The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has confirmed that the Type 32 frigate programme remains firmly in its concept phase, with no timetable yet established for design or procurement.
In response to a written question from David Reed MP (Conservative, Exmouth and Exeter East), Maria Eagle, Minister of State for Defence, stated:
“The Type 32 frigate programme is in the concept phase and has not yet reached the level of maturity to allow publication of a specific timetable for design and procurement. This is consistent with a programme of this size and complexity at this early stage in its development.”
Eagle also noted that all future Royal Navy designs, including the Type 32, are subject to decisions arising from the Strategic Defence Review (SDR). She added:
“It would be inappropriate to provide further detail until SDR decisions have been made.”
Last year, Eagle had provided an identical response to a similar query, indicating no significant advancements in the programme since that time.
Speculation and Strategic Considerations
The Type 32 frigate programme was first announced under then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson, yet its role within the Royal Navy’s future fleet remains ambiguous. Early reports suggested that the frigates could either introduce an entirely new design or expand the existing Type 31 fleet.
However, no formal confirmation has been provided, and speculation continues.
In October, Luke Pollard highlighted the importance of the upcoming strategic defence review, led by Lord Robertson, in shaping the future of UK naval capabilities. Pollard remarked: “This is a serious review that recognises not only that the world is a more difficult place… but that the UK armed forces have far too many capability gaps.”
This review, set to report in the first half of 2025, is expected to address key questions about the UK’s naval fleet structure and its ability to deter aggression. Until then, it appears unlikely that the Type 32 frigate programme will move beyond its conceptual stage.
For now, the Type 32s remain a project marked by its potential rather than its progress. While the MOD continues to emphasise the importance of frigates like the Type 26 and Type 31 in shaping the Royal Navy’s future, the specifics of the Type 32 programme remain undefined.
With the strategic defence review pending, it may take several more months before clarity emerges on the timeline and role of these proposed new vessels.
Hard to believe we’re chewing our nails over a few more budget frigates while Italy is now on the way to 6 destroyers, 8 ASW frigates and 9 Gp Frigates
And all equipped with high end-BMD AAW capabilities (cell count varies, mostly 16) as well as HMS and some with VDS.
I’d love to see us expand our destroyer fleet to atleast 12. 9 active and 3 in reserve. the T45 is supposed to be one of, if not the most advanced warship in the world. So why the bloody hell do we only have 6?? Oh its because we want a world class military on a small budget.
Won’t be any expansions till T83 but that design is set to be more expensive than T45 was, will be a trouble to maintain the status quo
in reserve??!!! I can’t See it.
Because we spent most of our cash on two aircraft carriers the RN and wanted but couldn’t really afford.
Italy has two smaller carriers albeit one is an LHD so the carriers are not the full picture. The cost of maintaining our deterrent is huge and is taking up a considerable part of the MOD budget. The Italians do not have this cuckoo in the nest and did not spend Billions on two disastrous wars in the sand.
The nuclear navy is far more to blame for lack of funds than the carriers
@sjb1968
Italy participated both in Iraq and Afghanistan, they definitely spent billions there.
Tbf the RN knew about the propulsion problems from the first trials. They didn’t want to accept them but were forced to by hmg. After that further orders stopped. From memory it cost circa 6 billion for the first six, the next six would have been only 3 billion.
the freedom class LCS could be bought for around £30 million each. add a torpedo system and a towed array, and I think they could be very good ASW vessels.plus, THEY ARE ALREADY BUILT.
Hi Andy, I’m actually mildly obsessed with the Freedom class LCS, I’m a rare fan and I think they have a good role to play as low-end surface combatants (especially after they get NSMs and MK 70 containerized VLS). I’ve eagerly followed a couple of them along inland waterway routes between Lake Huron and Lake Erie, taking pictures along the way, and seen a couple of others in various spots on the Great Lakes. They will carry the Surface Warfare mission package, while the Independence class will carry the MCM mission package. Unfortunately, the ASW module is the one module that was completely and totally dropped though, and the Freedoms won’t be ASW ships.
They’re terrible ASW vessels, they’re noisy for one thing, and they kick up too much wake to deploy a VDS
they must, be of a fast build configuration. the Clyde are a national embarrassment the delivery rate, or la k of it should be reflected in the future allocation of contracts
They build at the rate the customer has requested.
They’re building at a rate that has been asked of them so bit of a stupid way of thinking unless you just want everything built in England.
I don’t see the point of announcing concepts.
Ideally, the MOD should only announce new warship types when they have been ordered.
Have seen the Eur/NATO navies embrace specialized smaller frigates, ASW&AAW, where USN covers both in one destroyer hull.
With the funds rising quickly, would it make sense to make Eur-destroyer, or should we continue to divide the missions into more expensive hulls?
Also to increase reach globally?
Funds aren’t rising at all for us. But every attempt at a cooperative naval program between us and Europe has failed so far so unlikely to happen again.
True. Common spending on same types of arms can still reduce costs with up to 30%, & improve readyness.
Have they failed, or have the political will failed? UK has worked closely with France before.
With the election of Trump, we Europeans should make us independent of US arms & arms production, incl reviving the Sylver VLS and common missiles & supply. The conflicts in Ukraine & Gaza has exposed US production capacity to be shallow. Imagine the US being in a war with China & feeling isolationist when Russia attacks Eur. The reality is that will leave Europe exposed & having to rely on indigenous-produced arms.
Also we are policing the same waters, unless we Danes plan to retake the old Dane law area. 😉
I think the two main issues with any shipbuilding project involving the UK and France are:
1) Very different requirements. France only operates Frigates, where as we operate both Frigate and Destroyers, with very different roles
2) Workshare: The UK wouldn’t tolerate ships built in France, and France wouldn’t tolerate ships built in the UK!
The UK generally opt for more versatile and more capable ships than other European Navies.
It’s a shame really as we have achieved some great things when working together (Concorde, Jaguar, Tornado, Typhoon)
The best solution really is to sort out the long term mess that’s been created in the UK by allowing such large gaps between projects.
Mal
If anything our ships are less versatile and more single role focused
A few points – the Marine Nationale does operate Destroyers, it has for a long time, for mainly political reasons it classifies them as Frigates. Yes while some collaborations with France have been successful, the ones you mention were problematic. Concorde never fulfilled it’s potential with so few being built, plus there was the alleged leaking of plans to the USSR. Jaguar worked out OK but more export sales were stifled because the French Govt pushed the Dassault range of Aircraft as a priority. Tornado was never going to be a reality for France, they ended up with the Mirage 2000, and for Typhoon Ditto with Rafale.
They’re welcome to most of it 😁
Is the French FDI any good? A new style of Frigate that’s AAW, ASW and anti-surface wareface in one ship. Open architecture designed to be built with various blocks plugged together and a containerised speciality swap outs subject to missing.
I see Greece has ordered 3 with options on another. The French will be delivering 7 ships in five years.
funds could be doubled but it will take a decade to see the results from it. the manufacturing capacity of the country is nowhere near high enough.
Mmm a new Eur-Destroyer ? look up NFR-90 and Progect Horizon,these ideas never end well.
and it will be twenty years until we see it in service
Worked on Horizon during the concept stage. Due to disagreements it soon became two separate design’s, one to suit the RN and one to suit the French and Italians. The RN always want things just to suit themselves.
Types 32 and 83 probably stay as concepts.RN will struggle on with the Darings and 31s.Are we thinking 3 or 4 Type 26s end up in Scandinavia and the original 8 drops to 6 for UK?No clear policy continues.Which bits of sea are to be policed?Not enough hulls currently afloat or on order to do everything.Procurement drags on….Meanwhile China churns out escorts,LPD/Hs etc at scary speed.Hope Trump is ready for some S.China Sea nonsense coming up.
The only way we lose Type 83 is if we lose the carriers.
wouldn’t bother me to lose one of the ornaments.
Bluewater capability – gone.
Bin it……tranche 2 T31s…..simple
Agree with some ASW fit and you have a sensible lean manned warship. at least another 5 would be welcome and managable within the numbers the RN have. T45’s only good when they are working which is not very often. More smaller hulls are better than large and few. Yes the UK Armed Forces are well past it with out of date kit and concepts of operation.
ASW kit would make them unaffordable
Exactly, only the Carriers need ASW escorts, everything else needs HULLS to free up 45s and 26s for Carrier escort.
Honestly it looks to me like they get this now, they genuinely get it. Maybe it needed the carriers to be actually THERE?
Eight 26s, 4 in maintenance leaves 2 for each Carrier.
5 Type 31s is a little bare so hopefully the 5 32s really turn up.
Maybe they’re even more GP than the 31s?
Corvettes maybe? 125 million?
No Mk41s, just 24 SeaCeptor and some Bofors and a few torpedoes.
No helicopter.
That’s my bets, guys.
Something half the price of a Type 31 and even more General Purposer. 😁
And 3,500 tons.
By which I mean half whatever Type 31 end up as.
And super exportable.
Hey, maybe a bunch of nations said they like Type 31 but make it smaller and cheaper. So it’s everything 31 is, but smaller and cheaper. Hence no Mk41s, etc.
Also, maybe it’s that, What’s that thing that America gets to say what gets sold to who? Maybe it’s a no-American-tech thing too. So all UK and some EU tech?
It’s not simple because those still cost alot of money
Yes. Find the money for a few more T31s or the stretched MRNP variant that Babcock seems to have fully fleshed out already. There’re plenty of A140 variants showing on their website you got to wonder why they’re finding it so hard to find a fit and progress on this.
Because there are no funds for any new frigates
With future new ships like T83, MRSS there must be money going there. You might need to cut or reallocate money from somewhere else. Make your choices, get best value and get on with it. If its not happening why don’t they just stop talking about and as Geo says, bin it!
TWZ is reporting the USNs new Arleigh Burke destroyer costs are rocketing so we are not the only ones with problems!
The faces that launched zero ships
I apologise to our Japanese friends for using the word zero.
🫶☮️
If I were a betting man,
Just order five, or even three more Type 31s. Easy to crew, well-armed, and it’ll sustain Babcock.
Only well armed if they can afford mk41 and the missiles to go in it
LBC report that Admiral Sir Ben Key is likely to step down this Summer as he has confided in colleagues that he “Can’t fix the navy” given current resource constraints. With the SDR out shortly this suggests no good news for the RN in the pipeline..
That is worrying and suggests more pain to come.
Navy Lookout article refuted that pretty comprehensively.
I know who I trust more.
those faces had over a dozen yards to launch them from
It’s consistent with the fact that T32 was nothing but a stream of consciousness from Johnson as he bluffed his way around a microphone.
The strategic defence review may well identify a need for escort vessels for merchant vessels in several choke points around the world. Lots of fairly well armed but not necessarily very fast vessels for defence of convoys will be required.
Something along the lines of the OPVs with short range anti aircraft missiles and a decent number of smaller caliber guns perhaps 2 by 40mm and two by 20mm might be more appropriate. For defence against mass drone attacks. Technology exists to allow these to be lean manned with multiple redundant systems, perhaps under 20 core crew. Carrying light weight drones capable of anti submarine warfare a group of three or four vessels could very effectively defend a convoy of merchant vessels.
Squadron of Black Swan sloops?
A sound option along as Paul P says the Black Swan Sloops once talked about. Bobby on the beat really cna make a difference. But the idiots in Gov (today and recent past) have no concept of what is really needed. Pity it will no happen. Cuts are coming and it will kill the UK Armed Services once highly held esteem!
You can google the original Black Swan proposal in HMG publications, although its clearly marked as ‘archived’. It anticipates the drones which have come to pass. The concept ships in the doc are 90-95m, about 3000 tons, 20-40 crew and look similar to some of the Kongsberg Vanguard designs – mission deck, crane, hangar, helo or UAV. I’m sure BAE could come up with a batch 3 River with 40mm and Ceptors. Depending on the price it could be a route to affording a meaningful increase in RN fleet (+10) and global presence.
It’s hardly going to be capable of deploying to a contested combat zone, but as. A trade escort could be passable, but I doubt such a design would be implemented unless war broke out
Point taken re contested combat zone. Recent experience would suggest that T31 is at the minimum end of the spec needed for a Red Sea convoy escort. I assume Robertson &Co in the SDR will have to make choices. They might have already told Healey that the defence budget ought to be 3% lf GDP, but my guess is that the reply instruction is to compromise on the current level of about 2.3% and the SDR will be trimmed accordingly. So more frigates / escorts will not be funded; but I think there will be funding for MCMV (mother)ships; replacements for the Hunts, Sandowns, and the Proteus and Sterling Castle trials. What I don’t understand is whether a modified T31 ( perhaps even the ones in build) could perform this role as well or cheaper than a dedicated new type like Kongsberg Vanguard.
It would be good to get an update on the Bancock SAAB Anglo-Swede corvette/frigate if that’s still going? It might be adaptable for the T32?
*Babcock or BMT?
Drones could only really provide detection for ASW and their speed would be limited, helicopters would still be required to engage
Proteus?
Yep, I was just thinking of something half the weight and half the price of a 31.
Bofors, 3P, SeaCeptor and no American tech for export sales. Reuse as much as you can from 31 and just a handful of crew.
For escorting ships past Yemen.
Which has shown that hulls are what is needed, not high flying gold plated ASW Frigates or AAW Destroyers.
You sit between the tanker and the shore and splat drones and Iranian ASMs.
That actually sounds quite fun.
T32 wasn’t going to happen under the Tories and will not happen under Labour.
Realistically looking at timelines it would fall into the remit of the next Govt presuming this one serves a full term.
Sunday Times from a few days ago had this as front page news, as part of woeful UK protection against missile attack, saying the recommendation from the MOD to government is 12 type 83s (as the Type 45 should have been), the article covers lack of escorts etc and lays out the case to make it a national priority to fund the Defence over the next decade plus. The only way we can rely on the right strategy is not by a government that just applies it, but by media and public pressure to respond, governing by ‘events’ rather than planning for it. Despite that, can’t see the Type 32 surging as a new concept frigate, at best another 3 hulls for a batch 2 of T31, that could happen only because it allows the government to appear to take the SDSR seriously with ‘new frigates’ but it’s cheap GP ones that don’t actually move the dial in capability, for that you need big commitment on Type 83 and increase to Type26, both I suspect ain’t happening.
What do you want? Type 32.
What does it look like? No idea.
How many do you want? 5
Why 5?
Fingers on Boris’s left hand.
What else do you want?
MRSS.
What does it look like?
No idea.
How many do you want?
Erm… not really sure.
Can’t see Type 32 ever making of the drawing board ✍
Can’t even see it getting as far as the drawing board!
32… Instead of 31… Boris defence screw-up
Maybe he was thinking about his afternoon Tea at 3pm for 2…that day?
I can’t see the T32 coming to pass, there isn’t any space in the naval budget. As things stand, the delivery dates for T26 and T31 have been slowed down deliberately, as there is simply not the budget to build two escort classes at the same time. At the current build rate, we will be lucky to have 6 of the 8 T26s in service by 2035, at which point we will already be late starting the T83 programme.
On the current budget, I can’t see escort numbers rising beyond 19, and that a decade away.
A capable minor warship could add some useful mass to the fleet. The Khareef class that BAE built for Oman a decade ago show that a well-armed corvette, with a complement of 100 or less, can add some punch to the fleet. In my view, we should be looking at a corvette class to replace the River 1. That would be feasible within the current budget.
Roles – overseas patrol in low threat areas, so Caribbean Station, Gibraltar/West Africa, Pacific Islands, possibly Falklands guardship.
UK EEZ patrol at the sharper end, North, North-West and North-East, leaving the River 2s to patrol west and east coasts and Channel.
More t31,s would make more sense and cheaper too . I fear though that the SDR will scrap the programme altogether . No more money will be forthcoming and the SDR will mearely state how the existing pie is to be cut
Just extend the amount of type 31s. Everything is there. Maybe beef them up a bit. And my answer to everything ”Get Tomahawks on them” . Ha ha.
With a far left government not interested in defence better forget about It, the reality more cuts in the future.
The costs of a large navy is extremely expensive. UK needs a huge navy to keep its colonies under control – – but there is no more colonies, other than Falklands. The Empire has ended. Having a tradition navy is obsolete, example : Ukraine has no navy and has defeated the Russian navy. Rule Britannia! Britannia rules the waves!… Has been powerful when it lasted, now British India has surpassed UK economy. UK probably will break up when Ireland, Scotland exits, this century.
Mmm. An out of date perspective I think. My own perspective is that post Brexit, post Covid, (almost) post Ukraine that the post empire wheel has truely turned. We do still need a substantial modern navy. One look at a map confirms the relevance of our strategic location as guardian of the Arctic > N. Atlantic passage and the Atlantic bridge to N. America which connects the West. A new world order is forming and democracies are on the defensive against authoritarian regimes. We are a global trading nation and most of our food and imports arrive by sea; we need to make a substantial contribution to keeping sea lanes open. India needs to be treated as competitor or a partner on a selective commercial basis. Ditto China. The Scottish urge for independence has fizzled out and common sense has returned. Case for a united Ireland is culturally stronger but Ireland herself needs to heal the wounds of independence and become a much larger and stronger economy before it is in a position to assimilate N.Ireland. In response to the external pressures of the big trading blocks of the US and China and the military threat from Russia, the UK and the EU will become closer in defence, economy and values; when all is said and done and notwithstanding Henry VIII England is part of Christendom.