The Defence Secretary has appeared to confirm that Rosyth will be building more vessels that previously planned, with the Type 32 Frigate going into built at the yard after the Type 31 Frigate build finishes.

Ben Wallace, the Defence Secretary, recently stated that Rosyth would be building Tytpe 32 Frigates in addition to Type 31 Frigates.

“We are committed to building the Type 26 in the United Kingdom; it is under construction on the Clyde. In Rosyth, work is ongoing to build the facility needed to build the Type 31s and the subsequent Type 32s. He also knows that I recently recategorised the future Fleet Solid Support ship as a warship. I intend to make sure that, if not entirely, there is a considerable degree of UK build in that process, subject to tender. I have to be cautious about the contract, because the competition is to begin soon—very soon.”

What is the Type 32 Frigate?

According to the recently released ‘Defencer Command Paper’, the Type 32 frigates will be designed to protect territorial waters, to provide persistent presence overseas and to support Littoral Response Groups.

The first mention of a new Type 32 frigate came in the Prime Minister’s 19 November statement. He said: “We are going to develop the next generation of warships, including multi-role research vessels and Type 32 frigates.”

The Defence Command Paper, titled ‘Defence in a Competitive Age’, describes the planned programme:

“Type 32 frigates, designed to protect territorial waters, provide persistent presence overseas and support our Littoral Response Groups.”

The Type 32 was not mentioned in the Government’s 2017 shipbuilding strategy, which overhauled the way the MoD procures warships for the Royal Navy. Nor was it mentioned in the review of the strategy published in November 2019. Early speculation suggests they could be ‘batch II’ Type 31s, but not necessarily based on the Type 31 design, which explains why Rosyth will be building them following on from the Type 31s being built at the yard.

In November 2020, the Ministry of Defence stated that the concept phase for the vessel had not yet been launched but added that the ship is currently envisioned as a “platform for autonomous systems”, used in roles such as anti-submarine warfare and mine countermeasures.

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Ian M.
Ian M.
5 months ago

Photo caption is for Type 31?

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Ian M.

No,thats the BMT Venator – 110 Design that wasn’t selected.

rec
rec
5 months ago

This would confirm theory that this will be a T31 derivative. Personally, I would like to see investment in Cammell Laird, and a frigate factory there, for as second line of T26s (say 4) and SSK building (say 5) but realistically that wont happen. So even with X number of T32s there isn’t going to be enough work for more than 2 shipyards. It also looks like we are reverting to the C1 C2 and C3 concept. With C1 = T26, C2 = T31, C3 = T32, numbers wise I would guess the best we could get is 8XT26, 5… Read more »

RobW
RobW
5 months ago
Reply to  rec

The IDSR stated the intention to increase to 24 frigates and destroyers. We will get:

6 x T45
8 x T26
5 x T31
5 x T32

Yes the T32 will almost certainly be a derivative of the T31 design, Ben Wallace said as much the other day. I assume it will have a bigger mission bay for autonomous systems, with a rearranged engine and funnel configuration to accommodate this. Cost will be higher than the T31 as a result.

Chris
Chris
5 months ago
Reply to  RobW

I think you are right. The T32 will end up costing more than the T31 with greater utilisation of unmanned systems while hopefully keeping a similar defensive fit to the T31.

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  Chris

Hopefully more than 6 Sea Ceptor missiles! 18 on T31 & T32 should be the minimum!

Chris
Chris
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

When has only 6 ever being mentioned?

Danny
Danny
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

the Type 31 will have 12 sea ceptor missles to start with. not 6

AlexS
AlexS
5 months ago
Reply to  RobW

It is too early to tell.

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  AlexS

It is but there are some real Experts on here.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

I think you would need to be a grand master Tarot reader to know what the T32 will actually turn out like ( apart from it being a ship with all the required ship bits).

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  RobW

Yeap, seems the 32 will be basically a 31 with a different weapons / container fit – makes sense because churning out 10 hulls builds on the economy of scale. We could eventually end up with: Singapore – an OPV, a LSS, a T31 & T32 Gulf – an OPV, a LSS, a T31 & T32 Caribbean / Falklands – an OPV, a LSS, a T31 & T32 3 x Batch 1 OPVs in UK waters with 2x OPVs, 2x T31 & 2x T32 in UK for refit / training. Then all the T26, all the T45, the QEs and… Read more »

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Hello Rob, Where is this information mate ? I’m keen to see the specs….. Daily Star has it from the Horses mouth that they will be mini Death Stars.

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

Mini Death Stars would be good! Honestly, I know you say ‘fantasy fleet’ but all the ships I’ve listed, other than the LSS (possibly LHD too) have already been announced. I was just saying how they could be deployed forward in squadrons. It’s not that much of a fantasy really.

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

But fantasy fleets are just so normal on here what with all the experts. I think you might just be fantasising a little bit with your type 32 description, then again, who knows ? What’s a squadron nowadays anyway ? is it mostly USMC ?

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

I get your point Capt P but we do know that the T32 is going to built in Rosyth straight after the T31 and that it is described as a littoral support frigate so it is going to probably be the T31 hull with something like the Danish Absalon Class weapons fit? I meant squadron as in the naval term, a squadron of ships, like in the Far East Squadron – could easily be an OPV, a T31 & a T32 and, IF(!), they go for smaller littoral strike amphibious ships one of those too with a RM detachment embarked.

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

So Rosyth could still build a Ship designed to launch Drones via the latest announced Drone launching Emals or C&T system that I personally have offered as the new system mentioned in the last 6 months ? Bugger me backwards Master Mate, and Blistering Barnacles …. We might just be cleverer than Mr copy and paste and the teacher.

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

We just may be Capnin…

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

Remember though mate they will be the height of two football pitches, as wide as a double decker bus, as high as a 6 cars stacked up and able to track and shoot down a golf ball sized target moving at the speed of 27 porsches, at a distance of 845 football fields……phew!

Airborne
Airborne
5 months ago
Reply to  Airborne

as long long long as…. bloody hell im going to stop posting and wait till ive had a drink….may make less mistakes then!

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  rec

Type 32 specs still not known, the pic above is just for effect/argument/discussion. Fantasy Fleet post’s are similar.

expat
expat
5 months ago

Hmmm. Telling someone you are definitely buying from them ensures you’ll pay well over the sticker price. Surely other yards should be allowed to propose alternatives and bid.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  expat

Not being in any way cynical at all but…..what does promises of ordered ships buy………Votes baby Votes. What do promises of ordered ships cost…..the air in a minister lungs and the time it take him to expel it as he speaks.

Its not like there is an election or anything……😆😆

Andy P
Andy P
5 months ago
Reply to  expat

We don’t know what has already been discussed between the government and Babcock. I’m not saying that Babcock or A.N. Other company wouldn’t try and wring out as much cash as they can but as Rosyth are a good way to putting their ‘factory’ together I’d suggest that other yards would struggle to match for cost. Nothings been announced but maybe (dare to dream….) the T31 model of agreeing the cost and equipment fit up front will happen on what appears to be a ‘batch 2’. We’ll all need to wait for further announcements before either touching ourselves or getting… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
5 months ago

There seems to me to be one additional political + point, over and above the natural wish to preserve the Union, by reserving these significant surface combattant numbers for the Clyde & Forth. There will, like as not, be a change of Government ideology at Westminster long before half of them can come to fruition. If so, what’s the chance of Labour cancelling some with all the aggro that would mean for them most especially north of the border? In fact, it appears that both major UK parties are fairly well locked in to this drumbeat over the medium term,… Read more »

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Ha… Pass me that Poe again mate……. “Labour, in Government”? Rather pile the Bodies high than…. oh hang on, !!!!! lol…..

Rob
Rob
5 months ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Labour are in favour of the union too (witness the QE Class), I doubt they will cancel T32.

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

lol, that last bloke wanted Putin in Parliament….. not sure who this latest chap wants…..

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
5 months ago
Reply to  Rob

Agree Rob. Sure that both parties are sincere on the ambition, particularly with international relations having landed on the snakes once again. But we know about jam today. West’s definitely in economic shit street, even more than we’re used to, and of course defence usually takes the hit first
What a double wammy gift we’ve seen of late for the Polituro’s long term plans. Lucky for some?
So, on balance, I still feel the current UK division of labour on surface combatant build is another factor that would influence the usual dynamic.

Challenger
Challenger
5 months ago

Confirmation of what everyone suspected.

Essentially a second batch of T31’s, hopefully with a larger main-gun for NGS as well as a bigger mission bay for stuff like autonomous mine-hunters and special forces if as stated it’s designed to support littoral ops.

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Challenger

Nope, just a figment of your imagination and “everyone” else’s too at the moment. None on here or most other places, know anything about them. Sorry.

Challenger
Challenger
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

So in your considered opinion do you think the fact they have chosen Babcock/Rosyth to build them right off the back of T31 which they have a lot of confidence in and are touting for export points to a complete different design?

captain p wash
captain p wash
5 months ago
Reply to  Challenger

Well, at this particular point in time, I really don’t know anything more than you do. Sorry but that’s just the truth at the moment mate.

Challenger
Challenger
5 months ago
Reply to  captain p wash

It is of course all speculation but we can still look at the balance of probability and make some educated guesses. It’d make little sense to engage Rosyth in building a completely different design when they’ve just churned out 5 T31’s and the push is very much on to win export orders.

Andy P
Andy P
5 months ago
Reply to  Challenger

I see it the same way Challenger, while nothing is set in stone yet, if they’re being touted as littoral vessels/mother ships (even for MCMV) AND they’re being built in Rosyth then the basic T31 hull should cover it. Could be wrong of course, it happens, I’ll not lose any sleep over it but aye, I’m willing to bet a good shiny Scottish groat that these will be a ‘fancy pants’ T31.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
5 months ago
Reply to  Andy P

I would tend to agree, at educated guess level.

That being said, direction of travel in thinking is pretty clear.

But as the good Captain says other than it being a Babcock build nothing has really been announced.

The one thing I am pretty certain is that #1 T31 will need to be delivered in budget for T32 to get main gate build.

Rogbob
Rogbob
5 months ago
Reply to  Challenger

With the RN investing in the 57mm for the T31 and the 5” being v.expensive then I’d bet on the former. That being anti small boats is more the kind of littoral that is being considered than lobbing things 10s of ks inland. Evolving the T31 hull and systems and thus building expertise in the full range of research, design and build seems sensible. I’d like to see the T32s as MCM frigates in the way T45 are AAW ones and T26 ASW ones, using mission bays and access doors to deploy the USV and UUVs but in comparison to… Read more »

DJ
DJ
5 months ago
Reply to  Rogbob

As to the 57mm, it is fine for small boats, however rather poor if you are trying to support ground troops in the littoral space (there are UK ground troops already based in Brunei in the midst of the great SE Asia island chains). While it (57mm) can defend against AShM, it lacks the ability to take out the launch platforms, which can be sea or ground based. The bigger you are the more dangerous the littoral space becomes. If you look at what the locals in these area’s tend to use – as soon as you go much over… Read more »

Rogbob
Rogbob
5 months ago
Reply to  DJ

??? what are you envisaging this lone T31 doing? When did a RN frigate last start sinking boats or shelling the land on its own? Supporting ground troops will be transporting them there, launching their boats/helos and recovering them whilst providing a secure base with comms and medical facs. Why do we care what the locals have on their ships? The counter to them is Wildcat and its missiles. 30mm rounds punch through buildings and armoured vehicles, a 57mm has over twice the KE and explosive power – that isnt going to be an issue dealing with small stuff. My… Read more »

Glass Half Full
Glass Half Full
5 months ago

Worth pointing out that a ship design contract might be separated from a build contract, with different companies for each. Go back to the early candidates for T31 and it included a couple of companies that were not aligned with a ship builder, e.g. BMT Venator 110 and Stellar Spartan. Then we had the Meko A-200 and a sketchy alignment with H&W and Ferguson. BAES Leander with CL. Then we also had Babcock’s Arrowhead 120 as the earlier design, before ending up with the IH based T31 we will have. Clearly the timescale and budget for T31 dictated a proven,… Read more »

John
John
5 months ago

Any mentions of names yet?

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  John

Nothing official as of yet – but plenty of ideas on this site 🤔

Something different
Something different
5 months ago

My money is on these being up scaled mine hunting, autonomous platform hosting, off shore patrol vessels. I cannot really envisage them even having a missile fit.

Ron
Ron
5 months ago

I have a question that I can find no real detains on, who paid for the frigate factory in Rosyth to be built, Babcock or Government. The reason for my question is simple, if Babcock then the T32 will very much be along the lines of Absalon however if the frigate factory it could mean a third party using the facilities alongside Babcock. I for one would prefer to see the T32 and I suppose the possiblity of a standard hull for several roles such as MCM Mothership, LSS, Multi Role Support/Combat Ship, Multi Role Ocean Survey ship and dare… Read more »

SD67
SD67
5 months ago

We are committed to building the Type 26 in the United Kingdom”

Translation : We’ll move build South the minute the SNP get stroppy 😉