The latest data release from the Ministry of Defence (MOD) indicates a positive shift in the Martlet programme, part of the Future Anti-Surface Guided Weapons project.
Extracted from the MOD’s annual report on major projects for the financial year 22/23-Q4, the details shed light on the progress made.
In the most recent update, the MOD highlighted that “compared to financial year 21/22-Q4, the Delivery Confidence Assessment rating at 22/23-Q4 increased from Amber (IPA rating) to Green (SRO rating).”
The main reasons for this uplift were noted as follows: “The Future Anti-Surface Guided Weapon Light (Martlet) has achieved Initial Operating Capability with the next capability uplift on track for October 2023. The Full Operating Capability for Martlet is expected to deliver in 2025. Role Equipment delivery is continuing to improve and sustainability challenges are being addressed.”
The Martlet project aims to enhance the Wildcat helicopter’s capacity to effectively engage and defeat complex targets in challenging littoral and maritime environments.
However, specific budgetary and cost-related data are currently exempt from disclosure under Section 43 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, due to “commercial interests”.
Has the martlet missile range been extended? Does anybofy know What exactly has happened during these upgrades?
Another 4+km would be useful. Even some naval mounts so can go on ships down to the size of the Rivers.
I don’t think so. This is probably a change in how they conduct the engagement.
All we really know is that the system has been integrated with the Mad Fox drone, maybe depending on size, one of these could be carried on a warship for sneaky beaky work. In foreign coastal areas.
Some good news then.Got to say wildcat looks the part love the camouflage wonder how the Melins would look .😀🇬🇧
Or the merLins spell check.😆
Jeez thought that marlet was about ready for use.
Hi Cj,
It is ready for limited use and was deployed with CSG21 if I remember rightly. It has reach Initial Operating Capability, hence there are some limitations on its use / capability.
Cheers CR
Hi CR, didn’t know that about CSG21 thanks.
Is there a general rule as to what’s considered full/initial operating capability?
The general gist I’ve gathered is that initial OC means that the missile is integrated on a helicopter which is operating from a ship equipped to handle that missile. While full OC means this is the case on all intended ships and helicopters.
Hi Tomartyr, You are indeed correct in what you say although it is possible that the system will be accepted into service with a some capabilities yet to be installed. In short, there is wriggle room. With regards to Martlet I believe there have been some integration challenges, including problems with the rather large 10 round (I think that’s the right number) launcher which causes flight stability issues. The last I read only the 5 round launcher is currently cleared for operations. I think that what is accepted at IOC is likely to be ‘lowered’ somewhat these days given the… Read more »
CR there is no 10 round launcher. The initial design was a 7 round launcher, but that was ditched (I suspect due to clearance to ground issues) for the 5 round launcher which is the dedicated launcher now and in the future. 10 rounds per wing is by having 2 x 5 round launcher.
Martlet recently engaged a Banshee air target from a Wildcat in a trial, which was never one of the aims of the programme…so I suspect the RN have increased the requirements for Martlet to include UAV’s as a target set.
Ah, thanks for the clarification Rudeboy.
I knew there could be 10 rounds per wing… memory playing tricks again!
Adapting the requirements between IOC and FOC was exactly what I was thinking. I wasn’t aware the RN had actually done that, being able to engage UAV’s with a small and relatively inexpensive missile such as Martlet is quite an important upgrade I recon – thanks for info.
Cheers CR
I’ve observed that IOC and FOC varies from programme to programme, and that it behooves one to pay attention to the fine print of each respective programme defining what is IOC and FOC.
Where are you guys getting the information from? Officia secrets act?
A positive story. Where are all the comments?!
Good news doesn’t generate comments 😆👍
Unfortunately true, I do think however noone can deny that the RN is progressing nicely with new tech/developments that over the coming years will keep the RN top tier.
👌
A one size fits all and fitted with instead of fitted for is better than we hear about some higher.profile systems.
More neutral news, the program is still late and not delivered.
That’s not true and needs perspective.
For example, I’ve been in Sri Lanka expecting to sun myself but instead subjected myself to £250 worth(positive) of dentistry (negative) consisting of 6 fillings and one ‘zircon’ crown (positive).
Meanwhile, there have been thunderstorms, heavy torrential rain, and +40°c (negative) so had to hunker down and eat jackfruit curry (+++positive).
Today, I’m preparing fresh chicken for BBQ tomorrow (positive). Wednesday, staying near the airport (+/-).
And on Thursday, I’m bringing my mother in law to the UK (you decide!)
It’s great we have missile integration for the wildcat tempered by no dipping sonar.
Global warming for you keep your factor 40 topped up
Why no Sea Venom? And can we get some 30mm cannons mounted on these Wildcats? Adding Martlet will just mean that politicians will think they’re attack helicopters and deploy them where they shouldn’t be, they need all the mod cons.
In fact, better just cancel them and buy half as many AH-64E’s to make sure we can fight anything.
I might be wrong but I’d assume if they wanted something to throw martlets they’d find a drone rather than let the navy in.
But I definitely see Martlet being used where its small warhead is desirable.
We did have 50 cal HMG Pods fitted to Gulf Mod Lynx. Machine Gun Pods – FN HERSTAL Electrical actuated standard Browning HMG. It was to say the least entertaining when they fired. They didn’t have muzzle breaks, the blast stoved in the equipment access panels and sprung open external access doors under the pilot/ observer positions. Lots of silver speed tape fixed it but it wasn’t ideal…for a while the sight was a chinagraph cross on the windshield until simple holographic sights came in. Further mods fitted a muzzle break that directed the muzzle blast only up and down.… Read more »
Which is why jury rigged mods on cabs are not a great idea….and why it takes time and costs money to integrate things properly.
There is no way that mod with the browning would get signed off with the current duty holder system.
It wasn’t really jury rigged. As it was used issues came to light and mods where put in place to overcome them.
Now…it would have been a none starter due to Duty Holder risk management.
I see – chinagraph in the windshield.. doesn’t sound improvised at all and that silver tape is the ultimate MILSPEC solution!!
Adapt, improvise, overcome!
It did mean that Speed tape was in plentiful supply onboard instead of just being available for battle damage repair. Neptunes Wife, Amphitrite, had a lovely silver scaled mermaids tail for crossing the line!
I was actually making a joke about uparming OPV’s and applying the same logic to the Wildcat XD.
But yeah thanks for confirming that my tongue in cheek suggestions are as daft as I thought they’d be.
👍👍👍😄
With us? Anything.
We can’t because AH-64E’s aren’t and wont be marinised so won’t be seen on ship.
Mate scroll up like 2 lines and read my reply to GB.
Apache can not do the job wildcat is intended for for various reasons. it is not marinised, cannot fly from a frigate and does not like salt water environment long term.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/martlet-achieves-progress-in-operating-capabilities/#comment-741340
Read the thread before commenting. Litterally the comment above yours is me pointing out it’s a joke.
Hence the “sorry” in my next post….
Tbf you hadn’t posted that when I replied. The link threw my post into moderation hell.
The wonders of the internet… in my case tis sometimes hard to see where a thread finishes and the next starts on a phone screen. 🙂
It can fly from a big FF/DD deck. OK its not sea water proof but it will do a job but will need a lot more looking after if at sea.
For info the RN helo starting power systems onboard have an Apache setting along with the capability to start and provide auxilary power all the other helos in UK service.
Apache at Sea – Australian Defence Magazine
Exactly.
Apache was deployed from Ocean, Invincibles and has been tested from QEC. I think they are cleared for Albions and Bays too……but I’m going on foggy memories…..
I agree and definitely worth having to support amphib ops and force protection if you have some at sea but in response to (the apparently tongue in cheek, sorry) comment about being better to replace wildcat/martlet with a few more apaches, you wouldn’t want to do it. While you can probably get an apache onto a decent size ff/dd deck i would assume the sea state limits are somewhat less than a wildcat (which still has the deck harpoon and ability to push down with the rotor etc). Also the inability to usefully get it in the hanger would be… Read more »
So just to firm up on my other comment. AH can operate from all the platform types that you mention. As long as we still have 656 Sqn operating ‘D’ model they will do (not for very much longer unfortunately), they are still operating the small number of marinised ‘D’s that we have. As no ‘E’ models will be marinised they won’t operate from ships. Worth bearing in mind that AH was only really put on board ship because the withdrawal of Harrier meant that there was no ship-borne strike capability. Now I’m not going to argue the if’s, what’s… Read more »
Foggy memory? I resemble that remark!!
‘E’ model will not deploy on ship as it will not be marinised. We still have marinised ‘D’ model operating with 656 Sqn, I think it was 10 that were marinised originally. These platforms will not be going back to Boeing to be converted to ‘E’ model. My understanding is that the processes used to marinise them makes conversion to ‘E’ model difficult and costly. The ‘D’s that have been done were done by Westlands/Leonardos. It’s not a process that Boeing do on Apache.
This is interesting. Assumed 656 would continue its maritime role. I did not know about the E’s inability.
So assume 4 AAC will now support the Field Army in full like 3 AAC?
Regards 4, assume 664 still has the SF support role as and when required and 656 will go all in with 16AA?
HMGs inability to give 849 a proper attack heli is a failure for 3 Cdo.
Does the E version have arctic capability to support 3 Cdo ashore if needed?
Hi mate, 3 Regt (662 & 663) will be aligned to 3 Div and 4 Regt (656 & 664) aligned to GRF/SF. Now this is very loose as they obviously all sit within 1Avn BCT, and is likely a hangover of still operating ‘D’ model. I suspect that once the Corps has fully converted to ‘E’ model the Regt’s will cycle through the roles. ‘E’ model hasn’t yet been cleared for arctic operations but it will be. The issue is that arctic operations almost always seem to go hand in hand with maritime operations which ‘E’ wont be anywhere near.… Read more »
Thanks. Much as we were then, just nothing for 3 Cdo beyond any Northern flank, arctic deployments.
After the reduction from 3 to 2 Sqns, and this “binary” nonsense, what has happened to 653, the OTS Sqn? Are they still around?
Yes mate, 653 moved from Wattisham to MiddleWallop last year. They work alongside 673 in 7 AAC. 673 conduct conversion to type (CTT), essentially teaching how to fly/operate the aircraft and 653 conduct conversion to role (CTR), how to fight the aircraft (tactics, weaponearing etc). Makes sense as they have their own dedicated training pool of aircraft, whereas when they were at Wattisham they were pulling aircraft in from the operational fleet.
I have a close relationship with 653 as I used to run the final test exercise for CTR.
Ah, good info for me. I still had them located at Wattisham, I’d missed that they’d moved.
Yes, that move makes sense.
So Project Belvedere came to nothing, thank God, and Wattisham and MW live on.
Absolutely, thankfully.
Another that many would like to see is that 1 AAC folds and that 652 Sqn (OCU) move to Wallop so that all our flying training comes home. 659 and 661 would then move to Wattisham, 1 to each Regt so that we can return to having 2 full Attack/reconnaissance Regts with 3 flying Sqn’s each, that way we then really start to work on Atk,Recce teaming.
The down side is that we would lose another Regt and the associated Command structure.
Oh God, then down to 2 front line regs….no. Just 3 is already a joke.
I thought 1 AAC went there to group all the Wildcat in one place for logistic reasons, doubt they’d change that now.
Oh for 9 Reg back, teamed with 1, then 3 and 4 restored to 3 Sqns each.🙄
Assume 5s days are numbered too.
You’re correct, placing all the WC in place was to reduce the log and maint burden. Unfortunately it means that platforms are spread across the fleet. 1 Regt never have their full compliment of aircraft, serviceable or not. the problem is that the whole Attack/Recce concept is massively compromised due to the 2 types been located so far apart. Also Yeovilton has really odd airfield operating hours that has proven really restrictive for OCU training and just to support the day to day flying of the other 2 Sqns. Strangely enough 9 Regt still exists but not as we’d want,… Read more »
Thanks SB.
One final question, back in the days, around mid 2000s time frame.
1 AAC in Germany had only 2 Sqns, while 9 at Dishforth had the standard 3, as did 3 and 4.
Always wondered why.
Even 5 then also had 3, Lynx, Gazelle, Fixed.
651 were part of 1 Regt, along with I think 652 and 661 but re-roled to become the AH Fielding Sqn. I think there were a number of reasons why it was 1 Regt that lost a Sqn. Aviation support in the Balkans was drawing down, BFG was slowly beginning to draw down, 16AA Bde was the CofG for UK aviation and with 3, 4 & 9 all being part of the Bde and Op Banner still being a thing so 5 Regt still almost fully active, the only remaining Regt was 1 so they took the hit. There wasn’t… Read more »
That makes sense. Now I know. Thank you.
Change the subject, I’m bored 🥱
I’m not. I’m learning from an expert on all things AAC. So please ignore.
DM, just had confirmed mate that ‘E’ is already cleared for the Arctic.
Good, thank you.
Plastic tarpaulin and a few bungee chords will be enough protection for such a small object
Mate, it is great news. With all the issues and problems that the uk armed forces faces, you still have much to be proud of. I remain envious (as I do of our Aussie cousins across the ditch).
Can we get some brimstone added too, and martlet to apaches too?
Don’t know why the Merlin’s also don’t have some ASM capacity too?
Because that is not their role. They are a top tier ASW capability so why waste money from a budget that is fully committed?
Hi Daniele, I agree it’s not their main role, but if a Merlin is the sole helo on a ship a bit of secondary capabilities could be very useful. The other option is to put an armed UAV onboard too. Monies for extra Merlin’s would be very welcome too.
I agree, it seems insane we have two helicopter models that cannot do much ASW if a Wildcat is embarked on an escort, & cannot do Anti surface if a Merlin is embarked. This nonsense seems unique to the RN/MOD, while most other navies embarked helis do both anti surface & ASW.
All the more so when we have so few escorts & a tiny fleet of embarked helicopters.
The easiest solution is to use APKWS on Merlin. We are buying it for Apache. And Merlin has trialled rocket pods (FN Herstal ones) in trials in the past. APKWS would be easily compatible with Merlins Wescam turret.
Wildcat does ASW via VECTAC.
It cannot dip.
Wildcat could drop buoys as we used to do that for Lynx. The receiving and analysis gear was fitted onboard the ship. Ok it was a special fit for specific operations, but it worked. Doesn’t take much to lob a buoy out of the door.
Merlin not having ASuW…no but it can provide OHT using its radar and EW fit for ship launched weapons or Helo / Aircraft launched weapons.
Thanks GB. Is there any onboard procesing on T31s to receive process sonar bouy data if Wildcat deploys them anyway? It worries me that if there’s no ASW sonar & the ship obviously sometimes operates alone, there may be little or no ability to detect subs in range. If T31s can detect/process Wildcat sonarbouy data(If Wildcats carry them as standard) & if Wildcat happens to be operational & available, carrying ASW torpedos at the time, then they have a chance.
Otherwise it seems a criminally reckless vulnerability.
That is presumably why we are buying 11 sets of AShM – NSM – to do the anti ship piece?
That’s the way I read it. NSM is the keep it rapid and simple solution to giving T31 credible anti ship capability. Integrating a heavyweight AShM onto scarce Merlin or Wildcat would be the hard and expensive way to go,
Its not just the helo. Shipboard Magazines would need altering along with handling gear. New handling equipment to get the store from the mag to the deck. Loading and electronic equipment for the helo. Fitting Skua to a Lynx meant lots of black boxes going inside the cabin reducing space and increasing the dry weight. The trade off was reducing fuel capacity and range unless you fitted the cabin fuel tank which meant you couldn’t fit other kit. Gulf Mod Lynx had all the bells and whistles. M130 Chaff and flare launchers IR Jammers Yellow Veil Jamming Pod HMG Pods… Read more »
Thx for that insight into reality !
Nail on the head mate. I’ve seen so many comments that suggest we just ‘fit this because they have it and its brilliant’. No understanding of the realities that exist when re-roling a cab. The faff we used to have when removing TOW booms to replace with a GPMG ARD or switching the GPMG to an M3M was nothing short of painful. Add to that the time it would take then obviously the change to the flying characteristics. The assumption seems to be that if there are 5 roles for the platform then the platform can do them all at… Read more »
I thought it as much for littoral land targets as ships.
A Merlin can do both roles has capability and size for that. Italians do it.
Sure. But does it need to? Merlin is allocated to tailed T23s in the Ships Flights Sqn, the other escorts use Wildcat. Our ASW T23s war role is to be out in the Atlantic looking for subs, not trading missiles with Russian ships that would be dead as soon as they moved beyond the Norwegian sea, and quite possibly before. The RN, and NATO, do not operate like a high seas fleet facing off against the Russian fleet, it does not work like that. Assets complement each other according to the threat that intell, which is extensive, more than I… Read more »
Don’t forget we have a reasonable Merlin Fleet that isn’t tasked with ASW 😉
😳
Ok but that is another argument. It depends, will global CSG do not need ASM missiles in helicopters, i think it does. If it is only for North Sea i agree the need is a bit less. But F-35 needs to get also anti-ship OTH weapons.
God yes. An ASM on our fast jets has been my NO 1 priority for some time. Ships do not usually attack other ships with ASM.
Fast jets do.
It has them. In Sea Venom and Martlet on escorts furnished by Wildcats. And if needed, CAMM from the escorts.
NSM coming of course, but for me, more of a TLAM capability with the ASM nice to have.
They do – just not in RN use. 😚
Are you referring to Italy, Poland, Japan, Portugal or someone else?
Italy – but if they can the AW101 is capable of ASM whoever uses it.
Italy have had historically the Marte missile family even in AB212 since 80’s.
Now an heavier modern version 100km range is in the NH90 and AW101.
The Apache carries Hellfire, and will also get JAGM.
yes but adding brimstone to it and martlet means we get economies of scale for the manufacture of our missiles (minus the integration costs) and also potentially sell it other apache customers.,and are not paying USA manufacturers instead. You know using same missile family across our helicopter types etc 🙂
🙂👍
Greetings NZ! I think the RANs Seahawk’s have 2*4 Hellfire mounts, something the RN coukd also do. Still shortish range though. Any update on the NZ Navy helos decision yet?
Hi Quentin I could be wrong, but seem to recall the Kiwi Seasprites have provision for the old maverick missile system? Still no word on replacement helos though.
Afternoon Klonkie, I think you’re right and these were then updated to the current Penguins which the RAN’s Seahawk’s also still have I believe. Read the other day (somewhere) that the Philippines two Lynx/Wildcats have Spike NLOS (in think the same as Korea?) so that’s another option too.
Yes Philippines and Korea Wildcat have Spike NLOS and Torpedoes.
Morning Klonkie. I have just received a video of a sub aground in Hout Bay!! No detail available yet but presume it is one of ours. Some of my friends are predictably laughing at the SAN on this news but I try to keep an open mind remembering the RN doing the same with an Astute during trials!!
Will keep you posted-hope you are well.
Howdy Geoff, that is bad news. I hope the crew are all ok! I agree with you,there is nothing particularly funny about this. I do recall the SAN lost a frigate in Feb 82 in a collision, 17 folk were lost.
I would think the crew were OK Klonkie-it was only a few hundred metres offshore and the prop was churning up white water so hopefully they can refloat on the tide. I will update as soon as news available. This info was from an amateur video forwarded to me. Speak later😎
The following from Darren Olivier (African Defence Review) on Twitter:-
Dankie Marius. There is so much malicious false news on social media. I thought something was strange as the water from the prop end was clean !!
cc Klonkie😉
cheers Geoff – a big relief
Mornin Daniele!😎
Morning my friend! 😀
Good news indeed but is this specifically IOC on Wildcat alone? Where are we up to with IOC on its co-sited use with the 30mm DS30 onboard ship? Also, there any merit in, or intention of, deploying it on Merlin?
The DS30/Martlett combo mount was trialled but went no further.
Shame really, I am sure they could have fixed the effluent issues. or we move 30mm on ships to 40mm with 3P, especially on rivers, and swap ds30 to same on carriers for point and maybe CAMM for area defense.
Keep it simple. Make a dedicated martlet mount with its own illuminator and sit it on a hangar roof out of the way where the efflux, as it did on the T23 trial, doesn’t impinge onto a 30mm magazine!
Martlett has just been proven in Air to Air from a Wildcat against a drone like target (Banshee).
Thats it now …Wildcat WAFU pilots will be insufferable. Fighter Pilots dont you know!
👍😆
Interesting experiment. Are we learning from Ukraine more about what Martlet can do? It seems to be a very handy missile. And cheap too I think.
Some welcome good news for a change.
Good news 👍
Would be great to get Martlet onto Army Wildcats to allow taking out of logistics vehicles and drones while leaving anti armour to the Apache’s.
Would be a great move to make the Army Wildcats the same as the RN ones and give them the same weapons and as other users have already qulaified other weapons give the options to use them too. Still be even better to add more units to the combined fleet.
All helps
Apparently the RN has been shooting the martlet in a anti UAV roll {Air to Air} sounds good to me, but what do I know.😎
Any update on the Martlet being attached to the 30mm cannon?
^ Already been commented on ^
Marttlet has the potential to be a massive boon to ships defending against swarm attack and the like it’s ability to be fitted to a 30mm cannon is a real.bonus even marttlet fitted to be B2 rivers could be a game changer plus an ASW and a 76mm gun((like the Thais have done) to theirs, plus two Extra 30mm, and now harpoon makes them warship’s. We need warships with flexibility these ships would be just that. They’re wasted checking out the size of the fishing of Manuel and Pierre’s gear. Having one of those ships in the Falklands is an… Read more »