In 2021, HMS Queen Elizabeth will deploy with two frigates, two destroyers, a nuclear submarine and support vessels.

Commodore Michael Utley, Commander United Kingdom Carrier Strike Group, is reported by Save The Royal Navy here as saying that HMS Queen Elizabeth will be escorted by two Type 45 destroyers, two Type 23 frigates, a nuclear submarine, a Tide-class tanker and RFA Fort Victoria.

The ship will also carry 24 F-35B jets, including US Marine Corps aircraft, in addition to a number of helicopters.

 

Prior to the deployment, it is understood that the Queen Elizabeth carrier strike group will go through a work-up trial off the west Hebrides range sometime in early 2021.

When asked about whether or not the UK has enough escorts to do this without impacting other commitment, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

“The size and the scale of the escort depends on the deployments and the task that the carrier is involved in. If it is a NATO tasking in the north Atlantic, for example, you would expect an international contribution to those types of taskings, in the same way as we sometimes escort the French carrier or American carriers to make up that.

It is definitely our intention, though, that the carrier strike group will be able to be a wholly UK sovereign deployable group. Now, it is probably not necessary to do that every single time we do it, depending on the tasking, but we want to do that and test doing it. Once we have done that, depending on the deployment, of course, we will cut our cloth as required.”

Air Marshal Knighton added:

“The escorts that go with the carrier will depend on the circumstances. The work-up for carrier strike group 21 will be with British ships, because we need to demonstrate and prove that we can do that, but we are already engaged with international partners to understand how we will integrate an Arleigh Burke destroyer from the US or a Dutch destroyer into that package.”

An MV-22 Osprey from HX-21 Air Test and Evaluation Squadron lands onboard HMS Queen Elizabeth.

Captain Jerry Kyd, former commander of HMS Queen Elizabeth, commented on the initial deployment and the gradual increase in air wing numbers:

“We are constrained by the F-35 buy rate even though that was accelerated in SDSR in 2015, so initial operating capability numbers in 2020 are going to be very modest indeed. We will flesh it out with helicopters, and a lot depends on how many USMC F-35s come on our first deployment in 2021. But by 2023, we are committed to 24 UK jets onboard, and after that it’s too far away to say.”

It is understood that the 2021 deployment will see the Carrier Strike Group sail in the Mediterranean Sea, the Gulf and end up in the Pacific.

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Daniele Mandelli
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Daniele Mandelli

Excellent news.

Have any regular commitments been shelved to meet the task?

Tim uk
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Tim uk

My comment on this was deleted My the Mod moderator!

Nigel Collins
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Nigel Collins

I’ve posted on here with two replys, all of which seem to have disappeared??

JohnG
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I go through phases of tracking our ship deployments, I haven’t followed them much recently but I have a rough idea of what they will do. Firstly, going ahead a bit, if we manage 6 type 31s or 5 but with one forward based, this will roughly give us 2 31, 2 26 and 2 45 deployed at any one time. As well as that, we will have two extra 26s, I imagine one aligned to each carrier. So if a QE+26 tag on to a 45 you still have your 6 deployments (plus extra from albion class, bay class… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
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Daniele Mandelli

Nice analysis John.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

I have no issue with a 2 tier navy myself.

Others do it. I see no other realistic way to increase hull numbers and prioritise our Tier 1 assets to the carriers.

Pacman27
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Pacman27

T31 is a pretty impressive Tier 2 asset. From my point of view T26/T45 will merge into a single hull (we should do it now and get it over with – by upgrading the radar with Sampson or its replacement) and T31 will be unarmed at some point to similar levels as the Huitfeldt class it is based upon. Maybe wishful thinking, but T26 is a massive step up from T23 and the T31 is comparable but different in that it can deploy UV’s. The real key to T31 will be in how many VLS it has. We all know… Read more »

andy reeves
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andy reeves

for all the ongoing talk of the frigates, its the fact that the R.N is desperately short of destroyers, maybe the t26 ships could be re designated as destroyers.

Meirion X
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Meirion X

The T26s, are specialist anti-submarine frigates, not destroyers.

andy reeves
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andy reeves

then why only asw weaponry in the hangar for on the chopper the omission of a torpedo system for me leaves a questionable gap in its ability to perform its primary task.

Cam
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Cam

Th mk41 silos can carry anti submarine missiles

Meirion X
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Meirion X

Destoryers of the future will need to be bigger, in order to store and generate energy for future Maga watt lasers, and radars.
An AAW destoryer will require more lasers then a ASW frigate, so size of the T26 is about right.

Also it is highly unlikely that 4 T26s will be available at any one time.

andy reeves
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andy reeves

if we had enough we wouldn’t need two tiers

whlgrubber
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whlgrubber

its not just ships, its men.(sorry crew) there are ships available but laid up,
and if we retain the 23s for a couple of years it comes down to a government/treasury descision to allow recruitment and then rebuild the fleet. I think the present governent are for an enhanced navy. Hears hoping

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Totally agree. I’ve said before there should be an uplift in people first.

Andy P
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Andy P

Doing better to retain the people they have would help, its cheaper too.

andy reeves
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andy reeves

when i left the service in 1984, i was not once asked by the navy in any way’why are you going? if people were asked the government would be able to identify the issues and do something about it. one bone of contention to me was the appalling condition of the married quarters estates, which, look like depressing leftovers from early 1970’s inner city housing projects, the service men and women are treated like second class citizens and its a disgrace.

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

I put my chit in which would have taken me up to the 12 years. Went through the whole process before sucking it back within a month of going on terminal leave. Anyhoo…. I’d written up a pros and cons list and rejigged it into a letter format, I put it ‘out there’ that I’d done it and nobody was interested. The process at the time was a chat with a Divisional officer who wasn’t your boss just to make sure you weren’t getting bullied, I was gutted to get the MEO who was one of the nicest guys on… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

send the press out and drag the north london hoodies off the streets!

Julian
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Julian

Very true. That really needs to be fixed.

There’s a Save the Royal Navy piece on availability (https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/minister-tells-head-of-the-royal-navy-to-make-increasing-warship-availability-a-priority/) that mentions HMS Daring laid up for lack of crew. There is talk here regretting the fact that we cut the T45 build from 8 to 6 (and the original plan was 12 of course) but if we had 8 and still had the personnel issues we have now we would have 3 T45 laid up for lack of crew rather than 1!

David Flandry
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David Flandry

“They” ought to reconfigure 2 Type 26 frigates as air defense types.

Julian
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Julian

Or swing role? Given we have 8 TAS then is there any need to take those off? Air Defence would need better radar on the 2 of 8 you suggest plus all the different back end systems but would it be a “reconfigure” (as in no longer be configured for ASW role) or adding an additional AAW capability?

Meirion X
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Meirion X

I agree Julian!

Cam
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Cam

No we wouldn’t, don’t forget the government got rid of 5,000 RN personnel since the type 45s were built.

Julian
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Julian

I’m not sure I understand your counter argument. If we accept the Save the Royal Navy assertion that a T45 is tied up for lack of crew it means we have 6 T45 but only enough crew for 5. Surely then if we had 8 T45 now we would still have the same number of personnel, i.e. crew for 5, so we would have 3 tied up? Maybe you are saying that if we had built 8 x T45 then the RN would have been less brutal in the personnel cuts and would have cut fewer than 5,000? Anyway, it’s… Read more »

andy reeves
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andy reeves

i’ve said this before, but when i left the R.N after 16 years in 1985, nobody ever said why are you going?, by not doing this, the main reasons are not highlighted, in order for them to do do anything about it. one area i am aware of is the deep unhappiness about the condition of the married quarters, they are mainly left to be maintained , by those in them. i wouldn’t be happy coming home after several months on deployment, to be met at the door by e’er indoors’ with a list of what needs doing around the… Read more »

Andy P
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Andy P

“tackle the age old myth that the grass is greener in civvy street. service people need telling in no uncertain terms that it is not a pot of gold with well paid jobs being given to ex servicemen and women, because they are just that.the M.O.D needs to give its head a wobble and rejoin reality and not stay mired with its head in the sand. ” Its what you make of it Andy R, I know plenty guys who have gone ‘outside’ and have done very well for themselves, JR’s and SR’s, For every hard luck story there’s a… Read more »

DJ
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DJ

It appears civvy street is not the only option – going on the number of ex RN people to be found in RAN & RCN.

Julian
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Julian

As I see it T31 as rumoured is not toothless and it really would not take that much to make it very credible. Replace the 24 x Sea Ceptor mushroom farm with a more densely packed 36 or 48 tube silo possibly using LM 3-cell ExLS. On a fleet of 6 with 2 in maintenance at any time maybe even Stanflex them so only needing 4 Stanflex modules. If the T26 midships silo was also Stanflex then even more economy of scale hence savings could be had from Stanflexing them perhaps meaning no incremental cost over and above these bl#*dy… Read more »

Pacman27
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Pacman27

Perfectly sensible Julian, The T31 is retaining its stanflex ability so perhaps we should talk to our danish colleagues and seek their input on how to stanflex our future ships VLS as a minimum. I also think we should upgrade the radar which is a relatively small sum of money in the scale of all this and make T26 the UK’s Arleigh Burke class, we can then order a further 6 to replace T45 and give BAES some stability, who knows they may even build a frigate factory. I would also then commit to 14 T31 and start investing in… Read more »

andy reeves
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andy reeves

i think a lot might hinge on the rate of production. i’d not be surprised to see the t 23 retirement rate increase, before a realistic order of say 8-10 type 31’s to be ordered and built allowing for a one for one replacement of t23’s with the t 26’s and 31’s

andy reeves
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andy reeves

ALL OF EM!! NOBODY ELSE TO DO EM! dam capslock again (sorry)

Callum
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Callum

Haven’t the Dutch already announced one of their frigates will be joining the QECSG on its first deployment?

While this is positive news, it’s only going to be possible if active ship numbers improve dramatically by then. Otherwise QE will be taking more than half the active fleet with her on what is largely a flag showing exercise and leaving 2-3 frigates to cover every other commitment.

Levi Goldsteinberg
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Levi Goldsteinberg

The answer is yes, the Dutch Navy have pledged to second two frigates to RN command for NATO duties and in CSG deployments if wanted

spyintheskyuk
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spyintheskyuk

Does that include one based in Scotland lol.

The Big Man
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The Big Man

There are non in Scotland.
Lol

Andy P
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Andy P

All sounds promising, start putting the ‘bits’ of a carrier group together, even if we’re not planning on sustaining it. Maybe after the 31’s start rolling out there might be another batch to build up the capability to at least make a carrier group easier to achieve.

Steven Greenall
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Steven Greenall

This is not really up to date news is it,there is nothing in that article that we don’t already know and has’nt been reported a dozens of times before

Levi Goldsteinberg
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Levi Goldsteinberg

It was confirmed in a defence select committee meeting yesterday which is why it is being reported today, even though it isn’t exactly new news

Matt
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Matt

I agree, but what’s not new for us might still be new for someone else. Especially those that are just starting to get an interest in defence.
With a spotlight on the carrier and F35 trials in the media, this is a great opportunity to keep it in the public eyes, get people excited about it and potentially help drive recruitment.
I for one am very happy to see those pictures and to have the news reaffirmed. Can’t wait for some video footage.
[email protected]

Steven Greenall
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Steven Greenall

Ta i missed that,thing is only the US has a large enough navy to carry out CSG operations independently and even they rely on allies,as the article says we have to work with the french and their navy is roughly the same size as ours ,so we are always going to have help from our allies, but so they should help us out, the germans have been getting away with spending as little as they can on defence and relying on others for far too long

Trevor
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Trevor

That’s not true. We are building up to a minimum of 24 F35s probably leading to 36. We are building up to regularly having a minimum 1 carrier available at all times.
The French are able to operate an air wing on their single carrier when it’s not being refurbished.
I fall to see why you complain about us having allies.

andy
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andy

seems good i just wish that hulls 7 and 8 for the type 45 were not scrapped,if we ever have to go it alone for any reason god forbid then we are rather short,especially if both carriers are deployed together

BB85
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BB85

Such a stupid decision in the end, pretty sure if we order the other 2 it would have been for a lot less than the average cost of 1bn. Mind you we would still have to cut them open to replace the generators. The UK got completely screwed over on that joint frigate program.

Ron5
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Ron5

The one billion Type 45 cost included the cost of research and development, primarily for the PAAMS missile system that had already been spent. Without that apportionment, Bae was building the Type 45’s for 650 million or thereabouts. Seems a bargain today.

Meirion X
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Meirion X

Why would you want to cut open a new build T45 with updated propulsion, and more generating capacity?

Paul T
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Paul T

BB85 -Surely if you were to build 2 Type 45’s today you would incorporate all the Engine upgrades whilst in build,id even go as far as swapping the WR21 GT’s for MT30’s.

The Artist Formerly known as Los Pollos chicken
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The Artist Formerly known as Los Pollos chicken

I thought hulls 7&8 were sacrificed to allow the money for them to be used for development of T26 to be accelerated so they would be built sooner ? So suppose you have to weigh up pros cons more T45 and longer wait for T26 or less T45 and T26 sooner .

Paul T
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Paul T

The Artist – needless to say that plan didn’t work out too well.

Steve Taylor
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Steve Taylor

I wish hulls 7 to 12 hadn’t been cancelled. And they had been the replacements for T42 that we need. Sea Viper is utterly fantastic; it is the best system afloat. The ship it is fitted into not so much.

Paul T
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Paul T

According to wiki Ship’s 7 and 8 were sacrificed for the FSC/GCS programme (what the T26/31 were called at the time )

Meirion X
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Meirion X

The proposal was at that time, to build all the 13 replacements for the Type 23 frigates, as All Type 26 specialist anti-submarine(ASW) frigates.
It it this Misguided decision that resulted in the cut in T45 numbers.

Meirion X
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Meirion X

The decision to procure All UK’s 16 Type 23 frigates at the time, as potential ASW frigates, was made in the midst of the Cold War.

JohnG
Guest

Agree 100% Andy. I understand those two ships were cut to fund the type 31s, though it’s all lies and politics, this especially comes to the fore now Hammond is showing his true colours regarding Brexit. I’m sure if there had been the political will they could have funded ships 7 and 8 and still got the 5 type 31s. I am reminded of what political will can do when Gavin Williamson was talking about the commando carriers, I appreciate the devil is in the detail,but what a fabulous concept and a sneaky way to give us a LPH similar… Read more »

Meirion X
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Meirion X

Not true, the decision to procure 5 Type 31 frigates was made in the 2015 SDSR. The number of Type 26 ASW frigates was cut from 13 to 8.

Levi Goldsteinberg
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Levi Goldsteinberg

Can’t understand the rationale for deploying to the SCS, while we should uphold FON around the world, it opens us up to some kind of humiliation the Chinese will have planned for the RN a la surfacing a submarine in the middle of the CSG as they did with USS Kitty Hawk. Bad PR for us and needlessly provocative. If I had the MoD’s ear, I’d propose a Falkland Islands and south Atlantic deployment as happened shortly before the invasion and deterred the Argentines for a good while. Given the inevitable rise of Peronism and all the sabre rattling that… Read more »

Callum
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Callum

The rationale is that it clearly demonstrates our commitment to upholding international law. If we refuse to actually back up those words with action, it sends a clear message to the word that we’re all mouth and no trousers. There is almost no point to sending half our fleet to the South Atlantic. Not only are the Falklands far beyond Argentina’s current capability to attack (the 4 Typhoons there represent more fast jet firepower than their entire air force), but it’s in Argentina’s constitution that they’re not going to fight another war for the islands. Until they amend their constitution… Read more »

spyintheskyuk
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spyintheskyuk

Indeed and lets be honest if a Chinese sub is able to surface in the middle of our fleet undetected (unlikely with an Astute around I might add) then far better we know they can do that in peace time than during any developing conflict. It might give us time to work out how.

Gavin Gordon
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Gavin Gordon

But that’s just the reason you would have to seriously consider the SCS. If you’re not happy to go there in peacetime, then where does that leave you during confrontation. These are, as you rightly say, FON sailings, although we will still be itching to test out the Chinese abilities against our own, sub-surface of otherwise. In time of tension, we can no doubt assume a far more sophisticated approach would be initiated. Regards

Trevor
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Trevor

Followed by the inevitable fall of Peronism. Nothing new in Argentina in them threatening to spend money they do not have.

The Woman From Delmonte
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The Woman From Delmonte

You have seen the appalling state of the Argentine armed forces? An airforce with no fast jets , a navy with well no real navy and an army with the very latest in 1970’s equipment. The anxiety levels of the islanders must be off the charts at the fear of invasion

David
Guest
David

The major threat to the Falklands is internal, not external. A very real risk that a Labour government, led by Corbyn, would simply hand them over to his beloved Argentina.

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

Agree Corbyn the unelectable muppet would give the keys of the kingdom away to whoever asked politely for them, “we have to engage in diplomacy”
Roll over

spyintheskyuk
Guest
spyintheskyuk

Not needlessly provocative? I would have said keeping a strong enough force there, good intelligence (unlike last time) and make sure we have the means to reinforce quickly would actually be far more effective and far less antagonising as you can bet any such action you suggest will only have demonstrators on the streets calling for action making it actually more likely they will try something than less. At least as and when they have rebuilt enough to do anything so any action will be years past any such ‘demonstration’ as it was last time we did it and then… Read more »

BB85
Guest
BB85

I don’t know what is so embarrassing about a Chinese sub surfacing in the middle of a carrier group in international waters during peace time. Even if the US carrier group knew it was there, which they probably did, they are not going to attack it are they? The UK sailing through the SCS will be well publicised and I’m sure there will be a host of Chinese ships to follow them on their way. If it was during an actual conflict their location is not going to be published and ships will be informed to stay 200 nautical miles… Read more »

BB85
Guest
BB85

As for the rational, as per Callum, you can’t just follow the command of the Chinese government and not sail in the SCS because they say it belongs to them. They have no legal authority to claim it therefore it needs to be challenged.

Ron5
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Ron5

SCS wasn’t mentioned.

whlgrubber
Guest
whlgrubber

dont know if the itinery has been announced but i suspect South Africa, india, Singapore/Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. All places where we can show off our ships. SCS does not give us anything except grief from the chinese. Go there in company with the US and Australia if we are trying to make a military point.

JohnG
Guest

Really good question Levi. The crux of the issue is around our China strategy. Basically, as far as I am aware, we don’t have one. I believe that government is aware of this fact now and I’m sure in the next few years one will be developed. Recently I read a government paper and the gist of it was, yes we don’t have a China strategy and yes we need one. I’ll give you the link if your interested. It’s fascinating the naive optimism surrounding the rise of China, the only way I can see us realistically countering them is… Read more »

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

I quite agree, a NATO for the Pacific!

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

The needlessly provocative action was for the PRC to seize atols in the highly disputed SCS, enlarge them, create military bases on them & start bullying anyone encoroaching on their illegally annexed territory.
The neglect & selling off of naval capabilities though the 1990s. 2,000s to the present only encouraged such actions.

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

There has already been fighting on a very limited scale between Vietnam and China over some atolls that were Vietnamese but were taken by China. This was mostly to do with fishing rights around the atolls. China has now rebuilt the atolls into highly defended bases, leaving Vietnam little options of gaining them back. They raised the issue with the UN and World courts but got nowhere. They have also made rumblings over a small chain of islands off the south of Japan. Japan has a dedicated militarised police force on these islands; complete with armed helicopters and coastguard ships… Read more »

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

Yes neo-colonialism is alive & well with the communist PRC leading the charge to bully & aquire it’s neighbours. This is exactly the wrong time to be keeping our navy pegged at its weakest for centuries. I thought the UN made a clear decision on the SCS but the PRC just ignored it. The PRC is a global superpower now. Plenty of ships fully equipped for modern warfare, plenty of supersonic/hypersonic anti-ship missiles, air cover etc to make it very difficult & costly for any one to stand up to them. We do indeed have a far to reliant trading… Read more »

WatcherZero
Guest
WatcherZero

Remember the new strategic/foreign policy doctrine is “return east of Suez” putting a carrier group in the Pacific and the new British fleet bases in the middle east.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

So the same rationale will have the Chinese humiliating the Australian Navy? Or are you saying that the Australians are intent on cowering before the Chinese?
Indeed, in your rationale the Australians might as well give up their navy.

Tim uk
Guest
Tim uk

So ince the carrier group potters off on some trip around the globe we will be pretty much defenceless as thta will leave us with 1 type 45 , 2 Astutes and 3-4 friagtes ( if we are lucky ) to carry out all other global duties.

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Tim uk – look at the situation a different way – how many other Countries would be able to Sail such an impressive Fleet around the world and still have (admittedly just) the capability to have a Duplicate Fleet in reserve ?.

Julian
Guest
Julian

If the price holds and T31 really does hit the water at the £250m-per-vessel price point then building out that fleet beyond the currently announced 5 would in my view be a cost-effective and acceptable way to add slack for those additional tasks. I would be very nervous if we started seeing T31 substituted for the core 2 x T45 + 2 x T23/T26 escorts (or allied equivalents) in a CBG because at 24 x Sea Ceptor plus guns I don’t think they are a capable substitute for any of the vessels in that core top-class AAW + ASW escort… Read more »

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

Julian agree definitely. BUT the type 31 hull is designed to easily be uparmed. This is a full sized frigate 5000+ tons, easily able to be fitted with 24 mk41 vl strike cells a 5 inch gun etc etc. I too would like the type 31 ordered in a continuous rolling programme, 5 ships, then another 5 ships, then another 5 ships until we get around 20. Never going to happen Or 10 type 31s and put the type 26 order back upto 10 + vessels, the cost per hull MUST have come down now that Canada and Australia are… Read more »

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Is this not the point of the naval construction strategy, ie keep building ships … and as and when we need to we sell on the surplus used ships. Is this not the point of the T31e… it’s economical, not just new ones, but resell used ones. (we could keep the expensive weaponry ?)

The more we build then they will be more economical and cheaper for us to own and easier for future clients to buy.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

Janes reports the MoD expects to spend roughly 2 billion on the Type 31 program.

Julian
Guest
Julian

Yes, I’d seen that number. It’s an interesting figure to try and reconcile with the currently announced intention to build 5 ships. If the budget does hold at £250m per vessel that’s £750m left over to account for. As I understand it design costs were included in the bid price (hence Babcock Consortium being able to bid such a big vessel because of design cost savings to to IH heritage) so that leaves stuff like a contingency sum, the cost of running the tender and selection process (which surely isn’t anywhere near the scale of design costs) and possibly some… Read more »

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

I do believe in the future, the T31s will be an active part of the CSG, but acting as goal keepers for the carrier and its support elements. The reason for this is that the T45s need to be operating away from the carriers to improve their radar coverage. The T26s cannot be near the CSG as it will be generating too much noise, so they’ll be on the periphery of the group doing sprints and drifts looking for subs. The T31 in this case could be used as the goal keeper for any leakers, but has the ability to… Read more »

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Who is going to attack us? Well? Has it occurred to you that the carrier would just turn round and come back? Or that we still have scores of fast jets. Plus allies ( well not including neutral weasling Ireland).

Jack
Guest
Jack

I was under the impression a Dutch naval ships would be part of the first operational deployment as well.

Chris J
Guest
Chris J

Great to see this confirmed. As others have asked I do wonder what other commitments have been shelved to generate the CSG, but also completely understand the RNs rationale that they want the first deployment to . As an aside, and it’s probably beyond the realms of possibility, but I think it would send a message if the CSG were able to visit some or all of the British Overseas Territories while en route as part of the first deployment. It wouldn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things, other than demonstrating that we can defend their interests if… Read more »

Oliver Goodwin
Guest
Oliver Goodwin

Surprised an article hasn’t been posted regarding Reaction Engine’s SABRE precooler hitting Mach 5 only a few days ago

Geoffrey Hicking
Guest
Geoffrey Hicking

Any articles elsewhere?

I wanted to invest in that, but they won’t let the public invest yet! Grrr.

Helions
Guest
Helions
Gavin Gordon
Guest
Gavin Gordon

Our public investments (i.e. real, long term) constantly get the legs chopped off them by the professional get rich quick merchants. We’re just colateral. Regrettably, it’s probably best not to let most of the Investment Houses anywhere near our nnovative technology.

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

Those guys are going to revolutionise the way we travel, also as a boaster to get to escape velocity low earth orbit.
Then there is the ex RN engineer who has just won a multi million £ contract for his aluminium batteries. Able to power cars, trucks etc at a fraction of cost of lithium ion batteries and fully recyclable. Aluminium is the most abundant metal on earth. + thinking big the moon is mostly aluminium oxide.
British inventions…again ….that will change the world we live in.

BB85
Guest
BB85

That’s interesting and very positive. From the little I know lithium alloy is a horrible material to dispose of. Of course I’d they do find a way to make clean batteries out of an abundant material cheaply someone will cut the legs out from under it.

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

Shouldn’t really call them batteries as they’re not rechargeable, recyclable yes. They are more like power cells. except you can’t top them up. Brilliant design and easily scalable so could be used from mopeds up to trucks etc.

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

They are rechargeable Davey, I read numerous interview ms with the inventor, they are designed to be easily recharged and recyclable. A car the weight of a Tesla with same weight of batteries as lithium ion Tesla would have a 1500 mile range. Trucks could be fitted out for a 3000 mile range using the trailers subfloor as a aluminium battery cell bank. Genius

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

We should really invest heavily in this battery. Create a whole industry around it, it’s capable of making the UK an industrial powerhouse again and green to boot!

Bloke down the pub
Guest
Bloke down the pub

‘It is understood that the 2021 deployment will see the Carrier Strike Group sail in the Mediterranean Sea, the Gulf and end up in the Pacific.’

Personally, I hope they end up back in Pompey. Ending up in the Pacific doesn’t sound too good.

Gavin Gordon
Guest
Gavin Gordon

If it was good enough for the previous Prince of Wales……

Richard B
Guest
Richard B

😂🤣😂🤣

Rokuth
Guest
Rokuth

It would be interesting if the new PoW does visit the graveyard of the previous PoW. It would a moving homage.

peter french
Guest
peter french

The Fact is we dont have enough ships to give adequate protection to the aircraft Carriers and carry out other dutys and even further to mount a strike group as well as The PO Wales Carrier .
Its utterly Pathetic .
The Defence Budget needs to be raised to at least 3per cent to fund what is desperatly needed by all three sevices
Will it , i doubt if the inept and tunnel vision Politicians will grant it

JoshP
Guest
JoshP

Hi Peter, I think if you look above we do have the hull numbers to protect a carrier strike group. But you’re right to question what it leaves behind – it’ll take perhaps half of the available force to deploy properly.

You aren’t the father of a current naval aviator are you by the way?

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

QQ. Don’t we have some predators that we cant use in British airspace, can we not fly these off QEC to provide some sort of long range overwatch function?

Geoffrey Hicking
Guest
Geoffrey Hicking

Europe always seems to be mentioned as potential escorts. Would be nice for Canada, Japan, Australia, and even potentially India to get a mention (depending on who would be willing to escort the CSG).

Rob
Guest
Rob

I’d bet that the CSG receives French & Italian escorts in the Med, US and Maybe Indian ones in the Gulf and Australian, Malaysian & Singapore escorts in the Pacific. All will want to train with the RN and mean that the group will morph with partners during it’s cruise. It may even be able to operate Italian and Japanese F35B’s too.

Chris J
Guest
Chris J

I might be mistaken but I was under the impression that some of the exercises conducted at the start of the Westlant 19 deployment included some interoperability training with Canadian vessels.

Interoperability with Australia and Japan has been thought of I’m sure, but geographically I’d imagine it’s more difficult to arrange. Maybe as part of the 2021 deployment?

Herodotus
Guest

Looking at the photographs, it would seem that the MOD approves of the 50 shades of grey! Prefer a darker grey myself…aircraft as well…think the Typhoons look insipid. The USAF KC45 is about right!

Frank62
Guest
Frank62

Those pics were taken in full sunlight. Would they not look darker under cloud etc?
Amused at someone criticising the paint scheme!

Herodotus
Guest

Glad you are amused. If you look carefully you will see that different ‘shades of grey have been used’! It wasn’t a criticism…just an observation!

Andy P
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Andy P

As long as its not 50 shades…… 😉

Helions
Guest
Helions
Helions
Guest
Helions
julian1
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julian1

Do you think it will work the other way, ie RAF/FAA F35s deploying to USN amphibious ships. certainly not by need but perhaps for experience?

Helions
Guest
Helions

Hi julian. Yes I do. I’m expecting plenty of cross decking between the UK and U.S. F35’s. The America class in particular for the USN. Our two navies are only ones currently operating with the B’s off our carriers so I expect that other nations – Japan for example – will also take part in once they get operational with their own. I can see a UK squadron deploying with the USS America in the WestPac and SCS and USMC squadrons doing the same in the ETO, Med, or ME on the QE or PoW. It will be an outstanding… Read more »

OldSchool
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OldSchool

Mmm..

Not sure we should send a sub into the SCS. China will likely have SOSUS type arrays there. No point in giving them the chance to detect and acoustically profile our subs with them. IMHO anyway.

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

‘likely’ is good enough for me……

They’ve come on a long way then. The power of the Chinese military is reminiscent of the power of the USSR in the way its used to scare.

geoff
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geoff

Welcome back George-was missing my daily fix!

geoff
Guest
geoff

I thought we had only sent 4 F35’s on this excercise but the one photo above shows 6-all sporting RAF roundels! Photo shop?

Will
Guest
Will

No we had 4 up until 2 days ago when more landed.

Lusty
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Lusty

No photoshop. 6 UK F35’s are now onboard.

farouk
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farouk
BB85
Guest
BB85

I was excited when it said 24 F35B until it followed with, including USMC. I guess it will be 12 each. I was dreaming we might get a 24+24 scenario going to push the ship to its capacity, it would be interesting to know how smoothly it could operate.

Steve
Guest
Steve

I do like the answer to the escort question. A bit of attempting to confuse the issue, but the answer is clear yes it will effect standing committments, and we need allies to help us. It’s a shame we invested to heavily in the carriers but didn’t follow it up with the escort numbers needed, to mean we don’t have to go cap in hand to allies the majority if the time. If we had gone for the 8 t45 and manage to get all the 13 frigates manned and not sold off 2, we would have been in position… Read more »

Mr Bell
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Mr Bell

Steve just for accuracy we sold 3x type 23s to Chile and scrapped our excellent batch 3 type 22s. If only we had those 7 frigates now. The type 22s could easily have been upgraded as a bridge between type 26s coming into service. Waste of precious resources that will take a generation to make right. Why we can’t put ships into a reserve fleet like the Americans do I will never know. The youngest 5-6 type 23s should definitely be retained…oh but wait a minute all their arnaments are being stripped out for the type 26s and type 31s.… Read more »

Paul T
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Paul T

Mr Bell – Yes id agree that with the 3 T23’s gifted to Chile and the 4 T22’s that would have provided a reasonable Escort Fleet of 25 – 26 Ships had the political will and funding allowed.But regarding keeping some of the best T23’s in service there is no real reason why this cant happen apart from again the ongoing Manpower and Funding issues – from the top of my head the only Equipment that can be recycled is the Artisan Radar for use on the T26.The T23 Missile Silo has been modified to use Sea Ceptor,you would have… Read more »

Julian
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Julian

Yes Paul. That does seem to be how it looks re T31. With the 2 x 40mm + 1 x 57mm & Thales radar decisions it doesn’t look as if T31 is going to need any of the fixed guns or the radar. Also, if you look at illustration 4 here (https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/building-hms-glasgow-the-first-type-26-frigate/), the render of the front half being rolled out of the build hall at some point in the future, it shows a good artists impression of the forward silos with a big hole for the Mk41 and then 4 holes forward of that for the Sea Ceptor silos.… Read more »

Ron5
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Ron5

Excellent news.

David
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David

Just a thought – 2x45s and 2x23s will escort the Carrier on her first operational deployment. Will the four escorts be fully armed? Would their respective silos have their full missile load-out? Curious to know as I’m not sure what our weapon stocks would allow. I’ve heard it said before that we don’t have adequate stocks available. Still, it will be a very proud day for the U.K.! Well done! Hopefully once Brexit is settled and life returns to normal, we can properly address the need for additional defence spending. That said, I can’t help but feel a real sense… Read more »

Paul T
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Paul T

David – one can only speculate as to what Weapons Loadouts the Escorts will have, obviously this information wouldn’t and shouldn’t be in the Public domain but for a Peacetime deployment you would expect all options to be covered.

Steve
Guest
Steve

I’m not so sure on the shouldn’t point. Being able to hide details on missile numbers etc has caused this problem, and caused a lot of deaths in iraq/afgan thanks to lack of basic gear. If things were more transparent, then the MOD would be forced to actually buy the kit that the military needs should the worst occur. Can you imagine the outcry in the media if it was disclosed that a capital ship left with only a couple of missiles or that we only had enough body armor for a fraction of the fighting force etc, the outcry… Read more »

David
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David

I absolutely agree Steve. It was reported that one of our Type 23s involved in the 2011 Libya campaign, had only 4 Seawolf embarked. Since they were usually fired in pairs to enhance kill chances, that left only two bullets in the gun so to speak. Granted the threat level was low but to me, that shouldn’t mean you send ships into a conflict zone with the absolute bare minimum needed to defend itself. Can you imagine if the Libyan rebels had let go a barrage of anti ship missiles from shore? Secondly, it was also reported at the time… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

Assuming that the stocks of missiles is adequate, what is the argument for not going to see with all the silo’s full?

Geo
Guest
Geo

Right so lets get moving on the hulls for T31s and genuinely consider if we can get another 2 T26s back on the stocks. Also dont [email protected] about for T45 replacement when its time !!!

The money we waste messing about is incredible. Bet Aussie and Canadian boats come in on budget and time

Steve Taylor
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Steve Taylor

Great news. But I wish they would stop using the word ‘strike’.

whlgrubber
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whlgrubber

fantastic. just wish i was 40 years younger. loved it.

The Big Man
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The Big Man

BBC2 20.00 Sunday
Next three parts of Britain’s Biggest Warship.

Daniele Mandelli
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Daniele Mandelli

Cheers.

TopBoy
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TopBoy

Great news! Would of preferred 24 sovereign F35, but can’t complain. Back in the big boys league now! A formidable strike group indeed

ANDREW JOHN WILDE
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ANDREW JOHN WILDE

When HMS Queen Elizabeth Carrier Strike Group deploys in 2021 it will contain the absolute bare minimum of escorts required to protect the aircraft carrier, the supply ship and the tanker. There has to be a dozen good reasons why the Flag Officer commanding the group is requested to detach one or more escorts, especially in the disaster ridden Far East and a serious mechanical failure on any of the ships could prove very embarrassing. Wouldn’t it be far easier to announce this cruise as a joint venture with the USA and European and Australian/New Zealand warships. As with a… Read more »

geoff
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geoff

I think they have already installed CIWS x 2 on HMS QE Andrew

Will
Guest
Will

Yeah the CIWS systems have been installed but even then it’s not like China are going to say “Hey fuck it let’s risk war with NATO and sink a British aircraft the moment it enters the SCS”. We aren’t at war with China so whilst yes it is dangerous to go into the SCS risking a political incident, we aren’t going to be going into an absolutely lethal area. My only concern would have been the Straight of Hormuz 2-3 months ago but seeing as things have calmed down there shouldn’t be a risk there either. Countries aren’t looking for… Read more »

ANDREW JOHN WILDE
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ANDREW JOHN WILDE

Sooner or later, probably sooner than we could expect, a Chinese battlegroup will transit the English Channel led by an aircraft carrier that will be prepared for war in all aspects. Sending an incomplete Royal Navy carrier task force to the Far East with little support once the political war gets underway is a mistake. I was on HMS Ark Royal when the Russians put a destroyer across the bows just to test the carriers reactions to an emergency when the she was at flying stations. Short of outright war the Chinese will be quite keen to test the abilities… Read more »

Trevor
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Trevor

You are mad. We are not at war with China, why would we go to war with China? Who cares a monkeys if they send 10 carriers through the English channel…. it does not matter a toss. And do you think that a Chinese carrier is just going to suddenly teleport itself from the south china sea to the channel?? They have armed forces because they want to defend themselves, because they have interests. So do we. And currently we are helping Canada and Australia build up their navies and their interests. That is currently giving China something to think… Read more »

ANDREW JOHN WILDE
Guest
ANDREW JOHN WILDE

Not mad Trevor, I obviously have a more unbiased view of the possibilities in the South China Sea regarding Chinese expansionism in that area and across the Indian Ocean as far as Djibouti. My concern , which you have completely missed, is our Government and the Royal Navy Admirals decision to send an under equipped, undermanned task force to the South China Sea or anywhere in the world for that matter. A casual inspection of the Chinese Navy,s building programme reveals that the number of ships being built is intended to rival the size of the United States Navy possibly… Read more »

Trevor
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Trevor

Yes you are. You are talking a load of rabbitong scaremongering cobblers.

ANDREW JOHN WILDE
Guest
ANDREW JOHN WILDE

Is”rabbitong scaremongering cobblers” a little known Chinese dialect?

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

If you’re not blowing smoke up ‘OUR’ side then you must be one of the other lot Andrew. Lots of jingoism from some on here.
Keep fighting the good fight mate.

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

You say you’re concerned that we are sending an under equipped and undermined task force to South China Sea, but underequipped and undermined for what? You’re talking as if we are at war with China or as if war with China is even likely. This jaunt round the SCS is doing two things: showing our commitments to freedom of navigation and also, mainly, to stretch the ships legs. First time in over 10 years that we will have sailed a carrier group. We need to sail it somewhere. Let’s face it, neither QE or PoW will ever face down China… Read more »

ANDREW JOHN WILDE
Guest
ANDREW JOHN WILDE

I understand exactly what you think I am saying but my only real concern about this deployment and the ability of our warships to go to war if necessary is the state of unpreparedness, especially when they are first commissioned. The Type 45,s, the Tide class tankers, HMS Q.E & P.O.W did, and some still are displaying spaces where the original designed armament should be fitted. The new River class Offshore Patrol Boats lost two guns apiece during the redesign which cost a stupendous amount by comparison with the cost of the original Brazilian boats. It is almost as though… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
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Gavin Gordon

When war is declared there is always a state of unpreparedness. That will apply equally to the Chinese, should they consider starting one.

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

A-J-W China will soon join the club able to sail a CBG around the world,as is their right to do so the same as every other Maritime Nation,but the chances of them Navigating the English Channel with one in Peacetime are quite slim,in Wartime even less likely if not impossible.Note that a Chinese Destroyer sailed through this summer as reported on this site.

andy reeves
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andy reeves

should be a good photo opportunity, especially if P.O.W. can be squeezed into it.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

most modern conflicts nowadays seem to begin with a sustained tomahawk attack, i don’ like to see the R.N ships not loaded with a long range stand off missile system I’ve the same concern that the new proposed frigates don’t appear to have A.S.W WEAPONRY MOUNTED. DOES THAT LEAVE THE SHIPS helicopter TO DO THE WEAPON DROPPING? sorry caps lock is stuck again.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

numerous other nations deploy with the smaller group of; carrier, a tanker, a destroyer, and a submarine and a frigate in the mix, the proposed u.k group is pretty luxurious with two PAAM ships

andy
Guest
andy

for anyone who does not know britains biggest warship tonight sunday 27th bbc2 8pm think it,s the f35 trials from westlant 18 episodes one of three i thought they might of called it season 2 i maybe wrong it could be a repeat of the first 3 but i shall watch and see..

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

ditto, good spotting

Julian
Guest
Julian

I saw it last night. It is a new series and well worth watching. Thankfully they didn’t feel the need to re-introduce all the characters and spend most of the program on loads of “get to know the people behind the mission” type of stuff which was a reasonably big part of series 1 as I remember it. Series 2 took much of that groundwork as having already been laid re the people on board and focused a lot on the first F-35B landings and takeoff. I hope with 2 more episodes to go we might get a good chance… Read more »

andy
Guest
andy

i think Chris terrell does a good job,granted there will be things we would like to see that won,t be shown for security reasons,which is understandable but still overall a good enjoyable show,even the wife enjoyed it which is a first

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

GLASGOW IS COMING ON WELLhttps://twitter.com/navylookout/status/1149575449707569152

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Yes I have seen the pictures – the Jigsaw Puzzle that is HMS Glasgow does at last seem to be making substantial progress.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

the more i see of the type 26 dimensions E.T.C the more i think it should have designated as a destroyer, as for a.s.w, where is the anti submarine weapons? is it all left to the helicopter?

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

Honest question here: could torpedoes be fitted into the same canister launchers that we fire Harpoons from? That could be a cheap way of putting more anti submarine weapons on.

Should also install 2 x quad canister launchers onto Type 31s, give them some offensive teeth with anti-ship missiles.

Rob
Guest
Rob

See my response below. We have canister launched sting rays already, but their utility is questionable due to range. ASROC would be a good addition, but that should be in addition to the helo. The Merlin remains the best anti sub weapon the T26 will have. Apart from an Astute nearby of course.

Rob
Guest
Rob

Sting ray torpedoes fired from canisters have a short effective range, far shorter than the heavyweight versions fired from most subs. They really are a desperate weapon and would likely never be used as in conflict the sub would have sunk the ship long before it came in range. At the moment we don’t know if we will be buying ASROC to go in the MK41 VLS fitted to the T26. I hope so or the helos will indeed be the only way of engaging enemy subs. But they are also the best way as they operate away from the… Read more »

IKnowNothing
Guest
IKnowNothing

In the long run, delivering a torpedo at distances away from the ship sounds like a job for a UAV?

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

Going forward, probably.

Especially when operating as a carrier strike group; I think our small number of F35s will be supplemented in time with drones. These could easily fly off towards a possible submarine contact and drop a torpedo in the water.

As part of a single ship however, still likely looking at helicopters for a long time as there would be a lack of room for multiple aircraft and a helicopter is more versatile.

DaveyB
Guest
DaveyB

Yes, but the Merlin/Wildcat won’t be available 24/7. So a ship operating as a singleton, requires another method of taking on a sub. Granted that Stingray has a much shorter range than say a Russian Futlyar. But it would still be useful weapon launched from a very quiet T23 or T26, if within range and especially if the sub had not detected the ship. Clearly the gold plated solution would be an ASROC style of weapon, such as the RUM-139C armed with the Mk54 torpedo. If it could be fitted with the Stingray, even better. But who’s to say the… Read more »

Rfn_Weston
Guest
Rfn_Weston

I’ve just read an article that advises the the Lot 14 price for a F35A has been agreed at $77.9 Million per jet, and the Lot 14 price for a F35B has been agreed at $101.3 Million per jet. I know there is much to say about parts availability/cost sharing and availability of carrier qualified pilots by RAF/RN pilots sharing a pool of common F35B types etc. However if the split was say 96 F35B for primary carrier use, with the RAF getting any spare air frames available, and say another 40ish F35A for dedicated RAF role, that would save… Read more »

Helions
Guest
Helions

The USMC is really starting to rev up the use of their new F35Bs. I’ll bet that RN and RAF pilots are seconded in all of these squadrons and are learning valuable lessons about the full usage envelope of the aircraft from all this testing.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/10/29/marine-corps-tests-the-most-lethal-aviation-capable-amphibious-assault-ship/

Cheers!

Helions
Guest
Helions
Rob
Guest
Rob

Unfortunately any savings would be swallowed up by the defence budget’s black hole rather than being available for other needs. I would have thought the RAF would want at least 3 squadrons of F35A, which assuming 12 air-frames each, means we would need something like 55 in total. That leaves 83 F35Bs if we still order 138 in total. I believe that is enough to have 36 on the QE and 24 on POW if we need to.

Rfn_Weston
Guest
Rfn_Weston

So it is practical, and would create savings but in reality the savings would be applied against the current budgetary gaps instead of creating investment elsewhere… Watch this space for this happening in that case! haha

Rob
Guest
Rob

It might be practical if all 138 were to be in service at the same time. I highly doubt they will. Expect a maximum of about 75 F35Bs, with follow on orders replacing the earliest air-frames on a 1 for 1 basis. The MOD has repeatedly stated that 138 will be ordered “over the life of the programme”. We can hope though!

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

the government should throw down the gauntlet and say now show us how fast you can built them.

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

The problem is the government is doing exactly the opposite: they want these ships to be built at a snail’s pace so that it doesn’t go over any single year’s budget, even if it increases the overall cost of the ships and leaves us with a shortage of ships. All they can say they are balancing the books.

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

There’s also a huge (hopefully soon to be addressed by the general election) amount of kicking the can down the road at the moment due to us having a basically 1 issue parliament.

Rob
Guest
Rob

There is also no point building faster and in greater numbers without an uplift in recruitment and retention. We do not have enough crews for the ships we have. An new Government might go some way to increasing defence spending, but more likely they will have other priorities.

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

Very true and a good point. The whole military needs a vast improvement in recruitment and retention. It’s not enough to just plonk TV adverts out there anymore and be a bit active on Twitter.

Julian
Guest
Julian

Election now called, assuming no hiccup in the Lords, so basically we’re now entering a dead zone for any defence news apart from deployments until a new government is in place? I hope UKDJ can prove me wrong.

In theory there could be interesting things to hear about from manifesto election pledges but I suspect that all the parties will be focusing so hard on messaging around Brexit, NHS and probably policing as a third topic that defence will barely be mentioned for fear of distracting from what the parties see as those few core messages.

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

Probably accurate. We’ll see the usual suspects maybe mention defence a few times, Tobias Elwood et al. but it will largely be a Brexit election, hopefully it will get it all out of their system, we can get it done and focus on other things.

Andy P
Guest
Andy P

For right or wrong, this election is going to be 90% Brexit based I think. Pretty much everyone I speak to is heartfelt sick of it and most of us don’t know much else that’s going on in Westminster at the moment. The Tories have set their stall out on the NHS and policing as well as the pachyderm in the room (natch 😉 ) trying to steal Labour’s thunder so I suppose they’ll be trying to ‘win the NHS back’ so yeah, Brexit and the NHS will be the biggies, in fourth place will be crime and sandwiched inbetween… Read more »

Steve Martin
Guest
Steve Martin

That’s the key, majority. If not we’re in for more of the same for the next 5 years.

Helions
Guest
Helions

JFK CVN 80 getting ready to float out. It’s still my opinion that both JFK and Enterprise X will be at sea and combat ready before the GRF which is currently at sea for trials again with only 3 of her weapons elevators certified operational… Out of 11 I believe…

https://www.defensenews.com/video/2019/10/29/watch-get-an-up-close-look-at-the-navys-next-carrier-before-she-leaves-dry-dock-for-the-first-time/

Cheers

mark davison
Guest
mark davison

exciting times for the UK

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

should make for a fine sight QUEEN ELIZABETH WITH 24 FIGHTERS ON THE DECK