked we built our own submarines. And thank you for telling me to remember “where my bread is buttered”. That made me spit out my tea 😂
Put your handbag down darling your high pitched voice is starting to squeak!
Just remember where your wins come from! It’s certainly not happened since the mid 19th century whenever you have gone alone
Hey I don’t think you inserted enough meaningless buzz words into your essay. Not having a go by the way, just trying to help you reach peak Brexit means Brexit glory.
Sorry, perhaps did not insert an adequate quota of jargon/meaningless buzzwords, will try harder in the future. 😁 From this side of the Pond difficult to understand context of “peak Brexit means Brexit glory.” Please explain at your convenience. BTW, intrigued to learn someone reads these posts six months later, let alone taking the time to post a comment! 🤔😳👍
I think Poland have played a magnificent role in re: this Russia/Ukraine conflict. Poland taken in large number of refugees, supplied Ukraine with a lot of military equipment while also acting as a critically important hub for the international communities assistance effort.
And importantly in this discussion Poland has seen just how good some U.K. kit (NLAW for example) actually is under real conditions.
There will be a clear upswing in U.K. kit sales to Eastern Europe over the next few years as lessons from Ukraine are learned/studied.
And good value.
A £15k missile is something you can have a decent stockpile of.
£100-200k Javelin not so much.
Agree NLAW does offer a very cheap tank and armoured vehicle didposal method.
Mind you Russian T64/72 series vehicles are 2 a penny and generally of junk value. Most have been stired outside or in huge wharehouses. Not climate controlled and therefore have deteriorated remarkably since last dusted off. RUSI estimated of the 20,000+ t64/72/80/90s only perhaps 6-8000 could be made serviceable.
Ukraine has disposed of a large number of those already or captured a decent number too.
Yeah the 300 m r range is not exactly game changing.
Oh dear oh dear, wrong, 20m-800m so very effective for what it was designed for, killing tanks in close country, and seems to be doing very well in the hands of the Ukrainians.
Maybe this is a little bit of fantasy thought but do you think that even some of the newer new equipment might actually find its way into Ukraine? Poland is becoming quite a power house with all its purchases. I guess it does have a very big and ugly “neigh-bear” (pun intended) to contend with!
The bear still has teeth for sure but I think the big, ugly bear has now gone senile.
Honestly I hope we never know. Wait for future defence programmes. They’ll tell us all what has overperformed and what has underperformed in Ukraine. The best thing the Russians have given the world is live meat targets.
Poland, on the ball, understand the current threat from Russia, and willing to retrain and re-equip its military. Poland is now the tip of the NATO spear and will only get better!
Luckily Poland had its economy in a good place that it had spare money it could invest in defence. It is the very tip of the spear if Russia had achieved its goals in Ukraine in February.
Why in the name of God does Poland need three frigates? Of all their military needs and Lord knows they are addressing the vast majority of them very well. That would seem to be is low on the list as possible.
Well they are a Baltic Sea nation, slap bang next to russia navel assets. With lots of shipping lanes to protect. The type 31 is a pretty good enclosed waters combatant. It’s modest so not wasteful but has the size and range to also allows Poland to participate internationally in things like med and golf deployments to develop its international footprint. It’s also got the space to do useful things like deploying a a platoon of troops ect, cart around an ASW rotor.
A high end escort would have been wasted money for a Baltic brown navy, as your not really wanting a tail so much for that inshore ASW work and your not needing a high end AAW when your under your own air umbrella. But a cheap 5000ton frigate that does a bit of everything, that’s golden.
Yes they will want, indeed need to contribute to bottling up the Baltic fleet and with Russian efforts to endanger cables and pipelines they will have with other states in the region plenty of protective work to carry out. I suspect their version will be potent ships and it’s neighbours will be grateful for their presence. People forget that Kallingrad is next door and in a Russian attack out of there in the Baltic States sea lanes will be critical.
Yes I’m well aware of the geography of the Baltic sea A frigate is not what you want there at all. Because there is already about a Jillian small vessels from allied Navy’s there. It really serves no purpose. The Russian ships in the Baltic can do nothing other than die if things get serious. You can bottle up the Baltic with damn near anything. And that has been proven for decades. there are a million other ways to close the Baltic to any sort of Russian vessel.. this seems like just a make work project for the UK. Hopefully there is some sort of reach around for the poles.
..but surely if that is what the Poles(the customer) wants, and I am sure they have given it some considerable thought, then…?
It will have 32 Mk41 VLS that can take anything from quad CAMM to Tomahawks and SM-6. In the days of omni-networking to come, it won’t always need to use its ship’s radar to target to distance; Poland’s F-35s, or any Allied plane, will be able to provide the information. I can think of some good uses for a self-protecting mobile missile platform.
I would add that it allows Poland to add more to the Naval power of NATO. Nothing can realistically move out of the Baltic without the say so of Denmark, Sweden & Norway, if push comes to shove. An A140 armed to somewhere near Denmark’s IH frigate is a worldwide capable escort. They are only buying 3. It’s Poland’s attempt to avoid being outflanked via the North Sea. If they can’t go round you, they have to go through you.
👍👍
Yes Danish design. US.
Weapons. US VLS. Built in Poland.. using sensors from the US f-35 for rule Britannia I guess. I understand that this is a UK fan site. But good Lord….
Tell me you have a massive chip on your shoulder without having a massive chip on your shoulder.
The two bangs in his life, first his missus got banged by a Brit Squaddie, then he got banged out for complaining about it!
DH…..Esteban, have you a backpack?Fill it up,put it on,and off you go.There’s a good chap!🧐
Yes, but Poles may very well become both capable and even more importantly, willing, of contributing forces to increased NATO patrols in the Atlantic. As a general rule, advisable not to denigrate the best efforts of allies– don’t believe any country suffers from an overabundance!
…to contribute. .🙄
Poles? Poles are what are stuck in the ground, don’t you mean the Polish? Oh dear you need to stop using lazy slang for a nation and it’s people, little bit derogatory and offensive! You should understand that as you harp on quite often about bigotry etc!
Nevertheless, it will have a Captas variable depth as well as a hull-mounted sonar, and will be capable of carrying and launching MU-90 torpedoes. With a helicopter in the hangar, it sounds like they won’t be skimping that much on ASW.
The level of equipment fitout makes them all very useful. Let hope the RNs own T26/31/32s all get fully utilised or even better, buy some of these A140s.. Lol 😁
The Polish Navy that has been operating frigates for literally decades and that are all now 40 years old? Yes I CAN’T imagine why the Polish Navy would need to replace them.
Yep. Those Perry frigates are getting a bit long in the tooth. Esteban seems to be suggesting they ditch the current navy frigates.
I will assume the poles know what works for them and I’m happy to see them get new ships. Would love to know the final build price.
Same, while I wouldn’t be surprised if they can get built cheaper in Gdansk (although given the relative Polish and British economies how long will that be true for?), a lot of the stuff going into them, MAN engines, Mk41 etc will still have to be bought from the same suppliers.
I feel like Esteban has some sort of chip on their shoulder though, not sure why.
Token gesture. They have a coastline and EEZ to defend and need to be able to offer resistance to Russia and contribute towards NATO in the Baltic. Id say 3 frigates is a minimum but needed gesture.
Zamość is a lovely town. Spent a little time there at a wedding. Has a very interesting fort for artillery defence and the starówka, the old town and market Square are pretty and a great place to sit back and enjoy a good beer.
Just a quick note to George. The type 31 at the moment is complete vaporware. It’s not in UK service at all. It does not exist. I’m sure it will be a fabulous game-changing vessel in the future but at this point in time it does not exist.
If I can be a wee bit flippant, the first one is being built so maybe we can call it a T0.31 or T0.031? Aren’t they all scheduled to be in the water in 2028? Pity we can’t fast forward.
Maybe a Polish yard would be quicker. Might even be worth us buying from them 😉
True but construction of HMS Venturer is well underway.
Ah yes, a ship currently under construction is “complete vaporware” lol
Does anyone know the cost of the Polish variant of the T31 compared to the UK version.
In a few years anything that is not NATO in the Baltic will have a very eventful but very short life. Same as the Med it is almost a NATO lake.
Slight difference in that Turkey can close off the Black Sea, UK, Spain & Egypt can close off the rest of the Mediterranean (& if Egypt is uncooperative, the Red Sea by UK/USA/France). The problem for the Baltic is that Denmark/Norway/ Sweden can close off the Baltic, but can’t keep Russia out because they are already on the inside. They can of course stop Russia leaving,
Wages in Poland may be less than in UK. But the high end stuff is likely from the same supplier’s or comparative alternatives. The build is likely cheaper, but the hull of ship is just the start of the costs. Radars, VLS, missiles, guns, CMS, engines, decoy’s, torpedo’s, helicopter etc etc. Still, how much more would it have cost to go to a near Poland spec?
It won’t be in the same price bracket as a T26 /45 but would be north of £500 Million easily.
I beat the Poles arent getting their type 31s FFBNW type 41 vls? Or an anti ship missile fit or anti torpedo defensive aids. Or an anti submarine/ anti mine ability.
Nope they will be going all in on a heavily armed fullycapable frigate rather than a large cumbersome corvette with growth potentisl that the RN will never be alllowed to optimise due to a lack of funding.
OK I get that it is only an Artists impression but is the Polish version packing 16 NSM’s, 2 Quads forward and 2 aft ?
That means it will actually have some surface war fighting ability unlike ours FFBNW.
I think they went Swedish with RBS-15s rather than NSM. So even punchier, especially if they get the new Gungnirs.
An a Mk41.
But like I point out often with this sort of thing: These three frigates are the top end of the Polish Navy. While our 5 Arrowheads are pretty much the bottom end of ours. So you’d hope that theirs would be better armed.